Fang Zei

Mike O said:

Fang Zei said:

jimbotron235 said:

Top of my list is Star Trek VI:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tuchd/tuchd0188.jpg

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tuchd/tuchd0999.jpg

Ditto.

For some reason, this is always the first thing that springs to mind whenever I think of the worst blu-ray transfers. Maybe it's because I'm just barely old enough to remember when my Mom took me to see it in the theater. She actually surprised me with a theater-used ST6 poster this past Christmas.

It's the blu-ray equivalent of the GOUT for me.

The source master is apparently a 1080i they IVTC'd to 24p, as evidenced by the stair-stepping. My guess is that while they probably had a decent-looking 1080p of the director's version (the fresh transfer done in 2004 for the collector's dvd to replace the old non-anamorphic transfer), this 1080i from whenever/wherever was the best looking transfer of the theatrical cut they had lying around. So rather than spend the money on a fresh transfer they simply gave us this.

Voyage Home arguably looks the worst, like someone applied the watercolor filter and turned it up to eleven.

 

I keep hoping that for the 50th anniversary, Paramount will finally do some proper transfers for the Star Trek films. But my hopes are not high.

Fang Zei said:

GoldenEye is another truly atrocious set of screenshots. It's baffling how it looks that bad when we've seen it look much better in hd broadcasts and RMW's show reel. The home video department at MGM/Fox/Sony must've somehow thought nuking it with the watercolor filter was a good idea.

BTTF, Jurassic Park and theatrical LOTR fall into the category of middling but acceptable for me. Could've looked better, could've looked way worse.

 I wish there was a way to stop this DNR fetish. Goldeneye and Predator were the worst. I just got the first Predator Blu-ray, kept my old two-disc set and called it a day.

Is the new BTTF set going to have new transfers? I thought that as opposed to the DVD versions, the LOTR BDs came right off of the DIs? Haven't looked at my JP BD yet. The Vudu version I've seen a bit of actually looks OK. I'm waiting on the the Mega Middlle Earth collection with all six movies before I get LOTR, hopefully with the BOTFA EE due out next moth, the boxed set can't be far behind.

 70% of FotR theatrical went through digital grading but it was still finished photochemically. TTT and RotK were straight DIs.

The new BttF set will likely recycle the existing transfers, but we'll see.

Wrath of Khan was the only Trek title to get the 4K treatment, so they'll have to redo all of them in order to sell them yet again on UHD blu. There won't be a better time than next year, but again, we'll see.

You can now, yes, of course.

Tron '82 made its blu-Ray debut day and date with Legacy.

Dare I get my hopes up for a surprise OOT blu-Ray next Spring to coincide with TFA?

In response to the original question, I just think an upscaled GOUT - though it would have color and contrast closer to the original look - would have nowhere near the actual detail of the 2011 blu-Ray. Even excessively DNR'd blu-rays would still have more detail than an upscaled GOUT. For that reason alone, it's not surprising that the people in charge haven't repackaged it in any form with the 2011 transfers.

They're not interested in consolation prizes. I agree with the theory that Disney is simply driving up demand for a restoration by withholding the unaltered versions.

At least, that's what I hope is going on.

It was the same thing when Tron Legacy came out.

They intentionally let the dvd of the original go out of print and even requested that it be taken off the shelves several months prior to the sequel's release. Some people speculated that Disney was afraid people would see the original and get turned off by it enough to skip seeing the sequel in theaters.

Remember how TPM was originally scheduled for a Friday but Lucasfilm pushed it up two days so that they could get the fans out of the way ahead of the weekend?

I remember going to a 5/6 o'clock screening that wednesday and it definitely wasn't sold out. The line waiting for the 7/8 o'clock as I was leaving was a different story, though.

For TFA, I would want to see the very first screening, if only because I hate waiting and spoilers. That's what I did for Age of Ultron. 7 o'clock the Thursday night before and it wasn't even sold out, maybe half full. I feel like the whole early Thursday night thing still isn't very well known, even though it's basically become standard practice for the big blockbusters now. People hear Friday, they think Friday.

doubleofive said:

The director would prefer 2D, but also shot in IMAX, so he wants you to see it in IMAX, but the only IMAX showings are in 3D, so you can't do it right.

So its entirely up to you.

I was looking for a concise way to sum it up, but that'll do nicely!

All I'll add is that there could, theoretically, be 2D Imax screenings.

Yes, the person who sent in the scoop to makingstarwars said he heard that from two different theater managers.

towne32 said:

joefavs said:

 it's been years since I actually needed to get tickets for an opening more than a few hours in advance (I think the last time was The Dark Knight back in '08), but I don't want to take any chances with this one. 

Not a movie, but a couple years ago I pre-ordered tickets to the Doctor Who 50th which showed in a few theaters. Sold out in a couple of minutes. Other than that, not sure that I ever did.

I think I signed up for an alert from Fandango about TFA, but the site does nothing to confirm that the request was sent, so who knows. If I don't see it on opening night, but later that weekend, that's fine. I'll just live without internet for a couple days.

Well, that's the real trick isn't it?

The studios don't make it any easier, either. As far back as Return of the King in '03 I can remember spoiler-laden tv spots running pretty much the moment a movie had started playing in theaters. I remember that particular example because my roommate at the time went to go see RotK with his brother at the midnight premiere and I caught a commercial with Aragorn charging the orcs at the gates of Mordor and, IIRC, Frodo's "now at the end of all things" line to Sam.

It's been a noticeable trend with these big event movies ever since.

In response to the OP, a recent article at makingstarwars said that tickets will likely go on sale sometime between late September and mid October.

May I ask what the "special super-preview at select cities" in the thread title is referring to?

There actually aren't all that many terrible transfers of movies that haven't since been rectified or aren't currently in the process of being rectified, not that I can think of anyway.

Even the Trek films will probably get a do over next year I'm guessing, between the 50th anniversary and the industry's big 4k push.

GoldenEye is another truly atrocious set of screenshots. It's baffling how it looks that bad when we've seen it look much better in hd broadcasts and RMW's show reel. The home video department at MGM/Fox/Sony must've somehow thought nuking it with the watercolor filter was a good idea.

BTTF, Jurassic Park and theatrical LOTR fall into the category of middling but acceptable for me. Could've looked better, could've looked way worse.

team_negative1 said:

After seeing how poor the Reliance samples are closeup, it's a good thing that they won't announce or acknowledge anything about another restoration.

The grain reduction comparison shows how extreme they went. The colors still aren't a good match either. This is for both Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back.

Thanks to the anonymous sources for confirmation.

Team Negative1

Like I've said before in this thread and elsewhere, I'm convinced the Reliance 4k job was done as a basis for the 3D conversion. Hence it's the SE again.

Not that I really care, but it would be nice if they could at least get the "official" version of the movie looking right, as that article on savestarwars.com points out.

Mike Verta's comparison seems to indicate they will once again not get it looking right. Even if it corrects the flaws of the Lowry transfer, it apparently introduces new problems of its own. The pendulum swings too far in the other direction.

The only saving grace of this, I suppose, is that the new SE can have its own distinct look and we can still possibly also get a restoration of the OOT looking exactly as it should.

I hate it when I get my Schwartz twisted.

jimbotron235 said:

Top of my list is Star Trek VI:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tuchd/tuchd0188.jpg

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tuchd/tuchd0999.jpg

Ditto.

For some reason, this is always the first thing that springs to mind whenever I think of the worst blu-ray transfers. Maybe it's because I'm just barely old enough to remember when my Mom took me to see it in the theater. She actually surprised me with a theater-used ST6 poster this past Christmas.

It's the blu-ray equivalent of the GOUT for me.

The source master is apparently a 1080i they IVTC'd to 24p, as evidenced by the stair-stepping. My guess is that while they probably had a decent-looking 1080p of the director's version (the fresh transfer done in 2004 for the collector's dvd to replace the old non-anamorphic transfer), this 1080i from whenever/wherever was the best looking transfer of the theatrical cut they had lying around. So rather than spend the money on a fresh transfer they simply gave us this.

Voyage Home arguably looks the worst, like someone applied the watercolor filter and turned it up to eleven.

Variety is to be commended for using trailer clips just to get that truly original feel instead of simply using the blu-Rays, even if they only did it for clearance convenience.

It also - intentionally or not - goes along with the "retro" feel Abrams and company are using in the marketing, revealing the character names in the style of the topps trading cards and what not.

Robino said:

team_negative1 said:

Still working on Reels 5, and 6 for the cleanup on Empire. Here is a shot of where the new work drive, where it is being assembled.

Lots of other good things on there.

======================

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/team-negative1-star-wars-1977-35mm-theatrical-version-release-details-and-updates/post/785697/#TopicPost785697

Team Negative1

Question - it appears you scanned 4K.

Are your scans 4K scope or did you scan 2K and once de squeezed you get 4K?

I just finished my 35mm scanner and I get 4K scope scans, other question, do you de squeeze the scope frame and then scale down to 1080 or do you scale down to 1080 and then de squeeze ? just curious about your workflow. 

I'm also curious how this works, as 2k for scope is only 1828:1556.

Judging by all the screenshotcomparison links, I'm assuming they were working from an actual 4k scan, as everything seems very finely resolved even at 1920:817 res.

But I'd also like to know what comes first, the scaledown or the desqueeze.

Yeah, I really wouldn't be surprised if the reason we haven't heard anything isn't because of some agreement with GL but simply the need for two mega-corporations to work things out.

Lucasfilm doesn't want to blab or even give a speculative answer to our inquiries until there's "something to report."

crissrudd4554 said:

Yeah I could definitely agree to the idea of hesitation out of loyalty to Lucas. Without him Disney wouldn't be banking in on this franchise to begin with would they?? Same with Fox if they are afraid to release the originals. You have to wonder though. Is it part of a bigger plan?? I think it's fair to say that both camps realize that releasing the original versions would be the best move if they wish to cash in more on the original movies. However, could it be part of something that they think will pay off more?? The fact they're releasing the same damn Blurays again within 5 years since its initial release shows they're willing to cash in on anything. So they probably know they want something that EVERYONE will buy including those who already own the current BluRays. So simply releasing the original versions wouldn't be enough. What else do we get?? '97 SE? '11 SE? A new SE??? And of course there's still the matter of Fox and Disney reaching a deal over video releases. Just an interesting theory.

I'd argue that the inclusion of the original versions alone would be more than enough of a selling point, but I'd gladly buy the ultimate set a la Blade Runner with the '97 version thrown in as well.

I suspect there will be a new SE released at some point, as that's what RMW's 4k "restoration" most likely was/is. Even with only four months to go, I still wouldn't be surprised to hear about the big theater chains like AMC doing all day 3D marathons on December 17th and having it turn out to be the debut of the new SE.

Should a hypothetical "ultimate" bd set ever happen, complete with the new SE, I doubt they'd bother including the '11 or '04 versions. It would be highly redundant in the face of the new version which would probably replicate most of those changes anyway. Rumor is that the most notorious '97 change, Greedo shooting first, has actually been switched back to its original 1977 form in the 4k SE, giving it a kind of "final cut" status.

If anything, the ticking clock of Fox completely losing their rights to 5/6 of the saga just five years from now should actually be motivation for them to make whatever deals they need to with Disney and just get a restored OOT (and maybe the OPT as well?) on the shelves so they can cash in on it.

That's why I'm actually inclined to believe Devin Faraci when he says that Fox doesn't feel comfortable releasing the original versions while George is still alive.

doubleofive said:

This is just a money grab by Fox, it is not representative of Disney's plans.

The press release did mention Disney. Maybe that's only because they own Lucasfilm now?

You have to wonder whether Fox needed Disney's permission at all since the disc content itself hasn't changed, only the packaging and the fact they're being made available individually this time.

GlastoEls said:

Since the sale, has anyone affiliated with LFL mentioned the OOT at all in any capacity?

It's pretty odd not to have gotten any official word on the subject in the almost three years since the sale.

What could possibly make it that sensitive of a subject?

Is it still just "too soon" and they don't want to upset GL, despite it not being his company anymore?

Is the Fox situation a roadblock and Disney wants to wait until 2020?

Or is it simply a matter of timing and they don't want to put it out until it makes the most sense business-wise?

This is of course assuming they're planning on eventually putting it out at all, which isn't even a given.

They're are just too many variables, and until I at least hear a rumor that gets picked up by one of the more reputable websites I'm done speculating.

No new footage at D23 this weekend, according to this article:

http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-7-photos/

I similarly stopped spending money on anything Lucasfilm-related years ago because of the OOT's continued absence.

You're lucky you can have it both ways, moviefreakedmind.

Wazzles said:

Fang Zei said:

It's possible, however unlikely, that they could be planning something to coincide with Ep7's eventual release on blu-ray in the Spring. I'm not holding my breath, though.

 I think what's more likely is that the TFA box art will mimic these. Why elese would they release single discs? No one really wants to own just one Star Wars film.

imperialscum said:

This time they will put LD scans on a Blu-Ray instead of DVD!

At this point, I would buy that just to show demand for the OOT. And hey, it might look DVD quality at that resolution!

Honestly though, I don't give a shit about what they happen to release at this point. I am content with the state of current fan preservations, namely Team -1's work. 

 The one thing giving me hope for a sooner-than-later OOT announcement, prior to yesterday, was the fact that they hadn't been released individually yet. Look at what happened with the GOUT. They needed a selling point aside from them being available individually, so they threw in the existing laserdisc transfers of the unaltereds as a "bonus." Sure, that sucked big time, but LFL got away with it because a lot of people were still watching dvds on their 4:3 CRT's and didn't know better.

I figured if they wanted to do the same thing with blu-Ray they'd have to do something similar, except this time they'd have to actually remaster the unaltereds.

I was wrong.

It's worth noting that the covers for ANH and Empire echo those of the 1995 Faces/THX/OneLastTime release.

They used the Emperor instead of Yoda for RotJ. They probably thought Yoda was a better fit for AotC because his lightsaber fight with Dooku is generally considered to be the standout scene of that movie.

Yeah I'd also like to get an exact quote, as this is the first I've heard of her saying this (even cryptically).

Was it in regards to someone asking about the original versions?

It's possible, however unlikely, that they could be planning something to coincide with Ep7's eventual release on blu-ray in the Spring. I'm not holding my breath, though.

As has been touched on already in this thread, there is the 40th Anniversary in 2017, which is already coinciding with the release of a Star Wars movie directed by someone who's slammed the SE in the past.

I still think it's downright bizarre that the digital versions have inconsistent logos, regardless of who technically owns what.

Anyway, raced over here after reading the steelbook story on Slashfilm. Very dissapointed to see that the films are finally being released individually for reasons having nothing to do with what I've been wanting for years now.

The milking of decade-old transfers continues.

The only good news here, I guess, is that the complete nine-disc saga set will still be out there for people who want those three discs of extras. I still can't be bothered to pay good money just for some deleted scenes, though.

In the meantime, there's still this mysterious 4k remaster by Reliance MediaWorks that we've known about for over a year now, a.k.a. the reason this thread exists. The rumor this past April from someone who'd allegedly seen an in-progress version is that it's a newer SE, but one where Han shoots first again. Could this maybe be the "Final Cut" equivalent for the OT?

Obviously none of this matters in the long run if it doesn't bring the unaltereds closer to the proper treatment.

There are so many things to consider regarding if/when it'll actually happen, from the aforementioned 2020 expiration date for Fox's ownership of Empire/Jedi/PT, to the upcoming UHD blu-ray format, to the 40th anniversary coinciding with Ep8's release.

I'd like to think JJ Abrams and especially Rian Johnson have bothered Disney about getting the unaltereds restored. I'd hate to believe that rumor about Fox not wanting the unaltereds re-released until after Lucas passes on.