Sluggo said:
This is the last of my Star Wars books. I donated about all of the EU stuff to my local library. The stack of pages on the top shelf are copies of all the scripts I found on the net, plus my Indy comics.
I about died and went to heaven after seeing this picture!!!
I would say: SW Chronicles, Jedi Quizbook, Making of Star Wars/TESB.
Baronlando said:
I wish they'd hurry up and put Judi Dench into Goldfinger already, it just makes more sense now.
LOL!
Baronlando said:
That was me. My first comment showed up, then I felt myself getting sucked into the old star wars arguing vortex, aka the Go-mertonic nebula.
LOL! The 'nebula' has returned over at TF.N.
Bingowings said:
If he were posting here we would be posting pictures of tuna sandwiches and ice-cream by now.
Now please excuse me while I run Catherine Zeta Jones through the laser avoidance dance routine.
ROFLMAO!
Erikstormtrooper said:
TheBoost said:
Erikstormtrooper said:
I expected Anakin to die in the lava. I expected Sidious to bring him back to life using the Dark Side, the catch being that Sidious has to consciously channel the Dark Side for Vader to remain alive. That is Sidious' power over Vader ... the true "Power of the Dark Side" ... the reason Vader "must obey".
Plus, if Anakin really dies, Obi Wan would not have to make the decision to walk away from his dying friend. And he becomes less of a liar in ANH when he tells Luke that Vader murdered his father.
This would have changed the nature of the OT more than anything that was in the Prequels. If Vader is literally an unwilling slave to Empy, then there is no redemption for him as he's being actively coereced to do evil by a very real threat.
And how does it make Obi less of a liar?
Vader may be a slave, but his redemption becomes more powerful because he knows he's condemning himself by turning on his master.
Obi's less of a liar because Anakin really is murdered. He's still a liar, he just goes from 9 to 6 on the liar scale.
Except in that scenario, he isn't "murdered by Vader". More accurate would be, "murdered by The Emperor/the dark side".
Seriously, the picture above should be made THE appended caption to any or all of Lucas' bad ideas........
hairy_hen said:
Objectively speaking, I would agree that it doesn't matter if people like the prequels and special editions or not, if the originals weren't being deliberately suppressed. However, on an emotional level, it in fact does disturb me a great deal. I fervently wish they had never been made at all, both because I loathe the revisionism and because I hate the fact that this whole 'controversy' even has to exist.
Moreover, I feel like a fool looking back on the time when I actually did like them and was taken in by their flashiness. Like Marion's father towards Indiana Jones, it took a hell of a lot to alienate me from Lucas. For a long time I cheerfully accepted the company line that the SE's were so much better, and thought TPM was just dandy. AotC began to set me on the path of realising something wasn't right, but RotS at first seemed to make it all okay again. It wasn't until the sheer awfulness of the 2004 dvd's, which I didn't buy until after RotS came out, that it fully sunk in for me just how rotten things had become in Denmark . . . er, Star Wars. Being as focused on sound as I am, I could possibly have even accepted those further changes if the dvd sound mix hadn't been so disgustingly terrible. At that point I finally took a good hard look back at all the stupid things Lucas had been doing, and for the first time saw them for what they truly were. It was a sobering experience to say the least.
Watching the original versions of the films again for the first time in eight years was like getting back together with old friends I hadn't even known I'd missed, that I had unthinkingly abandoned to be with the superficial popular crowd. How could I have ever been made to think they were lacking or in need of revision? Then I discovered this forum and learned about all the sound mixes and other small differences even the originals have had over the years, and became interested in them from a technical perspective as well as what made them artistically superior. I also re-read Timothy Zahn's works and saw how much better his ideas were than what Lucas actually did.
So in the face of this tremendous unwilling disillusionment with something that has meant so much to me over the years, the notion that people would continue to actively believe and support LFL's nonsense is something I find utterly repugnant. It might sound snobbish to say, but I think I learned a valuable lesson about what it means to have good taste, as opposed to lapping something up simply because it has the name "Star Wars" on it. I hate that it has to be this way, and part of me still longs for the days when there was no split and the creator hadn't ruined the integrity of his own story, which could only be if the prequels and special editions had never been made.
Undoubtedly Star Wars means different things to different people, but that the now-official view bears no resemblance to what it used to be, and cannot be reconciled with the way I myself see it, means that the people who do support the party line on some fundamental level just do not get it. They don't know what Star Wars is really about, they don't understand what it is that makes it work or not work, and seem to be incapable of distinguishing between the two.
Still, despite how much it took to alienate me, I was never really one of them, because I never actively derided the original versions of the films. To me, they used to be one and the same. I didn't extracate myself until it sunk in that Lucas meant to suppress the real films and replace them, and that the prequels' contradictions were meant as active retcons rather than simple oversight. Unlike prequel gushers, I do not want to think about the ways the newer material fundamentally (and nonsensically) alters aspects of the story. Unfortunately, the vile truth is that many people will continue to believe Lucas' revisionist crap, either not knowing how the story has been changed and destroyed, not caring, or thinking it to be a genuine improvement.
And that is why I hate the fact the prequels and special editions even exist.
Damn good post, hairy_hen.
SilverWook said:
I'd be willing to bet any Lucasfilm employee who publicly criticized any aspect of SW would be pink-slipped pretty fast.
Well.....that would happen only if they criticized any aspect of the PT . If they criticized anything from the OT, especially SW '77, they'd probably get an automatic pay raise.
CO said:
Like this guy on the panel named Hodges who says that the Prequels were all laid out in 1976, so that should debunk all the PT haters that Lucas made this up as he went along.
This guy's example of "having the Prequels laid out in 1976" - i.e. the prologue to SW novel explaining the political situation from the fall of the Republic to the beginnings of the Rebellion - does not constitute TPM and AOTC* as having been 'mapped out since 1976'. Hodges et al are blowing smoke...
*two movies which even Lucas lately admitted consisted of a lot of 'filler'
Bingowings said:
It serves as a motivation for getting Mark to go ape...
But other than that, Leia's character arc ends in ROTJ exactly or near where it would have had she remained the Leia of ANH and TESB who was NOT Luke's sister/The Other.
thecolorsblend said:
The story that you say goes nowhere resolves the conflict between Luke and Vader, restores freedom to the galaxy and all but guarantees that Han and Leia will live happily ever after. All that, and Anakin Skywalker is redeemed and dies as a Jedi Knight, reconciled to the good side of the Force and to Yoda and Obi-Wan.
I prefer ANH and ESB over ROTJ myself but how can you argue the story of ROTJ goes nowhere when it covers all that ground?
I would agree that the Leia-As-Sister sub-plot goes 'nowhere'.
Easterhay said:
JW Rinzler is a great writer but this book has got some living up to do. Alan Arnold's long out-of-print Once Upon A Galaxy: A Journal Of The Making Of The Empire Strikes Back (which has uncontestable proof that yes, Star Wars was always intended to be a nine-part saga and a hilarious on-set sequence involving the shoot in the carbon freezing chamber where David Prowse, with hysterically bad timing, tries to get Irving Kershner to read his book on fitness whilst Kersh is trying to juggle about eight balls at once. Prowse is lucky he didn't end up in the carbon freeze himself that day.) has always been, for me, the definitive insight into the making of this film.
yep.
zombie84 said:
You do a good job of side-stepping the point and then re-directing it in your favour with an irrelevant point. Are you Arawn Fenn's brother?
LOL!
It is I, Tosche_Station from the other forums...
