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Doctor M

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1-Feb-2005
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4-Dec-2025
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Post
#203332
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203332/action/topic#203332
Time
So everything else I've tried to do lately has failed.
That is:
To make it further look like Neo is being brought home from Machine City (there is no exterior shot long enough to use (or re-use)).
Additional of a voice-over or footage to explain that Neo is jacking in looking for the Oracle (too rushed of a pace or suffers from voice-over-overload).

There is still some hope for the audio clip of Keanu saying 'It's over' but I'm not getting my hopes up.

I have managed to clean up a few audio edits, removed the opening voice over, and extend Neo's jack-in before the Super Brawl to improve the pace and logic of events.
It's better, but still not completely what I want. I'm waiting for the DVD of the Watcher for the audio clip so if no further ideas present before than you'll just have to fill in a few blanks on your own when watching. The pace should still be entertaining.

Btw, I haven't trimmed the rave at the end... yet(?). Out of context it didn't feel too long, but I'll decide after I rewatch the film in it's entirety.
Post
#203016
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203016/action/topic#203016
Time
Can you give some examples of lines you would suggest Marvolo?

Currently just before Neo brains Smith/Bane in TRW, Smith/Bane says "It isn't over Mr. Anderson". If I cut that line, it's a bit jerky and looks a bit darker for Neo (the line seems to encourage him to finish it).
The problem is that it IS over, all Smiths are now defeated in my cut.
You can either surmise it's an empty threat or a bad edit. I was hoping to pop in the line "Yes it is" or "It's over" from Keanu when he swings. Constantine doen't have anything helpful (that I noticed).

[Edit]
Clip removed.
Post
#202988
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/202988/action/topic#202988
Time
So the current situation is this: I have editor's block.
I love the idea of showing Neo being brought home (explicitly) but there is no footage I can use to show it. I even tried flipping Horiz and Vert of a clip of a ship following the powerlines. But like just about every shot of Machine City it's too short (and looks funny). There's nothing long enough that can be used as an establishing shot.
I'm trying to think my way around this. And if I go this direction there's a few other supporting changes I need to make.

Also, I've got a line on a possible "it's over" line. The Watcher, according to an online script shows Keanu saying it (probably in a menacing tone). It's been a long time since I've seen it so I don't know. I should be able to get my hands on the film in about a week to check.
Post
#201966
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/201966/action/topic#201966
Time
Truthfully it could have been any ship. I just made it the Logos in my mind since I figured if it could bring Neo back it was at least still flying. It could be whatever they built from parts they could find of all the ships. Maybe a new ship where the 3 captains share responsibility.
It's not actually very critical.

I agree it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for them to be flying around with Neo, but I think it's going to be 'fill in your own answer' type thing. I can't come up with a better plan that I can actually pull off.

As far as the opening, it's the same Seraph scene just with the V.O. removed. The V.O. is now used a little bit later in the film (very similar to the alternate opening I posted).

I will allow for a trim to Zion. Editing and zipping through it, it's not long, but it shouldn't be 1-1/2 minutes.

So the complaint was that the transition from the ship to Neo/Trinity holding hands? I can tweak that a bit.
Post
#201834
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/201834/action/topic#201834
Time
I'm a bit confused what I'm doing now. As much as I'd love to make it look like they took the Hammer to rescue Neo and Trinity, the logistics are kind of crazy. If I was shooting the movie, that's exactly what I would do, it's great. But no matter how many calls I make, the cast just won't return my messages, the bastards. (Carrie-Anne went and brought up that restraining order again too.)

I had softened the crash of the Logos so you could believe they could fly her home, the same could not be done for the Hammer (too much would have to be cut). The Hammer was absolutely totalled by the end of the movie. To assume they could repair it well enough to fly it, pick up Neo and Trinity (assuming they could find them in Machine City not knowing where they were there), and wouldn't try to salvage the Logos just seems wrong in my head.
If you want to think that's what you're seeing, I'm all for it, I just lack the footage to make that happen so I'm not going to use a Machine City pass of the ship.

Could Trinity have dragged Neo back to the Logos, returned to Zion for minor repairs and then all go out patrolling with Neo on board because they didn't feel much like dancing? Yeah I can handle that.

I will make some other tweaks though. Not exactly as Han described, but the jack-in is a little more logical and less fast paced. I've also removed (sigh) the voice over at the opening for use later.

Han Solomente: was your complaint of the audio transition from the Rave to the ship shot, or the ship shot to the lab?
Post
#201472
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/201472/action/topic#201472
Time
Wow, thank you for the input.
I agree with a lot of what you've said and some of it is already taken care of, some I tried to convince myself was ok (even though I knew it wasn't).

Rethinking the opening with Neo looking for the Oracle, I've decided there isn't enough action to open the film, so I'll go back to the Seraph one.
I'm also going to move the hall scene (looking for the Oracle) to after Neo jacks in so we have a better explaination why he's gone in.
The extended jack in... check, if you blinked you missed the old one.
Trim the rave? Possibly, I haven't sat through it straight though in awhile so I haven't judged the pace, but it's likely to happen (sweaty dreadlock guy is first to go ).
I really intended to give the impression that you might actually be seeing the Logos at the end (Trinity would have brought Neo home) since the Hammer was seriously banged up (but the Logos only took moderate damage in my edit). But I actually like the idea of giving the impression that they went to retrieve Neo and Trinity in a hastily patched up Hammer... hmmm. I'll have to think about that.

Btw, would you be able to play a KVCD instead of Xvid? It's just a variation on the VCD standard, optimized for better quality and some filtering to improve compressibility. It's not 100% compatible with the VCD spec, but most stand alone DVD players are fine with it. It would also mean no one would have sync issues.

As far as the abruptness of the jack-in the only thing useful I found was Morpheus saying "The Oracle must be consulted" from M2, but he's using his speech voice so it sounds out of place. Hence I figure just showing him looking for the Oracle may fill the lack of audio explaination.
Post
#201277
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/201277/action/topic#201277
Time
I keep second guessing everything I'm doing now and putting off working on it.

I'm down to two or three clips that I either need to put in (at the expense of either pace or (possibly) continuity) or cut completely out.
For those that saw M2, how would you feel about the addition of Seraph being Smithed at the end as well? I liked the snappiness I gave the ending that the original cut lacked and I'm afraid adding more will weight it down. If I don't move this clip there, it's gone from my edits (not that it's critical to the story).

Treeswing: If you are referring to watching M3, I really really mean it when I say there are some real problems that I'm working on for v2. Hence the new lead-in. You may want to wait for the new version before saying 'ick' to that one (though the general order of events won't change and the last hour is pretty much set).

Btw, I'm thinking down the road when I pull the Xvid torrents, I may try again with a couple of KVCDs. I'm not really a huge fan of the VCD thing, but mpg is non-interleaved and shouldn't have the sync problem the avi file has. I've seen surprisingly good things with KVCDs and it should be compatible with many/most standalone DVD players.

As far as the Sati attack. I don't think he meant literally about the gang rape thing. It's just a matter that the dialog is icky enough to be misinterpreted (especially if taken out of context).
Post
#200974
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/200974/action/topic#200974
Time
So here's the deal. For those of you that have seen the Xvid releases or been closely following the latest ups and downs know of my grotesque failure with M3. My latest plan is to take the Smithification of Seraph (formerly the lead-in to M3) and tack it on to the end of M2 (just before the Oracle's assimilation).

M3 now has a new lead off that smooths out the plot of the film and timing of events. The day/night cycles within the Matrix make a little more sense now as well.
The question is: does this work and does it feel right?
I'm not sure anymore so here is another clip (4.9mb) for those that care to give me input: http://rapidshare.de/files/17942606/M3Intro.avi.html

Right now, all the opinions I can get are important since I feel this edit slipping away into the world of nevermind.
Post
#199946
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/199946/action/topic#199946
Time
LMAO, I hated that line on it's own, it's been but now... omg you have poisoned my brain.

Treeswing really got me thinking, I'll be attempting to cut ghost, angels, etc from the Oracle speech again. I don't know how it'll work in the context of the rest of the film, but I never liked it.

Edit: Bah, no matter what I trim of the conversation it doesn't stand on it's own if you don't know what was cut.

You need her talking about programs acting properly. You need her talking about programs to be deleted (because that tells of exiles and the source (where he must go)). If you cut what's in between out, you have to know what programs hacking other programs means or understand about programs that aren't acting properly (which except for Smith we haven't heard of/seen before).
It's a little too tightly integrated.

The best I've gotten so far:
O: The ones doing their job, doing what they were meant to do are invisible, you'd never know they were here.
The other ones, well...
O: Usually a program chooses exile when it faces deletion.
N: Why would a program be deleted?
...

It cuts out the bad ideas, but it seems like an abrupt transition and leave you to fill in some pretty big blanks. You'd need to understand she means exiled programs stand out as not belonging (i.e. not invisible). It seems a pretty big leap when a couple clang-y sentences can fill it in.
For now the ghost, etc. will stay unless someone can chime in with a good answer about this scene.
Post
#199440
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/199440/action/topic#199440
Time
The bastard/you would know mom I cut for two reasons: I didn't want to overdub the original actress with the new one and I felt it was a bit out of character. She seems like a tough person to upset. Considering she knows the future, it's understandable. Hence the tone of the scene is now more of her almost goading Smith rather than resigned to a fate.
An establishing shot was discussed, but I couldn't locate anything usable.
The smoothness may be a result of frame rates shifting in the Xvid since I never noticed it on the DVD. I did redo many edits in M2 (including that scene) with cleaner encoding (without the editing software making crap of it.) So it'll be cleaner but not different in content.

Keep the input coming. Since I've yet to actually mail a disc it's not to late to fix anything seriously borked.

As far as M3, please hold comments if you watch it (at least about anything that takes place up until Neo/Trinity leave the Hammer). I'm redoing the first 30 minutes (or I'm saying I am anyway). I must have watched myself into a coma or something, I can't believe I thought it was ok originally.
Post
#199414
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/199414/action/topic#199414
Time
Glad you liked it. I love the constructive input. Let me tell you what I was thinking about with these decisions:

I removed the bits about the other Ones because I hated it. I almost removed the rebuilding Zion, but it still works. This is the first and only time this has happened. The Matrix up until now has just been building towards it. No one says it's happened before, it's the deal the machine are offering them for survival of human kind. It's the remainder of the equation, another form of control. The Machines planned for it from the start. It deflates the whole prophesy. You're reading what you remember into the dialog. Don't forget Zion is absolutely swarming, the machines would never accept that. It's such a hard to accept offer to start with, Trinity's life just pushes the balance way over into the "go to hell" category.

You had me going for a minute, I had to double check: at 1 hr 20 minutes or so, Neo does ask Trinity to stay out of the Matrix...

I really wanted to cut the programs misbehaving, it seem so cheesy listening to it again. The problem is the convoluted conversation finishes with "the source, where the path of the one must end." Without that you can't explain the point of the films.
Cutting it meant no explanation for the Merovingian and his superskilled freaks too. I agonized over it and tried some permutations of an edit there, but I couldn't get the Oracle to talk sense without it. It was a trade-off. Just cover your ears and hum when she mentions aliens.

Orgasmic dessert. I always thought it was one of the Merovingian's few redeeming scenes. Sexy and fun. It also fills the plot in between him going to the bathroom and Persephone being pissed at him for cheating on her.

I agree about the removing the bullet thing, but hey... it DID kill her. She coughed up blood right afterwards and died. Just cause he's the One doesn't mean he knows medicine.

The sync problem is the variable frame rates. It's fine on the DVD. I used AutoGK for the encoding, only because I manually did it with VirtualDubMod and Razorlame several times (not knowing the framerate to be the problem). I finally gave up hoping an automated program might be more successful. I personally would have been happier with better quality on the Xvid too.

The DVD aren't out yet which brings me to the point...
I'm not sending them for a bit. I've spent all day today with cards listing scenes from M3 and rearranging them.
Don't watch M3 unless you want to see a rough cut! I'm embaressed by how bad it really turned out. The first half-hour will be redone to play smoother. I think the middle is perfect and the end, while ok, is about as good as I can make it. The beginning is plain jerky and things happen inexplicably. I considered yanking the torrent but I'll re-release 2.0 when it's done. Things are just delayed... again.

Cheers again. I'm happy for the input. There's just so much to the films, I don't think I'll ever be 100% that I've got all of the intricacies perfect. I've developed real respect for the writers. What seems to be overstuffed drivel is actually all watch cogs. It's damn hard to remove one and keep the damn thing ticking.
Post
#199127
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/199127/action/topic#199127
Time
So has anyone else seen Revolutions and felt it's not being all that it could be?
I tried to do a final QC tonight but was completely dissatisfied with the first half hour.
Neo's reason for jacking in seems tenuous, the Matrix being overrun with Smiths seems a little too quick (but could almost be believed), the transition into the rebuilt Matrix seems a little too quick, there's a nasty sound before Bane gets confronted at the conference table (I can't get it out because it hits over his first sentence), Neo in his room has that abrupt looking up with meaningful music (for no particular reason).
I'm feeling like I should rip this apart and re-cut it, but I don't know where to go with it.
I do like the whole Battle of Zion and the Hammer coming in hot. I think that came out 10x better than the original.
I'm not sure I like Bane's last line of "It isn't over Mr. Anderson" since it's really an empty threat.
The end although not perfect isn't so bad, and probably can't be done much better without some serious added CG work.

I'm low on ideas and horribly burned out on this project. I think I'm going to sleep on it. I think the problem is Reloaded came out far above my expectations and this is somewhat below it making it seem far worse.
I've been toying with the idea of scrapping the complete retooling of the plot and just doing something similar to Reloaded: editing for themes and ideas, not the story. Unfortunately that still leaves Trin dead and Neo probably dead. I just don't want that.
Post
#199039
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/199039/action/topic#199039
Time
Nick, for now the first 5 people have been picked to receive these directly. Hopefully one of them will get in contact with you shortly (although the discs won't actually be in the mail until Monday or Tuesday (hopefully)). If no-one contacts you in another day or two, PM me and I'll give you the names.

Btw, anyone out there handy with the cover art thing? I can do it, but me terrible eye for color and lack of skills with art software tends to make it a prolonged project with so-so results.
The Matrix font is fairly common around the net and would probably come in useful. Any offers?

Also, proofed Reloaded again today. I can't believe as much as I've worked and watched these films I'm still enjoying them (/me pats self on back). Tweaked a couple points to clean up audio transitions.
I'd love to do something for the knock on the door by Smith at the very beginning (the shadow lengthens and then KNOCK, it's fairly abrupt). I tried several alternatives for cutaways and such, but everything comes off worse rather than better. In my estimation it might be the worst edit in the whole film.
Ok, will start proofing Revolutinons again later and burning discs tomorrow. I am a perpetual optimist.
Post
#198703
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/198703/action/topic#198703
Time
The opening was actually the last script change and edit I made. I had the whole film finished was QCing it and thats when it hit me how important it is to the context of the film.

Neo talks about it, Trinity refers to it, and even Smith can't stop thinking about it. It's fairly central to the film and yet if you hadn't seen the first movie, you'd be completely in the dark.

I'm glad you enjoyed the first installment and I really hope the final part is as well received.
I'm not as pleased with it, but I can't fit it into my vision any better. It is a fairly agressive edit.
Post
#198617
Topic
.-The Matrix Hacked-..:Completed:.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/198617/action/topic#198617
Time
I finished converting Revolutions to pure film. I finally had to do some really cheesy things like duplicating a couple of frames to avoid edit points that wouldn't work. You probably won't see a thing. The funny thing is one edit point I kept fighting with because the letterbox bars shifted slightly turned out to be on the source DVD and NOT my fault.

While I was at it I tweaked the audio in a few places just to avoid the possibility any pops. It should be fine all around.

So what am I saying? What I'm saying is if you get over to Demonoid.com and ThePirateBay.org you will find that the Revolution will be Bitified!
Cheers to you all who have been silently watching my anguish and put up with my bitching. Another day or two and the DVDs go out as well.
If anyone who formerly told me they wanted discs has changed their minds, please let me know ASAP.

Btw, I have noticed a slight sync problem in the Matrix 2 Xvid. Trust me that is not on the DVD.
In fact the Xvid of Revolutions is pretty badly out of sync by the end. As a result I balanced the frame rate (23.978 fps) so the beginning and end are bang on and the middle will be slightly out of sync. I probably should have done the same with M2, but there was a lot less problem there.

It would seem even with 100% film source and 100% direct stream copy, Womble still screws around with the frame rate. At least for all the extra work the re-encoded scenes are a million times better looking and there is no stuttering on stand alone units.

Consider the Xvids a taste, but if you want sync, you need to go DVD. Sorry.