Broom Kid

hey-ooooooo

I don’t even think it’s that complicated. I think “I don’t understand it” means he was told “we don’t wanna.” and he was like “You own it, its yours, and you’re not putting it out because… you just don’t WANT to?”

I really do think that’s all there is to it. That’s all there is behind its not being released, and that’s all there is behind his confusion. Because the simplest answer (they just don’t want to) IS confusing and hard to explain. We still can’t do it and we’ve been dedicated to asking why since 2006.

I think there’s also something to be said for the fact Abrams did ask… and then let it drop. He didn’t push for it, or make any argument for it. He was kind of like “shrug” and then went and got the well-known and easily obtainable fan-restorations that everyone on both sides of the consumer/provider line know about.

The interview he gave where he mentioned it didn’t really get much traction and wasn’t repeated too many places, either.

The original version was screened, theatrically, in 70mm last year and it was barely news.

I think at this point, here in 2020, the reason Lucasfilm doesn’t give a press release or officially address why the original versions aren’t available is because the audience for it has become so niche that it’s no longer a concern they feel is worth addressing. The large majority of their audience doesn’t really care which version they get. This is unfair, of course. It’s short-sighted, and endlessly frustrating - and that reality has been artificially induced and then promoted by the company, and the company’s reticence to make those original versions available has further depressed any potential of that original versions audience ever growing again.

But the end result is the same. Lucasfilm knows what the audience size is for the originals, they know who wants it, and how bad they want it, and they’ve apparently decided that for reasons no amount of petitioning or pleading will change, that audience isn’t going to be served.

But at least they’ve also apparently decided to not get in the way of that audience serving itself. So there’s that, I guess. And that audience has gotten amazingly, shockingly, rewardingly GREAT at servicing itself over the past 15 years, too.

There isn’t anything specific to this box-set that won’t be duplicated on the individual titles. However, I don’t think anyone knows what each title is going to have so far as bonus content yet, and I’m betting that what IS included on each title won’t be known until either the discs leak, or they sell through on retail, because I don’t get the sense Disney Home Video is going to be servicing review outlets with pre-release copies.

The assumption so far is that it’ll be a collection of already available bonus extras from previous blu-ray releases, with maybe some DVD-only extras from 2004 mixed in? But that’s just an assumption, I don’t think anyone actually knows what’s going on with the release discs yet on that front.

FWIW (and this is sort of off-topic) I almost don’t see the point in doing an D+83. I think 4k83 is that good as a base scan. I’m sure if you did an A-B between 4k83 and the D+ version the difference would be clearer but honestly, watching 4k83 (especially the minimal DNR-no chroma noise) on a projector is an almost flawless movie-watching experience, especially as someone who definitely remembers seeing ROTJ theatrically a lot.

D+80 is probably the most “necessary” (as it were) because we’re apparently a pretty long way off from a high-quality 100% film-scan sourced restoration of the best Star Wars movie. (i.e. 4k80) so having a very good blend of the 2012 Lowry re-master and high-quality shots sourced from the 4k80 project should fill that bill almost perfectly. As it is, the version of D+80 right now, using the D+ streaming master, is 95% of the way there, there’s only a few little nits to pick (and the choice to leave a lot of the 1997 optical re-comps in isn’t one of those nits, for me personally).

I don’t believe there’s a thread on this forum about it, but instead it’s over at TheStarWarsTrilogy forums, where the 4KXX series and the Silver Screen Edition scans originate from.

Short version - it’s essentially a “de-specialized edition” that uses the Disney+ files as the base, and replaces shots as necessary from the 4K77 and 4K80 scans to make the 2012 Lowry re-masters as close to theatrical as possible. It’s not as involved as Harmy’s Despecialized projects, which involved a lot of blending and matte-work, it seems to mostly just be replacing whole shots when a change comes up. It’s notable that the 4K80 project isn’t very close to completion yet, but the scans themselves have been made available to Oohteedee for use in his project.

I don’t understand this, or your obsession with the Chosen One prophecy. It seems like you think all the bad parts of Star Wars tie back to the prophecy, when I never interpreted it as a retcon of the OT. If anything, it actually enhances the OT characters’ accomplishments, by giving them a wider galactic context. But this is all subjective.

Firstly: it’s not an “obsession” and I don’t really appreciate the implication behind my bringing it up here in this conversation. It’s not an “unhealthy fixation” or anything, or at least not beyond any “unhealthy fixation” that prompts any of us to still be visiting web forums about Star Wars in 2020, haha.

You may disagree with it (you obviously do) but I think there’s nothing wrong with pointing out how and why the decisions made in the past affect the stuff we’re looking at here in the present, and despite the fact you don’t look at it as a retcon, it’s still a retcon. Retcon isn’t an inherently negative term, either.

Secondly: don’t think ALL the bad parts of Star Wars tie back to the prophecy, but I also think it’s pretty much inarguable that “The Prophecy of the Chosen One,” especially being introduced as the means for Anakin’s discovery AND fall AND redemption (which, again, didn’t become the central focus of the Star Wars saga until AFTER Return of the Jedi finished its theatrical run) is a key point of many of the other story decisions made in the prequels, and thus, many of the discussions (and arguments) people have on web forums about Star Wars regarding the Force, and Lucas, and “the rules” as they were.

People like to discuss this fiction as if it’s not fiction, and that’s a huge stumbling block. This isn’t a documentary that only Lucas has the ability to tell correctly. It’s a pastiche of myth and adventure stories, and it’s never actually had a singular author, no matter how fervently we’ve all fed into the myth that it did (and does, and should) It’s not original, and there’s tons of outside context to look at and take into account when talking about what Star Wars does and doesn’t do well.

Lucas’ ideas aren’t infallible, and if you’ve got room to improve them, and you’ve been given the green light to do that, then do it! Prophecy was a lazy conceit, applied haphazardly and fairly terribly. One of the unintended results is that the very nature of this hazy, vaguely-formed mystic fictional religion is JUST solidified enough for people to stake out positions and issue challenges based on their understanding of it.

This seems like it’s kind of a cousin to the recent conversations about Canon and its percieved importance, and a thing Lucas used to believe (I think it’s one of the things he learned from Roddenberry, in fact) is that canon doesn’t really matter, and if canon is a hindrance to making your story better, then change the canon, or disregard it. I think that if that’s what Rian did on TLJ, fine. Good.

I don’t think I’m misunderstanding what I think is a pretty obvious oversight regarding the nature of the force on the part of RJ but I’m open to hearing any possible explanations.

I think NFB’s post above is a great response, but if I could add my own counterargment on top of it: whether Rian broke the rules or not - those rules being broken led to a better movie, which is the most important thing.

Because as everyone here should be painfully familiar with by now: George Lucas doesn’t always have good ideas, and sticking to something he dreamed up simply because he dreamed it up is a pretty unnecessary set of handcuffs to put on yourself if you don’t have to.

And Rian didn’t have to.

And that’s all IF I agree with the notion he didn’t get The Force, which I DON’T agree with. We can’t even properly wrap our head around REAL religions, much less half-baked fictional ones that more or less only exist for the sake of giving a fantasy movie its magic analog. The Force being shaded and re-interpreted for each trilogy (or even each movie, really) is just as much a Star Wars tradition as the opening scroll and blue closing credits.

Once again, one of the bigger discussions i’ve seen in the past 20 years comes down to rules-lawyering a fictional religion in a fantasy movie - but the only reason that rules-lawyering has been allowed to go on so long is because Lucas had the brilliant idea to retcon Return of the Jedi with the Prequel Trilogy, retroactively making the OT and PT into Anakin’s story, and using a tired “CHOSEN ONE prophecy” arc for him, created a shaky, and almost ALWAYS misunderstood concept of what “balance” means in the force as the engine for that prophecy to run through the prequels.

If I agree that Rian Johnson tweaked or changed the idea of how people interact or concieve of the Force in-universe, I’d say that’s fine. Adhering to bad ideas, executed badly, for the sake of keeping canon sacred, is just another form of bad storytelling. If there’s room for re-interpretation (and there obviously is - Lucas himself keeps doing it both in the movies and in interviews ABOUT the movies, as NFB showed above) then I think that re-interpretation should be done if you have a good angle or idea on it that helps YOUR STORY.

I know this is way beside the point but man… I just love the Ewoks. Completely unironically. I think they’re great.

It’s bizarre to me how even back in 1983-1984 (and of course, continuing all the way til now, really) people thought they were somehow a stain or a mark on Star Wars. They fit so perfectly. Guerrilla-warfare with teddy bears. That’s Star Wars as hell. The idea that they didn’t fit really doesn’t make any sense. I could see how you could make the argument, and to be honest I DID make some variations on that argument (to a lesser degree, at least) myself when I was younger and took Star Wars way too seriously as a teenager and young adult. But from here, now that I’m old and looking back from 2020? Of course they fit. They fit beautifully. I kind of wish they were used a little bit better, of course (that’s a general wish about everything Return of the Jedi, honestly, I wish it was just done a little bit better in a lot of ways) but they never felt “out of bounds” or anything.

Bounding into Comics is a terrible website that probably shouldn’t be getting eyeballs or attention from anyone. It’s essentially a mouthpiece for some of the absolute worst elements of “geek culture” or “fandom” in general.

It’s essentially Breitbart or OANN for “fanboys”

Oh wow, yeah, that shot of Luke on the Skiff with Chewie and the weequay is STRAIGHT out of my memories. I’m a little startled by the flashback I just had, haha.

I’m not sure what you did to reel 3, and my pre-emptive “I’m not a pro, I don’t really know what I’m talking about” caveat always applies but: That’s pretty much how I remember seeing Jedi the two or three times I’ve seen it theatrically projected. Reels 2 & 3 especially: Even when it’s good (and this is good!) it never truly pops. Whether that’s due to the lighting, or the stock, or the cameras being used (there’s an interesting discussion in the Original Trilogy forum specifically about Lucas’ decision to use different cameras for multiple setups to get it done faster and with more footage to play with in post), Jedi’s always seemed a little duller and flatter than the other two.

I think there’s a ceiling as to how “good” ROTJ can actually look, and this is a hard nut to crack, getting it to look good without veering into “revisionism,” if you will. Thanks again so much for the work and the effort.

That’s pretty impressive!

I’ve always thought attempting to grade this correctly (even with the quality of the 4k83 scan being as high as it is) would be difficult for no other reason than Return of the Jedi is sort of a flat looking movie. There have got to be moments where you’re looking at a shot and thinking “this seems sort of bland and washed out” and the truth is… it IS bland and washed out! Because Jedi very often looked like that! So do you fix it and make it a little more vibrant, make the image seem to have more depth - or do you leave it as is because Jedi just didn’t consistently look very good?

Thank you so much for your efforts. I know it can’t be easy.

Maybe they’ll make Dark Disciple into a movie or something like that.

But they’re selling this as THE FINAL SEASON so…

If they’re ever going to make any other arcs, they’re probably gonna have to be something else.

Reese said:

Why do people pre-order in the first place? Stupid.

Convenience, mostly. Sometimes it’s to lock in a sale price that happens between announcement and on-sale date. Scarcity can be a thing, too. Pre-ordering limited editions makes a lot of sense in many cases. Plus in some cases pre-ordering lets you put money down when you have it over time so you’re not shocking your wallet all in one go if it’s an expensive item.

These are some pretty common sense answers in the past 30 or so years that “pre-ordering” (or the 20-30 years before that, “layaway”) has been a popular purchasing option.

Just did the same.

Polygon’s article on this links to a wal-mart listing for a blu-ray only box-set at $130.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Star-Wars-The-Skywalker-Saga-Complete-Box-Set-Blu-ray-2019-Region-Free/789614707

That flip-top box is pretty cool, honestly. A little more reminiscent of the original VHS Trilogy packaging from the mid-80s.

LOL at Episode IV getting the smallest bonus disc possible.

Everything about it is kinda suspect for now because it’s just scans (?) from the back of an international release, taken from a website most of us haven’t heard of before. But they’re images, which are harder to gin up than a simple list, so I guess they’re instinctively more believable. Although even on these images, the “list” seems pretty incomplete and as you just pointed out, possibly inaccurate

also, from a graphic design standpoint, that image is janky as hell. I know blu-ray and UHD cases aren’t particularly well designed or have a lot of effort or time put into them anymore, but for real that back cover looks like it was made in MS Paint.

Nobody knows. And it seems like the list of bonus features is incomplete on top of that?

The main assumption that people seem to be going with on home video forums is that “making-of-collection” = “everything that was a bonus feature on the 2011 blu-rays and the 04 DVDs is being ported over”

How are the film scores apples & oranges?

Goldsmith’s score for the Motion Picture is great (and Goldsmith himself is a legend for very good reason) but a whole lot of Star Trek music is just… unremarkable. In some instances it’s actually bad. Especially once you start factoring in the TV shows. I don’t know that I can point to a single bad Star Wars score, though, and many of both series’ scores are trying to do the same thing, using the same musical language in a lot of instances.

I’m not saying there isn’t some timeless Star Trek music. But I can’t see an argument being made for Star Trek having a better musical component.

Not that I’ve ever really gone in for comparing the two (oh, remember the days when that was the most contentious question in all of “Fandom?” how little did we know…) but I always felt that the comparison was ONLY fair when you took the very best of each series and measured those two, AT their best, against each other.

I will say this, the only area in which I think there’s no real argument whatsoever is that Star Wars has better music. That’s the only aspect where I don’t think there’s any contest at all.

The Empire might seem like fascist super state, but meaningful comparisons to real historical figures are not really appropriate.

They’re 100% appropriate. Can people take them too far, and by extension essentially lose themselves in the forest of symbolism and extrapolated meaning without any storytelling context? Absolutely. It happens all the time, when people are looking to project themselves and their own experiences onto the film in numerous ways.

But even “just” Star Wars allowed for (and was intended to allow for) comparison to real historical figures.

This seems like a guess, to me? Why would the commentaries be on the bonus disc, for one. I don’t know. My first instinct is to say this is placeholder info/guessing based on old product.

I think it’s safe to just call it, definitely.