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Cobra Kai

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20-Sep-2011
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23-Jun-2018
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489

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Post
#1153558
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

DominicCobb said:

The ST doesn’t “retcon” the OT or make it wrong or whatever (ruin it, I guess?). The OT is still the OT and will always be the self contained story that it is and nothing that comes after can change that. But you admit Luke ended his hero’s journey there, so what is the ST supposed to do then? Just preserve Luke in a glass case of “perfect mythic hero”?

The ST does exactly what a sequel should do. In many ways this is very similar to the way Empire re-contextualizes the original Star Wars.

If the story must continue with all new characters, then Luke’s character should’ve just followed the natural progression that the OT set up and taken over the archetypal role as the wise mentor. That is exactly what they originally tried to do as Abrams and Michael Arndt have stated. According to Arndt though, they couldn’t figure out how to do this and not have Luke steal the show from the new “hero”:

“It just felt like every time Luke entered the movie, he just took it over. Suddenly you didn’t care about your main character anymore because, ‘Oh fuck, Luke Skywalker’s here. I want to see what he’s going to do’.” – Michael Arndt

I understand what he’s saying, but on a fundamental level I disagree with that. I don’t see any reason why Luke couldn’t have taken a “backseat” to Rey, during the course of the story. After all, they basically did the exact same thing with an equally popular character in Han Solo.

Post
#1153521
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

SilverWook said:

The original fairy tales are also a lot darker than the sanitized versions most people are familiar with today.

Most myths too of course, complete happy endings in those were a little elusive.

Not to mention, of course, Star Wars has never been just a fairy tale. That’s just one aspect of it. And it was never supposed to be just another myth. It was supposed to be the creation of a new modern myth. Deconstruction has been built into the franchise since the beginning.

Yes, but it still strictly adheres to the hero’s journey, since Lucas was a great admirer of Joseph Campbell. Lucas created a modern myth, but that has now been broken to extend the story. The decisive victory was turned into a short lived one, and the hero of the story fell from his pedestal, foregoing all his beliefs.

Couldn’t agree more, and that has been one of my main criticisms with the direction they have taken with the ST. Star Wars at its very core is modern mythology told with classic archetypal narratives and characters. Luke already overcame his inner struggles in Empire and Jedi, and the OT made the final, definitive statement on Luke’s character when he said “I am a Jedi, like my father before me.” Nothing more needs to be said on the matter after that, and any continuing stories should have just left his character alone and focus more attention on Rey.
Of course, I don’t solely blame RJ since he was just having to continue where TFA left off. Abrams and company kind of wrote themselves into a corner after they couldn’t figure out how to portray Luke as the mentor, so just decided to stick him on an Island and let the next director figure it out.

Post
#1147448
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Shopping Maul said:

One of my main issues with TLJ is Rey’s character. She doesn’t actually go through any training, nor does the movie focus on her personal journey / inner struggles. Most of her time she spends just trying to get through to Luke and Kylo. Thus we are left at the end with a pretty bland protagonist heading in to the THIRD MOVIE, which is a shame because it feels like such a wasted opportunity for what could have been a really cool character.

Abrams didn’t do much better with her in TFA, but the first 10 minutes or so where she is introduced on Jakku - I thought that was a great introduction for the character. In fact, for me that’s really the only section in any of the Disney SW movies that feels like “Star Wars.” It features really solid, visual storytelling and we learn a lot about Rey in just a few short minutes. (John Williams’ theme here adds a lot as well).

Don’t get me wrong - I like that TLJ tried to return the Force to its roots as just an energy field used by space-Yogis. But it’s too late because Rey exhibits exactly the kind of exaggerated powers implied by ROTJ and the prequels - inherited abilities that belong to a chosen few even in the complete absence of Jedi intervention. The best defence for her Mary Sue-ness in TFA was post-ROTJ logic - you don’t have to live in space-Tibet and meditate for 6 months to hone these powers because you can automatically have a genetic predisposition.

Which is why everyone thought she was a ‘Kenobi’ or a ‘Skywalker’ or even a ‘Palpatine’. It’s annoying (to a fan like me who hates this notion of inherited Jedi-ness) but it follows logically from what’s been established.

But Rey gets to have her cake and eat it too, because she’s a nobody. She’s an everyman/woman like Luke was in ANH with the Force as a ‘mere’ energy field, but she has prequel-level powers. This in turn trivialises the Force because, if it’s no longer genetic, then it simply must be infinitely more accessible than the first films implied.

Conclusion? TLJ is silly, but ROTJ screwed things up in the first place!

There’s nothing in ROTJ that implies “exaggerated” abilities without having to train. The problems started in TFA. She didn’t have to be that powerful, but I think they just didn’t have time to get the script ready, and the end result feels like a rough draft.

Lawrence Kasdan said when they took over writing duties from Michael Arndt, that they basically “started from scratch.” That was in November of 2013, just a few short months before filming. They also said they had trouble figuring out Luke’s role in the movie as Rey’s mentor, as he was originally supposed to be, so they just decided to stick him on an island and be the mcguffin.

As a result of that decision, Rian then had to figure out the whole Luke-Hermit angle. So instead of the movie focusing on Rey’s character, she becomes more of a side character, helping to bring Luke back to the force.

Post
#1147377
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

TavorX said:
What I DO have an issue with is that Rey has very little conflict character wise. Her fast Jedi leveling-up would be fine if she had stronger inner conflict.

Agreed.
One of my main issues with TLJ is Rey’s character. She doesn’t actually go through any training, nor does the movie focus on her personal journey / inner struggles. Most of her time she spends just trying to get through to Luke and Kylo. Thus we are left at the end with a pretty bland protagonist heading in to the THIRD MOVIE, which is a shame because it feels like such a wasted opportunity for what could have been a really cool character.

Abrams didn’t do much better with her in TFA, but the first 10 minutes or so where she is introduced on Jakku - I thought that was a great introduction for the character. In fact, for me that’s really the only section in any of the Disney SW movies that feels like “Star Wars.” It features really solid, visual storytelling and we learn a lot about Rey in just a few short minutes. (John Williams’ theme here adds a lot as well).

Post
#1146803
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Matt.F said:

I think I’ve come to the conclusion that I should restrict myself to checking in on Adywan’s progress in the Fan Edit section of this site.

I thought this was a place for fans who love Star Wars but it really seems it is the opposite. As someone who thoroughly enjoyed The Last Jedi I find myself in a minority position, and the more I read comments here that are dumping on the film the more it appears that the pile on is increasing. I fear the prevailing view, or at least those crack posting, is a negative one and that’s rather toxic and somewhat depressing.

Uh… Not everyone is going to automatically love a movie simply because it has a Star Wars logo on the poster. The discussions here from those that did not like it have detailed specific and legitimate criticisms of the movie.

Post
#1146316
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

SilverWook said:

dwsiddall said:

SilverWook said:

dwsiddall said:

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

chyron8472 said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

Someone expressed their opinion and you seem to feel the need to prove them wrong. Why?

Cartoony humor is different from subtle, smart humor. Star Wars had subtle humor, not in-your-face slapstick.

You certainly may disagree, but that doesn’t undermine or lessen those of us who share this opinion.

I’m simply reminding that certain things TLJ is being pilloried for are not new in Star Wars.

And there was plenty of unsubtle humor in ROTJ. Nothing in TLJ rises to the level of Chewbacca swinging from a vine yelling like Tarzan. A joke Lucas even repeated in Revenge Of The Sith.

I was personally only referring to the humor in A New Hope, which was subtle and done sparingly. ROTJ was corny and marked “the beginning of the end” for Star Wars being taken seriously.

The Tarzan yells fall under the category I described in my larger post about my disappointment with The Last Jedi. Because it references something from planet earth, which they couldn’t possibly know anything about since all of this takes place “a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away”.

This reminds me of a time in the late 80s or early 90s that I decided to try reading a Star Wars spin-off novel. I think it was a Timothy Zahn, but not sure. It said that Luke was drinking “hot chocolate”. I put the book down and never picked it up again. No. This is a different universe. They don’t have chocolate. Even if they had something that was exactly like chocolate, they wouldn’t call it chocolate. Any earth references completely ruin the story.

Obi Wan mentions ducks in the original SW novel. 😉

Yep, and Han and some other Rebel dude are going to “hell.”

Post
#1146311
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

Valheru_84 said:

pittrek said:

Back on topic : Mark Hamill’s reaction after the premiere https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwaCwFFs7qA

So did anyone else actually watch this? Skip to 1:24 for the actual video.

I get the feeling that Mark didn’t know he was being killed off until he watched it actually happen and on top of what he already thought about Luke’s character in this movie (he really didn’t like it), he looks absolutely floored as to what Rian Johnson has done to his character. He also looks ready to kill RJ at the end as RJ smirks to the press…

I feel so bad for Hamill.

.Val

Yes, you can also watch the full press conference as well as another video from someone in the crowd that shows more of Mark’s face. He looks like that pretty much the whole press conference. He seems better when he speaks, but then goes back to that shocked look. Definitely appears like something is wrong with him, but we can only speculate as to the reason. Could be nothing or just nothing to do with the movie. We’ll never know.

Let’s not speculate on Mark’s health around here until there’s actually something concrete to go on? Thanks!

I didn’t speculate about his health or any other reason.

Post
#1146300
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Valheru_84 said:

pittrek said:

Back on topic : Mark Hamill’s reaction after the premiere https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwaCwFFs7qA

So did anyone else actually watch this? Skip to 1:24 for the actual video.

I get the feeling that Mark didn’t know he was being killed off until he watched it actually happen and on top of what he already thought about Luke’s character in this movie (he really didn’t like it), he looks absolutely floored as to what Rian Johnson has done to his character. He also looks ready to kill RJ at the end as RJ smirks to the press…

I feel so bad for Hamill.

.Val

Yes, you can also watch the full press conference as well as another video from someone in the crowd that shows more of Mark’s face. He looks like that pretty much the whole press conference. He seems better when he speaks, but then goes back to that shocked look. Definitely appears like something is wrong with him, but we can only speculate as to the reason. Could be nothing or just nothing to do with the movie. We’ll never know.

Post
#1146275
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

DrDre said:

Cobra Kai said:

DrDre said:

Cobra Kai said:

DrDre said:

Mark Hamill:

“Luke would never say that, I’m talking about the George Lucas Star Wars. This is the next generation of Star Wars. I almost had to think of Luke as another character. Maybe he’s Jake Skywalker, he’s not my Luke Skywalker”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIY-PsHrj9A

Well it’s not my Luke Skywalker either.

Doesn’t sound like Mark is at all happy with how RJ portrayed his character. I agree with him wholeheartedly. I don’t think this has ever happened before. A Star Wars actor blasting the way his character was handled at the time of the movie’s release.

I agree, but I can’t really blame that all on Rian Johnson. He inherited the problem of how to portray Luke from TFA. Han Solo says it all - That Luke “walked away”. So, I don’t know what they could’ve done different with Luke and still have it match with TFA?
I mean if Luke Skywalker “walks away,” never to return, then he has to be in a pretty dark place in the Last Jedi, right?

I think it would’ve been better to just go ahead and make him the mentor in TFA.

TFA also said Luke went to look for the first Jedi Temple. Many speculated he went there to look for some answers, some sort of solution. So, this was not his only option.

Yes, I guess that’s possible. But still it’s hard to reconcile the fact that Luke leaves and does not deal with the Kylo situation, unless he’s just looking for answers and accidentally gets stranded or something like that.

I suppose so. On the other hand, the story was completely open. Luke could have looked for Kylo, and have tried to bring him back, and failed. He couldn’t kill his nephew, and so he felt to find the first Jedi Temple to look for answers. Obi-Wan and Yoda waited two decades for a solution to present itself.

The TFA script says:

“Older now, white hair, bearded. He looks at Rey. A kindness
in his eyes, but there’s something tortured, too. He doesn’t
need to ask her who she is, or what she is doing here. His
look says it all.”

So, my interpretation would be, he was expecting Rey, which seems more in line with one of those old legends of the master waiting for the right student to appear.

True.
But about Obi-Wan and Yoda - that was a problem brought about by the prequels, which I pretend do not exist. In fact I would not have chosen to include Yoda in the prequels for that reason, and just the fact that it demystifies a great character. But that’s a whole other conversation…

Post
#1146265
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

DrDre said:

Cobra Kai said:

DrDre said:

Mark Hamill:

“Luke would never say that, I’m talking about the George Lucas Star Wars. This is the next generation of Star Wars. I almost had to think of Luke as another character. Maybe he’s Jake Skywalker, he’s not my Luke Skywalker”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIY-PsHrj9A

Well it’s not my Luke Skywalker either.

Doesn’t sound like Mark is at all happy with how RJ portrayed his character. I agree with him wholeheartedly. I don’t think this has ever happened before. A Star Wars actor blasting the way his character was handled at the time of the movie’s release.

I agree, but I can’t really blame that all on Rian Johnson. He inherited the problem of how to portray Luke from TFA. Han Solo says it all - That Luke “walked away”. So, I don’t know what they could’ve done different with Luke and still have it match with TFA?
I mean if Luke Skywalker “walks away,” never to return, then he has to be in a pretty dark place in the Last Jedi, right?

I think it would’ve been better to just go ahead and make him the mentor in TFA.

TFA also said Luke went to look for the first Jedi Temple. Many speculated he went there to look for some answers, some sort of solution. So, this was not his only option.

Yes, I guess that’s possible. But still it’s hard to reconcile the fact that Luke leaves and does not deal with the Kylo situation, unless he’s just looking for answers and accidentally gets stranded or something like that.

Post
#1146253
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

DrDre said:

Mark Hamill:

“Luke would never say that, I’m talking about the George Lucas Star Wars. This is the next generation of Star Wars. I almost had to think of Luke as another character. Maybe he’s Jake Skywalker, he’s not my Luke Skywalker”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIY-PsHrj9A

Well it’s not my Luke Skywalker either.

Doesn’t sound like Mark is at all happy with how RJ portrayed his character. I agree with him wholeheartedly. I don’t think this has ever happened before. A Star Wars actor blasting the way his character was handled at the time of the movie’s release.

I agree, but I can’t really blame that all on Rian Johnson. He inherited the problem of how to portray Luke from TFA. Han Solo says it all - That Luke “walked away”. So, I don’t know what they could’ve done different with Luke and still have it match with TFA?
I mean if Luke Skywalker “walks away,” never to return, then he has to be in a pretty dark place in the Last Jedi, right?

I think it would’ve been better to just go ahead and make him the mentor in TFA.

Post
#1146216
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

chyron8472 said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

I could almost guarantee that if TLJ’s story beats exactly matched expectations of what people were speculating, many people would have accused the film of being predictable and boring.

I would have settled for a competently told story, and one that spent less time on pointless sub-plots, useless characters, & cartoony gags, and more focus on the critical themes surrounding our hero’s struggles and growth as she takes the next step of her journey.

Because there never were any cartoony gags in the OOT.

Nope, not even close to the extent of the gags that were placed throughout TLJ. The only thing in the OOT that feels like a “gag” is the Tarzan yell in ROTJ, which fortunately is brief and not in-your-face, like the TLJ stuff.

Anyway, the gags are just one aspect of what’s wrong with the movie.

Forgetting Wicket hitting himself in the head with his own sling?

Cartoon physics when Paploo steals the speeder bike?

The slapstick only got worse in the SE’s. The droid in Mos Eisely hitting the other droid for example. Or the Jawas falling off the Ronto.

I dont remember saying that the ROTJ gags (and they were much less prominent than TLJ) were a good idea in the first place. In fact, I don’t think i’ve ever heard anyone say that, so it’s irrelevant to the current discussion.

Not only did RJ insert stupid gags into the movie, but he actually spent time on each one, and made them stand out apart from whatever was going on in the scene. For example, the Chewie roasting the porg scene and the BB-8 slot-machine joke.

And again, this is not the worst thing about the movie. They just add insult to injury after the pointless subplots / characters and lack of any real growth within the main character, just to name a couple…

Post
#1146192
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

chyron8472 said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

I could almost guarantee that if TLJ’s story beats exactly matched expectations of what people were speculating, many people would have accused the film of being predictable and boring.

I would have settled for a competently told story, and one that spent less time on pointless sub-plots, useless characters, & cartoony gags, and more focus on the critical themes surrounding our hero’s struggles and growth as she takes the next step of her journey.

Because there never were any cartoony gags in the OOT.

Nope, not even close to the extent of the gags that were placed throughout TLJ. The only thing in the OOT that feels like a “gag” is the Tarzan yell in ROTJ, which fortunately is brief and not in-your-face, like the TLJ stuff.

Anyway, the gags are just one aspect of what’s wrong with the movie.

Post
#1146180
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

chyron8472 said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

I could almost guarantee that if TLJ’s story beats exactly matched expectations of what people were speculating, many people would have accused the film of being predictable and boring.

I would have settled for a competently told story, and one that spent less time on pointless sub-plots, useless characters, & cartoony gags, and more focus on the critical themes surrounding our hero’s struggles and growth as she takes the next step of her journey.

Post
#1146104
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

I was really disappointed with Rey.

In TFA, she was likable, but really too powerful to be a compelling character. I was hoping RJ would somehow rectify this, but after watching I felt that she was again massively underserved as a character.

Just like TFA, she doesn’t really struggle or grow in this movie.
What does she learn? What inner challenges does she face during the course of the movie? What must she overcome at the end of the movie, setting up her character for the 3rd act in the trilogy? Nothing…

They briefly touch on a few aspects of her character but there is no focus to any of it, and thus we don’t know anything else about her that we didn’t know halfway through TFA, other than she is still a badass with a lightsaber.
Since Luke doesn’t serve as a mentor, she doesn’t actually go through any sort of training. She briefly tells Luke that she is afraid of what’s inside her, but that doesn’t come up again. They touch on her fears surrounding her identity, parents, and abandonment on Jakku, but that’s also not a main theme of the movie and doesn’t lead anywhere.

She spends most of her time on the island trying to get through to Luke and Kylo, but very little time learning the ways of the force and facing her inner-demons. Maybe if RJ hadn’t included a bunch of silly nonsense like the meaningless, Finn-Rose subplot, he could have spent more time actually developing the main character and focusing on the main theme of the movie.

To Rian’s defense, though, he inherited the whole “depressed-hermit-Luke” scenario from TFA, so it is kind of hard to have Luke be the wise teacher, if he is in such a dark place that it caused him to run away from everything. That’s one of the main reasons I disagree with sending Luke to that island in the first place. I think it would have worked much better to just go ahead and make Luke the mentor in TFA.

Post
#1142328
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Lust-In-Phaze said:

Mike O said:

Valheru_84 said:

Seeing that news about the Disney-Fox deal is supposed to be revealed today when TLJ also releases, I’m thinking (and fervently hoping) this bodes well for 4K OUT prospects. It’s to much of a coincidence for it to not mean something significant for SW.

.Val

Not according to Pablo Hidalgo on Twitter 😦.

He makes it seem like it really is George holding it back, which I never thought was the case. I wonder if it’s an actual legal stipulation or if it’s just LFL trying to honor his wishes.

Pablo’s latest reply about GL: “I think people respect his wishes.”

Post
#1142280
Topic
Disney to buy 20th (21st) Century Fox? (Disney has now bought them - 14 Dec '17)
Time

Mocata said:

Cobra Kai said:

Mocata said:

Mike O said:
He writes, “There’s one pretty noteworthy person who doesn’t want them released. Shouldn’t be too hard to research who that is.” (https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/941382975853281281).

I’m not sure what the subsequent discussion here is implying but this seems pretty unambiguous to me (his shitty sarcasm aside) … and it’s the same thing everyone was told by Kennedy months ago. What else is there to debate now?

Kennedy never commented on the possibility of an OOT release.

Only if you grasp hard enough to all those straws.

Not grasping. If you watch the unedited clip of that interview, you’ll see she had no idea what the guy was talking about and then answers a question about making more changes.

Post
#1142269
Topic
Disney to buy 20th (21st) Century Fox? (Disney has now bought them - 14 Dec '17)
Time

Mocata said:

Mike O said:
He writes, “There’s one pretty noteworthy person who doesn’t want them released. Shouldn’t be too hard to research who that is.” (https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/941382975853281281).

I’m not sure what the subsequent discussion here is implying but this seems pretty unambiguous to me (his shitty sarcasm aside) … and it’s the same thing everyone was told by Kennedy months ago. What else is there to debate now?

Kennedy never commented on the possibility of an OOT release.

Post
#1142187
Topic
Disney to buy 20th (21st) Century Fox? (Disney has now bought them - 14 Dec '17)
Time

Mike O said:

joefavs said:

Pablo Hidalgo on Twitter, just now:

[Pablo said:]
Good morning! What’s kept the original theatrical editions off of home video is the same thing that’s always been doing that. It’s not a studio thing.

And for what it’s worth(asterisk), I’d love to have 'em.

(asterisk)it is worth nothing

Who is this person ?

Works for Lucasfilm
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Pablo_Hidalgo

Post
#1142140
Topic
Disney to buy 20th (21st) Century Fox? (Disney has now bought them - 14 Dec '17)
Time

joefavs said:

Pablo Hidalgo on Twitter, just now:

[Pablo said:]
Good morning! What’s kept the original theatrical editions off of home video is the same thing that’s always been doing that. It’s not a studio thing.

And for what it’s worth(asterisk), I’d love to have 'em.

(asterisk)it is worth nothing

I can only assume he’s talking about George here, but I still don’t buy the excuse that GL still has influence on the matter. Pablo later says in that thread that he “doesn’t see it happening.”