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BeeJay

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Join date
20-Nov-2006
Last activity
16-Jun-2007
Posts
40

Post History

Post
#280882
Topic
Anyone else totally disregard Leia being Luke's sister?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/280882/action/topic#280882
Time
Originally posted by: CO
I am not bothered at all when I watch ESB and Luke & Leia kiss, cause if you watch it in the context of the movie, they don't know they are siblings at that point of the story, why wouldn't they try to get it on! Now if they kissed AFTER ROTJ and they both knew, then I would probably think that was really creepy by Sir George.


The line from ROTJ "Somehow I've always known" is what makes the context weirder. Leia had a subconscious notion that Luke was her sibling, maybe even a conscious suspicion from the very start... and in ESB she kisses Luke full on the mouth. All that aside though I've never had a real problem with the scene.
Post
#280408
Topic
Anyone else totally disregard Leia being Luke's sister?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/280408/action/topic#280408
Time
It's understandable that a few of the original enthusiasts (those who went numerous times to see Star Wars back in summer 1977), don't accept that revelation. Perhaps the two revelations are weak in a sense (especially the Luke-Leia siblinghood), but what about Empire Strikes Back and its prestige in the film industry? That was arguably the best sequel made... Haha... there is no need to remind anyone that sequels are almost invariably inferior to their predecessors. While Star Wars in 1977 changed the public's perception of all film, ESB tends to alter the way we view sequels: there's a proven fact now that sequels have potential in contrast to the originals. That may be subjective... but it's a common enough opinion to the point that it blends into the objective! The story arc of Vader being Luke's father is forgivable in itself then, isn't it?
Post
#280002
Topic
The Secret History of Star Wars
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/280002/action/topic#280002
Time
The author could have used any other religion, and believers of that certain system would have still been riled since it mentioned their beliefs as mythology developed using human creativeness (a buddhist reading The Secret History of Star Wars for instance hypothetically would've ran across how so many fantastical supplements were added to the true history of Siddhartha).

Maybe using religion in general, and not pointing to a specific one, would be less likely to alienate a reader. I'm not sure. I personally didn't have a problem with the mention of Christianity; if we view it in from a wholly objective way, regardless of the fact many of us are Christians, we can admit many things were tacked onto the religion that never appeared in the primal teachings of Jesus Christ or important disciples of that era.

I am going to start reading this e-book again. A few days were spent taking care of mundane, yet demanding tasks like cleaning the house and sorting out paper work. It's always nice to return to a good piece of informative writing after some work.
Post
#279531
Topic
Expanded Universe Unacceptance
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/279531/action/topic#279531
Time
This has been going on for nearly three decades I suppose since Splinter of the Mind's Eye While I've personally not read that book there is a Wikipedia page obviously with the description. The premise is fascinating in that it transitions ANH into ESB. Luke and Leia pair up to meet new enemies/allies on a planet filled with swamps (Han Solo doesn't make an appearance). There's a plotpoint that might be considered a MacGuffen (?) called the Kiaburr crystal which didn't make it into the final cut of Star Wars. All interesting stuff here.

Then I guess LucasArts or whoever commissioned more and more writers to elaborate on the Star Wars universe and further convolute the happenings of the Galactic Civil War, The New Republic, and most recently and to some extent back then The Clone Wars.

Now my familiarity with the EU comes not from reading any of the novels or comics, but through word of mouth, Star Wars databank, Wikipedia, etc. Most of the premises for these things are sometimes entertaining in themselves. But the EU has acquired a bunch of hostility from fans since (assuming) it first was spawned. What do you personally as a Star Wars enthusiast think about the Expanded Universe?
Post
#279524
Topic
The Empire of Dreams Documentary
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/279524/action/topic#279524
Time
Originally posted by: TheCassidy
Originally posted by: zombie84
Originally posted by: Sluggo
I thought it was after Mark got bit by that snake in that out-take he said "He f'n bit me!" It seemed they sort-of muted the audio there. But I can read lips!


I think they forgot to mute it. It's a bit garbled because its just onset audio but i clearly hear him say "he fucking bit me."


Man, what I wouldn't have given to hang out on set with Hamill, Ford and Fisher...

You know that famous behind the scenes shot of them tooling around the Death Star in full costume and Ford is having a smoke? I'd love to hang out with them at that time, before they were all (in)famous and just having fun. Besides, is it just me or is 1977 Carrie Fisher WAY hotter than 1983 Carrie Fisher...to think she dumped Dan Akroyd for that little troll Paul Simon...



It's commonly accepted that Carrie was most attractive in ESB. The pinnacle of her voluptuousness was during that film you could say.
Post
#259653
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/259653/action/topic#259653
Time
Originally posted by: Fang Zei(*all prior texts taken into account*) To give the altered version the expected standard treatment and to give the original unaltered a substandard treatment is not fair at all, is it?


It is somewhat fair, though. Depending on whether a Star Wars fan likes widescreen or anamorphic, it remains relative. For instance: the 2004 DVD's might bother some fans because they were not letterbox widescreen. There has to be fans out there who are equally as disappointed with the 2004 release as many of you are disappointed with the 2006 OOT release (not for the movie changes, but from the POV of letterbox VS anamorphic)

I really like how on some DVD's, they give you the option of if you want FS or WS. A matter of preference determines what we as individuals will choose to watch.

What I'm saying, is that even if the September 2006 OOT was presented in anamorphic widescreen, there no doubt some would be fans on here talking about the disappointment they feel that it wasn't letterbox widescreen. Maybe Lucas chose it that way to fulfill the needs of letterbox fans? The altered OT was all anamorphic widescreen, so he had already appealed to anamorphic fans. Why not be more fair to everyone by also presenting something unique (the OOT finally on DVD) inside of letterbox format?


Post
#259634
Topic
ANH screening with modelmaker Lorne Peterson...WHY ARE THEY SCREENING THE SE??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/259634/action/topic#259634
Time
Originally posted by: Tiptup
Originally posted by: auximenies

On a related note, are there any pics of the chimp and the old woman that were composited (is that a word?) for the Emperor? I mean, before the images were tweaked.


There was no chimp or old woman composited in Empire. That was an actual rubber mask.


The old woman was uncredited... and the eyes were that of a chimp or gorilla. That wasn't a mask.
Post
#259614
Topic
ANH screening with modelmaker Lorne Peterson...WHY ARE THEY SCREENING THE SE??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/259614/action/topic#259614
Time
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Though beside the point of this thread's legitimate objection, I actually agree with Go-Mer that the Falcon liftoff and X-Wing liftoff shots are greatly improved in the SE. Ironically, though, it's the widely oooed-and-ah'd shot of the Falcon lifting clear of Docking Bay 97 - - an additional shot - - that messes with John Williams' original score, and the very dramatic moment previously timed perfectly to music of the film's return to outer space after a long stretch on Tatooine.


I think the score remains relevant even to the additional scenes in the SE. The timing may be a bit altered, but not necessarily for the bad.

(btw: Docking bay 94)
Post
#259491
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/259491/action/topic#259491
Time
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
That's all fine and dandy, but think about it this way: pre-dinner snacks (or appetizers) are generally much less expensive than dinner (or the main course). So why should we have been expected to pay full price for something that was just to tide us over for the real thing?

I never said LucasFilm was full of altruistic saints. It is only natural that they cash in whenever they can. All corporations do that. Does any fan really expect Lucas to pull back the prices like Wal-Mart? People follow a pattern of behavior, and Lucas' pattern is to take advantage of the market. He is only human.

Originally posted by: lordjedi

Um, wasn't the negative scanned in and cleaned for the SE? Wait, don't tell me. They scanned it, cleaned it, and then modified it before making a backup copy, right?


They started going back to do the SE around 1996, possibly very late 1995. That is my guess. If anyone can correct me on this, that is fine.

Following my theory of what LucasFilm is doing, let's be safe and say that if the original negatives were brought out again sometime early this year of 2006. That is a solid 9+ years that the o-negative has been dormant somewhere. During nine years, many things can happen. More grime can stick itself to the film, (nothing is perfect, even the most safest things get damaged,) and the restored scenes they did for the SE could've been lost inside of the computers. Why not go back and start fresh? That has to be what the plan is.

Post
#259479
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/259479/action/topic#259479
Time
Originally posted by: CO

I don't think it is about being spoiled, it just comes down to once you see a better quality of something, for many people they can't go back.

If VHS still existed, and there was no laserdisk or DVD, we would still be in VHS mode of how great the quality is, and wouldn't have a frame of reference of how great DVD quality is. Just think of how when we got a DVD player you could finally skip to any scene in the movie, how you didn't have to rewind the movie, how you didn't have to worry about the tape breaking? Now that is all normal, so now we naturally want better quality as we eventually delved into HD-DVD as they eventually becomes mainstream.






The scale of critique keeps going up as technology advances. That's only to be expected, though. As technology advances, LucasArts will undoubtedly keep up with it. So it's not that LucasArts isn't capable of restoring the originals (they are,) but moreso that they chose to wait. The easy and probably best route was to go for the Laser Disc-quality DVD's, which they decided to do.

You have to realize that it would take a considerable amount of time to clean the negatives, and then start restoring them. That takes a *lot* of time.

So the fans didn't have to wait forever, they went ahead with the Laser Discs. It is sort of like being very hungry before dinner, and eating something small to hold yourself over. That is why I believe the original negatives are being restored as we speak. The eventual results will be the actual dinner, and these Laser Disc-quality ones we have right now are just to hold us over.
Post
#259474
Topic
ANH screening with modelmaker Lorne Peterson...WHY ARE THEY SCREENING THE SE??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/259474/action/topic#259474
Time
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
But the CGI is scanned from the modelwork. It is itself a representation of the modelwork, in the same way that a photographic image of the modelwork is. Neither are the modelwork itself; both are equally images of the modelwork. [/Gomer impersonation]


.




That actually has merit, if you think about it.
Post
#259472
Topic
Left-Handed Explanation for accents in the PT
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/259472/action/topic#259472
Time
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Also, the main alien characters in the OT spoke their own language, rather than Basic, and it was represented through subtitles. There are so many different species and examples in the PT that if they had everyone speak an alien language, nearly all the movie would be in subtitles, and most of the audience wouldn't put up with that.

Hehe, nice Occam's razor comment.



Do you find it amazing, like I do, that Han Solo apparently understood the Common Language, Wookie Language, and Huttese?
Post
#259415
Topic
Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/259415/action/topic#259415
Time
Let's start off by saying I do agree with these:

.... GL didn't always have the intention of making Vader the central hero. Luke was very much the central hero from the start, in GL's mind, until probably well after ROTJ was made.

.... They very much could've made the Clone Wars more central to the movies themselves. The Phantom Menace might actually have been a good time to mention them. However: I do believe that it worked out nicely as is. Not perfect, no, but rather nicely.


Originally posted by: CO

Beejay, you make good points, but I think you misunderstood my statement towards Vaders revelation. In the context of the OOT of SW, ESB, ROTJ, I love 'I am your father.' In context of the OOT, I enjoy the redemption of Vader in ROTJ, as it gives the OOT much depth that few movie sagas have. The bottom line is in the context of the OOT, Darth Vader is NEVER the main character, even when the movie focuses on Luke & Vader in the final hour of ROTJ, it was always about Luke.

Luke was indeed the focal character of the OOT. He was the main protagonist of *all* of Star Wars until the PT rolled around and changed everything.

Originally posted by: CO

What I meant by Lucas going Vader crazy was with the PT, and how he literally made 3 movies to answer why Darth Vader reacted the way he did in the last hour of ROTJ. My point is there is SO much story in the PT that just didn't have to be about Anakin Skywalker, that could have been a plot point.

Those three movies were fundamentally about Anakin/Vader, yes. But I do think there was a fair effort made on Lucas' part to incorporate other things. One was as mentioned already the Clone Wars story arc. Wes's opinion is basically that there wasn't enough of it in the movies. I disagree. There was plenty of battling going on during the movies that were a preview or result of the Clone Wars. Much of the prequel trilogy actually centers around this galactic happening, and many fans need to appreciate that the Clone Wars themselves have very little to do with Anakin/Vader, yet they were still included: which means Lucas & team did consciously deviate at least a bit from just Anakin's viewpoint.

Originally posted by: CO

I agree with you on the characters, the drama of any movie is through the characters, but Lucas put all his eggs in Darth Vaders story in the PT, and now in the saga 1-6, that if you don't LOVE it, it won't be as powerful as the OOT story of just Luke, Leia, and Han.

Yes.

Originally posted by: CO

The PT had so many possibilties storywise that Lucas just touched on. I would have loved for TPM to be about Anakin/Kenobi and essentially that movie tells a story of 2 hours of their friendship set to the backdrop of how Palpatine is planning to become Chancellor. Roughly the same plot as TPM in 1999, yet there is no QuiGon, and there is a 20 year old Anakin is best friends with Kenobi, and IT IS SHOWN ON SCREEN!!!!!! That would have made the duel so much more tragic in ROTS.


That's understandable. And while I dislike defending or making an example of AOTC in any way, shape or form, I want us to remember when Obi-Wan and Anakin are in the lift going up to Padme's quarters near the beginning of AOTC. They exchange some friendly dialogue and it really shines through that they have been close friends even when being master/apprentice. I don't see that close of a friendship between say: Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in The Phantom Menace. It's made clear enough that such a strong and obvious friendship between master/apprentice is very uncommon. In AOTC, Obi-Wan is much like Anakin's father, and by the time ROTS rolls around, Obi-Wan is very much Anakin's brother. Does anyone else see it this way?

While I understand totally that their friendship could have had more screentime than it did, and that Lucas did need to show more accurately how many adventures the two had went on, we need to appreciate what we did get in AOTC in that scene.

If you'll also notice in ROTS when they land on Coruscant and Obi-Wan has to leave, him and Anakin have another exchange of words, *reminiscing* yet again about events that occured to them during their friendship.

Originally posted by: CO

There is so much more story about the Clone Wars, that got shifted to a cartoon. There is another subplot in the deleted scenes with Padme and the birth of the rebellion. If you don't read EU, you wont know any of the Jedi that died in Order 66, so that whole scene lacks the drama.


Whether for good or bad, much of it does have to be left to imagination or the animated cartoon (have you ever seen any episodes of the two seasons?) It's bittersweet: more movie time for other storylines to develop such as the political storylines, and to show other character interactions. But at the same time, like you mentioned, we don't get a whole lot of friendship moments between Obi-Wan and Anakin.

Those we do get, though, are rather good, if not a bit flawed.

Originally posted by: CO

My point is Lucas did not have to make the PT about Anakin, and it is about Anakin, as Lucas said in an old interview, "This trilogy is a character study of how a person goes bad." When marrying the trilogies now, it is so jarring cause that is not what the OT was about. The one great thing about the SW universe is there is always a story to tell, it isn't like other movies series where there just isn't much story beyond the main story, but Lucas is living and dying with the story of Darth Vader, and that is why there is this huge division now of fans.


That combining of the PT and OOT is very personal and ultimately optional. Regardless of what George Lucas says, those two trilogies are very much different entities of film. One trilogy was from 1977-1983, and the other was 1999-2005. Anyone who says the technology/CGI/filmaking is similar enough to make a believable combination of the two is simply wrong. We have to look at the stories themselves.... some of us want Star Wars to be about Darth Vader so we discuss this stuff to help along the PT, while others want Star Wars to be about Luke Skywalker and no one else. The latter are mainly the people like you. Both viewpoints are equally valid.





Post
#259233
Topic
ANH screening with modelmaker Lorne Peterson...WHY ARE THEY SCREENING THE SE??
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/259233/action/topic#259233
Time
Originally posted by: Darth_Evil
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Maybe if Lorne Peterson was actually upset about the SE's I could see the outrage. But his work is still there in the SE's.

He wasn't slighted in any way, and the presence of CG does not take away from his work on the film.

Glad you are back Darth_Evil.


Nice to see you too.

How can you say that replacing his shots with CG does not take away from his work? Of course it does. If tommorrow, someone went into Lord of the Rings and rewrote a few passages, does that take away from Tolkein's work? Gaffer Tape is right about it only being in a few scenarios, but even one would be an insult to most people, I think. But like I said earlier, we don't know how he feels. But it is safe to bank that he didn't like his work being replaced by CGI. I'd have to agree with Number20 on this. This is probably him trying to sell his book, and not wanting to affend Lucas.



The main reason he is going is to promote it book, and to speak about the models he did to the fans. Yes.

I don't think his reasons for going revolve around the screening of Episode IV. That simply doesn't make sense. Peterson has to at least be a proud man, and he deserves to be, regardless of whether they are showing his models off in the movie or not. The book will say enough about all the hard work he did, no doubt.