Anchorhead

zombie84 said: 

The rescue of Han is a hard one to put in. I guess I'd have Luke, now that Yoda is dead, pick up his lightsaber, grab R2D2 and go find that bastard that kidnapped his friend--he has the skills now to get him back. I don't know how I'd stage it--no Tattoine, maybe even no Jabba the Hutt, but I'm not sure about that. This is the world of gangsters and bounty hunters and it would be a dangerous place, not a funny puppet show. The relationship between Lando and Han would be tense, because as far as Han's experience is concerned, he still betrayed him and sold out all his friends, I mean the guy got tortured over it, and ever though Lando helped get him back you don't just get over it over night. I'd have Han die at the end of the film, sacrificing himself--the natural culmination of his arc, a selfish loner who learns the value of friendship and, in the end, gives everything his has, his very life, to save those he loves. Maybe he could even do it to save Lando, to show he's finally gone beyond his grudges and give himself for something greater than himself.

 Finally, at the end of it all, the heroes stand in a bittersweet victory. Han is dead, Leia will go off on her own and have some part in the new order, they have a revolution to control and many fallen comrades to mourn. And Luke, most of all, is at a crossroads. .....

 

Anyway, those are some of my first thoughts on how to make the film more interesting.

Fuck! - that would have been so much better a story than what we were given. Your take is much deeper than the children's bed time story Uncle George burped out.

In the past I've somewhat given dude the benefit of the doubt, even though I did put him on ignore several months ago.  However, without logging in, I was just giving the board a quick peruse before I shut the house down and settled in for the night to read Heir. 

I'm calling troll on the character and the act.  Hats off to whoever you really are, TFNer.  You had us going for a while.

I'm Anchorhead and I approved the above conversation.  ;-)

All goofing aside;  Even though I do sometimes touch on it, you guys have no idea how much I hate the idea of the Prequels - as they were released.  The story, execution, casting, Lucas' revision of history, etc. I find it all vulgar.

A prequel story? - absolutely.  Prequel story Lucas released? - absolutely not.

Point taken, fellas.  Fixed (I hope).  ;-)

I can't imagine ever doing that. 

Probably not even a blip on the radar for most people these days, but I've been a huge America nerd since the 70s.  America was Gerry Beckley, Dan Peek, and Dewey Bunnell.  Impossible to quantify the number of times I've listened to their music, or how often I still do.  It's in fairly regular rotation. 

The greatest hits album (below) is my default motorcycle maintenance music.  I keep a copy of it in my old CD player out in the garage for days when I'm out there doing oil changes and such.

Since it's the only album of theirs that I have on my work machine, I will loop it today. In fact, I'm listening to it now. RIP, Mr. Peek.  You're part of the soundtrack of my life.

Side note;  The cover was drawn by Phil Hartman, the comedian.

For the unwashed;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIycEe59Auc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSAJ0l4OBHM

.

American Hominid said:

Anchorhead - your post made me want to watch Graffiti, which made me check out the Wiki page too... according to that, George wanted Marcia to cut the movie but ended up doing most of it himself after the studio-chosen editor left.  ?

I was going by an in-depth piece on Marcia Lucas, written by Michael Kaminski on his Secret History Of Star Wars site. The full article is here;  http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/marcialucas.html

This is the portion dealing with the editing of American Graffiti;

Lucas looked at Graffiti footage every day and explained what he wanted from Marcia and Fields--the only time he ever spoke to his wife during the hectic post-production schedule. Walter Murch came onboard as sound editor, and they together collaborated on the difficult task of cutting the music to fit the scene.

Marcia argued George out of his original approach to the structure of the film, which depended on a more rigid construction of cross-cutting the different narratives, and she also was crucial in giving scenes longer time to breathe, as Lucas then insisted on cross-cutting much more frequently (as seen in Attack of the Clones--Marcia's criticism was that the scenes either never developed or they lost their dramatic momentum by aborting so quickly). 

Verna Fields left once the rough cut had been assembled, since she had another job lined up, but the film was almost an hour too long, so for the next six months Marcia cut the film down along with Lucas and Murch. For the next cut, Marcia listened attentively to George and made the film the way he instructed. It was a disaster.

Because of the interlocking narrative structures, the film could not simply be trimmed up in a conventional sense because removing one scene, or part of a scene, affected the next narrative thread and threw off the rhythm of the film. Lucas remarks: "You literally can have a film that works fine at one point, and in one week you can cut it to a point where it absolutely does not work at all." [xxxix] Now it was Marcia's turn at bat- -she took over and re-cut the film on her own this time, while George worked with Walter Murch on the sound design.

By January 1973, Marcia had assembled the film for a test screening. The release would be controversial--the test audiences absolutely loved the film, yet the studio executives thought it was terrible.....

Eventually, the film was released, though the studio trimmed off a couple minutes of footage. It nonetheless won rave reviews........American Graffiti was a powerhouse hit that was an absolute audience-pleaser. It grossed over $100 million dollars, and when calculated in terms of budget-to-gross may be the most profitable film ever made

The highlight is mine.  I think that is the thing that made Star Wars work so well. The time the audience is given,  so they can feel the emotions.  To me, that is a crucial element missing from  Return & Phantom (can't speak to the last two films).

Glad to hear/see you're enjoying HTTE... the feel of the world (with respect to the OT as a whole, not just SW77, which probably matches better with the Daley novels and such) and the characters is pretty spot-on, I think.

Man, I am digging it.  Got Dark Force & Last Command on order.  Side note;  When Mara is having dinner, she has a glass of wine with it - not a glass of fermented otranian hun fruit nectar, or some such bullshit from Reeves and Perry.  Zahn is about story, not nerd fluff.

By the way, what did you think of American Graffiti?

I might eventually.  It has been about twenty years since I gave it a look.

SilverWook said:

 

...Or a Slave Leia. ;)

Well, that part is ok.

;-)

American Graffiti is a top ten film for me, so I agree it's a great story.  However, that wasn't originally the case.  From the articles I've read about it, it was in danger of not being released the way George had cut the thing.  It was a mess until Marcia got involved and re-edited it.  Same is true for several areas of Star Wars. My take has always been that George is a great idea man, but really struggles to flesh out a story. 

THX-1138 I've never seen all the way through.  I've given it a look a few times, but never found it to be terribly interesting. 

xhonzi said:

I think/hope you'll enjoy Zahn's EU.

So far, I'm digging it.  Some of that may be the real life passage of time as I catch up with my heroes all these years later. 

It's the very same reason I really like the fourth Indiana Jones movie.  Indy isn't the same 40-year-old rogue we met in Raiders - and I'm not the same 18-year-old high school kid I was back then.

In Heir, Luke isn't the same innocent farm boy he was in 1977 - and I'm not the innocent 15-year-old kid I was back then.

I particularly enjoyed the chapter where Luke is up in the middle of the night, unable to sleep, sitting outside looking out at the city, and pondering the journey & the future.  Something that I do regularly myself. That chapter set the hook for me.

Just like Indy in Kingdom, Luke is taxed with a much heavier life at this point in the story.  Because the very same thing is true for me in the real world, the story connects with me on a level that it can't for young people.  You can't guess the passage of time, nor can you pretend it.  In fact, you can't even really imagine it properly.  You have to actually pass through it to feel it.

Zahn's style comes across as much deeper and more serious. Which is what I was looking for.

theprequelsrule said:

Quite frankly, I would trust the judgement of the senior film crew from 1976; the cutting of these scenes were for the best.

I think that following the droids almost completely uninterrupted for the first 30 minutes or so was one of the most bold and unique decisions made in the film.

Certainly no argument from me regarding the 1977 film.  There isn't a single thing I'd change. Being introduced to the universe through the droids was very cerebral.  With no substantial dialogue for so long, we're left to take in the strangeness of this new world without having it explained**.  I thought it worked perfectly. 

My point with the added scenes in the NPR version was that I feel like Luke is introduced appropriately.  Now that I know the story, the additional depth is welcomed. It's my go-to.  I like the deeper story.  A fan edit would be interesting alright, but not a must-have.  For a first timer - Star Wars77 should always be the introduction.   

**That mystery and imagination-driven aspect was clearly a fluke for Lucas.  He quickly abandoned that style completely and went into uber-explanation mode.  I've said it before, I'll say it again - he's a very poor story teller.  He got lucky in 1977.

RATLSNAKE said:

...a display "experience" ....It's things like this that make people look down on us Star Wars fans.

I agree 100%.   Those fully-costumed adults speaking and acting as though it's all real - that shit is tough to watch.  Actually, it's beyond that.  It's just plain embarrassing.  I get the same feeling whenever I see Lucas explaining the saga as though it were real. 

captainsolo said:

... or make a visual companion to the radio drama. (Anchorhead that would be right up your alley...;)

 Because I'm more familiar with the larger story now, I'd dig a version like that.  It could be done (provided you have the footage).  The story starts one day sooner than the film, but it's still handled in such a way that the central character is introduced properly.  The isolated\outcast\dreamer farm boy is established immediately and is the main focus of the first chapter.

It opens with him listening to a recruiting presentation to the Imperial Space Academy, alone, out in that tech dome we all know so well.  A friend comes over and then they go to visit all their other friends (Camie, Fixer, Deke). Once they're there, Deke makes fun of him for listening to the recruiting presentation and  they all tease him about his higher aspirations. The friend that came over to visit him is the first one to turn on him. 

That all establishes the character we know and sets the ground work for his being seen as an outsider, even by his only friends.  They also manage to name check Biggs so that you know Luke misses him.  I don't know about there ever being footage shot for anything like that.  I'd have to reread Kaminski's book or the original script.

The second day into the story is the part we all know from seeing the footage through the years -  the vaporator scene - "shape it up you guys" - watching the space battle - Biggs coming back - the two of them saying goodbye, etc. 

I've read plenty of articles and interviews through the years discussing the pacing of the 77 version and their thoughts on introducing the characters in the way & order they did.  I certainly have no issue with the 77 film.  It works very well.  However, I've grown to prefer the NPR.  A fan version rearranged to fit the NPR would be something I'd certainly give a look.

EyeShotFirst said:

Anchorhead said:

 It's how I started my life-long practice of full-film audio rips for listening while driving and flying.

 

I used to sit next to my television with a little cassette recorder and record movies. I no longer feel alone.

You're not at all, man. Been there many times myself.

When I was finally able to watch a movie on my giant 26" TV, with the sound through my Marantz &  Magneplanar system - it was nerd heaven.  ;-) 

My Teac deck was the final piece of nerd arrival.  Truth is, the sound of films has always been more moving to me.  Even now, I listen to my favorite films much more often than I watch them.

Had a pair of these in the late 70s\early 80s.  It was a hell of a way to experience Star Wars, Alien, and Blade Runner way back when.

And my rips were made with this;

Seems like a thousand years ago.

;-)

I have to say, sometimes I'm surprised at just how far out of the loop I've fallen.

Bingowings said:

What if you had read the book in 1978.........Gungan......all those references........."Poodoo" .............."Unlearned what you have learned"

Besides - Gary Kurtz and Marcia wouldn't have let George get away with such shitty ideas in the 70s, nor would Alan Dean Foster have ghost-written that shit for him.

See You Auntie,

Well done on having the Humdinger as your signature.  That may be this forum's finest hour.

I tip my hat to you, sir.

I had to jump ship.  I made it through 15 chapters before I had to say goodbye to the Prequel references.  I was fine for a few chapters with an occasional name-check, but after a mention of Grievus, Mustafar, a couple of mentions of Gunguns, and a few other things I know are Prequel, I was quickly losing interest.

The final straw was last night, near the end of chapter 15.  When one of the main characters gets a promotion to work on the Death Star while it's being constructed, he asks his commander - "No poodoo, sir?". 

I reread the line, stopped, pondered whether or not to continue with a book I was already losing interest in, removed my book marker, closed the book, got out of bed, walked into the other room, and pulled Heir To The Empire off of the shelf. Two chapters in, It's much more what I was looking for.  It's also written with a little more serious feel.  

Regarding the prequel references;  My issue is two-fold.

1.  The novel had a feeling of everything must be viewed from a Prequel point of view.  The references seemed forced and were completely unrelated to the story.  Either by direction from Lucas, who does get peripherally involved with EU - or - maybe Reeves and Perry are just big fans of the Prequels and wanted both sets of films to be one big happy family.  The cynic in me says marketing (Lucas).  Maybe it was both.

2. I'm a linear guy.  Events that took place in 1977 came before events that took place in 2000 - even in a film franchise.  Having a prequel story is fine, but I won't ever rearrange my feeling of actual time to accommodate it.  For me, the story of the construction of the Death Star should be told from the 1977 point of view.  There is plenty of story there without having to pander to the prequel fan base or serving the franchise marketing machine.

While not a deal-breaker, I was also wearing out on the silly references. Just because it takes place in another universe, not every single thing has to reflect that.  It has a few too many instances of metaphors that mean nothing to the reader, which to me negates the point of even having a metaphoric reference in the first place.  "The commander knew so & so was slower than an ovalangk during murjonen season" or "Val woke up hungry for some esssontan meat and gghrewq eggs".  Honest to God, it was like reading a damn Ikea catalog.  Please.

I should have listened to my dog.  True story; Just after I bought the book and before I started reading it, he pulled it out of my bag while I was at work one day and chewed a big chunk out of a corner of the back, tore up the last 20 pages or so, messed up the spine, and tore the cover.  I was just going to struggle with that last chapter if I got that far.  Turns out it won't be an issue.

Bingowings said:

Coming soon Commander Ben Dover and Captain Ivor Biggun.

[off-topic]
Many years ago, when I worked in a large printing facility, we were required to wear dress-style uniforms because we were a high-tech printing facility. Neatness and formality were the order of the day because our customers were high-end (Microsoft, Apple, Norton, Ashton Tate, etc). 

I thought it would be humorous to make a custom name patch for my uniform. I put a lot of work into it and it matched the real ones perfectly.  I replaced my name with the name Ben Dover.  About a week later, the supervisor for the California operations was in town to visit the three plants that made up our division.

I don't have to tell you - I got dressed down pretty severely for that one.  Seems they failed to see the humor.  Hey, when you're 23 you sometimes do stupid stuff.  It did look real though.
[/off-topic]

Now that I look at them a little closer, maybe it's best that one of them didn't make it onto the toy store shelves.

Bingowings said:

They do when their banks statements turn up.

He'll be here all week.  Please tip your waitress on the way out.

I agree.  It's not about fixing mistakes at all.  The issue is that the Humdinger is just proof that Lucas treats his entire fan base the same - him first, them second.  Now the SE lovers are about to get the same treatment us OOT lovers received - the least amount of effort possible.  A previous release ported to new a format and then advertised as new release.  Shameful.