Anchorhead

Warbler said:

they didn't hold the girl at gun point. 

No, they lied to her instead.

Warbler said:

she did agree to the trade.

Incorrect.

Warbler said:

A 14 year old girl can't consent to such a trade

And she didn't.

Phillies fan - The events that took place that evening haven't been contested by the Phillies. They wanted the ball and they found a way to get it from her - "we'll hold the ball for you until you come back later and meet Ryan Howard and he'll sign it for you...here, have some cotton candy and go back to your seat" - she comes back later, the team is gone and a security guard gives her a different ball.

Warbler, you can look at this from any angle you want - the Phillies wanted that ball the moment it went over the wall and they never had any intention of letting her keep it. They thought getting it from a 14-year-old girl would be easy and that she would just go away when they lied to her and left the stadium with her baseball. They were incorrect.

It's clear from your posts and conflicting statements that you see your team as above any sort of wrong doing - no matter how many times it's been proven otherwise, by several people who were there, as well as being decided in a court of law.

There is more than enough documented evidence, from very credible sources, stating what happened. It's unfortunate you've chosen to ignore it.

TV's Frink said:

Anchorhead said:

TV's Bartman said:

Bartman?  We're both yellow - end of similarities.

TV's Bartman said:

...man, if the Cubs were any good, I would *so* grab my crotch.  More than usual, I mean.

Man, you guys get the pennant and you will have earned that crotch grab. ;-)

I also follow the Astros closely - I fully understand painful-to-watch seasons and let down.

Warbler said:

My question is, when they tried to trade the signed ball for the home run ball,  where was the mother?  

They didn't try - they just did it.  That was after they lied to her, by the way. They told her if she left the ball in the clubhouse and came back after the game, she could meet Ryan Howard and he would sign it for her.  When she came back, she didn't get to meet anyone - a security guard handed her a different ball. She had no say in the matter, she was never given a choice. Her mother wasn't at the game, only the two kids were escorted to the clubhouse.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/09/florida.baseball.lawsuit/index.html

Warbler said:

....if Anchorhead takes back what he tried to intimate about Ryan Howard. 

I didn't intimate anything.  I said I didn't like the way the Phillies handled this situation and then I posted a link to the story.

For the record, I hope Ryan Howard eventually hits 763 home runs - so that the record no longer resides with a roid-raged cheater.

Warbler said:

If you want to make this about character ok, lets do it. 

If you want to make this into some sort of anger-driven shitfest, then you can take your bravado someplace else. You and I are fans, nothing more.  We don't own the teams, we don't manage the teams, nor do we play on the teams.

Your criticisms of the Yankees are well known and agreed with in most sports circles. I agree with them also.  The team has done a great many things I'm not at all fond of. However, I don't condemn the players who are uninvolved. 

Regarding the new stadium and increased ticket prices - this past season was the first one in many years where I didn't fly back to attend several Yankees games. I'm not ok with the 76% increase in ticket prices. For the record, A-Rod is one of my least favorite players.  I thought the money could have been better spent.

I'm aware of your past issues here and I was around for a few of them.  I see the hate-filled anger showing itself in your reply to my post - a post that was fandom, not hate. I stated I didn't care for how Howard or his people handled the event and I posted a link for people who may want to read about it.  If you want to continue on this course of crotch-grabbing and venom, then you better be ready. 

I can't stress this last point enough - be very careful with any hate you direct my way. I'm not the Yankees, I'm a fan of many of the players on the team - you need to remain clear on that distinction.

Warbler said:

Yankees suck! Yankees suck! Yankees suck! Yankees suck! Yankees suck! Yankees suck! Yankees suck!

Yankees suck! Yankees suck! Yankees suck! Yankees suck! Yankees suck! Yankees suck! Yankees suck!

Yankees suck! Yankees suck! Yankees suck! Yankees suck! Yankees suck! Yankees suck! Yankees suck!

That is an incorrect statement.

I haven't weighed in on this thread yet, but I shall do so now. Baseball is nearly as big a passion for me as motorcycles, and has been for just about as long. As a former New York City resident, I shouldn't have to tell you guys who I'm pulling for. ;-)

Yankees cap I was wearing in the right field bleachers when Jeter hit his first grand slam? - Check

Yankees t-shirts, one for every day? - Check

Yankees cap on my desk at work? - Check

Yankees flag on a flag pole at my house? - Check

Should be a good one. The Phillies have a few hitters who can't be taken lightly. Lee will our toughest game.

All that said, even if I weren't a Yankees fan, I'd pull for whichever team was against them - based solely on how poorly Ryan Howard & Co handled this event;

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20091008_Throwing_it_back__Howard_homer_returned.html

Oh, there's no doubt it's not perfect - far from it. But back then we didn't notice or expect it to be.  Some films were very realistic and gritty, you're right on with that.  However, there was still an innocence that was genuine & acceptable. TV is a great barometer of the times as well.

To me, that was one of the things that was so shocking about Luke's burned family being shown. As graphic as those few seconds were, I think it would be a much harsher scene these days.  Cop films - French Connection, Serpico ( a huge favorite), Dirty Harry, etc - had already made the jump to realism, but not at the level and frequency of today.  Plus, those films were aimed at a different audience, not teenagers. A great deal of the world was still ok with innocent, happy ending fairy tales.

Besides - isn't our imperfect golden cow what we're all trying so desperately to get a proper release of?

;-)

When I was a senior in high school, Alien was released.  I loved it immediately.  The story, the isolation, the darkness, the damp eeriness, the Goldsmith score, the characters, the dialogue - all of it.  I immersed myself in it.  I saw it more times than I can count, bought and wore out the score, bought the making of book, the story-in-pictures book, one-sheet, etc, etc. It was also the very first VHS of a film I ever bought. I could transcribe the film from memory.

Watching it on tape, at home, late at night for the first time was a huge deal.  I remember that excitement of having one of my favorite films on VHS as though it were yesterday. To this day, Alien is one of my top ten films of all time.  It always will be.  The soundtrack has been part of my world since 1979.  These days it's joined by the entire audio track ripped to MP3, along with the DVD.  Alien has been a huge part of my world since it's birth.

Tonight, when I got home from work, there was no baseball on TV (Yankees play tomorrow), so I decided to pour a glass of red and see what was on cable. On AMC I saw that Alien was about to start. I'm not one to watch commercial TV versions of movies I have on DVD, but I decided to give it a look, at least for a few minutes.  Long enough to see the opening titles and dig on the score for a few minutes.

How did they present the movie?..... Alien - The 30th Anniversary, tonight, on AMC.

I have to tell you guys, that stung a little. It was a sobering reminder of the passage of time.  One that I could do without at the start of the weekend.

30 fucking years, man.  Damn.

*edit*

I just checked the release date.  It was the summer before my senior year.

If I may, I'd like to offer an opinion\possible explanation for the concerns from the few posts above.

We're discussing a movie from the 1970s. That was a different time - a more innocent time.  Uber-realism - whether it was story, graphic violence, hate, fear, blood, etc - was not the style of the time, nor the expectation.  At least not where an outer space adventure was concerned.

We were concerned with hoping Luke, the Princess, and the others got away from the Death Star - not the minutia of exactly how the device was placed, when, by whom, or how it worked within the framework of the Empire's plans.

Star Wars captured the world in 1977 because it was - as it is often referred to - a fairy tale.  It wasn't a shaky-cam, F-bomb laden, close-up-of-the-exit-wound affair.

Different decade - different film experience.

Nanner Split said:

I personally find white text on a dark background to be the easiest on the eyes. My eyes get sore when staring at a word document, but at a place like this (with OT Old Skool on), it's never a problem.

 

First of all - hats off to Gaffer for starting this interesting and thought-provoking discussion. Well done, sir.

There isn't much I can add to Gaffer's thoughts, his observations mirror my own. Birth of a Nation is a fascinating time capsule. A recorded look at the turn of the last century. Not necessarily the story within the film, but the fact that a major film was made depicting a common belief at the time, as well as how the film was made. Looking at it through today's intelligence and society, it's a shocker. Some parts are hard to watch because they're so wrong. Again, not so much for the story within the film, but that a film about it was OK. In fact, not just OK, but completely acceptable and lauded. To me, with those thoughts in mind, it's worth its weight in gold where preserving history - actual, perceived, or desired - is concerned.

For anyone who hasn't seen it, it's available for download here;

http://www.archive.org/details/dw_griffith_birth_of_a_nation

xhonzi said:

Man did those prequels suck!  George Luca$$ has totally lost it!

Gaffer Tape said:

...Kirk takes the Prime Directive and sodomizes it until it begs for mercy. 

Fuck, I nearly did a spit-take. ;-)

AxiaEuxine said:

I always felt that Obi-Wan sacrificed himself partially because he knew that Luke would not leave without him.

Sufficient, I guess, but not as much as he could have been. Vader seems to want the fight as a one-on-one.  In fact, I wonder if Ben would have even sacrificed himself had he not seen Luke near the Falcon, and having a chance to escape with the Princess & the data.  It's a little like Ben is developing his plan on whatever circumstances present themselves.  Or - as a certain someone else once said - "I'm making this up as I go." 

;-)

Gaffer Tape said:

You're the most well-known single movie fan around here, so you do tend to be used as a case study. 

Cool... I always wanted to be a case study....I think. ;-)

Gaffer Tape said:

How was Ben's death the necessary choice for the mission to succeed?....How did his death keep the droids from being captured?

I think it served two purposes. He would still be able to help Luke by speaking to him through the force - and - it provided a momentary diversion so that the group could get on board the Falcon, have a chance to escape the Death Star (thanks to Ben's tractor beam help), and deliver the technical readouts.

There were certainly other ways the events at that critical moment in the story could have been handled, but I think it worked well. It also forced Luke to grow up even faster - not that he needed to after seeing his family slaughtered. However, with Ben & his only family gone, he had to reach deep inside and make some very adult decisions. After Ben was killed, he was truly on his own. He was in the thick of things in a way he hadn't even dreamed of when we first meet him.

Gaffer Tape said:

But, Gaffer, Anchorhead will scoff.  Those are the sequels.  They're just ridiculous, they represent a different mindset than the first film, and I try to pretend they don't exist! 

I don't try to pretend they don't exist. I have little or no interest in them these days, but I'm aware of the story continuation. That's why I don't make statements like "Those are not Star Wars films", "those are not canon", etc, etc. They are. They're just Star Wars films that I haven't seen in a long time, following a story line I don't care about. My issues regarding Lucas and his attempt to alter history are a separate matter.

For the record, I think Empire has some fantastic moments. I may get the 06 DVD of it before too long.

Regarding your post, are you asking something specific or just pondering the less-than-consistent portrayal of the Stormtroopers throughout the series? It seems to me that they were a substantial threat in the first film and less so in the second & third. As far as Phantom goes, I don't remember seeing any, which is just my lack of familiarity with the film. I can't speak to their threat level.

As for Vader, I think his level of threat and\or power was correct for the story in Star Wars. He was a military member with little regard for other people, he was highly skilled, and had a questionable past that was enough to keep other military personnel somewhat distant. However, he wasn't the be-all, end-all of all things Empire. He wasn't beyond authority. He answered to other ranking members, who did sometimes challenge him. I thought that was a perfect balance.

He was morphed into an almost superhero state as the series went on, which to me felt out of place from the first film.

Ben gave up because a loss was nearly inevitable. Plus it was the necessary choice for the mission to succeed, or even to continue at that point. Earlier in the film, Ben tells Luke that "the droids would now be in the hands of the Empire". By sacrificing himself, he was trying to prevent that from happening at that point in their mission.

Mielr said:

And even though Liz Taylor is in her 70's now- I find it hard to believe that anyone would be unaware that in her prime she was considered to be one of the most beautiful women who's ever lived.

 

She was indeed.

Mielr said:

I did see your name/avatar on the last page- I just had no idea it was Star Wars-related. For some reason I have no memory of that character from TPM- and that's the only prequel film that I saw more than once. :-/

 

Make that two.  I looked up the name and found a link to a Star Wars wiki page about the character.  I saw Phantom when it came out and also have absolutely no memory of that character.  That wiki page had a few screen grabs and made it sound as though he even had a few lines.

Weird - 10 years later and Phantom is nearly gone from my head.

*edit*

I had 12 years and corrected it to 10.  Apparently the characters & story aren't the only things that have faded from memory.

xhonzi said:

And why are you biased?  Are you secretly Carrie Fisher's dad or something?

I'm biased because when I first saw The Princess in the theater in 1977, I felt the same way Luke did when R2 plays part of her message.  Regardless of what became of her as the years went on, that initial impression was one of awe. 

That said, I'll readily admit she's tough to look at these days because of her years of substance abuse.  However, in the late 70s, she was gorgeous.

xhonzi said:

I always think she bears a striking resemblance to young Carrie Fisher. 

I realize I'm biased, but the resemblance is minimal. 

In my eyes - you'd be hard-pressed to find a woman as breathtakingly beautiful as Carrie Fisher was when she was young.

I've not read anything on whether or not Nicholson knew Polanski was at his house. However, Huston was there. Here is a link to scans of the girl's original grand jury testimony; http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/polanskicover1.html

The girl says Huston told her she had to go to work, but it seems as though she's still there. She knocks on the bedroom door afterward and talks to the girl again after she got her clothes back on (she'd spoken to her when they first arrived).

C3PX said:

I still fail to see how it is possible to defend the man.

That's it in a nutshell for me. We all know what happened that day, then the confession, the fleeing to another country to avoid punishment, etc, etc. In the end, what it boils down to for me is - a guy my age gave drugs & alcohol to an elementary school girl and raped her. Like C3PX, I fail to see where any part of that is somehow being misunderstood or judged unfairly. What he did was vile.

And let's not forget that other adults enabled it - Jack Nicholson was fine with him using his house, and Angelica Huston was there in another room while it was happening. I find it hard to believe that either of them thought his intentions were anything other than what happened.

C3PX said:

So, what are your four rain albums, Anchorhead?

They go beyond favorite.  A rain album is one that was first heard on a rainy day and I emotionally connected with during that initial two or three day period.  That connection is usually formed over the first few days of listening and if it happens to be raining those first days, the album connects with that as well.  When that happens, the distinction of Rain Album is bestowed upon it. It's my way of preserving that initial emotional connection.  I have a couple of films that also have watching criteria.

The rain-only listening is something I'm absolutely staunch with - no exceptions, ever. If they come on the radio, I turn it off for a moment. Actually there are five, I left out one in my earlier post.  So, without further ado, the five albums I listen to only when it's raining - the five albums I've NEVER heard on a sunny day....

The Beatles - Let It Be
Supertramp - Brother Where You Bound
Genesis - Duke
Genesis - Calling All Stations
Genesis - Live Over Europe - During that tour, I saw them at The Hollywood Bowl - it rained for nearly the entire show.  It was perfect. So in this case, it was the event that created the rain album.

Honorable Mention (albums that I think sound best on rainy days, but were not born into it, so I make exceptions)

Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
Genesis - Wind & Wuthering
Yes - Close To The Edge
Yes - Union
Pink Floyd - A Momentary Lapse Of Reason

I listen to more film soundtracks than I can list.  Some that come to mind as great rain albums are;
The Da Vinci Code
Batman Begins
Blade Runner*
Apocalypse Now
Alien
Solaris
Memoirs Of A Geisha
Cast Away
- just to name a few.

*Since it's release - watched ONLY on cold, rainy nights.