DuracellEnergizer

darklordoftech said:

type 9: pre-1999 exclusives

 I'm a 9.5 -- largely pre-1999 with a teensy, weensy bit of post-1999 as garnish.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

What proof do you have that making aliens that didn't look at all human was a choice for TNG. They had to use the makeup people they had and they didn't have an unlimited budget as you admit.

I still don't see why they couldn't have at least used some face paint to give the aliens some non-human skin colours or some contact lenses to give them non-human eye colours.

In the end, though, when you get right down to it, I could have lived with the lame rubber forehead aliens if the writers had at least come up with a better explanation for their existence other than the stupid pseudoscientific "ancient rubber forehead aliens seeded the galaxy with DNA designed to evolve into more rubber forehead aliens" crap.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

Oh and at the time it aired TOS was one of the most expensive shows on Tv,so how come they get a pass? They shouldn't

You can give a show the biggest budget in the world, and that won't make a bit of difference if technological limitations get in the way of bringing a creative vision to life.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

and you keep insisting that TNG was the only show that ever had aliens that looked human,it was not.

I never said that. What I said -- basically -- is that TNG's overuse of human and rubber forehead aliens was stupid or -- alternatively -- the explanation behind their existence was.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

Also how did the show that got the best ratings of any Star Trek series and became just as much a part of the pop culture as Star Trek damage Star Trek?

Perhaps the political correctness and pseudoscientific technobabble of the show didn't bother most viewers. I, however, can't stand any of it.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

Oh and again go rewatch the episodes you will find tons of debate between the character but in the end Picard was the captain so the crew did what he said because that is how the military or any job with a chain of command works. it seems to me your problem is with the fact that the crew didn't commit mutiny every single week. That may seem dramatic but it's not realistic and it would have gotten old after a while.

When I speak of conflict between the characters, I don't just mean conflict between Picard and his subordinates on issues pertaining to the running of the Enterprise or missions, I also speak of matters of a more personal nature, such as differing political, religious, philosophical, etc. ideals. From what I saw from TNG, there was never any major difference of opinion between the different crewmembers in regard to these matters.

Take, for example, the episode "Who Watches the Watchers". This episode deals heavily with the idea of theism and theistic worship, and could have easily featured the characters -- each with differing views on the subject -- engaging and debating each other on the idea. Instead, however, each of the main characters are Mary Sues of the writer(s), with each more-or-less sharing the same basic antitheistic beliefs.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

TNG and TOS were set up to explore SCi-Fi ideas and a lot of that technobabble you complain about has a basis in real science and that was the point of the show a lot of weeks. They would take something that was a theory at the time and expand upon it.

Oh, please. Most of that technobabble is pseudoscientific hogwash with as much basis in real science as Young Earth Creationism. Besides, the people-that-be have gone on record stating that all the technobabble in TNG was added to the script merely to pad the story out so that they could have an episode that ran a full hour.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

Oh and I always thought the aliens looked really good,it's only after CGI came around(Something that didn't get into full swing until after the series ended)that I heard anyone complain.

If anything turned me off of human and rubber forehead aliens, it was the works of H. P. Lovecraft, not plastic-looking CGI.

You seem to think that if you put two characters into a room and they don't instantly pull out knives and try to kill each other then the story is badly written. I don't know what to tell you other then that is not how humans in general and military personal act in real life.

You've gotten it into your head that my definition of "interpersonal conflict" means "brawl matches". Well, it doesn't. It means "differences of opinion -- sometimes very strong differences of opinion".

I don't think Star trek is the franchise for you. I think maybe you should give the Sci-Fi version of BSG a try,it seems a lot closer to the type of show you would enjoy.

The Star Trek envisioned by TOS and -- to a somewhat lesser extent -- DS9, is very much a franchise for me. The pretentious, pseudo-Communist Star Trek envisioned by Roddenberry for TNG, on the other hand, isn't.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

Picard and Riker fought all the timeand those briefing room scenes in every episode would show the crew arguing over what the right thing to do was before Picard put his foot down and made his choice,you know just like Kirk use to do with Spock and McCoy. How many knock down drag out fights and personal problems were there between the crew members on TOS again? Because I don't remember any unless you count Spock getting infected with the spores or Pon Far and that is an outside influence and not an internal conflict. You are cheery picking your examples to make TNG look bad and TOS look good.

Well, it has been over a year since I watched TNG, and large amount of episodes were just forgettable, so I can't be blamed for not remembering every single little detail.

Still, outside of that one episode where Troi lost her empathic abilities and the TNG movies, I can't remember a single instance of any major disagreement/argument between any of the crew members.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

For example you are acting like TOS always used aliens that looked like the rock creature for Devil in the Dark when a more typical example of what aliens looked like on the show would be The Apple. While you don't give TNG credit for aliens like the Crystalline Entity or the Sheliak.

I'm well aware that TOS used a lot of human aliens. My point, though, is that this can be excused because of budgetary/technological limitations of the time; I see no similar reasons for why most of the aliens on TNG looked the way they did.

And yes, I know a few exotic creatures like the Crystalline Entity and the Sheliak showed up in TNG. But they are the rare exceptions, and considering how long TNG ran, it's pathetic that significantly more alien aliens never showed up.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

This seems very personal for you and you seem to be going out of your way to make unfair personal attacks against the show and the people who worked on it. My guess is that you are one of those stuck in the mud old school TOS fans who sent Patrick Steward death threats for his crime of daring to try and replace Shatner.

Actually, before last Spring, I hadn't seen a single episode of TOS or TNG since I was in Grade 1 all the way back in the early '90s, so I'm far from and "old school TOS fan". And I like Picard, for the most part.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

You need to take a step back and take off the rose tinted glasses and see that TOS was not perfect and TNG did not have an unlimited budget.

No, TOS was not perfect -- far from it. The show was hindered by a lack of character development, character arcs, story arcs, and technical limitations, all of which are unfortunate results of the time the show was made in. Has TOS been made a couple of decades later, it probably wouldn't have suffered from these defects.

And no, TNG didn't have an unlimited budget. Still, would it have cost that much more to invest in more alien-looking facial prosthetics, a bit of body paint, and maybe some coloured contact lenses?

I don't believe anyone working on TNg was lazy,lazy people don't work 18 hour days and don't completely rewrite scripts that have been sent to them at the last minute because the story isn't working.

I'm not calling the writers lazy (well, they were when it came to the technobabble). I'm calling the people who were behind the design of most of the aliens lazy.

Of course, as I said, they might not be lazy, just lacking in vision.

I will admit in the third season when Roddenberry stopped controlling the day to day TNG showed a massive improvement in the story and character department,but you seem to be grasping at any reason to hate this show as if it hurt somehow or you think the people behind it are guilty of some kind of crime and should be in jail or death row.

I don't hate TNG -- I like a fair number of characters and episodes. However, that doesn't mean I don't think the show had far too many flaws and a rather large negative impact on the ST Universe.

TIMELINE-X

PODD

?

DISTINGUISHING CHARACTERISTICS

This universe is X-rated.

FINAL NOTES

My big head says “no”, but my little head says “yes”.

TIMELINE-W

PODD

?

DISTINGUISHING CHARACTERISTICS

This Earth is inhabited by wyverns.

FINAL NOTES

Meh.

TIMELINE-V

PODD

c. 2007

DISTINGUISHING CHARACTERISTICS

In this reality, the extraterrestrial Davidickeans invaded and conquered Earth. All humans who survived the initial war and subsequent genocides either became livestock for the Davidickeans or living incubators for their young.

FINAL NOTES

I, for one, welcome our new insect reptilian overlords …

But ascetics don't have sexual flings. The whole notion of asceticism is to avoid indulgences, not to give in to them.

twister111 said:

Just realized Disney now owns these too. Well they own the servers that the blip versions that these are hosted on.

Okay explanation time! I was watching Japancast on Blip. Scrolled down too far on accident saw the thing that said "Blip is part of Maker Studios". Well recently Disney bought Maker Studios. Ipso facto Disney now owns both Star Wars and the servers that store the RLM reviews about them.

THE RLM REVIEWS ARE NOW DISNEY OWNED!!!!!!!

pittrek said:

- TNG aliens - I have never ever seen so realistically looking aliens as in TNG/DS9/VOY. Westmore's team did an amazing job. Unfortunately they started to do CG aliens in Voyager and later Enterprise, they look horrible. I'm also really glad they used humanoids, it's the most probable way how aliens would look like.

Yeah, it's so realistic that virtually 99% of all sentient species in the galaxy would evolve to look, sound, and act like humans save for a few forehead ridges and pointed ears. *rollseyes*

No, to be honest, alien life out there shouldn't look much like humanity at all. If anything, it should look like this:

or this

- no internal conflict on TNG - it's actually a GOOD thing. That's the reason why millions of people all over the planet LOVE the show. BECAUSE the main characters are friends, and the conflict always comes from the outside. It also adds a further element of reality. If you're away in space for 10 years you simply MUST like the people you meet on a daily basis. Otherwise you'd get crazy.

Your argument hinges on the precept that friends/family never have any major arguments or fights. Unfortunately, things don't work that way; in the real world, even people who love one another deeply aren't going to agree on every single little thing.

Having it so that Riker never questions Picard's orders -- or anything else along those lines -- makes the characters and their relationships look flat and inauthentic.

SilverWook said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

DrCrowTStarwars said:

This is why I hate Star trek fandom. It's all a bunch of worship and different views are never welcome.  All you are ever allowed to say is Kirk is great and Roddenbury is god and created the universe. Everyone always has to walk in lockstep and never question anything.  For a show that is supposed to be about love and free thinking,the fans are some of the most closed minded and hateful people I have ever met.

To be honest, I think Kirk is just okay (Sisko is far better) and that Roddenberry was just another conceited, revisionist hack like Lucas.

 Making the TNG era a more politically correct utopian age, devoid of interpersonal conflict, is not akin to making silly changes to your old movies and forcing them down the fans' throats. Not by a long shot.

Perhaps I'm using too much hyperbole yet again. From what I've read about the man, though, he seems to share the same conceited opinion of himself and his influence upon Star Trek that Lucas has in regards to Star Wars. And how he tried to remove references to TOS in TNG reeks of Lucas-style "original vision" BS.

Frankly, I think that if Roddenberry have lived to see the SE, he probably would have tried to follow Lucas' example and re-edit TOS into meshing with TNG.

I liked Sisko, but the revelation that he really was the Kwistaz Haderach of the wormhole aliens was a bit much.

To be honest, I stopped watching DS9 with the second-to-last episode of Season 6, so I never bore witness to any of the peculiarities/absurdities that followed thereafter.

Yep, Nashira is Anakin's future wife. In this story, though, they're more like foster brother-sister (for obvious reasons).

Tobar said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Not necessarily. Lucas himself came up with the retcon that the PT-era Jedi, while never allowed to fall in love or have long-term relationships, still went around having sex and one-night stands*.

 

*Is it any wonder why I utterly loathe the PT Jedi and Lucas "brilliant" vision? 

 Where did he reveal this? Ô_o

Not sure, but I've come across the quote of him saying as such a few times. I think even the EU's taken to running with the stupid idea. 

EXT. SPACE

With flickers of pseudo-motion, the Nyax and its escort of dreadnaughts and assault ships drop out of hyperspace. They move forward, heading toward the three primary-coloured suns of the Dania star system in the distance.

Soon, the ships arrive at Dania VII, the seventh planet of the star system. Somewhat larger than Earth, Dania VII is a deep scarlet world criss-crossed with large blue-green lines of water.

Making their descent, the Mandalorian ships enter the atmosphere of the scarlet planet.

EXT. DANIA VII - LANDSCAPE - DAY

The Mandalorian ships fly through the emerald sky of Dania VII, passing over a breathtakingly beautiful landscape of red rainforest. As the roar of the ships' engines passes over the scarlet trees, flocks of exotic birds take to flight in sudden alarm.

As the ships pass over a majestic waterfall, the red forest suddenly gives way to a vast, sprawling metropolis. Though most of the city is of modern construction -- composed out of duracrete and durasteel -- the largest structures consist of towering pyramids and parapets carved from stone in long-forgotten, ancient times; composed of black basalt, the ancient structures stand like ominous sentinels over the smaller Mandalorian buildings.

EXT. METROPOLIS - DOCKYARDS - DAY

Arriving at their destination, the Nyax along with the assault ships and destroyers make their descent, touching down upon the vast dockyards of the Mandalorian metropolis. Standing in wait for them is a large prison transport and an entire platoon of armed Mandalorian warriors.

Once secure upon the ground, the Nyax begins disgorging its crew of prisoners. Each of the prisoners -- all thirty-three of them -- are led out of the dungeon ship at gunpoint and herded toward the prison transport. As the prisoners are directed toward the open hatch of the transport, the members of the platoon standing directly before the vehicle move aside to allow the captives access to it. One-by-one, the prisoners come to the prison transport, slipping past the open, dark hatch and climbing aboard.

Once all are inside, the hatch is sealed shut, and the engines of the transport come to life. And then, without further ado, the vehicle departs, leaving the dockyards for the greater city beyond.

INT. PRISON TRANSPORT/PRISONER COMPARTMENT - DAY

The thirty-three prisoners -- each of various ages, genders, and species -- sit on a pair of benches bolted to the inside of the compartment walls, despondent expressions on many of their faces. While most of them are obviously untrained in the ways of the Force, there are a few who carry an air about them which hints that they are skilled Force practitioners.

Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Siri sit together on one of the benches; while Ben and Siri stare straight ahead, their faces expressionless, Nik can't help but to look about him, turning his head this way and that way like an inquisitive bird. Currently, his attention is grabbed by the sobbing of a child located somewhere inside the large compartment.

ANAKIN: You hear that?

SIRI: It sounds like a young girl.

ANAKIN: I'm going to check it out.

OBI-WAN: Be careful, Anakin. Not all of our fellow prisoners are our friends.

ANAKIN: I'll be careful.

Rising from his spot between the two Jedi, Nik begins making his way up the aisle between the two benches, following the sound of the heavy sobs. Soon he comes to its source -- a YOUNG HUMAN GIRL, no more than eleven years of age, with pretty features and strawberry blonde hair; hunkered down between a seemingly oblivious Talz and whiphid, she cries into her hands, visibly afraid of her surroundings.

ANAKIN: (kneels down before the girl) Hey.

The girl looks up at him, sniffling.

GIRL: Hey.

ANAKIN: I couldn't help but notice you were crying. Seems to me you could use someone to talk to.

GIRL: (wipes her eyes) That'd be nice.

ANAKIN: (smiles) My name's Anakin, or Nik for short. What's yours?

GIRL: Nashira.

ANAKIN: Don't you have anyone with you, Nashira?

NASHIRA (GIRL): (shakes her head) I was returning home from school when we were attacked. (beat) Everyone else -- all my friends -- were killed. I was the only one they took back with them.

ANAKIN: (frowns) Your parents --?

NASHIRA: They're back home, on Orron III.

ANAKIN: I'll bet you miss them, don't you?

NASHIRA: (nods) I haven't seen them since before school started.

ANAKIN: I haven't seen my Mom in a while, either.

NASHIRA: You go to an offworld school, too?

ANAKIN: (laughs) Something like that. (beat) I had to leave my Mom and sister behind on Tatooine to become a Jedi.

At this news, the strawberry blonde girl perks up a bit, her pretty blue eyes sparkling.

NASHIRA: You're a Jedi!? That's so amazing! (beat) Is it true that those midi-chlorian injections hurt?

ANAKIN: (confused) Mido-what?

NASHIRA: Do you have a kyber crystal? For your energy-spear? (beat) No, I guess you don't. They would have taken it from you.

ANAKIN: I've only started my Jedi training, Nashira. I haven't learned what moto-corinthians or kyber crystals are yet.

NASHIRA: (disappointed) Oh ...

ANAKIN: (laughs) Hey, don't give up on me yet. I've already learned how to use the Force a bit.

NASHIRA: It's not that. I just thought you'd be able to save me, save all of us. (beat) No one can beat a Jedi.

ANAKIN: (sighs) Even if I was a fully trained Jedi, I don't think I'd be able to get us out of this jam.

NASHIRA: (astonished) But Jedi are invincible!

ANAKIN: (puts his hand on her shoulder) I'm sorry to disappoint you, 'Shira, but I came here with two Jedi, (looks back over his shoulder toward where Ben and Siri are seated) and they couldn't do much more than you or I could. (turns back to Nashira) It's going to take a little bit more than Jedi powers to get off this planet and get back home.

In reply, Nashira smiles.

ANAKIN: (noticing her smile) I didn't know happiness went hand-in-hand with dashed hopes.

NASHIRA: You called me 'Shira. It's what my mom and dad used to call me when I was little.

ANAKIN: Your parents, eh? Why don't you tell me about them?

NASHIRA: Will you tell me about yours?

ANAKIN: It's a deal. (beat) How about we go back to my friends, Ben and Siri, first? (looks at the whiphid and Talz sitting on either side of Nashira) I think they'd make better company than your babysitters here.

NASHIRA: (grins) Alright!

Climbing off her bench, Nashira takes Anakin by the hand, and he leads her back to where he was seated with Ben and Siri.

OBI-WAN: (to Nashira, smiling) Hello, there. Who might you be, Princess?

NASHIRA: (grins) Nashira DuQuesne.

OBI-WAN: (offers her his hand) I am Obi-Wan Kenobi, at your service.

Nashira takes his hand and give it a loose shake.

NASHIRA: Nice to meet you, Obi-Wan.

The young girl then turns to Siri, who regards her with a half-smile.

SIRI: (offers Nashira her own hand) I'm Siri.

Nashira takes Siri's hand and give it a shake as well.

NASHIRA: Pleased to meet you, too, Siri.

Moving aside, the two Jedi Knights open up enough space for Anakin and Nashira to sit down between them. Nik sits down first, then helps Nashira in beside him. No longer alone, Nashira's face glows with hope and happiness.

Not necessarily. Lucas himself came up with the retcon that the PT-era Jedi, while never allowed to fall in love or have long-term relationships, still went around having sex and one-night stands*.

*Is it any wonder why I utterly loathe the PT Jedi and Lucas "brilliant" vision? 

DrCrowTStarwars said:

STUPID RASH! It itches so much it's painful and I can't sleep,always happens when pollen is in the air. I hate spring. I am so tired I am hardly able to move durring the day but I still itch too much to get to sleep. If I don't get a full eight hour soon i am going to snap and go on a killing spree.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ouch. I sneeze and get congested like crazy from pollen every April-May, but I never get itchy or rashes. That must suck like hell.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

This is why I hate Star trek fandom. It's all a bunch of worship and different views are never welcome.  All you are ever allowed to say is Kirk is great and Roddenbury is god and created the universe. Everyone always has to walk in lockstep and never question anything.  For a show that is supposed to be about love and free thinking,the fans are some of the most closed minded and hateful people I have ever met.

To be honest, I think Kirk is just okay (Sisko is far better) and that Roddenberry was just another conceited, revisionist hack like Lucas.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Sadako said:

The nonsense biology I can buy--it's the 24th century, and based on a remark made in TNG 02x20, it seems that someone has developed a gene splicing doohickey for interspecies couples, and it's existence is apparently well-known and often used, given the existence of B'Elanna, K'Ehleyr, Spock, and Troi

That doesn't explain interspecies offspring in situations where such technology simply wasn't available (Worf's human brother having a child with some rubber forehead chick on a primitive planet, for example).

I simply don't know why the writers didn't simply make most of the human and rubber forehead aliens genetic offshoots of humanity. Going by TOS, we already know aliens had transplanted humans to other worlds from Earth long before humans developed interstellar travel; it's well within the realm of possibility that some of these transplanted populations could have evolved/been modified into new species and subspecies over the centuries/millennia.

Jeez ... now I'm just serving to remind myself of why I dislike TNG so much. Why did the writers of the show have to bungle almost every aspect of the ST Universe in such a horrible, slipshod manner?

 That sounds like how they explained every planet having humans or human like aliens on it in SG1.

Kind of. While humans on other worlds in the SG1verse were transplanted there from Earth, human life on Earth was originally seeded there by the Ancients, which is pretty much the same stupid explanation TNG gave for all the human and rubber forehead alien races running around in the ST Universe.

Oy, now I want to bitch about SG-1 (I've got far more grievances with it than I have for TNG).

Warbler said:

From our conversation in the "If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place" Thread

DuracellEnergizer said:

Let's see ... how did TNG fuck things up ...

In no particular order:

All the pseudoscientific technobabble. I don't remember TOS ever resorting to this crap to any significant degree.

I think they was some techobabble in TOS

There was some technobabble in TOS, but not much. Certainly not to the degree that it was in TNG.  

 

The stupid "The Federation is a 110% perfect, atheist utopia that never does anything wrong and never uses money" crap.

It was kind of a utopia in TOS and in TNG, they Admirals and other Captians making mistakes.

The Federation of TOS was a better place than the modern world, but it was never presented as perfect, which TNG tried to do.

 

Making it so that there is never any major conflict between the main characters of the show. Everyone just always gets along like one big, boring family from some '50s-'80s sitcom.

They got along mostly in TOS. Well ok, Spoke and Mccoy fought alot.

That's still more than what was shown on TNG.

 

The overuse of human and rubber forehead aliens.

I thought the make jobs were pretty good, especially compared to TOS

TOS had an excuse for less-than-stellar alien designs -- truly complex designs just couldn't have been done on a TV series' budget in the '60s.

TNG has no such excuse beyond laziness and/or a lack of vision among the showrunners.

 

Turning the Klingons into stupid, dirty, one-note brutes.

?

You must have been watching a different set of Klingons than I was watching. The Klingons I was watching were turned from the dirth one-note brutes they had been in TOS to honor bound warriors in TNG.

Let's see ... the Klingons in TNG didn't bathe, didn't brush their teeth, ate like animals ... I don't recall the Klingons in TOS ever acting like this.

Oh, and the "honour bound warriors" thing is exactly why I call them "one-note". Honour this, Kahless that -- blah, blah, blah. In the end, all the TNG+ Klingons were were bloodthirsty cannon fodder without any depth or diversity.

 

Never allowing the interesting characters like Data to ever significantly grow and develop.

name me one character that developed in TOS?

Yes, you're right in this regard -- there wasn't much character development in TOS, and that remains one of the worst flaws of the show. But at least the TOS movies got to developing some of the main characters.

TNG, on the other hand, never did anything considerable with its characters, even after moving to the big screen. Well, except for making Picard a silly action hero and turning Data into a complete joke.

 

Oh, and IMO, DS9 didn't fuck up Star Trek.

what about the war?

I liked the war. It brought something new to the table and breathed fresh life into a franchise that was basically coasting on fumes.

Of course, Jadzia married Worf and eventually died, which I hated, and DS9 continued to perpetuate the annoying technobabble and stupid Klingons, so the series was far from perfect.

If he has, it hasn't been since the mid '80s at the latest. Or he's trying to imply that Bill's assessment of Superman -- and by extention his assessment of the Bride's character herself -- is a load of BS (I don't know if Tarantino is capable of such subtlety, though).

Blood: The Last Vampire (2000) - 7/10

Monster House (2006) - 8.5/10

Kill Bill: Vol. 2 (2004)

Suffice it to say, I don't agree with Bill's assessment of Superman AT ALL.

8/10

Let's see ... how did TNG fuck things up ...

In no particular order:

All the pseudoscientific technobabble. I don't remember TOS ever resorting to this crap to any significant degree.

The stupid "The Federation is a 110% perfect, atheist utopia that never does anything wrong and never uses money" crap.

Making it so that there is never any major conflict between the main characters of the show. Everyone just always gets along like one big, boring family from some '50s-'80s sitcom. 

The overuse of human and rubber forehead aliens.

Turning the Klingons into stupid, dirty, one-note brutes.

Never allowing the interesting characters like Data to ever significantly grow and develop.

Oh, and IMO, DS9 didn't fuck up Star Trek. If anything, it rectified some of the damage that TNG had done and restored some of the fun to the ST Universe that had been lacking in it since the TOS films had come to an end.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

Are you really saying that there should be no action scenes of any kind in these movies?

No. I'm just saying that not everything has to be about giant robots, giant robots, alien invasions, world-conquering supervillains, etc. for it to have action in it. Smaller-scale stories -- ones about kidnappings, hostage situations, etc. -- are just as capable of delivering action as their bombastic cousins.

DrCrowTStarwars said:

Because each one seems to have been focused on the character,just with an adventure story. They have as many character moments as the original Star Wars movies and everything that happens is a direct reaction to our heroes.

*Everything else*

Okay. I'm going to list each of the MCU movies I've seen, and bring up my grievances with each of them.

Iron Man

I just didn't like Tony Stark's character. He came off as too much of a douchebag for me to root for him.

As for everything else -- the supporting cast, the villains, the story in general -- it was all just very average to me.

The Incredible Hulk

Liv Tyler was as bland as soggy toilet paper and Tim Roth's only motivation was penis envy. The rest of the movie was just a run-of-the-mill action movie that didn't do anything for me whatsoever.

Thor

The writer(s) cut out the Donald Blake aspect of the character -- removing the human element from Thor completely -- and just turned him into an arrogant blonde douchbag who meandered around the whole movie acting like an arrogant blonde douchbag until finally learning humility because the plot said he had to, not because the character actually showed any signs of progession or growth over the course of the movie's runtime.

While the actor who portrayed Loki did a good job with what he had to work with, the character in the movie basically was just an emo with daddy issues, far from the magnificent bastard of the comics.

Natalie Portman was a boring non-entity, just like always.

Tobar said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

The thing is is that if a superhero movie just doesn't click for me, I'm not going to give any of its sequels a chance. I need satisfactory characterization right off the bat, otherwise that's all she'll write.

There's your problem right there. The first set of films were to establish the characters. The post-Avengers aka Phase 2 films have all been about character growth and dealing with the aftermath of the Battle of New York. Iron Man 3 has Tony Stark dealing with PTSD, Thor 2 is about the relationship between he and his brother and Cap2 is about Steve Rogers trying to find his place in the world.

Ah, yes -- I have to watch the sequels to get the "full story". Just like I have to read the novels and the comics, watch the TV shows, and play the video games to get the "full story" of the prequels.

And therein lies another problem with superhero movies these days -- everything is written with sequels in mind. Nothing is self-contained anymore; everything has to be a fragment of a larger story.

Mike O said:

Damn him in the ass!

How do you damn someone in the ass?

Violently and without their consent ... 

DrCrowTStarwars said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Truth be told, I don't enjoy the MCU. There's far too much style, not nearly enough substance.

I'd much rather watch superhero movies that are smaller in scale, with more emphasis placed on character development, than ones with big explosions, CG monsters, and megalomaniacal villains trying to take over the world. 

  I think they got the focus just right,these are supposed to be adventure stories for kids after all so the focus should be on the adventure.

A story can have adventure without sacrificing/deemphasizing characterization and without the entire city/nation/world/etc. having to be at risk.

Each movie has had enough moments to make me care about the characters and the setting so I don't really have a problem.

The thing is is that if a superhero movie just doesn't click for me, I'm not going to give any of its sequels a chance. I need satisfactory characterization right off the bat, otherwise that's all she'll write.

I mean people have complained that the Spiderman and XMen series had too many shots of heroes crying so you have to find a balance and I think they did.

From the MCU movies I've seen, I've seen no balance whatsoever. If anything, they just sit on the opposite end of the spectrum from the movies you mentioned.

I still think Han should have held some resentment/distrust towards Lando in ROTJ for what transpired in TESB.

How about you replace Porkins' dialogue with dialogue spoken by Lt. Eckhardt from Batman '89? You could also dub in the Joker's line "Eckhardt, think about the future!" coming in over Porkins' radio right before he gets shot down.