Darth Raditz

NeverarGreat said:

So then I thought that there is one other reason why Lando would be involved with Luke chasing Ochi across the galaxy, and that was if it had something to do with Luke’s saber. This would complete the whole ‘story for another time’ moment in TFA while also being relevant to Finn because he was there when that story was originally teased.

This. I’ve been meaning to post in the radical ideas thread that Maz’s line in TFA should be changed from “Another time” to “Ask Lando” or the like, and this would bring everything full circle.

As for other changes, it doesn’t have to be a lie, Rey Palpatine doesnt have to be a lie, just a truth “from a certain point of view.” Rey being inducted into the Sith cult would fit closer with the idea of Palpatine being a villain specifically for a Rey Nobody ve4r4sion of the story. If you want to future proof it, you can bring the line about Rey being his “granddaughter” up to his first meeting with Kylo, then when Rey’s on Exegol, you change Palpatine’s line from “It is your birthright to rule…here” to “I adopted you to rule…here”

Smudger, I sent you a PM regarding links for this and Ahsoka when possible. Thanks!

I was moreso referring to the line itself, not trying to overdub Luke’s line when you can see his lip movements. It’d more be a line that’s said offscreen, or transitions from the shot of Luke to the shot of Rey before the line is finished. If we’re solely talking about the next updates of Ascendant, I’d wait until the V4 changes are applied to the Rey Nobody version before trying something like that.

Is it ever said that Jedi become omniscient when they become Force Ghosts. Even then, going with the idea that Palpatine’s mere existence is a sickness in and of itself, it would make sense that Luke would go nowhere near anything related to Palpatine and thus wouldn’t know for sure. You just need to change “Because you’re a Palpatine” to “Because of Palpatine?”

Reconciling Rey Palpatine & Rey Nobody sounds good in theory, but it still reads to me that Rey being a Palpatine is the truth instead of, at best, ambiguous. If we’re going with Rey being a clone, then it’s fine, but maybe Finn needs more definitive dialogue about Palpatine having lied.

If you want to undercut the granddaughter idea and plant the idea of their being more to what he says, you could have Palpatine say upfront to Kylo that Rey’s his granddaughter:

Kylo Ren : What could you give me?

Emperor Palpatine : Everything. My Empire was not defeated…it was preserved…frozen at my command. And now…awakened. The might of the Final Order will soon be ready. It will be yours…if you kill my granddaughter.

Kylo Ren : (Confused look)

Palpatine : (smug smile)

NeverarGreat said:

The solution now appears obvious: Kylo Ren must be a force of good. Is there evidence for this? Yes, in fact. He is secretly drawn to the light, and all characters know how conflicted he appears. It takes only a little more exposition to establish that he has secretly been attempting to destroy the Sith for his entire life, ever since he learned of Palpatine during his training with Luke. In order to get close to Snoke, Han had to die. In order to find Palpatine, Snoke had to be destroyed. Ben followed the ways of the Jedi, divesting himself of attachments to all those whom he was afraid to lose and forging a new identity for himself as Kylo Ren, a false identity taken merely to complete what Vader could not and destroy the Sith once and for all.

I really like this idea in theory, but I wonder if there’s too much going against it. If Kylo were good all along, why would he consider Finn’s actions that of a traitor? What is his obsession with having Anakin’s blue lightsaber anything but a sense of entitlement? Why was Luke so concerned in the darkness rising in Kylo that he contemplated killing him in his sleep after “Snoke had already turned his heart?” Why did Snoke say “as [Kylo] grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise?” (Then again, Snoke was wrong about a lot of things). Why did he double down on letting old things die & destroying the rebels while also snapping at Rey for still holding on and telling her she’s nothing? Why did he sacrifice total victory over the Resistance for a chance to kill what he thought was Luke other than out of vindictive pettiness? Why is he so adamant about killing “the last Jedi” & saying he’ll destroy Rey to get under Luke’s skin?

To bring an idea from the Duel of the Fates script, maybe Luke’s been communicating with Kylo between movies/at the beginning of Episode IX. Saying things like “I know what you’ve been trying to do, but you can’t do it this way.” You can also always redub his lines with Rey with phrases like “You asked me why I killed my father: to draw him out” or “You think you belong to the Light, Rey, but you don’t.”

Love all of this, a great way to crystalize Rise of Skywalker in a way that truly doesn’t contradict anything that came before. As far as establishing Palpatine’s most loyal admirals fleeing, feels like the easiest place would be to put it in an opening crawl…meaning it’s time to once again rewrite Starlight’s opening crawl for two pages! XD

“Snoke was the only strand-cast who played Palpatine’s game: causing strife in the galaxy and destroying the Skywalker legacy. But you and I are more than that legacy, Rey. Let’s destroy the past and make our own fates.”

(removes helmet)

“You know what you need to do. You know.”

"I know.

I like this dialogue, since it fills most of the holes in the movie and gives Rey’s character more of an edge. My only qualm is that it doesn’t explicitly address why Palpatine’s followers stopped the process.

Obviously, we need to make a list of thematic & plot issues and see which ones are worth prioritizing (obviously, prioritizing themes over plot, but still).

Looking over old post-TLJ fan theories, one idea I saw floated is that before Rey was born, her parents scavenged some Sith artifacts on Jakku, not knowing how much they were worth. Maybe they sold the Sith blade, and Ochi tracked it back to them. If you want to add onto that, maybe Rey’s parents were loyal Imperial Officers, but were forced into poverty after the battle of Jakku with no way off the planet.

Minor break from the big picture stuff, but what about replacing Finn’s teasing of Poe about being a spice runner. Muting the lines would just be awkward and cutting altogether would hurt the pacing. Something along the lines of “From spice runner to Dreadnought slayer? Is there nothing you can’t do?”

I really love Nev’s ideas on the Sith Throne & the “Dark Chosen One” prophecy, so I took a crack at rewriting Kylo’s dialogue without directly contradiciting TLJ. I wound up watching the movie, which helped in figuring out the dialogue’s flow:

“Rey….wherever you are…You are hard to find.”

“You are hard to get rid of.”

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it…I needed you to see it…who you are. I know the rest of your story. Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“The Jedi have a story…a prophecy, really. About the Chosen One.”

“Don’t!”

“Bringing balance to the Force at the cost of peace.”

“I don’t want this!”

“The Sith have prophecies, too.”

“No!”

(Rey & Kylo cross blades)

“My family…see them!”

(Rey sees flashes of the prior movies, specifically the Skywalkers suffering.)

“Palpatine…always the planner.”

“Stop talking.”

“Rey, please…you have to know.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“Your parents did you a kindness if you think about it. You were spared the fate of so many children. Instead of becoming a stormtrooper, you got to make your own choices. And yet, you may not have any choice at all.”

(The Vader monument gets smashed.)

“So that’s where you are. You know why the Emperor’s come out of hiding. I’ll come tell you.”
…
(In the hangar) Kylo continues:

“You need to know the truth. The future depends on it.”

“Tell me.”

“The First Order scoured the galaxy’s children, Rey. To find the Chosen One who would destroy the Skywalkers. And it turns out that’s you.”

“Luke sacrificed himself for you. My mother’s living on borrowed time. And only now, with all of the pieces in place, Palpatine makes his revival known. If you kill me, then the Sith will be restored. But we can stop it…together. And take the throne.”

(Removes his helmet)

“You know what you need to do. You know.”

“I know.”

True, the real dice are most likely still on the Falcon, but it’s equally as possible that Leia has the dice at the time of TROS for sentimental reasons. The dice are recognizable imagery of the ST/Disney Canon in general (despite being a background element in the OT) & I’d prefer an original identity as opposed to nostalgia callbacks, personally.

Finally got a chance to look at the new scene. It works well, though I agree with Kumo that the last “Ben” from Leia isn’t needed.

I floated this on the radical changes thread, but is there any way we can change Han’s medal to the Falcon dice? At the very least, it would help distance the film away from OT nostalgia, which it desperately needs imo.

Surprised it took me this long to mention, but years ago Nando v Movies made a whole video about how Phase 2 needed restructuring so that the world had more tension to it. It would be a full blown editing project of multiple movies, but if it worked it’d certainly be worthwhile:

Marvel Phase Two is in the Wrong Order

Personally, I would place Shang-Chi right before WandaVision, since it accomplishes everything you said it does, but it’s stinger also helps better frame some character continuity that starts in WandaVision & continues into The Marvels.

As for Quantumania, without getting into spoilers, you definitely want to put it before Loki Season 2. With Daredevil, Forbidden Marvels has a solid fanedit that cuts through the chaff of Season 1 of the show.

I’d love to check these out once all four movies are available. Sounds so exciting!

I just realized: Why not replace the shot from TROS of Leia clinging to Han’s medal with the shot from TLJ with her holding Han’s dice? It’s something that means more to the Sequel Trilogy rather than being a callback, & it further sets up the idea of Leia summoning Han’s force ghost for Ben later on.

I absolutely love the idea of the Exegol Throne being a powerful Sith artifact with power over the dead. Who about taking a few of the Sith cultist & putting notable Sith/Dark Jedi in their hoods to imply they’re unwillingly brought back from dead (Maul, Dooku, Ventress, Snoke, etc.). Show that Palpatine’s not the only person who was affected, just that he had the most will to take the operation over.

Anyone have a link for this? I tried reaching out directly to Dig to no avail.

Deleted, realized I already had access to this edit

For the redux version, I know you’ve said elsewhere that you wouldn’t try to artifically lengthen the gap between Din & Grogu’s separation. My only counter to that is that, even with the backpedaling done by Lucasfilm, TBoBF happened one year after Mando season 2. Maybe after Luke takes Grogu & Boba kills Bib Fortuna you could insert a “One Year Later” text in the “far far away” font?

I’m tempted to ask for a link, but I kinda want to wait for your redux versions of Episodes 2 & 3 before getting into 4. Though, maybe I can just get the link now & not worry about downloading three big files later.

Since Mando Ep 2 is going to be moderately restructured due to Mando Season 3, I figure I’d give my piece here as it’s most relevant on this thread.

I do agree that while giving Grogu away is an ending rather than a beginning, it still feels like the right move to bump that to Mando Ep 4. As someone who didn’t either Luke coming to save the day in Mando Season 2 (which honestly made me stop Mando Ep 2 at Grogu’s capture because I knew what came next) or the reversal of giving up Grogu, moving both of those moment into one packaged narrative lets me pretend that separating Din & Grogu only for their coming back together to help save the day in Mando Ep 3TBoBF.

As for ending Mando Ep 2 with Grogu’s capture, it’s still a tad TESB-esque, even if it doesn’t have the same weight to it. Empire works because Luke thinks he’s going to get trained & have everything he needs to fight Vader, only to be curb-stomped & have Vader drop that bombshell on him. The closest thing to that moment would be Boba revealing to Din that he & his father Jango were indeed Mandolorians, so there’s a type of brotherhood between Boba & Din that promises they’ll indeed rescue Grogu. That scene & ending with Gideon with the Darksaber is a decent enough ending for Ep 2, and then rescuing Grogu in Ep 3 is your raid on Jabba’s palace

smudger9 said:

STF78 said:

smudger9 said:

szopman said:

In the end, you’re going to move the Luke Skywalker stuff to this film ? Or you re gonna leave it as a part of Ep III?

Leaving it in episode 3. I’m currently mulling over a radial change to EPs 2 and 3 to take out more Boba stuff and shuffle things around.

Are you able to give us any more info on the potential changes to episodes two and three?

Episode 2 is a bit of an issue because it now has some important story elements missing.

1. Carson Teva’s interactions with Mando/Nevarro.
2. The cloning facility on Nevarro.
3. Elspeth Morgan and the Beskar spear.

These elements were cut to stick to a reasonable runtime and allow Luke’s appearance to be the finale. However, these elements have become very important.

My current thinking is to put these elements back into episode 2 and have the movie end on a cliffhanger with Gideon’s capture of Grogu. (Like ESB).

The rescue can then be the opening of Episode 3 and the sudden decision to capture Pershing can be explained in the opening crawl. I will then cut Boba’s story down to a bare minimum and have episode three to focus on Mando and Grogu.
Grogu’s training scenes will be intercut with Mando’s journey. Mando will not travel to meet Grogu, Grogu will make his decision and then head off to find Mando.

The main negative is that Luke’s first appearance begs to be the finale of a movie, not the end of the opening act, but this would allow all the important story beats to be included.

This sounds very exciting & likely the best course of action to take. It lets you end Mando Episode 2 on more of a TESB feel & give more focus to Mando Episode 3 being about Dinn & Grogu finding themselves only to realize they still need each other (plus seeds the Boba stuff for Episode 3 better). If I understand correctly, that means Grogu will be joining in the final fight? As long as you keep in them actually reuniting in the midst of battle, that’s all I care about.