Anchorhead

MJPollard said:

 once again, a thread derails from its intended purpose into "b*tch about that fracking evil a**hole George Lucas" territory.

Yeah, and it only took two years.

You guys just can't help yourselves, can you?

No, sometimes I can't. 

And for the record, I see discussions of the terrible writing & story of the prequels as being relevant in this discussion because a lot of what makes up the EU is back story to the first three films.  By it's very nature, a discussion about what we like in the novels will sometimes include how poorly those elements were handled by Lucas.

captainsolo said:

I miss wondering what the Clone Wars could have been like. The line of dialogue in Ben's hut was more impacting to the imagination than anything else.

I agree 100%. And I have for the past 34 years.

"Years ago, you served my father in the Clone Wars"

Stop right there!!  Literally.   Perfect.  Nothing else needs to be done with that line - no discussing it, no explanation, - absolutely nothing.  Put the line down and slowly back away.

Leave the universe vast & unknown.  Just like it was in the very first trailer for Star Wars. The way the 1977 film kept it.

But - as usual - Lucas just doesn't get it.  Instead of understanding the depth of imagination & mystery - he chooses to make an entire film about it.  Dumbshit.
[/rant]

Impossible to name a single favorite, but one that always jumps out at me as simply amazing sounding;

Karen Carpenter

Question for the board, if I may.  

I'm currently reading Death Star and really liking it.  One of the chapters introduces the reader to a character named Roothes, who runs a bar on Coruscant.  When some stormtroopers come into the bar, she mentions just in passing that she remembers back when they used to be clones.

From seeing it mentioned in posts around here over the years, I know one of the two prequels I haven't seen establishes that stormtroopers are clones. Obviously that's not the case in Star Wars. 

My question; Is the fact that they eventually aren't clones anymore ever addressed in the last two films, or is the mention in Death Star just Reeves and Perry getting the book in line with Star Wars?  Which I have to say is great.  It's nice to have a book that hasn't been forced into the all-things-Prequel focus of the entire franchise.

CP3S said:

Anchorhead said:

One Last Night in the Mos Eisley Cantina: The Tale of the Wolfman and the Lamproid,  by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens

That story was really hard for me to buy. The story of a romance between the Wolfman and a fleshy looking fanged sock puppet was a little more than my imagination could wrap itself around...

I agree.  For the sake of the story, which I liked otherwise (I dug the Trekian time shifts), I just had to let that part go.  Truthfully, I wasn't even sure what she looked like until I looked her up after the fact. 

Coov said:

OK...  I have been working on these as replacement covers since the others suck so bad.     Thoughts?

I'm going to have to say - they're a thousand times better than what LFL is releasing.  In fact, better than any they have ever released.  Digging the simplicity.  Nicely done, sir. 

ferris209 said:

Things I've learned from this thread:

Invader Jenny was a pretty lady.

Things I hadn't thought about in quite a while, but this thread reminded me of...

Invader Jenny was gorgeous.  Man, I'd forgotten just how beautiful she was.  *swoon*

Seems like such a long time ago.  There are quite a few names I'd completely forgotten about.  I was a quiet newbie back then. 

darth_ender said:

Forget that Luke and Leia are sibs.  Forget that Luke's dad wears black armor. 

Which, by the way, is very easy - considering the FACT that in 1978 none of the three main characters were related.  Not - hadn't been revealed, not - didn't know within the story, not - unreleased Original Vision.  In the simplest of terms - they were separate characters from different parts of the vast mystery that is the endless universe.  A farmer, a princess, and a military leader.  Not the fucking Wizard Of Oz Uncle George morphed it into when he got writer's block.
[/rant]

Man, I haven't had one of those in a while.  Felt good.

Darth Bizarro said:

That's not entirely true, .... At that time, I definitely wanted more.  

...  If people didn't want more, the EU novels wouldn't have sold so well during these same years.  

No doubt, there's more story to tell - or at least other stories to tell.  The questions I'm referencing are the stories he trotted out as the Epic of Darth Vader prequel trilogy.  Did anyone really want .......little Ani...are you an angel....pod races for the sake of toy sales...NOOOOOOOOOOOOO....etc, etc? (sorry, I haven't seen the last two films so I know I'm missing some real Lucasness).

My guess is no, they did not.  They wanted either more "Adventures Of Luke Skywalker, or something with a hell of a lot more substance than the children's bed time story he belched out.

I'm an EU guy, so I know there is more and much better Star Wars to be told.  Lucas is just not the one capable of handling it.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

... the relationship between Vader and the Emperor was much more scary when we DIDN'T know all the crappy PT backstory.  We see how horrible Vader is, and everyone concerned says he's nothing compared to the Emperor, who spends most of his time shrouded in a hood.  But in the PT, Vader is a whiny young brat and the Emperor is essentially a power-hungry crazy guy they goes all Gollum in the process.  Sometimes less is more.

Bingo.  Lucas  answered questions people weren't asking. 

doubleofive said:

I mean, the easiest way to get them would be to just buy the "Limited Edition" DVDs, which have (a version of) the theatricals on them. Its pretty lousy quality, but its better than VHS. Then you could download some of the better restorations.

I agree.  Go with the official release DVDs to secure a stable theatrical version of each. Certainly better than worrying about trying to find a usable VHS tape.  You can always start working your way through the various fan preservations after that.

For the record;  You're looking for the releases pictured below (2006), and in particular, the Bonus Disc from each (also pictured).  The first disc of each set is the SE version of the film - the version you don't want.  I don't know if just the Bonus Discs are available anywhere, from broken sets.

TV's Frink said:

Man, that kid was just doing that two nights ago and it's already an internet gif?   

Unless you're the senor in senorgif.    ;-)

zombie84 said:

 I showed my girlfriend the OT ...She had never seen it

-ANH: We watched the 1977 GOUT version. Overall, she liked it

-ESB: I'm not sure if she liked this better or not

-ROTJ: ...Most of her comments were made in relation to this film, mainly because of its flaws. ...she noticed that the acting and dialogue was bad....Leia being Luke's sister and the whole romance triangle, made her laugh....she said at the end that "it's like they didn't take it seriously anymore"

I love her.

;-)

Mrebo said:

I have a nascent theory I'd like to bounce off you all.

It is that media should not be remade in the same form that it was initially conceived.

I don't think your theory will make it beyond nascent. That said;  I don't completely disagree with it.  In fact I think it's often times a good idea.  My wish is that the remakes would be much more thought out and tested before proceeding.

Film is really all my thoughts apply to, by the way.  With written word, I completely agree.  Books don't need to be rewritten.  For each reader, their mind's eye realizes the story, so in a sense it's always being remade, for lack of a better term.  Plus written stories don't need to be modernized.  Doesn't mean they can't be.  It just means they don't need to be.  Special effects don't need updating in a mental visualization - your imagination doesn't read the story with dodgy special effects.

In a film, new technology can come along that really helps tell the story the way the author intended.  In that respect, remakes can be done very well, often to the point of exceeding the original.  Particularly if the original also strayed from the source material.

Coming to mind quickly as better re-tellings are;
Ocean's 11
3:10 To Yuma
True Grit
King Kong

I'm sure there are others.  However, I will definitely concede that most remakes are inferior.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

blowing all the reveals

That's really it in a nutshell for why watching the prequels sequels first is a poor choice.  George - no matter how much he tries otherwise, says otherwise, or continues to try to force others to do otherwise - cannot change the course of history. A story written & filmed in 2005 cannot come before a story written & filmed in 1977.  George's colossal ego can't seem to grasp that very simple fact.

Star Wars came out before Empire,  before Return, and twenty years before the three sequels that make up the second trilogy.  Watching them in anything other than created order takes away a great deal of their emotion, their depth, and their strength.  That's something Lucas quite simply does not understand. 

A six-part saga is an interesting idea and it's certainly one that can work - provided it's written and then filmed that way (Harry Potter).  The Star Wars series was neither.

Ziggy Stardust said:

I didn't care about any of the characters. Not because I found them uninteresting, but because they weren't the characters I was familiar with.

I found the Phantom characters uninteresting because, to me, they truly were uninteresting.  Most of them seemed completely pointless.  Characters for the sake of having characters on the screen, regardless of story. 

I don't remember them all, but two that really stick out are Jar Jar and the Boss Hogg copy.  In fact, that entire underwater portion of the film is where I fully realized that I wouldn't be following the last three films.  It's one of many story elements that seem like nothing more than unused ideas that never made it past sequel idea sessions - or at least shouldn't have made it passed idea stage.  I felt absolutely no connection, nor had any interest what so ever.  Lucas didn't have a story, proceeded anyway, and it shows.

Ziggy Stardust said:

A Star Wars film without Luke? No thank you.

I'm fine with a Star Wars story without Luke.  The Brian Daley novels are perfect examples of how a non-Luke story can work very well.  Lucas is just the wrong person to attempt it.  He's far too emotionally connected to Franchise, as opposed to good story.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

I've never thought it was a good idea to watch Ep.4 in the context of episodes 1/2/3. 

I agree 100%.  The overall story weakness of Phantom is why I think the films should be introduced to a beginner in release order - not The Saga Of Darth Vader marketing order.  I can't imagine someone getting drawn into a story that starts off with so many uninteresting characters and plot weaknesses & inconsistencies. At times, Phantom borders on software advertisement (big colored 3D balls rolling around a giant field chasing a Roger Rabbit knock-off), not Star Wars Film.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

I've never thought it was a good idea to watch Ep.4 in the context of episodes 1/2/3. 

And it's not at all surprising that many people these days are reluctant to watch Star Wars.  The whole franchise and saga have gotten so silly that people assume the whole lot is a bunch of juvenile silliness.

Absolutely agree.  Star Wars is nowhere near as respected as a film series as it was 25 years ago.  And I'm not the least bit surprised. Hell, I'm an original fan and I don't respect it.  How can I expect outsiders or newbies to respect it enough to give it a look.  Way too much bullshit to wade through.

If I were to attempt to introduce a beginner to Star Wars, Kaminski's book would be required reading ahead of time.  They would have to know the history away from the marketing spin.

Hope it was a good one, man.

Darth Bizarro said:

After many years, I was finally able to convince....

I think that statement is by far the most telling of the whole deal.  If someone needs years of convincing before they watch the films, they probably aren't the best example of how someone will view Star Wars for the first time.

That said;  It's still an interesting look at one person's experience as well as, to me, a perfect example of how different films move different people. I also agree with Tim that our opinions aren't the gold standard anymore than a first-time viewer's are. 

Given the changes in film technology through the decades, the changing views of the director\writer\story teller, and most importantly the culture we live in, six films spanning thirty years are going to be very different. Even when they're trying to tell parts of the same story.

They're also going to be received differently by the changing audience.  1977 was a much more innocent time.  Star Wars was a huge phenomenon because of it.  These days the technology is much more advanced and our culture is much less innocent.  We expect more, so we're harder to reach emotionally.  The films are being released to a somewhat jaded audience. If it isn't awesome, it's ridiculed mercilessly because our culture as a whole expects quite a bit more these days.  DB's sister is a very different eighteen than my generation was.  She's going to be harder to grab than my generation was at that age.

It would be just as interesting to see how someone who heard about them and thought they sounded interesting would views the films and the story.

TV's Frink said:

And back on topic, did anyone see Anne Hathaway on Lopez last night?

I don't know much about her and have never seen any of her work, but just from photos and TV interviews - gorgeous.  Co-stars seem to really enjoy working with her and often mention how grounded she is.  That's 90% of the game in my book.

Now I have a dilemma. 

Heir To The Empire just came in the mail about five hours ago.  But - I'm a few chapters into Death Star now and I'm really digging it.  Dammit, why didn't I just take a week off from reading?  Man, I bought Death Star specifically to toss in my suitcase for my next flight.  But no, as soon as I'm done with Tales  it's - "I'm out of Star Wars books...let me go in the closet and get Death Star out of my luggage.  Not having a book  to read gives me a tummy ache" 

Heaven forbid I read Smithsonian, National Geographic, or Motorcycle Consumer News before I go to bed.   Oh well, I guess I'll proceed with Death Star and see what happens.  It gets to Prequelly - I move on to Heir.

Erikstormtrooper said:

Those aren't actual quotes, are they?

No, just me speculating on what might be driving the guy.  I'll remove the quotation marks.

DuracellEnergizer said:

 Personal canon trumps the malignant tumour that is the "official" canon every time.

 

That perfectly sums up my entire Star Wars universe.  From what my imagination came up with in 1977 - to what it's still coming up with in 2011. For the past 30 years, uncle George hasn't even been a blip on my radar. 

DuracellEnergizer said:

Is ken's horrible spelling deliberate? Is it a subtle form of trolling for him?

He's definitely baiting the board, or he wouldn't keep coming back with his usual MO - bait\complain\apologize\bait\complain\apologize.  However, I'm not yet convinced he's a full-on troll (someone playing a part for their own entertainment).  If he is, he's gone to a lot of trouble to create a back story.  I've seen some of his posts in the comments section of a few New York Times articles.

My guess is that he just plays to whatever board he's on.

OT.com -  Come on guys, I support your desires. I wish the originals were treated properly too, honest I do.  Can't we all just be great Star Wars friends?...  I love the revised history and with my feigned compassion, maybe you will too - then I get to win twice... SEs 3.2 on Blu-Ray - and - OTers being forced to accept defeat via George's constant lying and revising his Original Vision bullshit.

Blu Ray board - Those guys are terrible on OT.com.  They deserve to be treated poorly.  I'll turn them in for disrespecting the master.  We're powerful over here.  We're right. That's why we won. Woo Hoo!! - pre-order.