This looks amazing Acbagel! Fantastic work. I can’t wait to see this one.
IMO for the hobbit there are two categories, there is no definitive edit, regardless of what people will ever tell you, plus most people are bias and only like the edits they’ve seen so they just stick to what they know.
1: The 3 films to 2 films style (or even, 3 films to just 3 shorter films) is the first category. This includes the Arkenstone edit as you said, the Chris Hartwell edit which came out this year, and a great many others. I haven’t seen any of them so I wouldn’t know much about these, but in summary, these edits focus on just making the story better, with less attention to the original book. They are usually 2 films or 3 films, so still greatly expand upon the book.
But the problem is IMO, even if you say, “well I don’t care about the book, so maybe this 1st category is for me!” the reality is that a lot of sideplots and new characters that people keep in this category of edits can still feel unnecessary, or even distracting, because let’s face it, Tolkien knew how to write a story. It all just depends though, some 3 in 2 edits are better than others depending on what sideplots they keep. I couldn’t be sure on which is the best of this style of edit though. It comes down to personal preference, do you prefer a longer story that takes a lot of creative liberties, or would you like just the essentials in telling Bilbo’s/the Company’s story, which at the same time, is more like the book.
2: The second category is the 3 in 1 edits. First, to get this out of the way - Some people do turn the trilogy into a single 2-3 hour movie, but they’re just too short to be a definitive edit, because they really should cover every plot point of the Hobbit. Like sure there can be near perfect 2-3 hour edits that are fun to watch, but they just can’t be ranked above edits that do cover the entire written story, being short leaves plotholes and can mess with pacing. But, I will say the Spence edit is an exception, it’s 3.5 hours and is really good so definitely consider it, but I personally think that skipping over Beorn and still having Radagast detract from its ability to be at the very top of the list, I mean cmon, you gotta have beorn. So that leaves the 4-4.5 hour sweet spot. It has the same benefits as category 1, being that it’s less silly, less distractions, and a better story, BUT it also is now “book accurate” because 4 hours (more or less) is the runtime required to tell the full story of the Hobbit, as read in the book. Anything longer is unnecessary and just “extra” (not that it’s necessarily bad, but you don’t need it), while anything less just means the story is moving too fast and misses out on key parts from the book. For context, a 4 hour edit is in the same ballpark of length as the LOTR extended edition movies, so this runtime fits perfectly.
Now, I can speak more on category 2 as I’ve worked on my edit which is 4 hours and based of the book for over a year, especially because I’ve researched every other popular book edit. One popular 4 hour edit is the Bilbo edition, which I would consider checking out, but I haven’t seen it in a while so I can’t write much on it, but he does have an entire website with all the details. Now finally, the most popular Hobbit book edit you’ll hear about is the Maple edit which I do enjoy, but unfortunately, like many other edits, I wouldn’t be able to put it as the definitive edit because of the simple fact that it was made 4 years ago and missing out on a ton of new techniques people have discovered since then. Also, some of the technical editing could improved, and there are still fatal flaws, such as, when scenes like this https://youtu.be/D6LDiJK4W-w?t=48 and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-LTG2LpJDk are still in it, or how you still see Smaug break out of Erebor covered in gold, jump cutting from troll caves to Rivendell, the odd handling of the Azog plot, dumb scenes with Alfrid, stuff like Dain headbutting Orcs with helmets, I just can’t call it the definitive edit with these things, sure there’s arguments for why some of these parts are “needed” but people have removed them/fixed and effectively told the same story, with the same accuracy, and the same emotional impact. Regardless, the Maple edit deserves its respect and props for being an amazing edit no doubt. I would put it in my top 5, even top 3. Another 2 good book edits are JXeditor’s and TheNameLessEditors, but I just think the technical editing still needs to be refined before they could be put near the very top, obviously they follow the book, they do their job, but there’s points where you can tell things have been fan-edited.
So that leads me to the edit I’ve worked on, which I have a trailer for here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vko4eecNkuc which I truly think is the definitive edit of the Hobbit for me. The “for me” part is important. Everyone has a different opinion, the Hobbit trilogy is extremely convoluted and complicated to edit with so many factors. It could be the definitive edit for some people, but for some, maybe they miss stuff like Radagast or the expanded sideplots. Personally, my edit in the 4 hour category is a balance of book accuracy, professional editing, very occasional creative liberties here and there straying from the book for storytelling (but not as much as the 3 in 2 edits), being closer to LOTR, and just aiming to tell Bilbo’s story effectively. I have received plenty of feedback which I have used, all documented in the update log to show how the edit has improved over the year, thanks to the community, so that means at the moment I have no complaints from people who have watched it in full, but anyone is welcome to try to change that if there’s something I mightve missed.
My Favorite Edits
- M4 Edit (I mean cmon, I spent over a year on it how can it not be my favorite 😃 )
- Maple Edit
- Bilbo Edition
- Arkenstone Edition / Chris Hartwell edit / Original 2-film structure edit (These 3 are the longer category 1 edits, and it’s hard for me to rank as I’m no expert but they are all really good)
- Spence Edit
Honorable mention: NameLessEditor’s version, just needed to be more technically refined but it was so ambitious in its book accuracuy, and a huge inspiration.
As for LOTR, the definitive edits… are PJ’s extended edits in my opinion. Yes there’s minor things I might change, and if someone were to make a very careful and conservative edit, it could be better, but LOTR reached an amazing balance of book accuracy + creative liberties, so any edit that aims for “even more book accuracy” might be a little too much, now I could be wrong, I havent seen those edits, maybe they are relatively conservative, but as a huge Middle Earth fan, a 4 hour fan edit of the hobbit + the 3.5-4 hour official extended LOTR movies are my go to in a marathon. I will say I would trust Hal9000 with a revised LOTR edit made in 2020 for slightly more book accuracy and small fixes here and there, I think he had a project like that but it’s really old and unfinished, he should pick it back up though. But both hal’s and kerr’s old projects, as of right now, are pretty much the only LOTR edits worth watching for a full experience of the entire trilogy (I believe there are some fun ones that just follow certain characters but it misses the main story). But I wouldn’t call them definitive, because I’m sure they’d change or improve a ton of their old work if they started again today.
PJ’s extended edits? can you link me to em? (also ur edit of the hobbit is my definitive watch of those movies) great work
I think @sidshady12 is referencing Peter Jackson’s official Lord of the Rings extended editions. To watch a LotR edit you should own these anyway, so the recommendation is watch what you have, combined with the M4 book edit of The Hobbit; a combination I also recommend myself. I started with the Maple Edits version of the Hobbit, which was great, but the M4 edit builds on that success in my opinion, and is the definitive “book edit”.
I’d certainly be interested to see an edit like this. I’m still working through Season 2 (so late to the party), but it’s very clear where each arc starts and stops. Having them broken out into individual arcs as a seamless package would be a nice alternative to just binging the series in order.
My preferred order at the moment is TFA: Starlight, TLJ: Rekindled and TROS: Ascendant (yours). That may change when Jar Jar Bricks and sherlockpotter release their versions, which will no doubt force me to choose between the two haha.
Is my prefered order too.
+1
Definitely an interesting project. A good set of proposed changes and edits to combine the source materials.
I would say that, for me, keeping Otah Gunga city in would be my preference if at all possible. The cinematography of the approach is beautiful and I also feel like its missing in edits that cut that section; it’s one of the reasons Spence’s edit is one of my favourites for TPM.
I do like the intent to include some Yoda’s battle elements in AoTC and RoTS. This is one area I felt Spence maybe trimmed too much for my tastes, but I fully understand why that was done for the vision of that project.
I look forward to seeing further updates as this progresses!
I’m keen to see the Younglings’ Crystals ark considering you’ve got the Younglings vs Hondo ark completed! But that could just be me haha
I would agree with this. It was one of those episodes I always found interesting. While it’s a little transparent, it still shows more of the Jedi philosophy in an enjoyable manner. That, and I’m a sucker for lightsaber lore, haha.
If I remember right, Rebels never uses subtitled language, even for characters we haven’t ever seen using Basic before. But who cares! It’s your edit buddy. It sounds like a nice touch, and honestabe’s idea is a good one.
I think this was generally due to the younger target audience, and works well in that context. I also agree that a little bit of native language thrown in for flavour would be a nice touch, given the aims and direction of the project. The concept gives me Firefly vibes when they slip into Chinese to utter curses or frustration.
I really enjoyed this edit, thank you Smudger. The chronological structuring helped a lot in my opinion, and certainly coming at it from the angle of “this is all there is, how does it best fit as a prequel” worked wonders. Of the edits I’ve watched so far, this has been the one that’s landed best for me, and should definitely be watched by anyone trying to find their standard Acolyte version for their collection. I’ve still got some more to try, but I can absolutely see this version working for a lot of people given the misgivings of the Acolyte I’ve seen generally.
There’s some minor trims I’ve considered, more from the perspective of wondering if they’d work. There’s two during Episode 5 that have always stuck out to me as concepts; first, a slight trim to the split-blade reveal to remove the initial split, so the action flows from Jecki’s attack > Qimir’s block stance > three impalements > Qimir’s face & split-saber reveal > reconstructing hilt. That might add more surprise to Jecki’s death, but still explain the split-saber concept as we see it being reconstructed.
The second is to trim out Qimir panicking trying to remove Pip from his back. I think he’d be more likely to realise the Umbra Moth attack is coming and simply prepare for for it, and deal with it, rather than panicking. He handles it fairly confidently otherwise.
I rather enjoyed this edit. I was glad to have more of the Baylan/Shin stuff kept in as that’s often trimmed too much for my tastes as they were my favourite aspects of the original material. The VFX work is incredible, particularly the World Between Worlds section.
The restructuring of the opening act works very well from a story perspective, but feels a little clunky in practice, particularly surrounding Morgan’s rescue and the arrival of Baylan, Shin & Morgan at the Henge. Also, Huyang’s AI lines could use another pass in my opinion; content wise they work, but they are a little too far removed from David Tennant’s admittedly extraordinary delivery and stick out a bit too much.
Overall I think this will become my go-to version, despite the minor quibbles. I do hope for v2 one day that tidies up the little loose ends.
I’ve always wanted to do something with Resistance in the same vein as Clone Wars Refocused or Rebels Recut. Alas, life has got in the way of even remotely starting said project, but I am glad to see Resistance get some attention. It was a series that got better and found its feet after rocky beginnings. I’m looking forward to seeing what you’ve done with it.
There’s a spreadsheet? I’ve been using one of my own, tracking the whole saga with various fan-edits and Blu-ray rips logged, with versions where applicable. Whenever I see a new version come up on this thread I highlight it on the spreadsheet to grab at the next opportunity 🤣
I can’t say I’m not a little disappointed at the news of the cancellation, although hardly surprised. While it’s clear the show had issues, many issues, the core premise was interesting enough to pursue. I was looking forward to seeing more of the Qimir/Plagueis arc, and with the right approach to continual improvement, could’ve been readily salvaged.
This sounds great! Could I please get a link?
I’m of the opinion that quality trumps quantity. The Mandalorian was a landmark moment, it had the whole world invested in Star Wars again. When it came out the attention to detail, quality and presentation was clear. As they’ve tried to latch onto that success and spin-up more and more concurrent projects they’ve all suffered in some way on the quality front, with Andor’s first season being the standout exception.
I’d like to see a return of a focused approach; tell a story, move on to the next one. The limited series idea has merit vs. films, but it has to be a script written for the format. If the story requires a film format, have the guts to stick to it, even if it’s a Disney+ only release. I’d much rather one quality project a year than three or four mediocre or compromised ones.
This finale has cemented the feelings I’ve had throughout this season; the story is there, and is a great concept, but poorly executed by dragging it out into eight episodes. There’s enough hooks in the finale that I do want to see a second season continue it on, but I’m very much looking forward to a fanedit version of season one that sorts out the pacing and flow.
I’ve just rewatched TPM & AotC for the first time in a while. Overall I still feel like these are the best versions of these films I’ve yet seen, so a massive thank you for your hard work. The updates to AotC are very welcome and well done.
Upon the rewatch there was just one cut that felt a little off, and I fully acknowledge that I’m being really, really, nitpicky here; during the opening of TPM, when Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon are being gassed, the droids no longer speak. Their heads bob, and the droids generally chatter a bit throughout the rest of the film albeit reduced, but they don’t make a noise in this scene. It’s the only scene out of the two movies I’ve rewatched where I felt something was missing or had been cut, which is a testament to just how great the rest of your content is.
I really like the sound of this. I don’t think I’ll ever find a perfect set of prequel edits, but Spence’s were pretty damn close! To that end, I’d advocate the utilisation of the Kenobi fight scene in the introduction of your edit.
These were amazing, thank you so much. I didn’t really know what to expect going into this. I’m used to TV to Movie edits, so going the other is a new experience for me. I have to say that I really enjoyed the rescoring, and it worked beautifully; at no point did I feel I was watching a fan edit at all. I’ll be keeping these in my collection, and I’ve made some Plex episode cards to go with them, if anyone is interested:
PLEX EPISODE CARDS
After the high-tempo combat last week, this week’s episode is definitely the breathing room that was needed. The early episodes felt very jumpy, whereas this one seemed to to linger a little longer where needed. Sol “discovering”/playing along with Mae perhaps dragged out a little much, but I really enjoyed all of the interactions between Qimir and Osha. The Vernestra lightwhip moment felt entirely unneeded, regardless of how one feels about their re-introduction to canon. All in all a stronger episode than some that came before, with some excellent material to be kept if trimming the series into a film.
I’ll likely acknowledge at least the Barriss Offee content in my ‘Follow-on content’ section, but I don’t think either will need to be incorporated into this show.
I completely agree with Keeping the Morgan Elsbeth parts separate as there’s no other link to the character in TCW era.
Given how important Bariss is to Ahsoka’s development, I’d argue that rolling “Devoted” into the Resolve epilogue could be worth consideration, whilst then referencing the Bariss TotE episodes as follow-on watching. There’s few reasons for this, the most obvious being the the timeline crossovers, Resolve both starts before Devoted, and ends afterwards. There’s also some ‘almost’ parallels in Ahsoka’s return to fighting for the light whilst Bariss falls into the dark, at least until her redemption later on.
The choreography and combat styles are brilliant, I was very happy with the action in episode 5 and will happily rewatch those scenes. It’s just a shame the Osha/Mae plot is still the weakest part of the show. I think there’s enough to pull together a fairly decent feature length film, but not much else. It needs a lot of tightening based on what we’ve seen so far.
Thanks for all the hard work g00b, these are turning out great.
When it comes to AI implementation, I’ve always felt the less, the better. It can be a powerful tool to adjust the context of a scene or two for pacing/story, but to replace entire character’s worth of dialogue? I’m just not sure it needs it. The Rebels/Clone Wars cast have already done a great job, particularly those that aren’t movie casts, and it could be perceived as a little disrespectful to the source material and the voice actors to swap a whole character for AI.
Cloud storage has become increasingly frustrating to do cheaply. I’m looking at pCloud lifetime plans as a value option for my personal stuff, but it’s a significant up-front cost, although I’d easily make it back in a few years compared to a similar capacity as a monthly subscription. It does comes with transfer limits (albeit upgradeable, for a price), and while MEGA is undoubtedly cheapest for large volumes of Cloud storage as a service, it comes with the same caveats.
Could I please get any updated links? I’, really looking forward to rewatching Book 4.
Could I get the link for Book 3 please?