Easterhay

Apologies, what do you mean "like" five years old? Do you mean you were younger when you saw the films?

Are you an "oldie" like me? :)

I don't know whether I have improved memory skills - my wife marvels at the stuff I can remember - or if it's simply a question of being able to recall the stuff that's affected me most but I can recount memories not just of seeing the original films when they first came out but also the '97 re-releases and the releases of the prequels. However, I can't say the same about the amount of times I've seen them on video, DVD or Blu-ray because that is time without number.

Ahh, "fatigues" - which we used to pronounce "fatty-gews".

I never did complete my ROTJ sticker book but I did get the official "making of" book at the foyer in that cinema in Southport. I still have it, in fact, and it's a marvellous read.

Yes, my son picked up on Boba securing himself a date with the dancer when we watched the film at the weekend.

The cue I meant happens a little later, after the deal has been struck. I think it's right after Threepio says "He agrees!" There's nothing cut visually, it's just an audio cut and it's a tiny one at that.

For those of us who are old enough to remember the halcyon days of the original releases of the OT, what genuine memories still stick out after all these years?

Because of the profound effect these films had on me, I still have very stark recollections of certain moments in all of the films. I'll show you mine if you show me yours!

Star Wars. I saw this with my dad in 1977. I actually thought he was taking me to see my grandmother who lived in Bootle (which, if you know anything about my part of the world, is a pretty grim place). I was not looking forward to it at all. As we stepped out of the door, my mum told me that we weren't really going to see my gran. She then launched into a very passable rendition of the Star Wars theme - which everyone knew at the time. I almost wet my pants. Of the film itself, I only remember the cantina scene (that music and all those exotic aliens). Also, at one point, a long-haired man (well, it was the seventies) walked up the aisle and passed our seat. I thought it was Chewbacca going for a pee between scenes! The next day, in school, it turned out that everyone had seen the film over the weekend. Everyone knew the names of the lead characters except me. Luke? Han? I imagine it was all just too much for my five year old brain to take in.

The Empire Strikes Back. As a birthday treat for one of my school mates, his dad took a bunch of us to The Odeon in Liverpool to see the movie. I remember looking at the poster in the foyer and wondering who all the characters were - both Boba Fett and Yoda caught my eye. The only memory of the film was the duel between Luke and Vader. I found Luke to be a bit of a drip, really, and desperately wanted Vader to beat him. Leaving the cinema, my mates berated me nd said it was my fault that Luke got his hand chopped off.

Return Of The Jedi. I saw this with my dad at a cinema in Southport. He'd bought me a Luke Skywalker figure before we went in - the one with the cloak and the green lightsabre. Oddly, the only moment that still lives with me is when Luke has gone to see Vader and we see an AT-AT walking through the forest. "An AT-AT?" exclaimed the kid behind me. On leaving the cinema, my mum was waiting for us. She asked us about the film and my dad said "Well, there won't be any more. Dark Vader dies at the end." His comment didn't go down too well with the queue of people waiting outside to see the next showing.

Well there are clearly aspects of Star Wars on which we'll have to agree to disagree, Adywan. I do agree - and have said this elsewhere - that something The Clone Wars has that the PT doesn't is a definite chemistry between the characters and you really do get a feel for the friendship between Anakin and Obi-wan.

To deny that something exists, though, when it clearly does, is outlandish and I'll maintain that stance - you'll be telling me the earth is flat, next.

I am aware of the title of the site, though, and I am au fait with its intent. That doesn't mean that I should accept some of the garbage that I read here, though, and if I don't agree with something then it's my right to say it. I'm sure you can appreciate that, Adywan. I think I have more of a problem with the objectionable attitude of some (I don't need to name names, do I?) as opposed to the point they're trying to make.

Well, let's hope that the next Star Wars films aren't just that!

All good points, though. I've not burdened my son with any prejudices about the films (basically because I don't have any) but I certainly made sure he was aware of them because I firmly believe that the Star Wars saga belongs to that tradition of good stories well told (plus, he's too young for Lord of The Rings!) and there are lessons to be learned from the story.

And yes, I am a Brit :) and my son is seven years old.

I can't see how money was ever the motivator.  George was hardly on the bones of his arse when he came around to making the prequels.  And he personally financed all of the films himself so he'd have to have an awful lot of confidence to think he was going to make a ton of money off them. 

I don't know if Titanic really justifies Cameron as a visionary director.  I really don't see any boundaries being pushed in that film.  Avatar, yes; Terminator 2, most definitely.

You want to get that seen to.

Of course it compares; it's practically the same line.

And I'll keep painting with the same brush as long as folk like you continue to carry on so.

Wow, how spooky, my self-penned "episode seven" is also called The Creeping Fear. I know it was an April's Fool's title for episode three but nevertheless, it's a bit worrying (for you) that for a moment you were on the same wavelength as me.

But the SE's predated the prequels so I don't see how that world would exist.

Lucas handed over to Kersh because directing the first film gave him a nervous breakdown.  He thought he could take a back seat and that would relieve the stress.  As it was he was more hands on with episodes five and six than he intended.

I think he directed the prequels because it was simply easier than when he first tackled the films.  Advances in CGI made it possible for him to "realise his vision" with much greater ease than in the seventies and eighties - remember, it was seeing Jurassic Park that made Lucas say "now is the time".

I'm sure that ego probably played a part, too.  It's his story, his universe, so why wouldn't he want complete and total control of how the films turned out?

That's not at all funny. I'm bald as a coot :)

No, I take your post in the well-meaning way in which you intended. I've become increasingly bothered by the unmitigated hatred from some quarters for the prequels. Am I seeing something others aren't? And I've even questioned myself as to whether I'm simply an apologist, desperately trying to see chicken sh*t as chicken salad. Hand on heart, though, I love the prequels (and I'm old enough to have seen the original films at the age at which I believe I was supposed to see them - ergo I saw Star Wars (as it was then) in 1977 at the age of six. And I love The Clone Wars, too. Does it help that I have a seven year old son with whom I watch the films and the cartoons? Well it certainly doesn't hurt.

What bothers me, though, is the assertion by some young Turks that I'm not a "true" fan because I don't live in denial of the prequels or that I'm not hugely bothered that I can't see the original films in their original format on Blu-ray - although I see the argument for their release and I think they should be released, if only for archival reasons.

I'll try and relax and lay off the black coffee. But if I encounter anyone here who is clearly spoiling for a fight, don't be surprised if I put my dukes up.

Whatever the opinion on whether the changes were done well or are in any way valid, I would have liked to have heard George Lucas's comments on the alterations made in the Blu-ray versions of the films. Why make the change in the DVD of Revenge Of The Sith and then go back to the theatrical version for the Blu-ray, for instance?

I did have hope once when the scream was removed from The Empire Strikes Back when Luke makes his leap of faith. But then they left in the changes to Vader's dialogue after the duel and the very jarring insertion of Vader arriving at his star destroyer.

Well this is it, isn't it? You can present such a well-reasoned argument time and again but if folk aren't prepared to ever change their mind on something, what's the point?

"The prequels are rubbish."

"No they're not, because..."

"Yes they are, because..."

ad nauseum.

thecolorsblend said:

NeverarGreat said:

Luke and Han's preliminary goals in ANH are there because they are torn between the world that they know and the world of adventure. The first step of Luke's journey is to reject the goals imposed by his uncle and achieve his destiny, whereas Han's journey is in doing something that isn't for money. He decides not to return to Jabba, and instead joins the Rebellion. When the goals imposed by Owen become irrelevant, Luke makes a firm decision to become a Jedi. When Han decides to return and help the rebellion, we don't hear a firm decision. Naturally he will have second thoughts in ESB.

I'm not trying to be hard on the prequels because I think that the Original Trilogy is perfect in every way. Han probably could have paid back Jabba and still helped the rebellion, just as Anakin could have probably freed his mother and still trained to be a Jedi.

Anakin became a Jedi Knight based on a lie. The council wouldn't have done it if they knew he was married. The marriage ceremony and clone army scenes at the end of episode 2 send a single message: failure. It isn't like the scene at the end of ESB where our heroes know that they've made mistakes, and must work to right them. It is that Anakin and the entire senate and Jedi order are already defeated, and even they know it. You might as well end the trilogy there, as it is obvious what will happen.

Parts of my comments were meant more in jest than anything. Still, you raise valid points. With the acknowledgement that freeing the slaves wasn't one of Anakin's big goals, I agree with what you say. But that's the exact point. Episode II is called Attack of the Clones. The Republic is the aggressor in that conflict. Sure, the Separatists are led by greedy, conniving puppets but is every single one of those star systems equally evil? I doubt it. All most of 'em probably want is a fair shot and they don't see that happening under the Republic so they want out. As you say, the militarization of the Republic proves the game of democracy and freedom is over.

The Jedi have sold out their ideals to a system built on greed and perpetuated by the same. Qui-Gon (noble, competent, a strong sense of what's right) is what the Jedi should be; Yoda (deceitful, obstinate, dishonest) is what they are. Ensconced in their literal ivory tower, the Jedi were complicit in their own destruction. If the Jedi had given Anakin a single iota of validation and enfranchisement, there's every reason to think things could have turned out differently.

And understand, I'm not arguing the prequels were perfect. Far from it. But the stuff above is a big part of why I like them in general.

On a personal note, I'm defending the prequels (this aspect anyway) on a forum mostly filled with people I respect but who don't like them. So in deference to most of their preferences, this is probably my last post about this.

Every day there's a new sliver of news about the new films and every day the news seems to get better. I was more cautious about a new trilogy than I ever was about the prequels and my new concern had nothing whatsoever to do with episodes one, two and three (it should come as no surprise that I love all three of them), moreover it was the fact that Lucas was not going to be the one holding the reigns (although I do agree that the input and involvement of others in the original trilogy was to the benefit of the films) and also the question of Disney's motivation in making new Star Wars "product".

But it looks like these new movies are going to have heart, just like the films that went before them; they're not going to be shallow, effects-driven and cliched as your average Michael Bay flick.

Just When You Thought It Was Safe To Go Back Into The Cinema? Revenge Of The Gungans? Wicket's Finest Hour?

Seriously, though, it would be nice to see some sort of reference to Journal Of The Whills. It's not the catchiest of titles but I'm sure a lot of us recall it first being mentioned in the prologue to the adaptation of the first Star Wars film and we've been wondering about it ever since. With its appearance in at least one revision of the screenplay for Revenge Of The Sith, the existence of the Whills has clearly not been completely forgotten about.

Thanks for the link, nightstalkerpoet.  Kasdan certainly speaks for me on this issue but I don't think he has any more authority than the so-called purists when they claim to speak for "most" of the fans (even though I'm sure he's probably right).