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Doctor M

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Join date
1-Feb-2005
Last activity
27-Jun-2025
Posts
2,544

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Post
#132936
Topic
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/132936/action/topic#132936
Time
I am too.

For those still asking, my first mailer will contain one set aimed for a.b.starwars distribution and 2 sets for a Pay It Forward system.

If you want to get it from a.b.sw read the thread for info on grabbing from there.
If you want to get onto the PIF system, step up and post on the thread.

If anyone can get these on MySpleen, let me know, I still have no one firm there.
Post
#132854
Topic
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/132854/action/topic#132854
Time
Is anybody even paying attention to my rants anymore?

Anyway I did the only thing that was left as an option. I blew the dust off my Laserdisc set (Incredible Shrinking Aspect Ratio set) which I always felt to have pretty good colors. Wired it up and did a half dozen captures.

Wellll (yup with 4 'L's'), I learned some interesting things. Of course every scene is different as we knew. Hues could tilt left then right SIGNIFICANTLY from one scene to the next, as did intensities of every single color.

But there were 2 constants for all captures:
1) Moth3r's (and assumingly the PAL laserdisc source) had significantly smaller dynamic range to the colors. A specific color spike that looks like an 'I' on the vectorscope frequently looked more like a 'V' on my set. This is the real source of the washed out look of this set. I don't have the tools or knowledge on how to fix that if it is even possible.
2) Every single strong yellow frame needed a boost from 25-33% to match my LD set.

The capture on the previous page of this thread, showing 3PO with R2, peaks to the same level (when boosted) BUT looks slightly orange because the hue is tilted more red. Since it is not an intensity problem and there is no consistency to the hue changes, that won't be altered.

The only thing left (and I'm going to sleep on it) is an odd undersaturation of the opening crawl. I mean we're talking a need for a 75% boost!
No this isn't the only part that's less accurate, but it is something I may fix because it gives me brain itch. More likely I'll learn to live with it.

WHICH MEANS...
DVD's will be burned tomorrow... woohoo.

I'm very satisfied with what I've produced and they will have a place of honor in my DVD collection... at least for then next few months until Citizen gets his edition out and kicks my ass.

Now I can start working on L.A. Story Extended Edition. :-) Or sleep... Maybe the beach, I'm getting sort of pale working on this project.
Post
#132631
Topic
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/132631/action/topic#132631
Time
Sigh, I'm wishing I had an X0 Project frame from ESB to compare to.
I know every scene/frame has different color characteristics, but right now I'm looking for some global reference that's better than my best guess.

I anticipated a release early this week, but I'm still unsure if I want to back the 25% yellow off to 15% or not.
The thing is at 25% the opening crawl still looks drab-er than it probably should.

And now I'm noticing that boosting the Cyan brings out some very nice detail in Hoth's snowscapes previously lost in all white regions. It's very nice looking (especially the skys) and it doesn't turn white hallways blue like it would have if I boosted it in ANH. Again the Vectorscope shows that even boosted, Cyan peaks out around 50-60% so it's not unreasonable. But is it right?

Again, sigh, any advice anyone could give me at this point would be great 'cause I'm just spinning my wheels now. I don't want Smurf Wars or Goldie Wars or anything, but a little more color wouldn't be out of place. I just don't know what's right anymore.
Post
#132447
Topic
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/132447/action/topic#132447
Time
I need some input from you all.
As I've said I don't have a set up to do any real color correction, nor do I have any references to go from.

For Empire I checked the vector graphs to see where the colors were peaking. Everything is nicely saturated, but it seemed that the same 25% boost to the yellow and green spectrums used for New Hope wouldn't be out of place.

Actually watching the full movie last night I had a feeling that the yellows were too bright (compared to the rest of the colors).

Below is a screenshot from the end of ESB. Now there IS yellow lighting coming from in front of the subjects so you have yellow on a gold '3PO, but does this seem wrong to anyone else?

http://adventureclub.postrock.net/3po.jpg
Looking to the future... ^
http://adventureclub.postrock.net/3po2.jpg
3PO and Chewie share a quiet moment... ^
Post
#132131
Topic
<strong>The &quot;ADigitalMan Special Editions&quot; DVD Info and Feedback Thread</strong> (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/132131/action/topic#132131
Time
So was the final decision not to re-torrent the corrected Vergence only put it into the PIF system?
Were both the single and dual layers fixed?
Don't really know why I'm asking since I missed the error until someone mentioned it, but I guess I am interested in getting into the PIF of the DL once Ep. 3 is ready.
Post
#131784
Topic
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/131784/action/topic#131784
Time
Ok, major update now in first post (including some new thoughts on making a true/pure NTSC conversion of Moth3r's discs).

Where I stand? ANH: Finished! ESB: Finished(?)
I will sit through ESB in the next few days and make sure. ANH had a billion audio edit points to sync the audio, ESB had like 4 (THX audio swoosh noise (btw, ripped from my Fight Club dvd)), Leia welding was a separate audio file (again THANKS ARNIE.D), and one major (nasty) break that required ADDING audio *shudder*.

Same video filters were appropriate. I am VERY optimistic that I am done until Moth3r catches up with his RotJ.

Soooo, anyone interested, PM me.
Release I think will be a multipronged attack. Pay-it-forward is good for those that like that, a.b.star.wars newsgroup is fine, a torrent on MySpleen would be great (I'll help seed if someone can get it going). Anyone willing to do any or all of these please contact me and I'll get these out within about a week.

No I don't believe it either.
Post
#130696
Topic
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/130696/action/topic#130696
Time
I could do 720x368, but then there would definitely be more lost into the overscan than Moth3r's original (and possibly the laserdisc depending on how his capture card worked).
Additionally that would only be true for ANH since for Empire and Jedi the left/right borders are 4 lines. So then you'd be talking a 4 horizontal line gain and having slight different resolutions for the movies.

If I re-encode to fix a few problems I saw, I'll consider it. But, how much can you really gain since the source laser disc had a lot less lines than I do now.
Post
#130537
Topic
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/130537/action/topic#130537
Time
I'm on the fence. I'd love to send out discs to people willing to do the heavy lifting (torrent sites, a.b.starwars, etc.) I would of course need volunteers.

Additionally, I haven't decided whether this is going to be on a per-movie basis or a complete set.
I should have ESB in a day or two ready to work with, but I do not yet have the audio track for ESB or RotJ.
Also RotJ hasn't been released from Moth3r yet so that's probably going to be the real bottle-neck to a complete set.

It just seems easier to send 3 discs at once to people rather than 1 at a time.
Post
#130475
Topic
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/130475/action/topic#130475
Time
Ok ok, my arm is well twisted.
My computer has been churning hard for a long long time and has spit out what will probably be my final version of ANH. 6-passes, PCM audio, etc, etc.

There are no black borders (beyond the few lines in Moth3r's original). You have the full 360 lines of picture that all other anamorphic transfers will have.
It looks pretty darn good. There are 80 chapter points (of questionable accuracy).

I will sit through the film this weekend to check for any serious encoding problems or audio sync errors.
While you all are waiting for me to do the dirty job. Here's some final post filter, post encoding screenies.
http://adventureclub.postrock.net/anh.jpg
http://adventureclub.postrock.net/anh2.jpg

I'll update the first post in the thread after that.
Then I can relax a few days while I finish grabbing ESB from MySpleen...
Btw, did I actually see bitrot in the original release?

Post
#130015
Topic
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/130015/action/topic#130015
Time
Um, no still lost there I think.

The original PAL disc is by and large cropped to the left and right.
By adding black bars it prevents further loss of film width into the overscan region of a TV set.
The aspect ratio seems to already be correct therefore I am only resizing smaller and adding black bars to the left and right to ostensibly make up for missing frame.

Now I did go a little further than what was actually cropped since they probably cropped around 45 +/- lines total and I'm adding about 38 lines per side which is the approximate width of most overscan regions.

It's still possible that I might split the difference and only add borders to make up for actual missing lines (but evenly on both sides).
Post
#129997
Topic
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/129997/action/topic#129997
Time
What people will notice and possibly get annoyed at is the presence of black bars on the sides -- even more so if they're not the same size.
I guess this was a reference to me using different size bars. No, I chucked that, the plan (sorta) as it stands is the 32 lines to both the left and right.

The question I've put to the group a few times now (though phrased differently): does ANYONE watch these DVD's on a video device that does not have overscan? If the answer is 'no', then no-one would ever see the presence of black bars (to the sides anyway) unless their TV is misaligned.

You're right, it never crossed my mind that everyone's capture is going to be with different devices with different size capture windows. Though I was assuming the Official DVD was played in a PC not captured so would be closest to the complete frame width.

What's stopping you from upsizing that to 720xX, since you were planning on resizing it anyway?

Huh?
Post
#129920
Topic
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/129920/action/topic#129920
Time
Wow, I finally had it in my head that I'd compromise on the left/right borders and find the exact number of lines cut from each side. Then I could resize and recenter so that although smaller and with overscan, all subjects in the film would appear the same size as any other NTSC edition (with black borders added to only make up for cropped PAL lines).

Perusing the Official and Unofficial screenshot sites, and playing around with the images I made a discovery. It's completely inconsistent. Completely, oddly, insanely, and randomly inconsistent. In some cases they take 32-40 lines off the left and a few from the right, sometimes none from the left and a few from the right. I even found a scene where the right side has more image (by like 20 lines) than ANY NTSC edition. (Though where they got the extra image area from is beyond me.)

There is too much variablitiy from scene to scene to actually correct for this.
So my final answer is: a movie screen has no overscan region, neither will my DVD. If at a later date this becomes necessary to change, I'll do it, but I'm sure these discs will be obsolete by then. I'm still utilizing a few lines more than the original source PAL laserdisc so resolution loss isn't much of an issue. The only real negative is smaller overall image and that might be an issue for small dimension TVs.

Again, if there are enough people asking, I will release the overscaned version and keep the other for myself only, but as yet, I have heard from no-one actually interested in obtaining a copy who wishes there to be no borders.
Post
#129661
Topic
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/129661/action/topic#129661
Time
As long as I'm throwing everything open to debate. Quien es mas macho for resizing downward: bilinear of lanczos(3)?
I've done a lot of Googling and found a lot of conflicting opinions. Bilnear is frequently said to be best for shrink, but lanczos is accept to produce sharper results. Sight, every time I think I'm nearly done, I find another fine point to hash out first.
Post
#129517
Topic
<strong>The Cowclops Transfers (a.k.a. the PCM audio DVD's, Row47 set) Info and Feedback Thread</strong> (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/129517/action/topic#129517
Time
I kinda thought the original CC was better as well when I first saw the demo clip. I mean some technical problems were fixed and all, but still...
(Not to be an ass but: ) if you are looking for less technically accurate, but more pleasing visually, you might want to check clips of the discs I'm working on.
Post
#129507
Topic
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/129507/action/topic#129507
Time
Are you sure? I came up with 288 when I calculated.
Hmm, anyway I am allowing 328 lines for the picture as it is. Now that is somewhat artificial since it has already been enlarged and now I'm reducing it, but whichever number is right (and I'm going to assume it's Moth3r) I'm still slightly larger so there should be minimal if any loss of the original pal resolution when I'm done.

Btw, Moth3r please get back to me on the 8 vs 4 lines thing in PM.
Post
#129436
Topic
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/129436/action/topic#129436
Time
Erikstormtrooper: Yeah, my dad's TV is slightly off center too and gives a fractional sliver of black down one side, but my other TV covers all of the black up.

As far as the zoom(?) I am of course trying to counter the cropping already done to the movie. But yeah, the down side is a reduced number of actual lines used for the picture. But although it's much less lines than Moth3r's disc, since it is anamorphic it still contains more lines than the original laserdisc source (I think).
Does anyone know the number of actual lines used in a PAL 2.35:1 laserdisc? I think I'm going to go do some calculations on that this afternoon I don't want less...

As far as the break up, I didn't notice, but that clip is several pieces edited together, so there might be some problems from that. I'll check that too.
Post
#129292
Topic
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/129292/action/topic#129292
Time
That being said I think the general consensus is that things look good and I should get going on the final steps.

As far as the borders go, I guess I will ask the group here since most people seem to disapprove.

I will be definitely be encoding my own copy with the borders. If the demand is overwhelming (for those that will actually WANT a copy), I can make the released version without them.

Ok so poll time. For clarity sake refer to them as TV friendly (with picture framing) or Monitor friendly (no additional borders).
Post
#129290
Topic
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/129290/action/topic#129290
Time
We walk a fine line here. On the one side is our goal to preserve the original version of Star Wars we grew up with and loved before things went horribly wrong.

On the other side we also have a desire to sit, watch and enjoy the movies we are attempting to preserve. It is our love for them that has us here to start with after all.

Now I know I am leaning quite far into the latter category with my project, and perhaps I wasn't clear from the start. (Though calling it "Reinventing The Wheel" should tip you off that I am aware of the real necessity of my project.) It's also understood that from a preservation stand-point re-encoding a DVD isn't your finest method.

Think of it as a homage to Moth3r's beautiful transfer, which is perhaps the best of all current and complete sets that have been made.

I started this because I want to be able to watch and enjoy his fine work from my sofa, away from my PC. I only have a NTSC DVD player, and I saw a few tweaks that might elevated the movies further. That's why I set about producing these discs for myself. Public release will only be a side-effect since just about anyone could do this (or their interpretation) on their own.

Am I preserving the OT for future generations? Not well I'm not. That's a conscious decision. Heck, my current set of laserdiscs are of the "Incredible Shrinking Aspect-Ratio" set, not exactly one worth remembering.

If your goal is pure preservation, you could grab Cowclop's latest masterpiece, get the original Moth3r set if PAL is your bent, donate to the X0 project, or buy some hardware and start your own archive edition.

I am perfectly aware that what I have done will be obsolete (maybe even before I finish), but that isn't the point. (Look for a possible v2.0 after Citizen has his say). I've never made a secret of my general dislike for the quality of almost all current transfers for one reason or another. What I want is the best home viewing experience I can muster with what is available and not starting from scratch. The PAL resolution of Moth3r's was a great starting point.

And that's why the black bars, that's why the color and brightness tweaks. Are they correct decisions? Maybe not. That's why I'm so willing to take input from people that aren't partially color blind (as I am) or probably just plain know more than I do. Is it pleasing to watch from my sofa? Oh, yes it is.

So I agree 100% that I could have done more to preserve the series, but there are better people than I already doing it. If that's what you want than these are not the discs you're looking for.

BUT deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.
Post
#129210
Topic
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/129210/action/topic#129210
Time
Segaflip: Do you mean this guy: http://aptirrelevance.com/otscreenshots/screenshots.php?shot=4? If so I'll grab a screenshot of him for you.

Moth3r: Yeah, I'm agnozing over the borders, and if so how much. I'm curious if anyone has burned these and tried it on a TV. I'm not sure my TV just has a large overscan region or not.
(Edit: I took a look at the filter, I'm not sure I like how it softens the picture too. The other problem is I'm using VirtualDubMod and frameserving to CCE and they don't seem to have a VD version of the filter.)

Darth: great, now I if someone has the French PAL side changes...
Post
#129151
Topic
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/129151/action/topic#129151
Time
MAJOR UPDATE: I gave up trying to make the original audio sound good, grabbed some new software and spent 7 hours(!) last night learning as I went and doing some beautiful work putting that Definitive Collection audio track in.

I'm tired, but I am sooooo happy with it. Cuts in the audio are crossfaded in such a way as to remain unnoticed (hopefully).
I burned a test disc with provisional (1 pass CQ) video. It is stunning just like that.

Don't believe me? The first post of this thread has gotten overhauled to reflect what is what and includes a clip (at bottom) of the release candidate video.
That's a 7-pass vbr, now how do I make CCE go all the way to 11?
Let me know what you think, and be honest, this IS for posterity. To bright, to yellow, too much border, etc.
Final encoding will start in a couple days.

I'm currently d/l-ing Moth3r's ESB. Does anyone have the chapter cuts for this as well (French and DC)? That made life MUCH easier last night.