Anchorhead

Sighing already?  Man, the game is over an hour away.

TV's Frink said:

*pants Warb*

Um...forget I said that.

Believe me,   I'm trying.

Warb,

I don't know how to put all this so it makes sense to you.  The 1977 film got me here.  It was my be all, end all for decades.  I think it's a fantastic film.  I own it, I know it backwards & forwards, it's the only one of the six I have any interest in. I will be first in line to purchase future versions of it, provided they are 1977 theatrical.

That said;  I now prefer to read the Daley novels or listen to NPR over the 1977 film.  I just don't feel the magic I did for so many years.  All that came after it (from Lucas) has tainted it for me. Plus, I want more than that one story.  Lucas never did that.  Brian Daley did.  Daley even gave me more depth in Star Wars just by writing the NPR version. He gave me hours more of the story I love.

So that I'm clear on this -  when I say prefer, I mean just that - prefer - not in place of forever because the other stuff is shit.  I do not mean Star Wars77  is bad, the story is no good, the OOT isn't worth saving, etc, etc.

Now, if you'll excuse me, the Giants are playing in a few hours.  I have to get home, change into my comfortable clothes, pour a glass of wine and relax (as best I can) to some championship baseball.

*removed* 

I didn't want that one hanging out there too long.  He may not know I was kidding.

Warbler said:

1.  this site's mean objective, and one many members on here agree with is to get the OOT released on DVD and now Blu Ray.  It not just to get the original Star Wars released.

Correct. 

Warb, I don't have to champion the proper release of Empire & Return because when we get Star Wars, we'll get Empire & Return.  No one need worry about that particular detail.

2.  I could find you multiple posts where people claim the ESB is their favorite Star Wars film.  They actually prefer it to the first movie.

What on God's green Earth does that have to do with which film\story\version\novels I prefer?  My opinion isn't incorrect - no one's is.

3.  the story wasn't over at the end of the first movie.    Vader was still alive, the war between Empire and rebellion wasn't over.  Luke had yet to fulfill his promise to become a Jedi.   What is wrong with wrapping all that up?

No, it wasn't over, nor was it a cliffhanger. The next two films answered questions I wasn't asking. As did the one prequel I saw.

4.  When this first started it seemed like Anchorhead had a problem with the whole OOT, not just ESB and ROTJ.  He even said he'd prefer the Han Solo books over it.   Why piss on the first movie? 

Where did I do that?  I said I prefer the NPR version of Star Wars to the film version and the Han Solo Adventures to all of it.  Preferring Daley's work to Lucas' is a personal view, not a slam of all things OOT. It's not even close.  In fact, I specifically said that The Han Solo Adventures captured the spirit and emotion that first drew me to Star Wars, back in 1977.  That speaks highly to both considering I'm still a fan 34 years later.

Dude - I'm on a fucking Star Wars message board.  How does that equate to pissing on Star Wars?

ChainsawAsh said:

But it wasn't part of any trilogy for the first 3 years of its existence.  It was just Star Wars, and that was it.  That's what Anchorhead is a fan of, so to him, it's not a part of any "trilogy" - it's just a very good movie.  (not to put words in your mouth, Anchorhead)

Warb, to you, the three films of the original trilogy are one and inseparable.  That's not the case for Anchorhead.

See, the way he sees Star Wars is the way I see Indiana Jones - I'm really only a fan of Raiders of the Lost Ark.  To my mind, the other movies are vastly inferior.  The way I look at it, Lucas and Spielberg made a fantastic film, then decided to make a spinoff trilogy featuring one of the main characters, and said spinoff trilogy wasn't as good.

I have Temple, Crusade, and Skull on my hard drive - they're not terrible movies, but I don't have the desire to watch them often enough to own the discs.  I own Raiders on DVD, and it's also on my hard drive.  I even made a copy with no menu, a new disc label, and a new cover so I wouldn't have to look at that fucking new title that places it in the same series as the other three films.

And I just realized that this totally turned into a rant about how much I love Raiders and don't like the other three, when I'm trying to defend Anchorhead, so I'll just stop right there.

My name is Anchorhead, and I approve of this post.  ;-)  That's really it in a nutshell. The story in Star Wars didn't need to be completed or explained.  It was (is) a fantastic stand-alone film. 

Also, I see Raiders as the deeper, more serious of the four, but I like them all.  Crusade & temple the least though.  Guess it all depends what mood I'm in.

That's it exactly.

bkev said:

 I believe he even walked out of ROTJ way back when...

I didn't, but I sure thought about it. 

Warbler said:

so you don't think ESB and ROTJ should have been made?

Wouldn't have bothered me one way or the other.  Plenty of other stories to tell.  I liked Empire when it was released.  After a while, I saw it for what it was.  The beginning of the shrinking universe via Lucas' writers block.

a children's bed time story?  is that what you regard ESB and ROTJ?

Empire - only the I am your father bit. 

Return - very much a childrens bedtime story, complete with plush toys and a happily ever after ending.

but you claim to no longer like the first trilogy.    

Have we met before? -  I haven't been a fan of anything other than the 1977 story for about 20 years.

If you can ask me, those things are no more or less a part of the OOT than they of the NPR.

I addressed that in the quote you posted immediately after.

What were once interesting and somewhat mysterious parts of the story became the very over-explained primary focus of the franchise.

sounds like to me, you might prefer the Star Trek universe over that of Star Wars.

I read one book about 15 years ago and liked it.  Lost Years I think it was.  Not sure why I'm not a Trek uber-nerd.  I imagine there might be some very interesting books alright.

but the NPR is basically the same story, just more detailed.   When you say the NPR,  do you just mean the NPR of the first movie or all three?

NPR Star Wars.  Whenever I mention Star Wars - I'm speaking of the first film\story only, unless I specifically state otherwise.

Warbler said:

It seems to me you are contradicting yourself.  First you say George should have quit while he was ahead.   Then you complain that he spent decades miking that same story.    If he had quit while he was ahead, that same story is all you'd have.    I also wondering if you don't understand what I mean when I say OOT.   I mean the original Star Wars trilogy as it was originally seen, not what Lucas did to it years later.    .....I also don't understand why you like the NPR when it contains the things you claim to not like anymore(the force,  the darkside, a Jedi Master(Yoda), The Empire).

I should have been more clear, my apologies.  What I meant by quitting when he was ahead was in reference to the 1977 story and his own writing.  The endless backstory\shrinking that followed for decades afterward all centered around the 1977 story, made worse by the fact that Lucas is a mediocre writer at best.

Personally, I would have been much more interested in other people's stories within that universe, not the thinning and weakening of the 1977 story.  Brackett, Daley, and Foster all had better (to me) stories.  Lucas commissioned Brackett and Foster to write sequels, but then he decided against using them and instead stayed married to that 1977 story. 

Those other books and scripts could have been made into very interesting films.  The franchise could have had a much broader scope.  The dark, mysterious vastness of 1977could have lived on - instead it was shrunk into a children's bed time story.

Regarding The Force, Jedi Knights, The Dark Side, Clones, Sith, et al ;  Those were fine in the context of a story (Star Wars 77 & NPR - which I like very much).  They are also fine as parts of other stories - which is exactly what they are in the first trilogy.  However, they haven't been used that way since.  They've become the entire focus of the films, books, and cartoons.  Enough already!  There are other people and organizations in the universe.  It's ok to tell their stories too, and some authors have done a very good job of it.  Those are the stories that interest me now.

I still dig the NPR version immensely, just listened to it for the third time this year a couple of weeks ago.  However, I need some time away and Daley is providing just that.  Plus, I find his original stories more interesting anyway, just as I find his version of Star Wars more interesting than George's.

Warbler said:

 if you wish to dislike the OOT, that's ok.

I don't dislike it, I dislike what it has become.  It's just not magical for me anymore.  George should have quit  when he was ahead and left the fans wanting more, but he's not like that. He's the opposite.  He's spent decades milking that same story. Not the universe it took place in - but that same fucking story.  It's no wonder the fanbase is so fragmented these days. He has absolutely no concept of the phrase less is more.

By removing Han & Chewie from the confines of Lucasworld, Daley  put the fun and the magic back into that vast universe for me. Just as he did with NPR Star Wars.

Alright, so there's no score in the first.  Damn - where's your sense of humor, man?  First you make a post and then edit it away, then you put up the Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World trailer - which I thought was very clever, by the way - then you just start in with the whatever shit??

Here are my thoughts on the franchise itself;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3U79aw2JUI

Warbler said:

I can understand not liking the SE and the PT and not considering them part of the Star Wars universe.  But the OOT???

It's not a matter of me not considering the OOT part of the Star Wars Universe.  It is, by the way - very much so.  It's which stories, or in this case, what part of the Star Wars Universe that I'm interested in.

I'm not interested in anything Lucas wrote\filmed\revised.  I like Daley's NPR Star Wars better than the movie.  It's a much deeper story.  I like The Han Solo Adventures even more because they aren't weighed down with all of Lucas' personal baggage and bullshit.

I have no more interest in The Force, The Dark Side, Clones, The Jedi Masters, The Empire,  etc, etc.  In 1977, they helped color of the story.  With Lucas at the helm of the remaining films, particularly the last four, those things became the story - so much so that in the last two I saw (Return & Phantom), they took the place of story.  Even newer EU seems to be all about Force\Jedi\Clone.

I'm tired of that over-explained, small sphere of story. It's like a catchy pop song - fine the first few weeks, but after hearing it four times a day for weeks, it becomes noise.  For me, Lucas' Star Wars Universe is noise.

ChainsawAsh said:

 

Nobody calls me chicken.  Nobody.

Funny story about that line.  I'm a huge fan of the first film, but have little knowledge of the other two. I've seen a few scenes from the second but don't remember any of it, and I've not seen the third.

With that in mind;  A guy at work, who I often trade film lines with in conversation, said in response to something we were discussing a few years ago - "nobody calls me chicken...".  He waited for my response and when I said I didn't get it, he said "come on, you know, from Back To The Future - you're the huge BTTF nerd, you have to remember that scene".

I explained to him (yet again) that I only like the first one, and that I know it so well I could probably transcribe the film from memory.  He assured me that the chicken scene was in the first one.  I assured him it wasn't.

Dude, not understanding who he was dealing with, decides to offer me a bet;  If he can find the scene and prove me wrong, I buy him a new Astros cap.  If the line isn't in the movie - he buys me one.  He makes it clear he'll prove me wrong, while I remind him that I'm unfamiliar with the second two films, so he needs to have his money ready. So sure is he of winning that he ups the ante - if he's wrong, he'll even buy me a 59FIFTY (official uniform cap), which is about 30 dollars.

He heads off to find the scene -  I go back to my office to decide which cap I'll get.  After about 20 minutes, he comes down to my office to admit defeat.  At lunch that same day we went over to Minute Maid, which is just a few blocks away.

Long story even longer; I picked the alternate uniform cap (red), seen in this picture from our MLB thread;

I wear that cap regularly throughout the year, even more than the black one.  ;-)

TheBoost said:

Anch, I know you're a SW77 man all the way, but I'm curious if you've ever checked out the "Lando Calrissian Adventures?" I've read one, "Flamewinds of Osseon" and thought it was a hoot and a half, very much in vein with the "Han Solo Adventures."

I've only heard of them, but everything I've heard has been that same sentiment.  I will almost certainly give them a read in the coming months.

Warbler said:

So you like the three Brian Daley Han Solo books better than the OOT?  

Yes.  I just don't have any interest anymore in Lucas Star Wars.  It's tired - very tired - because it never grew, nor was it expanded upon.  To me, Lucas did just the opposite.  He significantly shrunk the universe as a whole and even managed to take away from the original story.  It all became very repetitive, tedious, and small.

Brian Daley's Han Solo Adventures and his NPR Star Wars are much more in line with what drew me to the original film in 1977 - mystery & adventure in the vast unknown of space.

xhonzi said:

It might be that the memory cheats...  People discussed more how they could be better and discussed positive aspects of the OT and even parts of the EU without just taking a dump on the whole franchise.

I don't think memory cheats.  However, I do think that most people will only fight a losing battle for so long.   People dump on the franchise as a whole much more now because it's become an almost comical mess. What we came here for isn't going to happen, at least not for many more years. 

Myself - I jumped ship long ago.  My connection to "The Franchise" is peripheral, at most.  I don't even watch the one film I like anymore.  The radio version - free of Lucas' input - is my go-to now.  Although, truthfully, even that is now being challenged.  I find my personal canon to be Brian Daley's Han Solo Adventures.  Other than two characters from the NPR Star Wars, they're a completely separate entity from "The Franchise". They feel right to me.

I don't fight the good fight anymore because I don't care anymore.  I found something I like much more.  Something deeper, more coherent, more vast, more "far away".  No more Sith, Force, Jedi, Vader, The Dark Side, etc, etc, etc.  I got worn out on it to the point of turning on it.  Because I was never really married to it the way some fans are, it didn't take nearly as much for me to cut it loose.

I'm still here because it's an interesting and intelligent gathering place to discuss what I do still like (Daley's work).  It's also a way to keep up with Kaminski's Saving Star Wars site, which is something I support.  I link to it and reference it on other boards because at the very least, I want people to know the truth about Lucas.

Perhaps your disappointment with this site and the members is really just your coming to the realization that you've reached a turning point - a true, personal disappointment with what Lucas has done, and continues to do, to ruin and contaminate the franchise. Just a thought.

Dave Matthews Band - You and Me.

Doing my part with positive energy for the teams I'm pulling for.

Rangers;  This is next to my TV.  I bought that pin back in the 80s.  The flag has been on and off my riding jackets since the early 80s.

Giants;  I have a hat I wear during the games. When not at Giants games back in SF, where I bought it, it stays next to my regularly-worn Astros caps in my home office.

There are a number of influences & examples listed here;

http://moongadget.com/origins/index.html

I don't remember reading anything about 633 though.

I'm not anti Phillies.  They just happen to be potentially going against two teams I've followed closely for years.  Teams I've watched in person many times, sometimes against each other.  If they were going against some other teams (Boston, Toronto, Detroit, Cleveland) , I'd pull for them.  Particularly with Roy on the hill.

zombie84 said:

I fail to see how someone can say "Star Wars is lost" when some guy has a Technicolor print of Star Wars sitting in his home. But beyond this, the OOT will never literally fade away for good. If Lucas doesn't restore it himself in the next eight or nine years, someone will after he dies. Even if his will says "don't release the OOT," mark my words the second the dust settles from his grave there will be a squad of fans, professionals and corporate executives trying to find a way around it, and eventually they will succeed. It's essentially a waiting game, one way or another.

I very much agree.  I think Lucas way over-estimates his ability to control how people will watch\experience or think of Star Wars 1977,  or the film series as a whole.  Continually lying about his Original Master Vision does not equal control over history & future.  There are too many instances, from very credible sources (articles, interviews, books, etc) where his lies can be proven as such.

What the TFNers choose to believe is their own problem.  They'll have to reconcile his lies with the truth one day. They won't like it, but they'll have no choice.

 Star Wars77 was industry-altering, pop culture-altering, and public consciousness-altering. No one person gets to control that.  The world will get Star Wars released and preserved properly.  It will just take time.

Sluggo said:

Yankees are gonna clobber the Rangers. 

That may not be the given that most people think it is.

For 2010 against each other;

Games won - Yankees 4, Rangers 4
Runs scored - Yankees 39, Rangers 33

It should at least be an entertaining series.

At least the two teams I follow are still going one more series.  Part of my wanting a Rangers\Giants World Series is my dislike of repeat World Series.  If it's not my home team going, I don't want to see the same show over & over again.

If it's Yankees - Giants, I'm Giants, except when Pettitte pitches.

If it's Yankees - Phillies, I'm Yankees all the way. 

If it's Rangers - Phillies, I'm Rangers all the way.

If it's Rangers - Giants, I've got a headache on my hands.  At that point, I'll just hope for seven games.