Hamill asked George back in ‘76 why he was starting the story in the middle. The reply was something to the effect of “it’s the most commercial section of the movie(s).”
Everyone points to Blade Runner as the best way to do multiple versions on disc, but ironically for the past couple years the Final Cut has been the only one in print.
There is a box set in the U.K. with the Final Cut on UHD and the other cuts on a regular Blu-ray. Not exactly the same but it’s something I guess and at least it’s region free.
I actually went ahead and bought the blu-ray a full year before I even had a player and a month before the format war with hddvd had even formally been declared over.
At the time, I remember thinking “all cuts of the film in hd? This is the last time I’ll ever need to buy a physical copy of this movie.”
To be honest, that’s still how I feel. I won’t be upgrading to 4k anytime soon, but even when that inevitably happens, I won’t be rebuying Blade Runner just to watch the Final Cut at its full res.
The modern equivalent of the GOUT would be putting out a 4k UHD final version that includes a 1080p HD unaltered cut. Blade Runner had that excuse in 2017 since the grand collection had been released a decade earlier and only the final cut was finished in 4k. Star Wars doesn’t have that excuse in 2019 since the grand collection is yet to happen. It should be as up-to-date and future-proofed as possible.
Only the PT they grew up with isn’t quite the same one they’ve got now.
They probably have no idea.
All the more reason to include the theatrical prequels as well. It would be a fair, balanced, and straightforward approach if they simply included the original and final versions of I-VI.
But what if I want to watch a pan and scan version of ROTJ with Hayden but without Vader’s noooooooo. That’s the version I grew up with!
IMO, it’s the ‘97 version that takes priority over the ‘04 version/master (and the 2011 blu-ray edit thereof). To me the Blade Runner treatment for each of the OT films would be:
disc 1: final version
disc 2: ‘97 version
disc 3: original unaltered
The final version (from RMW’s 4k master) could very well end up being identical to the 2011 version anyway content-wise, which would make that version redundant. Then again, George could’ve done some additional tinkering before selling the company in 2012, and there’s nothing stopping Kathleen Kennedy from inviting him back to make his final changes now.
That leaves the 2004, which only really holds significance because it brought the OT slightly more in line with the PT (TPM Jabba in ANH, Ian as Emperor hologram in ESB, Hayden as ghost Anakin). I guess it also holds significance for being the version released on dvd, kinda like how the international version of Blade Runner was the one most widely available on home video back in the 80’s.
If they really wanted to, they could branch the ‘04 and ‘11 versions onto the ‘97 disc, but everything would need to conform to the same color timing. It all just seems more trouble than it’s worth, honestly.
Obviously the unaltered versions take priority over all of the other non-final versions, but if they were to go the extra mile and include the ‘97 but not the ‘04 or ‘11 I wouldn’t miss those versions one bit.
Only the PT they grew up with isn’t quite the same one they’ve got now.
They probably have no idea.
All the more reason to include the theatrical prequels as well. It would be a fair, balanced, and straightforward approach if they simply included the original and final versions of I-VI.
I can’t imagine why. That sounds more like the pro-SE only crowd updating their arguments against the OOT to me. I’m sure they thought a release would happen in the wake of George’s departure.
Pretty much anyone with any sense thought it would happen in the wake of George’s departure, but since when has this whole situation made any sense?
Lucasfilm still kept the older, no-longer-canon books and comics in print under the “legends” banner, so the pro-SE argument of the unaltereds going against the official versions doesn’t work to begin with.
I’ve always wondered how much truth there is to this claim that Lucas course-corrected the PT following the TPM backlash.
Did he actually say that in an interview or is it just pure speculation by the fans?
Sure, the fact that Jar Jar gets sidelined after being so front and center in the first movie makes a strong case for it, but how do we know that wasn’t the plan from the beginning?
Solo feels the least connected to the other films, and I really appreciate that.
Rogue One’s overly fan-servicey aspects, combined with the introduction of too many new characters we’re given too little time to actually care about, are why I’m the weirdo who ranks it at the bottom of the LFL-under-Disney movies. Someday though, if they ever release the deleted scenes, I’d love to see what a longer cut could do to improve things. In the meantime, anyone want to recommend a fan edit?
Then there’s TFA. As much as I would’ve wanted something truly different from both ANH and TPM, I’m okay for the most part with how it turned out. It’s trying just a little too hard to please the fans in certain places, but for me its strengths far outweigh its shortcomings.
I loved TLJ. That’s all I’ll say about it.
To the surprise of no-one… 😉
‘This is the panel you’ve been waiting for! Don’t miss the Star Wars: Episode IX panel with director @jjabrams at #StarWarsCelebration Chicago! Want Friday tickets? Use, LYTE, our official ticket exchange website’
https://twitter.com/SW_Celebration/status/1105913994018258945
I imagine we’ll be getting a title for Episode IX during this - and maybe some sort of teaser trailer.
What would be truly impressive is if they managed to keep a lid on the title until it appears at the end of the trailer.
We can’t exactly blame them for only having heard of the true originals through word of mouth when George actively buried those versions for so many years.
This is exactly why it’s so important that Disney restores and includes them, even if it’s only a one-time “limited edition” type release. 4k UHD is as good as it’s going to get for the vast majority of people for the foreseeable future. Remastering these films for the first time since 1993 shouldn’t be too much to ask.
I don’t see how there’s any way they don’t get it out there on bd and UHD by the end of the year while it’s still the movie’s 30th anniversary.
True Lies turns 25 this year and they seem to have a perfect hd master all ready to go, pending Cameron’s approval.
Seriously, how long do we wait before drafting a new petition that simply opens with “Dear Walt Disney Company”?
Do you think they’ll take a page from Endgame’s marketing and wait until the trailer drops (presumably at Celebration) to even tell us what the title is?
I am watching the Oscars right now as I am typing in this post, and I just noticed Adam Driver had a shaved face in the audience. He had just got finished with Episode IX not long before.
Was he not clean-shaven last month?
It’s interesting to note that Episode IX castmates Adam Driver and Richard E. Grant have both been nominated in the supporting actor category (for BlacKkKlansman and Can You Ever Forgive Me?, respectively) at multiple different award shows this year.
ALITA: BATTLE ANGEL (2019)
Fantastic experience up on a full sized IMAX screen. Fun film with some of the best fight scenes I’ve seen in a long time. I hope they’re able to do a sequel.
Saw it the same way (last Friday night at Air & Space DC) and you’ve described my feelings on it perfectly.
Plus they made more than enough from TFA, RO, and TLJ that they could afford to take the hit with Solo.
To paraphrase a tv series Rian Johnson directed several episodes of, “Disney ain’t in the Star Wars business, they’re in the money business.”
It hasn’t been officially announced yet, but “sources” are claiming Disney has Finn, Poe, Lando, and Qi’ra shows all in the works for the streaming service.
I agree with you oojason, I see that as very likely.
I know for some time Lucas acted like theatrical reels of the the old films didn’t exist, and now that we have things like the 4K projects is a pretty big comfort. Because of that, what I’m most curious about now is a possible upscaling process for AOTC and ROTS. It would be a bit of a shame if those movies couldn’t stand up to the quality of the rest of the films.
How exactly would that work? Would it be necessary to redo any vfx?
Are there any examples of 2K films that have been upscaled to 4K? And if there are, how do they look?
Many UHD releases are from 2k masters, and there’s at least one (Resident Evil: Afterlife) that was shot in 1080p just like AotC and RotS. Avatar was also shot in 1080p.
2k masters can still look great on UHD. Mad Max: Fury Road is a good example. On the other end of the spectrum, the UHD of Oblivion must have had a botched upconversion process. By all accounts, the regular 1080p blu actually resolves more fine detail than the UHD.
What is the latest reasoning on why they haven’t been released already? Waiting on the purchase of Fox to be finalized? Waiting until after IX?
It’s probably several things.
The pending buyout of 20th Century Fox would seem to be the biggest factor. They own ANH in perpetuity and the rights to Empire, Jedi, and the prequels don’t revert to Lucasfilm until next year. Until all the i’s are dotted and the t’s crossed, Disney wouldn’t want to be involved with a release they’d need to share profits on with another studio.
4k is the other big reason. Even if Disney had the distribution rights, they’d probably have waited until this year at the earliest to do any new physical release so they can debut I-VI on UHD in grand fashion. If you count from when the blu-ray/hddvd format war ended, then we’re as far into 4k this year as we were with blu-ray when the 2011 release happened. Even if there’s no unaltered restoration in the works*, I fully expect we’ll hear some official word by the end of the year on when the OT will hit the format.
Lucasfilm doesn’t even have a new Star Wars movie in the pipeline for a 2020 release. That could still change, but Avatar 2 (a Fox release) will almost definitely be hitting theaters in December of 2020. Disney could change things up and put out a new Star Wars movie in November, but it seems likely 2020 will be Lucasfilm’s hiatus year in terms of new theatrical releases and they’ll simply focus on The Mandalorian and this Cassian Andor show, and maybe the saga UHD set could hit later in the year as well. Of course, I could be totally wrong and they’re just waiting until Celebration for the big reveal of a concept teaser for either the Obi-Wan movie or the first part of Rian’s trilogy.
*Like I’ve said before, I really don’t think they’ll bother releasing a UHD that doesn’t at the very least include the unaltered OT.
Oddly enough, I very clearly remember the first broadcast of the ANH SE that I saw here in the States was a local one.
IIRC, it was on channel 20 here in DC (WDCA), which by that point was part of UPN (it was actually one of only four Paramount stations in the entire country pre-‘95 and therefore the home of TNG and DS9 in this neck of the woods (and Babylon 5 before it moved to TNT for its final season)).
Anyway, I remember realizing somehow that this wasn’t a network broadcast and I found that really weird for a Star Wars movie.
Anthony Daniels tweeted this out earlier today,
https://twitter.com/adaniels3po/status/1092555522765713408?s=21
which means we’re definitely getting some big piece of news this week, even if it’s not the title.
Revenge Of The Droids 😉
I did find it appropriate that they had Tony tweet that out.
Hasn’t it long been assumed that the saga would end with the droids giving their “journal” to the Whills?
I hope it isn’t balance of the force then we’d have a last Jedi situation all over again…
You mean in terms of more than one Star Wars movie having the word “Force” in the title?
It would at least give the ST titles some symmetry, and it would be a fitting title for the final installment of the saga since bringing balance to the force is what they were talking about all the way back (chronologically) in Episode I.
I’d actually be perfectly fine with that title.
Since Episode I and Episode IV both have titles that don’t necessarily have anything to do with the Star Wars universe and the ST didn’t go that route (Jedi and The Force are both very SW-specific), I was kinda hoping they’d invert that pattern and go with something similar for IX.
But like I said, I’d be perfectly fine with Balance of the Force.
Anthony Daniels tweeted this out earlier today,
https://twitter.com/adaniels3po/status/1092555522765713408?s=21
which means we’re definitely getting some big piece of news this week, even if it’s not the title.
I don’t know if someone has mentioned this previously (my apologies if it has), but if LFL released the OT Special Edition it won’t likely be a true 4k format. The CGI effects were no doubt rendered at 2K, so even if you upscale them to 4K - the quality of the video will be equal to that of 2K (half of the prequels were shot at 2K) and you could end up with a 4K/2K hybrid. It shouldn’t be impossible to overcome this - but it certainly wouldn’t be a simple process. From a financial point of view it would make practical sense to do the Theatrical Editions of of the OT - even there, I expect it’d be still be somewhat an involved process. It really comes down to how far they’re willing to go and for what price.
New movies being made today are only just starting to have their vfx rendered in 4k. Many films that were finished in 4k still had their effects shots rendered in 2k. Like I was saying a page or two back, if the final rendered 2k frames from ‘96 / early ‘97 still exist in their pure digital form somewhere and are still readable (as they still were for TPM in 2011) then they would at least look better than scanning the filmed-out negative back in.
But even if they had to resort to scanning it back in (and as I said in my post I’m pretty sure that’s what they did for the 2004 transfer), that’s only a small percentage of the SE. The rest is still 35mm negative straight from the camera and would benefit in every way from a 4k scan.
I’m fairly sure a 4K release of the OT (or at the very least a 4K version of the first film which apparently was already completely in 2012 but we’ve yet to see what it will be used for) shouldn’t be an issue. The Prequels is another story. IIRC AOTC and ROTS were filmed and completed at 2K so yes those films would need upscaling.
A significant percentage of movies released on 4k UHD were only finished in 2k. As long as they don’t botch the upscaling, the prequels should look just fine.
Didn’t they recomposited the effects because the film stock used originally for the final composites was degrading rapidly ? And was already in such a bad shape that it was deemed unusable at that time ?
Because there are definitely no other sources that can be used for the original effects… 😒
Exactly!
As I said in the second or third edit of my way too long post above, there are other film elements aside from just the o-neg that could be utilized in an official restoration of the unaltered version.
Also from my overlong post, it wouldn’t really be the 100% unaltered versions if we started talking about re-compositing the opticals. You’re certainly not alone there.
For the 2011 master of TPM they were at least able to go back to the digital filmout tapes so that they could transfer the movie (well, almost all of it) straight from the digital source.
Even if they’re not going to re-render the ‘97 cg shots from scratch, I wonder if at the very least the finished frames still exist in a readable format like they did for TPM. We’re only talking two and a half years earlier. For the ‘04 master it looks like those shots were simply scanned back in off the negative since you can still see filmic anomalies like weave even after Lowry finished their (rushed) cleanup.
By the way, this is exactly why I’d want the ‘97 versions preserved. The o-neg is already conformed to that exact edit of the movie anyway.
The best approach would be the same as they did for TNG, with re-composited effects.
For TNG they improved the light passes a bit, and I guess they corrected small model defects.But it looks seamless and much better than 2000’s CGI.
For Star Wars it would look great and still have the 1977 feel.
They already did exactly that for the ‘97 SE. They scanned in the original individual elements (which I guess would’ve all been 8-perf horizontal VistaVision negatives?) and recomposited them digitally at 2k res, filming back out to a new piece of 4-perf cinemascope neg and intercut with the rest of the movie just like the cg shots.
As with the cg shots, if the finished 2k files are still readable like they were with TPM then they should at the very least be transferred if they’re not going to spend the money to re-re-comp the elements with, say, an 8k scan / 4k finish.
I don’t even know what the state of those individual film elements would be after an additional two decades of storage, but I still remember that post from several years ago where someone in-the-know said that Lucasfilm was archiving everything, so maybe they’ve been scanned yet again.
But yeah, as LordZerome pointed out, this is still SE talk. If we really wanted an unaltered OT that was 110% unaltered then we shouldn’t be talking about re-comps at all.
Speaking of which, if I remember Zombie’s article on the matter correctly, certain stretches of the conformed 35mm negative had faded badly by the time it was dug up in the mid-90’s to be restored for the SE. Zombie mentioned that there were four different film stocks that made up the conformed o-neg and that one of these stocks just wasn’t designed to last. I want to say it was the stock used for composites, which means even if they saved those shots in storage there’s no guarantee they’d be salvageable even with modern digital restoration tools. So, a secondary source like an IP or the separation masters might be necessary to get those shots for an official OOT restoration.
I think it is likely Lucas had the negative and all the original elements scanned and restored. So, I don’t think there’s a version persé. There are masters from which the original and SE versions could be created, although I believe at the time he was mostly focussed on the planned 3D releases of the OT.
The planned 3D versions were most likely why these new 4k masters were created, especially since we now have confirmation from someone involved that they were finished all the way back in 2012. George didn’t sell LFL to Disney until the end of October, so maybe he had the new scan done as a good starting point for the post-conversion before Disney scrapped it. It would explain why they’ve sat unused for almost seven years.
Like the anonymous former RMW employee said, it’s unlikely their work on the OT could be surpassed even seven years later.
4k 16-bit is about as good as it gets.