Anchorhead

Harmy said:

I wonder, Anchorhead (assuming you still read this thread) what you thought about the Hand of Thrawn books in the end. And did you read any of the other Zahn's STAR WARS books?

Because I'm EU-only at this point, yes I follow this thread regularly.  I started Spectre Of The Past a few days ago and I'm really digging it.  Vision Of The Future will follow.  After that, I'll go in order of release for the Zahn books.  However, I will be skipping one of them that is somewhat Prequelesque but I can't think of the name of it right now.

darth_ender said:

 Clones have been overused and are about as cliched as any sci-fi plot device, but I personally think it mirrors Luke's challenge in ESB in the cave nicely, and also makes use of seemingly lost...er...artifacts (trying to preserve some surprise for the unenlightened) in the creation of Luuke.

I also thought the artifact was an interesting twist, as was it's final destination.  ;-)

 Mara's arc is fantastic and deep.  I found both major antagonists, Thrawn and C'boath, worthy successors as primary villains.  Neither is either the Emperor, Vader, or even Tarkin, yet they are worthy opponents with their own unique dangerous traits.

Agree.  The antagonists are as worthy as any in the films.  They certainly have more depth. Personally, I've always felt the emperor was a poorly written character.  A cardboard cutout.  People's memories of him in the Zahn books are handled much better than the actual filmed character was in Return.  

Mara, as I mentioned before, should be "How To Properly Create And Develop A Character 101"  Her past, her internal struggles, her arc, etc - all handled perfectly. I really dug Karrde also.  Glad to see he's still around in Spectre.

As for Spectre of the Past, I enjoy Zahn's writing, but for me personally the EU had been ruined by the time this book came out, and efforts at redeeming it on his part could only go so far.

I've attempted to read some really bad EU and ended up throwing it in the trash (literally) after a few chapters, so I know I'm entering some sketchy territory.  I have enough Zahn to hold me for a while.  As to whether or not I venture into other EU authors;  I'll have to defer to those around here who are much more versed in the later EU.

If I don't read any more, the Zahn novels will more than suffice for my Star Wars universe. To me, they're that good.

The Last Command

*No spoilers*

I finished the Thrawn Trilogy last night with the completion of the third book The Last Command.  In a word - unbelievable!  Absolutely the best anything to carry the name Star Wars I've ever read.  Zahn has surpassed Daley as my go-to for personal canon.  This trilogy really captures the magic I felt back in 1977.  Command was particularly hard to put down.  The character depth of Luke, Mara, and Leia was fantastic. The character arc of Mara made the novel for me.  Zahn is definitely Star Wars for adults. No doubt the Thrawn Trilogy will be a yearly read for me.

Next up is Spectre Of The Past, which I started literally about 60 seconds after I finished Last Command, around 3:00 AM last night.  My EU and personal canon continue to grow. Reviews as the rest are completed.

Side note;  Last Command also carries a second distinction in my world.  It was my first foray into e-books.  My thoughts so far are that nothing can replace an actual book, but I was much more comfortable with it than I thought I'd be.

I have the Thrawn trilogy in paperback, but decided to give Kindle reading a try with Command so I could read later into the night without keeping anyone awake with my book light. It went well enough after a day, so I went ahead and downloaded Spectre and Vision.  I'll get used paperbacks for travel, but electronic is going to be fine also.

DuracellEnergizer said:

^I'm not really sure Luca$ interferes with the EU all that much. Most of the prequelization of the EU can be attributed to the PT fanboys who write the actual stories, methinks.

I know he had some loose story guidelines for the early EU, but you may be right about the Prequelized novels.   His followers are so dug in, so devoted to his new vision, that he may not even have to get involved anymore.  They're writing it for him and for themselves. 

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

 when discussing things that we don't like, it is natural at some point to blame the perpetrator

That's particularly true regarding Star Wars. To me, Lucas has an unhealthy need to control every single aspect of the films, shows, later EU, SEs, re-edits, box sets, revised history, etc, etc.  Absolutely nothing is released that hasn't had his input.    You can't criticize post-1983 Star Wars and not criticize Lucas because they're one and the same.

darth_ender said:

Why is it that this thread stands alone as a defense for GL among a sea of Lucas smash and bash, and my thread that actually better fits in the general mood of the General Star Wars Forum gets locked?  I think the sarcasm might have been a little too hard to detect.  I've got my beef with the guy too, but at the same time I appreciate him better than at least 75% of the folks who frequent this site.  My other thread was merely a commentary on what every thread seems to turn into in this forum.

 

Since you asked: I don't see that every thread devolves into Lucas bashing.  No doubt we have a few members who are dug in pretty deep, but the site isn't the bashfest you make it out to be. This very thread is testament to that fact. Its also a perfect example of how people sometimes need to be able to sort through the static, while also taking note of where it usually comes from.

Regarding your sarcasm: Not too subtle. Just not appreciated.

SilverWook said:

Someday, we need to band together, rent out a theater or auditorium, and have an OT weekend or something.

It's more fun seeing these movies with a few hundred fellow fans. :)

If there were ever an official OT.com gathering\screening, I'd try to find a way to get there.  All these folks in one room, man? - priceless.

TV's Frink said:

Honestly, this is one of those threads where the topic is either in Ric Olie territory...

Seems like as good a reason to move it off-topic as any, but it won't happen.

Off-topic is one option.

I have not.  For the record;  My move to EU-only, which has been helped by & guided by this very board, isn't because of DVD quality.  It's because of story and characters. 

Star Wars77 will always be part of my world, whether I watch it anymore or not (nearly 5 years and counting).  I've thought about checking out Harmy's or DJ's work and I probably will eventually.  The samples I've seen (clips and screengrabs) look great. 

I just want deeper, adult stories and deeper characters.  Lucas can't deliver that.  In fact, he's spent years trying to do just the opposite.  Even going as far as rewriting and weakening previous characters specifically to make them less adult and more childlike. 

I have no interest in that anymore. Truth is, I didn't really have any interest in it back in 1983. 

No doubt, 600 isn't enough to make a sales or future release decision difference.  However, it's at least a start on getting the truth out there about Star Wars and Lucas' lying about it's history.

The Facebook page and Kaminski's site & book will be out there for people to reference and educate themselves with.  People will always be free to join whichever team they want, but they'll know the truth - whether they want to admit it or not.

The truth about Star Wars and exposing Lucas for the petty egomaniac that he is - that's all I'm really concerned with any more. My Star Wars universe is now solely EU-based.

TV's Frink said:

Judging her solely on her TPM performance is like...

I'll admit to not being terribly familiar with her work.

Regarding the character of Padme; I found her so poorly created\written\performed  that she has now become my litmus test for possible EU. 

If I'm pondering an EU read, I go to Wookiepedia and look under the characters portion of the title.  If Padme exists at all in the world of the novel, I pass.  Irrational maybe, but I dislike the character that much. 

So far, it looks like I'm ok on at least four more Zahn novels.

TV's Frink said:

And let's face it, TPM was in no way his fault. Dude was ten. It's Lucas' job to either direct a good performance out of him, or hire someone better

I agree 100%.  The acting in Phantom was laughably bad at times.  The rest of the time it was just plain hard to watch.  However, in a franchise where a single person has total control of every scene, every line, every camera angle - every single aspect , the onus is on that one person to make something worth watching.  In the case of the Star Wars franchise post-Return, that one person is Lucas. To me, he failed miserably.  Jake Lloyd, while being a terrible child actor reading equally terrible dialogue, was the least of the problems with that film.

That's where Lucas got lucky with the OT.  He happened upon three leads who knew what they were doing.  With Lloyd and Portman, he used two people who have zero depth.  They're script readers who, to me, are incapable of emoting depth.

*edit*

I should point out that I've never seen the last two films, so I'm basing my criticisms of Portman on the one film only. 

Jambe Davdar said:

This is why I lose motivation:

http://t.co/8nH2NbvI

I'm a member on that board, but don't visit very often.  The mods are fine and so are a great many of the members.  However, there are too many people like the member who tried to derail the thread who, in my opinion, are given too much rope. 

To me, they over moderate in some aspects (avatars, signatures, and duplicate threads) and under moderate in others (trolls are given way too many chances).  There are really only about 5 people I ever engage in conversation there and like I said earlier, maybe once or twice a year these days.

There are lots of people over there who would be very supportive of your project.

SilverWook said:

Dvd talk review...

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/52175/people-vs-george-lucas/

I'm much happier this year now that I have a clear-cut favorite team to pull for in the series.  As an Astros fan, I've seen a ton of Cardinals games in person so I know they can be tough. They've more than proven that this post season as well.  This one will be a battle alright.

Rangers in six.

Tobar said:

Well color me interested.

Make that two.  Good luck with it.

Dark Force Rising

I'm already half way through the third novel in the Thrawn Trilogy and didn't yet post my review of the second.  Man, I'm falling down on the job.

No spoilers.

As was expected, great stuff.  Very pleased with the thorough, adult nature in which Zahn handles Star Wars. My thoughts  from the first novel still apply;

No cutesy bullshit, no droid antics, no children's comedy.  A serious science fiction story continuing in the vein of the first two films, but with much deeper character development.  Mara was particularly well written.

That goes doubly so for Mara.  Possibly even more of a focus on her in this novel and that's just fine with me.  She's fantastically written and the character development through the course of the first two novels should be the paradigm on how to handle character development and depth. 

Loved the story of the lost Katana fleet!  Again, sorry these were never made into non-Lucas-involved films. They read like screenplays.

Digging Last Command as well.

Add Maul to my list of "I don't understand the cult following". Poorly written, poorly realized, and created solely for visual impact (like so much of the prequels). Just standing in the background looking bad-ass, then twirling an oh-so-cool double light saber a few times. The prequel version of Boba.

The only thing surprising about Maul being resurrected is that it didn't happen ten years ago. It is, however, just in time for the 3D hype juggernaut. Well done, George.

An aside; About 5 years ago, someone gave me a Darth Maul cardboard stand-up. Not sure what it was originally for. It was still in the plastic sleeve, in two pieces (I think you had to attach the lightsaber portion or an arm or something). Not having any interest in it, but thinking I might try to sell it on ebay one day, I put it on a shelf in the garage and forgot about it. A couple of years ago I came across it while looking for something else. I folded it into a small wad and threw it in the curbside recycling container.

I've not been one to download any preservations in the past because I don't watch the film version very often. The GOUT is enough for me. However, this is a version I'd definitely get a copy of. It was a very big deal at the time and Star Wars as a story was still very clean.

Bob, thanks again for your help with the magazine scans and welcome aboard. I think some of the younger members here will love going through your collection of 70s and 80s magazines. Very interesting look at how innocent the franchise was at the beginning.

Sorry about the 16mm-8mm confusion. There are some 8mm aficionados here who will be very interested in hearing about your print.

If I may, for just a second;  With God as my witness, CO is not a sock account of mine.

;-)

I suppose I went through that same feeling of being deflated many years ago. Which is really funny now considering how little Lucas had weakened the story at that point.

I eventually made peace with it and, as Boost and Erik said, picked what was meaningful to me and said goodbye to the rest.  Trust me, it's easier than you think and it makes the parts you still dig mean even more.

This is my personal canon;

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Whats-your-Personal-Canon/post/529371/#TopicPost529371

Not much by Star Wars standards, but huge compared to one-film-only stories.  I can't even begin to complain.

The guy replied and sent several high-res scans. There's no doubt someone could come up with a great HBO DVD cover using the pages he scanned.

He is very nice and also very interested in the preservation work.  He also has a 16mm copy of Star Wars that he sometimes shows in private screenings.  If we have any members in France, maybe you can meet him in person and go to one.  I gave him a link to our site, so maybe he'll join and give us a look.  He sounds like a wealth of info and sympathetic to our cause.

Here are the files he sent;

http://s1127.photobucket.com/albums/l634/Anchorhead/HBO%20preservation/

Photobucket downsized them a touch, but they're still very good.  If you need the originals, PM me with an email address that accepts large attachments.

No two ways about it, the one piece of music that has always been the most moving to me is The Desert and the Robot Auction.  It instantly struck an emotional chord in me when I was 15 and it still does now.  To me, it perfectly conveys the feeling of being in the middle of nowhere on a desert planet.

SilverWook said:

Ask them about the January '83 issue if you get a reply. I used to have that one too, and the Star Wars graphic for the "coming next month" ad on the back cover is pretty neat.

I haven't heard back yet, but it looks like he only has two HBO magazines.

http://starwarsmagazines.online.fr/hbo.html

His collection is very interesting and a great look back at how big a deal Star Wars was.  It's a nice reminder to me of how long, as fans, we had to wait for the tiniest snippets of information and connection to the film.  Very different from today's hyper-connected, hyper-saturated fan base.

http://starwarsmagazines.online.fr/home.html

All I can hear I me mine, I me mine, I me mine.
Even those tears, I me mine, I me mine, I me mine.
No one's frightened of playing it
Everyone's saying it,
Flowing more freely than wine,
All through your life, I me mine.