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Doctor M

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1-Feb-2005
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19-Jan-2026
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Post
#196130
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/196130/action/topic#196130
Time
And now a ramble:

I've been re-tweaking M3. The quality has been good, but I keep going back and forth over things.
I just clipped one small scene that I had trimmed down and now removed all together for pace.
Something else I had cut before now makes an appearance in hopes of smoothing out other things..

I'm both happy and annoyed with these edits. M2 has proven to be a delight. A movie I was so-so over to start with I now find enjoyable. I didn't think I could improve it as much as I did. The new beginning, ending and tighter pacing really do wonders.
On the down side M3 I figured would turn out better than M2, but it's feeling more like a student film or something because of the way it jerks along.
I don't know whether to make apologies for it or boast how proud I am of it.
That is, I like the order of the parts I put together and some of the action scenes flow a little better, but the plot sort of jerks along at times and requires a leap of faith on the viewer's part.

An example: we now see Bane act menacing/crazy around the doctor but does not stab her. The scene plays well but there's really no explanation from that scene to how he manages to leave Hammer. Or for that matter where the doc is in between then and when she reappears in my new ending.
I like to think he overpowered her or she actually felt sorry for him and let him go. Either one of which feel possible with the recut of that scene. The thing is I need to do what I'm doing to make the film play how I want.

On the small scale there's even some lines of dialog I feel like swapping around, but it produces obvious continuity errors.
An example: The Merovingian would sit, eat all his olives, shake an empty glass and then suddenly finds some more olives in his glass to munch on.
The reason is in that scene I always thought he should give the long rambling speech about wanting the Oracle's eyes, and when he says "Yes? No?" cut in the lines from earlier when Trinity says "No" and Merovingian replies "I didn't think so but it doesn't hurt to ask." Then Trinity follows up that she doesn't have time for this sh#t. It's pretty funny to watch and looks great. It brings out the fact that he's really an ineffectual and silly man. But again, the olive crisis. This films is full of tough choices.

I think I'm going to sacrifice witty tweaks like that and only cause continuity trouble when it's unavoidable. I love the new cut of that scene though. Curse your olive sucking fetish!

Edit: Oh yeah, I've been emailing Womble's tech support back and forth. It looks like the same problem that cause the Xvid idea to go wonky may be the same cause of the lower quality re-encoded clips. The software can't tell the difference between 23.976 with 30 fps pulldown and true 30fps clips. When a re-encode is needed it does 30 fps. It looks bad and makes a hybrid video stream. Invisible to DVD players, death to an avi file.
Hopefully they'll come up with a fix shortly, if not I won't hold my breath (or the release) waiting for them.
Really, avoid MVW for major projects.
Post
#195822
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195822/action/topic#195822
Time
Um, good question. I could encode the full film at 30fps which is a waste of frame rate.
IVTC I understand can make crap of 24fps video while fixing the 30fps. (I'm actually a bit fuzzy on the proper handling of hybrid video).
Currently I'm seeing what kind of mess MVW makes doing 100% recode to 23.976. (Which stinks since MVW doesn't know the difference between true 30fps video and 24fps with pulldown flags).
This will be used for the Xvid only since hybrid video is invisible to DVD players. Cross your fingers, this has been a rough last few days.
Post
#195792
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195792/action/topic#195792
Time
Can anyone give me advice on building an Xvid on this? I've tested other videos and none are out of sync, just this beast.
The DVD is fine but I cannot convert it. The video and audio lengths are the same; there's no reason it should be doing what it's doing.
Googling is not turning up any useful advice. The closest I've gotten is the beginning and end in sync and the middle out of sync. Sigh.

Edit: Ugh, I got it. The movie is 95% 23.976 with pulldown. Anything encoded by womble is 29.97. It throws off the framerate....
Post
#195707
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195707/action/topic#195707
Time
State of the Onion.
It seems that only M2 clips are out of sync. When they appear in either of the 2 films I shifted them 1 frame. It LOOKS like that fixed all of the problems.
I didn't fully sit through all of M2, only 20 minutes of the beginning and end, which should be the proof enough.
I still want to sit through M3 once more since I'm not as in love with it as I am M2. Not because of sync, only flow of the movie (and possible audio bugs).

I'm TRYING mightily to get it on Pirate Bay, but the audio will not sync in the Xvid. I've tried raw ac3, I've tried resynching 14 ways to friday with VDubMod. I've used the raw mpv & ac3 files I've used rips from temp burned DVDs. I even installed Auto GordianKnot and pointed it at the finished DVD folder to see if automated software could take out user error. It will not sync.
The DVD is beautiful, but an Xvid seems impossible right now. One more idea left...

On the up side, if the Xvid wasn't this bad I would never have seen the subtle out of sync in the M2 clips since I wasn't looking for that.

Edit: Reinstalled Xvid codec and trying one final time. If that fails I think I might torrent the full DVD. It'll be slow, but I really want some feedback before I start burning and sending discs.
Post
#195554
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195554/action/topic#195554
Time
Ok, bad news. I had the xvid encoded and ready to upload but for some reason the vbr audio wouldn't sync. I've NEVER had the problem before.
In the process of hunting the problem down I noticed that the second film is about 1 frame out of sync.
I THINK I fixed it, but I'm not trusting anything right now. Unfortunately I now have to sit through the film again.
Not that the movie sucks, it's just I'm really tired of it.

It LOOKS like the problem is M2 has a slight audio delay. Which means both M2 and M3 needed to be tweaked.

Looks like another marathon for me. Sigh, this project won't die.

It looks like this might end up being an anniversary release after all, sorry guys.
Post
#195423
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195423/action/topic#195423
Time
I know the intro works w/o the voice over as well. It was added a while after I first cut it.
The problem I realized in my edit Neo does not get a chance to see the Oracle before fighting Smith who quotes "Everything that has a beginning has an end".
Ideally, Neo would be the one hearing her say it, but I just couldn't work it out.
There is of course no mistaking that it's very much the Oracle when you hear Smith say it, but now the audience is better clued in.
I was just hoping it wasn't cheesy.

International people: I think even though I'll be sending out DVDs I'll probably do an Xvid release which should be small enough for even the crappiest of internet speeds. This is largely because it'll meet with a larger audience and give those on the fence a chance to watch it before jumping into the pay it forward thing or getting stuck with a DVD they might not like.

Although the plan WAS to have the torrent out for the 7th Anniversary of the Matrix, it'll probably be up before then. At least you'll all be able to do a marathon to celebrate it or something.

When I see 3 films, a 7th anniverary, 2 suck-fests and two weeks some see providence, I see some random numbers to throw out at you. :-)

Edit: Ok to be clear on this, is anyone actually interested in a compressed (Xvid/mp3) version or are you all pretty much wanting DVD? I was sort of planning on having M2 up tonight. Besides it'd give all downloaders a chance to QC this for me in case I missed something before I send out final DVDs.
Post
#195393
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195393/action/topic#195393
Time
Link as promised: http://rapidshare.de/files/16337261/M3Intro.avi.html

Interstingly the audio was output in PCM right from MVW, then lame was used to mp3-ify it. You can hear pops at the audio edit points that can't be heard in the DD mix. Yet another reason not to go that route on the release. MVW's downmix protocols may just suck and Azid could be the better way to go. I'm finding most things about MVW kind of suck. I don't think I'll be using it anymore after this project.

Anyway, yes or no to the voice over?
Post
#195374
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195374/action/topic#195374
Time
Ok I take it back. M3H isn't so bad. It's just I don't think I'll ever be in love with that film no matter what anyone does to it. There's also the problem that I know the original plot too well and I'm watching it in that context. It's better than the original and I think that there is little else for me to do with it.

Just remember when watching it: forget what you know about the film. Characters won't necessarily be talking about what they use to be talking about in a scene.
There are a lot of vague conversations in this film that I've recut to be discussing different things.
Watch what you're seeing in context of what you've just seen. Make new inferences about what's happening.

Recompiling and reauthoring both films now. If the bugs that I've tweaked in M3 are fixed, then it's ready to go.

PM me if you are interested in a copy. The first 5 U.S. address will get copies if you are willing to pay forward. If you aren't one of the first 5 BUT are willing to torrent the movies, you go to the head of the line (even if you aren't in the U.S.). :-)

One last thing... I will post the new opening to M3 here later today. I'd like some opinions about the voice over. It feels a little too much like the movie's trailer or the theatrical Blade Runner or something. On the up side, it's kinda cool where it is and it provides an important line that comes into play later on (as you all will recognize.)
Post
#195365
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195365/action/topic#195365
Time
Sigh, ok I will reconsider a DVD release.

I watched M2 the other day and here's the interesting thing: I REALLY enjoyed the movie. It was something I hadn't experienced with that film before.

UNfortunately QCing M3 I was a bit disappointed with the experince (be aware I'm a bit of a fussbudget). It has a rough cut feel to it. You sort of have to fill in some gaps in your mind yourself. But of course that's really necessary since there is no footage of Trinity getting Neo's body and bringing him back from Zion, etc. Also there's footage I've cut in after the battle of Zion and of course everyone has no healing cuts or anything which seems odd. We can only assume time has passed and they have good medical care (remember Bane cut himself and didn't get medical treatment for them, so he would have those marks.) I'm sort of considering this 'the movie that could have been'. Sort of a concept fan edit film.

I'm sure EtM has great footage, but I've also been told by others that none of the footage would be very useful. The truth is I don't know and I wouldn't go back and add it at the late of a date. If someone else wants to do a super complete Matrix with deleted scenes and EtM cut in, I'd love to see it, but that is not what I'm doing.

The theme is to eliminate anything that seems jarring in relation to the first film (philosophically or tone-wise). Another name for this could be the happy ending cuts. There are fewer dead and a different mood at the end.

I'm going to see about tweaking M3 since maybe it was just me. When watching it (I had really high expectations after M2 came out so nicely).
Post
#195214
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195214/action/topic#195214
Time
For all one of you still reading me post to myself:

Matrix Reloaded has been fully QC'd with all bugs I could find squashed.

And then I started editing again

New opening sequence; I'm no longer ripping off the DeZionized intro. It's not LFotF.
It's actually more pertinent to the film than the original I was using. In fact it's referred to twice during the movie. It was so obvious once I had sat through the whole film again that it couldn't open any other way.

I've also decided NOT to distribute this via disc. For now there doesn't seem to be enough people to make PIF a reasonable system.

I'll QC Matrix Revolutions tonight. If all goes well, expect info on an Xvid torrent by this weekend of M2. I considered a DD5.1 audio track, but there were too many complaints on just the single scene for that to be well received. Besides if I keep it with mp3 (abr 128kbps) I can set the video bitrate high enough to be a reasonably good looking 700mb film.
Post
#195142
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195142/action/topic#195142
Time
Actually the Doctor Who analogy might not be so far out. If you were to take the sharper image and remove the color (converting it to grey scale), you could then use somethine like avisynth's mergechroma, mergeluma.

I've even used them with different aspect ratio sources before, you just tag on a resize to each clip to match them (with a bit of cropping as needed). It takes a bit of jiggery pokery to get them right, but it does work.

Like I said I don't know if you have anything like that for the mac.
Post
#194849
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/194849/action/topic#194849
Time
First post updated.
Except for deciding between two alternate endings I've built for the final film, it's all over but the QCing.

The problem is this: I'd like to cut Sati out of the end and finish with the Architect's "What do you think I am, human?" line. It's nice and strong.
But then there is no explanation for why there's clean blues in that scene. I've already learned that color tweaking to match Matrix green is damn hard.

If I add Sati back, and get her to fit in with my new plot, the question then is: if she isn't a program, just a gifted kid ala spoon bending baldie, would she be able to color tweak the sunrise?

Trust me this is probably the easiest part. I spent 2 days on 1 1/2 minutes of film at one point. I'm not kidding. Eliminating "zombies" has been the toughest thing. Hopefully you won't find any characters around that shouldn't be now.

Feel free to talk amongst yourselves.
Post
#194809
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/194809/action/topic#194809
Time
Discovered something intersting. Womble has an option enable by default to only re-encode ac3 at crossfades/fade-in/fade-outs. With that anything not altered is direct stream copied.
Sounds cool right? I mean otherwise you re-encode 100% of all audio which can have a negative effect. Someone with really good ears and good headphones can tell the difference.
The problem is it causes artifacts that sound like drop outs between the reencoded and stream copied clips. Someone with a $2.00 headphones and a tin ear can hear that. I wondered why it was doing that.
Looks like 100% audio re-encode for us.
Expect 1 more announcement today.
Post
#194509
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/194509/action/topic#194509
Time
I used like 2 bits of soundtrack so far and would rather have less smooth edits than try it again. There's sfx in the surrounds along with the music, the old music can't be stripped. Which means I only used it to help transition a few cuts where there was no music before so it sounds less abrupt. The problem is I need to be note for note perfect in the transition for soundtrack audio to movie audio. WAY TOO PAINFUL.

I guess a disclaimer should come now. Revolutions will be a little more rough looking/sounding than Reloaded only because of the extreme nature of the cuts (and my lack of talent). It should still be a fun movie.

So cutting the attack on the dock together, I removed all infantry and reload boys. This had the effect of making the battle more intense than before. I was trying to thin some action because I found it overwhelming in theaters.

Now this scene is several minutes of mech vs squid action and non-stop machine gun fire. I don't know if that's good or bad.