AntcuFaalb

frank678 said:

I forget, did you determine whether the light trails you see following the ships in space and following some of the motion was already present on the tape or was only in the transfer. I wonder if its on the tape whether theres a way to reduce it to a degree through post processing, when the time comes

It's not on the VHS. It's the Toshiba DVR620's fault; i.e., false MacroVision detection.

frank678 said:

AntcuFaalb said:

frank678 said:

Another forthcoming new release. good stuff.

PS78 might get in the way :-)

Let it! The PS78 is a one of a kind thing. Its still pretty remarkable to me that in places this vhs bootleg tape has held onto more of the original colours than several subsequent official releases. it's a crazy state of affairs.

Oh, I intend to. PS78 is #1 on my list of project priorities.

I agree about the colors. I wonder what the Panasonic AG-1980 will bring out.

frank678 said:

Another forthcoming new release. good stuff.

PS78 might get in the way :-)

captainsolo said:

How well does that usb video capture device work?

I haven't tested it yet, but it should get the same capture quality as the PCI-Express x1 version, as it's using the same chipset.

It'll definitely be slower...

Moth3r said:

The drivers for my old capture card ignored the macrovision signal, but I've heard that ATi drivers do respect it, and will disable capturing if macrovision is detected.

That sucks. Thankfully, the PS78 VHS doesn't have MacroVision protection, as it existed before MacroVision came into existence.

Anyway, I only bought the new TPM for will-it-eat-my-VHS testing and learning how to use the Panasonic AG-1980.

I'm sorry for leaving this thread in silence over the weekend. Most of MD lost power, so my VCR tech had to delay working on the Panasonic AG-1980. I should hear back from him today.

SilverWook said:

AntcuFaalb said:

TServo2049 said:

Isn't the TPM VHS copy-protected? You need to find a way to bypass that if you want to test the machine with that tape.

The TBC inside of the Panasonic AG-1980 should chew right through Macrovision protection.

Some DVD recorders like mine will still refuse to record if they detect the Macrovision signal though. The TBC will stabilize the video, but it can't remove the MV signal.

Do you think the capture-card would do the Anti-MVing? I only plan to use the Panasonic AG-1980 in playback mode.

Update: The TooT() idea won't work with the three different JSC captures, as they're IVTC'd differently and therefore won't sync-up.

I've been working with the Mallwalker-IVTC'd X9 and my results have been, surprisingly, much better than the samples I've already posted. The combination of a modified RemoveDirtMC and DFMDeRainbow really hits the sweet-spot.

I'm shooting for a release in 1-2 weeks. I'll post some samples tonight.

frank678 said:

i'm hoping you didn't have to pay $16,99 to get that phantom menace tape.. even though it is mint   

See my other post. Also, I only paid $7.50!

TServo2049 said:

Isn't the TPM VHS copy-protected? You need to find a way to bypass that if you want to test the machine with that tape.

The TBC inside of the Panasonic AG-1980 should chew right through Macrovision protection.

OK, so everything's here! I love Amazon Prime. The Panasonic AG-1980 is with my VCR tech and should be done tomorrow.

The following's a picture of everything else. Yes, that's a brand new copy of TPM on VHS. I bought it to test with, as I wouldn't feel guilty destroying it.

• RCA AG44 Deluxe Gold Plated Stereo Audio Cable
• Diamond ATI Theater HD 750 USB TV Tuner
• RCA VH976 S-Video Cable

frank678 said:

Thanks TServo2049, I am glad there is someone willing to post reasoned information to counter my often wild misinformation. This idea of colour timing for standard tv sets makes sense to me now I think back to when my Dad brought home a bootleg of Return of the Jedi for one night only kids and it was a little bit of a let down because it was so dark. (except if probably wasnt that dark at all - it was dark relative to what we were used to seeing)

So would the ITV version look too dark on the old tv sets would you think?

I realize I have moved this thread quite far off topic, I apologize and will reign in future off topic posts

 

Frank, it's no problem! I think the discussion's interesting.

frank678 said:

AntcuFaalb said:

 

That's Release v1.1 ;-) Here's what I plan to do:

Release v1.0: Median2() of the five captures, but otherwise unaltered (w/ any of the five captures available upon request).

Release v1.1: Resized v1.0 with gentle filtering; e.g., cropping and possibly some brightness/contrast, HSV, and levels tweaking if the general consensus of the people here is that it's needed.

This entire process will be very transparent and community-led. I may have the PS78 VHS, but it's really our responsibility to preserve the magic it contains.

As you know, an ad hoc committee is forming in #OriginalTrilogy. Is anyone against making this a bit more formal for PS78?

 

I'd say keep an unfiltered release in reserve in case you later want to scale back any changes you made (i.e. do the opposite of George Lucas). Also i'm guessing if you capture the best spread of information at the capture stage the less you will need to do after, which it sounds like you are planning to do in earnest. I'd be wary of making this project too formal that it becomes a chore for you - i'd say the only responsibility on this is don't chew up the tape - and getting all that original colour goodness out would be a bonus

I plan to hold on to all five losslessly-compressed captures of Release v1.0.

Nothing can keep me from finishing this project!

Moth3r said:

Brooks said:

... (Vimeo smoothes it out a bit when streaming, at least on my computer/connection, so you can't really see the interlacing which is quite prevalent)

...

After thousands of man hours and millions of dollars spent, the scientists at Brooks laboratories have tweaked the footage in Premiere to downplay the interlacing, tone down the reddish tone and sharpen things a bit.  They also used neat video to remove some of the noise.  

Alarm bells ringing! 

The scientists at Brooks laboratories don't seem to understand certain video basics, such as the difference between interlaced video and video telecined with 3:2 pulldown.

I had an almost identical conversation with another new member just a couple of weeks ago:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-SWOLT-ANHV8-Preservation-Project/post/580980/#TopicPost580980

Your sample plays with no audio, however the vimeo link plays with a choppiness that suggests you have not carried out an IVTC.  

I think the problem for n00bs (such as myself) is that the word interlace seems to fit our perception of telecined material better than any other. I encounter similar problems with people new to programming all the time; e.g., the difference between a recursive procedure and a recursive process.

TServo2049 said:

Also, a word about aspect ratio correction - as I said before, this is a raw telecine of an anamorphic print with no aspect ratio correction, so it is both squeezed by 50% (approx. 1.20:1) and cropped by the telecine operator to fit the 1.33:1 aspect ratio of the video realm. Thus, the image needs to be horizontally stretched 2x, to an aspect ratio of approx. 2.66:1. Unfortunately, VLC doesn't have such an option.

When you do finish v1.0, could you do an alternative 2x stretched version as well? It would have to be horizontally stretched to 1440x480 to preserve the full vertical resolution.

That's Release v1.1 ;-) Here's what I plan to do:

Release v1.0: Median2() of the five captures, but otherwise unaltered (w/ any of the five captures available upon request).

Release v1.1: Resized v1.0 with gentle filtering; e.g., cropping and possibly some brightness/contrast, HSV, and levels tweaking if the general consensus of the people here is that it's needed.

This entire process will be very transparent and community-led. I may have the PS78 VHS, but it's really our responsibility to preserve the magic it contains.

As you know, an ad hoc committee is forming in #OriginalTrilogy. Is anyone against making this a bit more formal for PS78?

I'm indefinitely postponing Release v0.2 in favor of the v1.0 line.

Update: I've decided to do five losslessly-compressed captures of the VHS. After making sure the frames lineup, I plan to feed all five into g-force's Median2 script.

SilverWook said:

AntcuFaalb said:

Assuming that everything works OK: how many captures should I take with this new setup? Should I do something like an average-of-five or something crazier like five TooT()s followed by an average of those five?

You will definitely want to experiment with the 1980's built in TBC and the noise reduction.

Oh, definitely. It's going to need the TBC.

I'm reading the manual (PDF) right now, actually. I intend on reading it from cover to cover before inserting any tape into this beast.

Doesn't the Faces set have its own distinct set of color issues? I could've sworn...

Assuming that everything works OK: how many captures should I take with this new setup? Should I do something like an average-of-five or something crazier like five TooT()s followed by an average of those five?

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Also, go online and learn how to clean the heads.  It is a delicate operation and you have to be careful or you can damage them.  But if the heads are dirty it affects the quality of the capture.  And don't use one of those clearning tapes -  with some research, you can learn to clean them properly.

I think I'll take it to my VCR tech* first, at least in preparation for this one capture, as it's my most important one.

*He's very experienced; that is, he has an EE degree and has been doing TV/VCR repair since 1974.

Moth3r said:

The ATi Theater HD 750 chipset is supposed to be pretty good. Its 3D comb filter is mentioned over in this thread on Doom9.

Awesome! I decided to go with the portable USB version. (I know it'll be slower and I'm fine with that.) Being USB rather than PCI-Express x1 shouldn't reduce the capture quality, as it's the same chip.

TServo2049 said:

If you can afford it, I say go for it. :)

Done! Both should arrive soon.

SilverWook said:

If you buy a used AG-1980, try a out a couple tapes you can afford to lose in it first. I wore out my first machine back in the days of linear editing, and it could go berserk and eat a tape sometimes.

Oh, definitely. I'll throw a few crappy films I have on VHS in first. I wouldn't think of risking this thing. Don't worry :-)

How's the following setup?

Panasonic AG-1980 Professional SVHS Recorder/Editor (used)*

Diamond ATI Theater HD 750 PCIE Tuner Card (new)**

*My TV/VCR technician told me that if the Panasonic AG-1980 works, then it works, so it being a used item shouldn't influence the quality of the capture.

**The negative reviews for the Diamond card have nothing to do with the hardware. They're the result of some shady rebate scam Diamond tried to pull. The hardware seems to be rated highly by the reviewers.

frank678 said:

I tried to keep my hand off the vlc image adjust settings, I really did, but I could'nt help myself. This is very subtle tweak (no hue change) and makes the colour 'spread out' a little more on my monitor. Adding a bit more yellow to sand, hair, skin etc. However I'm fairly certain this is pretty needless i.e. the print behind this bootleg I think is probably as good as it gets possibly 100% correct and its only the 1978 capture which can't by its very nature display the whole of the 35mm range with one setting.

contrast 0.98, b 0.93, h 360, s 1.02, g 1.38, also sharpened 0.16

Can you rephrase this? I'm not too sure what you're trying to say here.