Gaffer Tape said:I have to kinda agree with Vaderisnothayden here, actually. I didn't find Raiders "bland" per se, but I certainly found that Last Crusade did Raiders with more energy and comedy.
Agreed.
Vaderisnothayden said:AxiaEuxine said:I submit to you that they are nether reductive or stupid. I enjoy them.
You may enjoy them, but that doesn't mean they're not reductive and stupid. There's so much stupid shit in the EU that really brings the SW universe down.
That's true, overall the EU is a worthless pile of bunk, especially since the PT came along and everyone felt compelled to try and incorporate it. (Although, for me, the EU was ruined as soon as Vector Prime came along and started the NJO series. What a pretentious piece of garbage that was!)
Although I still contend that, for all the pomposity and stupidity of the overwhelming majority of SW EU, there are still a few treasures that are, lamentably, all-too-often thrown out with the bathwater, so to speak. The Rogue Squadron books (including "I, Jedi") are superb; that series is really the cream of the crop as far as I'm concerned (excepting Starfighters of Adumar; it was a complete let-down). The Thrawn Trilogy is, of course, quite masterful, though Zahn's other SW work is pretty unremarkable. I also recommend the Jedi Academy Trilogy by Kevin J. Anderson: it's a good series overall, even though there are occasional moments of sheer stupidity. A lot of the old "Tales of the Jedi" comics are superb as well.
I also highly recommend this book. I'm currently reading it, and enjoying every page! Thanks, Zombie, for your assiduous research and unremitting attention to detail. You've provided the fanbase with a very valuable resource. :)
Jedi Dark Knight said:You assume that there can actually BE rogue Jedi, which no where in the cannon has been stated there are any.
You're assuming that absence of evidence is de facto evidence of absence, a fallacy commonly committed by first-year logic students. That a force user could of their own free will choose to secede from the "Jedi Order" that is a political entity, yet retain Jedi ideals and beliefs, is a lot more reasonable and rational that assuming that anyone who can use the force and doesn't sign on with the "Jedi Order" automatically becomes an evil Sith dark-side user. Since your position is the more irrational, the burden of proof rests on you to demonstrate that there couldn't be a rogue Jedi, rather than just clinging to an argument from silence.
Anyone who uses the Force for evil reasons yes should be considered evil *as in sith* (if you disagree that's a different argument), evil as in provoque war, taking hostage Obi1 and using the (yes!) sith lightning...
This is just absurd. I don't recall the Force ever being used to provoke war in these fanedits; that was a political move, and a perfectly justified one if the corruption showcased in Ep. I is any indication. Taking Obi-Wan hostage was A.) provoked, since Obi-Wan was tresspassing on private property, and B.) not really even Dooku's doing in this fanedit. The Geonosians are the ones responsible for the execution, and Dooku appears to be an allied guest.
since Yoda who is just as powerful if not more than Dooku NEVER used it, the only other Force-user to use the lightning is Darth Sidious, a sith.
Again, an argument from silence, and a rather silly one. This is also a "poisoning the well" fallacy. Just because an evil person uses a Force power, doesn't mean that everyone else who uses it must also be evil. I might just as easily argue that Luke is evil since he uses "Sith Choke" in ROTJ, and the only other person who uses that power is Vader, a sith. But of course, that would be silly and irrational, so I only bring it up for the sake of comparison.
Obi-Wan cuts off the arms in self defense, you can argue Dooku was using it in self defense to, but then why not just spar? after all they are using lightsabers not blasters like Zam and with Dr Evazan we don't know what he was going to pull out, the Bartender yelled "no blasters" but that happens so quick that we don't know, but with Dooku We DO know, they where sparring and Dooku went for the cutting move.
So? Obi-Wan does the same during a lightsaber duel in ROTS; do you intend to argue that he, too, is a sith?
One quick burst makes no difference *he just used the Dark side once* c'mon, it's sith lightning, if you don't see it how that is more evil than hurling your enemies then you should understand what sith lightning does, EU you argue? fine, then don't but it does affect more than hurling.
I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're getting at; the jumbled grammar is incredibly confusing and difficult to decode. But I think you're saying that force lighting is sith lighting because it's sith lighting (which is pure tautology; you cannot win an argument simply by repeating yourself ad infinitum, ad nauseum), and that it does affect the person against whom it is directed moreso than telekenisis would (which is demonstrably untrue, since Anakin just a few moments later springs back into action with all all the vigor and enthusiasm he had before.) As for the EU, I don't recall ever bringing it up. Review my posts, if you like.
More so, if you wanna keep Dooku a "rogue Jedi" (which you can in the end whatever..) why would a Rogue Jedi be in league with Darth Sidious, we know the separatists where with him (Grievous talks to him as Master) and he was with the separatists. To take Doooku out of the sith order as it seems you wanna go it's not just changing his color and leaving out the "sith parts" it's also about behavior.....
As JasonN has explained (and as you would know if you'd carefully watched these edits), there is absolutely no collaboration in these films between Sidious and the Seperatist movement, or between Sidious and Dooku. As for Dooku's behavior, I fail to see how it's any more sithish than any of the Jedi in these films. Could you demonstrate any place that he actually does anything evil? As I recall, he attended a business meeting on an allied planet, which is crashed by hostile invaders. Dooku tries to establish a treaty with the invaders, thereby persuading the Geonosians to spare their lives, but they refuse, so Dooku is helpless to do anything more. At the last minute, the invaders' army shows up, so Dooku tries to escape. Two Jedi corner him and engage (remember, Anakin made the first move, so the lightning was in self-defense). Dooku out-duels and neutralizes them, but mercifully allows them to live. In the third film, he takes Palpatine (a.k.a. Darth Sidious) as a political prisoner, and is mercilessly decapitated by the same Jedi that he had earlier spared in an attempt to prevent a rescue operation.
Heck, compared to the overwhelming majority of proper Jedi in these films, Dooku comes out smelling rosy! Going by JasonN's edits, if I was involved in the Clone Wars, I'd sign up with the Separatists: they're the ones seeking to end the corrupt Republic that is under direct control of the Sith Lord that you so eschew.
So just because it's not called sith lightning in the movies specifically you dismiss it? maybe you want Rick Ollie saying "look there's sith-lightning, he must be a Sith! and it looks painful" you want that level of exposition in the movie? oooook! I though you hated it and that's why you edited in AOTF (good call btw). How about Yoda NEVER using it, are we to assume then that the Emperor is more powerful than Yoda? or that Yoda simply doesn't want to use it (because it's painful - look at Luke's/Anakin's face, IT hurts)?
Again, with the seemingly unending arguments from silence! How do you know the Yoda never uses it? Just because it isn't shown? Talk about faulty logic! There are plenty of rational arguments for why we never see Yoda use force lightning. Perhaps because, as he demonstrates in the theatrical cuts, it's too easy to deflect. Perhaps because he personally prefers other techniques. Perhaps because his species is unable to use it. Perhaps he has used lightning, but it's never shown onscreen simply because we don't ever see him fight (save for decapitating the clonetroopers on Kashyyyk). The list could go on and on and on, but you blockheadedly insist that the only reason must be that it's evil. This line of argumentation is laughably absurd.
3. I hate EU too, but the notion that Jedi can leave the Republic and be Dark/Rogue/Independent/Purple/Freelance Jedi or any of that non-sense is EU too. BTW.
The reason being that it makes perfect sense. Why wouldn't they be able to? With how over-the-top preachy, restrictive, and Pharisaical the PT Jedi Order is, why wouldn't droves of Jedi leave and start their own order? Or go vigilante-Jedi? As I've said before, your position is the more irrational, so you need to demonstrate why it wouldn't be possible rather than just unremittingly repeating your assertion.
Wow, I envy you two! The ability to repress the memory of the PT is one for which I have long sought, and which continues to elude me...
It's a bit ironic to see one who ardently defends the PT (which is a poorly-constructed, unenetertaining, cringe-inducing patchwork of revisionist bunk) accuse the new Star Trek movie (which is well-done, enjoyable, and keeps remarkably close to the spirit of TOS) of having "as much in common with Star Trek as a box of of used tampons". The cognitive dissonance makes my brain tickle.
No one said he was a "Dark Jedi," only a rogue Jedi, i.e., a Jedi who has broken off from the official "Jedi Order" for political reasons. You assume that anyone who uses the force outside of the official "Jedi Order" is automatically a sith, which is absurd and baseless. As for cutting off arms, remember that Obi-Wan Kenobi lops off that arms of Zam in AOTC and Dr. Evazan in ANH, not to mention multiple of Anakin's limbs in ROTS. Does that make him somehow ignoble? As for the lightning, you're begging the question by calling it "Sith Lightning." Notice that it was just one quick burst rather than the concentrated dose that Palpy fires into people. It only served the knock Anakin across the room. That being the case, I don't see how it's any more evil than using telekenisis to hurl your enemies around, which "good" Jedi are doing all the time!
Your arguments = fail
Jedi Dark Knight said:Akwat Kbrana said:Also, vis-a-vis Dooku leaving after taking out Obi-Wan and Anakin...I think the idea is that he's a Jedi, not a Sith in these fanedits. Thus, he has no reason to murder them; he only needs to neutralize them so he can make his escape. Their disagreement is primarily political, not religious.
Religion has nothing to do with dispatching the two Jedi, Obi-Wan is a threat on a political level since he knows the TF Viceroy is behind the attempt on Padme's life, Obi-Wan was a hostage, from every point of view if he is starting a war, which is why he is building so many battle droids, if he leaves two Jedi out there they could heal and come after him, tactics in war dictate he should have finished them, religion or no religion, at that point they were beyond politics and right into open war tactics, and tacts indicate dispatch your heavy threats....leaving that just makes him a weak character. But as Jason N said: whatever....
That's just idiotic. To engage the enemy in armed combat is noble and permitted by the Jedi code. To mercilessly cut down an unarmed opponent is not. Dooku, being a Jedi, is idealogically and religiously restrained from committing murder. Whether or not something is politically expedient is, to a Jedi, entirely secondary to whether or not it's morally right.
doubleofive said:I'm going to post a shot by shot comparison, as is my custom, once I'm allowed to.
Glad to hear that, 005. I'm always hugely appreciative of your comparison shots. (In fact, it was your comparison slideshow that convinced me to enter the world of Revisited in the first place.) :)
As far sa the Qui-Gon reaction shot to Anakin meeting Obi-Wan, I'll take an unexplained grin over "YOU'RE a jedi TOO?? Pleased to meet you!" anyday. That line was unforgivably cringe-inducing.
Also, vis-a-vis Dooku leaving after taking out Obi-Wan and Anakin...I think the idea is that he's a Jedi, not a Sith in these fanedits. Thus, he has no reason to murder them; he only needs to neutralize them so he can make his escape. Their disagreement is primarily political, not religious.
Will Lucas correct the colors for the blu-ray release? Well, if history is any indication, I'd say it's more likely that they'll be even more screwed up than the DVD release.
Also, don't be shocked if the Han / Greedo shootout gets altered yet again. This time, Greedo shoots first and misses, Han shoots second and misses, then they shoot virtually simultaneously, with Han hitting and Greedo missing.
Or, better yet, maybe they'll CG in Greedo suddenly having compassion on Han, getting up from the table, and walking away. See? He learned his lesson from the fistfight with lil' Ani in Episode I, and so he no longer needs to resort to Bullying. Isn't it fun to give peace a chance?
ChainsawAsh said:AxiaEuxine said:okay now, I realize there is epic hatred of the prequels on these boards but you cant possibly hold them in the same league as the holiday special. come on now.
I'd watch the holiday special before I'd watch the prequels again. At least the holiday special is funny in its own demented way.
Hear, hear! HS, though embarrassing, was nowhere near the death-blow to Star Wars that the PT was.
RoccondilRinon said:Old joke is old.
Indeed, an old joke is old. Necessarily. Bit of a tautological observation, though, don't you think?
Also, there are two or three frames in which the wampa that we do see, has a really distracting snowflake on his foot. Could this please be digitally erased? Thanks.
I'm pretty sure it was a reference to the ion cannon shot. AFAIK, you're the first person to raise this particular concern. (Or, if it has been raised, it certainly escaped my notice, and I don't think it's been officially addressed...) :)
Yes, that effect has been completely redone. If you dig around in the thread a little, you can probably find the clip. It's a vast improvement, IMO.
EDIT: Ya beat me to it, Angel... :)
Nice, Ady. The new colours are brilliant. Seems the finished film will look fresh enough to have been filmed this year! An impressive achievment, to say the least...
AxiaEuxine said:
Now come on, which cockpit is more useful? Seems more logical.
True enough. But then, on the other hand, the OT design looks to be more mechanically-driven, while the PT design seems more electronic/software-driven. Hence, with the sleeker Vista-powered Jedi Starfighters, you've probably got a pretty good chance of hitting two buttons at the same time, confusing the system, and ending up with this:
Then you're pretty much screwed.
With the X-wing design, even if your system gets horribly mangled and strands you in deep space, you'll probably be ok as long as you've got a toolkit, a roll of duct tape, some spare WD-40, and a little mechanical know-how.
But no one - I repeat, no one - wants to be stranded in a remote region by the blue screen of death. From that horrifying hell of a monstrosity, there is no recovery.
WAAAAaaaaaaaa!!
Aye, Partition Magic is a really handy little program. I highly recommend it. :)
Kewl! I still haven't had time to listen to your ROTJ set, but I thoroughly loved the other four soundtracks (counting the vinyl transfers). Can't wait to hear the definitive remastering (for me, anyway) of ROTJ! :)
Aye, I've seen The Phantom Edit, but I've never experienced it with the commentary. Thanks for the tip; if I can track it down again, I'll give it a look-see (or perhaps more accurately, a "listen.") :)
Yeah, ditto; that pretty much sums up my thoughts precisely. The only times I've watched TPM in the last...oh, probably about four or five years...have all been with fanedits. JasonN's was quite masterful, and actually made it somewhat enjoyable - though still not anywhere remotely approaching "on par with the OT."
I've said before that TPM is both the PT's best and worst installment: the most enjoyable elements of the PT are in this movie, along with the most cringe-inducing. A properly polished fanedit actually makes TPM a much more entertaining and engaging film than either of its trainwreck sequels. Still, li'l orphan Ani and the abundance of gungans will always and forever render this episode a deeply flawed and ultimately unsalvageable film. (If some faneditor can take drastic measures and prove me wrong vis-a-vis the "unsalvageable" comment, I'd be quite appreciative.)
"Darth Vader is taking a shuttle back to his Star Destroyer! And look! A surprise cameo by JerJerrod!"
Wow...that, like so many other questionable "creative decisions" vis-a-vis 2004 colouring, is appalling. It's almost like they intentionally set out to produce an inferior product!
