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ATMachine

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Post
#775344
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

To be precise, Mace Windy was the Jedi Master who mentored the narrator of the unfinished 1973 Journal of the Whills fragment, the apprentice Chuiee Two (CJ) Thorpe.

In his 1983 book Skywalking, Dale Pollock (who got a lot of things in the early SW drafts extremely confused overall) mis-typed the character's name as "Mace Windu," and GL adopted this latter spelling for TPM.

Post
#775142
Topic
<strong>STAR WARS: REBELS</strong> (animated tv series) - a general discussion thread
Time

True. But the concept of the unity of Hell, in the traditional Christian sense, isn't quite so uniformly spread across cultures, I think.

Really, the challenge of writing such a dialogue line is twofold: a) make up some religious phrases that sound believable for the inhabitants of a galaxy far far away; b) don't reduce the audience to conniptions of laughter in the process.

It's a tricky balance, and with ESB Lawrence Kasdan evidently preferred to err on the side of the latter option.

GL, on the other hand, evidently favored pseudo-exoticism in the dialogue of the prequels, often with decidedly tin-eared results ("younglings" comes to mind).

Post
#773342
Topic
Star Wars Episode VII, VIII, IX George Lucas original story outline, scripts, treatments or his ideas
Time

Darth Id said:

ATMachine said:

TheBoost said:

I think all that Disney has from George, is a couple legal pads covered in doodles and lists of names. 

 Also a playlist full of song titles.

 ...like "March of the Archetypes" and "The Force of a Thousand Faces."

Actually, I'd wager they were more in the vein of "Du zeugtest ein edles Geschlecht; kein Zager kann je ihm entschlagen."

Which is a heck of a mouthful. Believe me, it's much more fun to listen to.

Post
#767071
Topic
ROTJ is the best Star Wars film... discuss!
Time

SilverWook said:

generalfrevious said:

I don't want to say this, but the Gungans might be more badass than Ewoks if you ignore Jar Jar Binks and maybe Boss Nass.

I really want to be wrong on this :(

There are some variables to consider.

The Gungans fared poorly against battle droids. Their shield tech was good against a barrage, but the droids could slowly walk right through it? That's one heck of a design flaw.

Clearly the Gungans' shields were designed by the same guys who produced personal shields for the Corrino Empire.

It's lucky for Naboo the battle droids didn't have corresponding Dune-style lasguns.

Post
#767040
Topic
Twin Suns, Twin Sagas: The Star Wars of 1975, take 2
Time

That's what you get for daring to read a writer's raw notes.

In finished form (and undoubtedly in the movie itself, were it ever made) the scenes in question would be implied through allusion rather than shown fully on screen.

Allow me to quote an eminent scholar of Victorian literature:

Many Victorian fiction authors sometimes wrote deliberately incorrect and seemingly absurd passages into their books, especially in moments touching on sexuality. This was done so that only people who were mature enough to understand what was in all likelihood really happening would interpret the text correctly.

This practice was not at all uncommon among Victorian writers, even those working in non-fiction fields. For example, popular English-language medical textbooks of the day switched to Latin to describe ailments of the genitals, or other material that might be considered “prurient.”

Of course, this style of fiction writing expects that the reader be prepared to look for such code phrases. Yet, equally, it asks that its readers exercise their own imaginations.

This philosophy is one which GL seems to have followed himself in writing the various scripts of the original SW film.

Incidentally, the symbolism of the scene in question is an allusion of sorts referring to the Ancient Greek notion of the four bodily humors: black bile, yellow bile, blood, and phlegm.

Post
#767008
Topic
Twin Suns, Twin Sagas: The Star Wars of 1975, take 2
Time

(Extended Edition)

Episode X: The Phantom Menace

 

Nel mezzo del cammin di nostra vita

mi ritrovai per una selva oscura

che' la diritta via era smarrita.

--Dante Aligheri, Inferno, canto I, lines 1-3

 

Four years had passed since the end of the Second Clone War, and the decisive defeat of the Republic’s foes. Nonetheless, the promised peace had not materialized, for a campaign of terrorist bombings was even now being waged by Clone guerrillas.

The current Chancellor of the Senate, Sate Pestage, the Lord of Alderaan, fulminated against these “evildoers” in bellicose speeches, and vowed to bring them to justice, either dead or alive.

Chancellor Pestage had been in office since before the Second Clone War. He rose to the Chancellorship on a wave of dissatisfaction with his predecessor’s public image as a coward, more interested in having peace at any price than in defending the interests of the Republic from hostile outlying systems.

The outbreak of war had allowed Pestage to gain an unprecedented second term in power. Now, faced with this new threat, the Chancellor’s supporters in the Senate had engineered his election for a third time, so that this strong leader could deal with the Republic’s enemies as they deserved.

It was little known, however, that most of the “terrorist” bombings were actually the work of the Chancellor’s own agents, running false-flag operations in order to provide excuses for cementing the Emperor’s authority.

Already the Emperor had passed new laws criminalizing dissent and placing sharp restrictions on the rights of petition and assembly. Some in the Jedi Order, including Annikin Starkiller, Ben Kenobi, and others high in the Council, looked on alarmingly, and wondered if they should intervene.

But one Jedi, Darth Vader, had made a secret pact with the Chancellor Pestage: he and his friends among the Jedi Order (and he did have them) would establish and support his rule as a monarch. They would serve as the power behind the throne Lord Pestage craved, in exchange for Vader being made the head of the New Order.

In turn, Vader, who remained in contact with the shadowy Bogan Lord of Dagobah, promised his other Master that when the time came, they would become the true rulers of a great galactic Empire.

Because of Vader’s treachery, when the Jedi began in secret to plan for an insurrection, their plans were known to the Chancellor already, and their efforts were undone from the beginning.

A small party of Jedi went to the Republic Chancellery in an attempt to arrest Chancellor Pestage. But Darth Vader, his face concealed by an armored Sith mask, defended his new master, and slew them.

The Chancellor came to the Senate the next day, and related what had happened. He declared that those Jedi who had backed the treasonous plot against his life would be hunted down and defeated. But those who had served him loyally would be rewarded.

The word “Jedi,” whose original meaning had been lost to history, would be abandoned, and stigmatized henceforth as the name of a band of traitorous criminals. From now on it would be replaced by an Old Galactic word for “disciple.” Thus Darth Vader would become the new head of the renamed Sith Order.

The Senate exploded in rapturous cheers of applause. A shout went up to the effect that the benevolent Chancellor Pestage should become Chancellor for life. A vote was taken, and it was done.

The surviving Jedi loyal to the Republic fled, regrouping on Organa Major under the protection of King Carl. Among these were Ben Kenobi and Annikin Starkiller.

But Darth Vader bore down on Organa Major, leading an army of Sith Knights, and backed by a large force of Republic troops. The regular army had swelled in size enormously during the two Clone Wars, and it had been politically impossible to turn out so many veterans at once.

Now they would find a new use for their talents: massacring the Jedi who opposed the New Order.

Carl Organa knew that if the Old Jedi remained on Organa Major, they would be surrounded and quickly defeated. Therefore he proposed that they should give battle on a terrain of their own choosing, one far less friendly to a hostile invading force: the rocky lava world of Condawn. Even then the Jedi had small hope of victory, but they had little alternative.

Thus, with heavy hearts, the Jedi Knights set off for their last battle.

The night before the Battle of Condawn, King Carl of Organa Major slept with his wife, Queen Alexa, in what would be his last night as a whole man.

The next day’s battle could more aptly have been termed a slaughter. Against the Sith Knights, who wore black masks to inspire fear in their enemies, the Jedi would have been faced with an even match. But the presence of massed armies of Republic troops, fighting against their former allies, turned the scales.

King Carl lost his legs, and his twin sons Crispin and Corwin were slain. At last only two Jedi remained standing: Annikin Starkiller and Ben Kenobi. Together they faced off against Darth Vader.

Vader offered Ben Kenobi safe-conduct, if he would join the Sith. But Annikin Starkiller must die, he said, for he had his own grievance with him.

Ben refused to stand by and let his friend be killed. But Vader knocked him down with a painful lightsaber slash, and he struggled to catch his breath.

Vader and Annikin dueled, and Vader cut off Annikin’s left arm.

With Annikin lying helpless at his feet, unable to wield a sword, Darth Vader spoke the words that had so long burned within his heart:

“Look upon your handiwork, Father!”

Then Darth Vader decapitated his father, Annikin Starkiller.

Fueled by rage, Ben Kenobi rushed at Vader and stabbed him in the heart.

But Vader marshaled all his Force power to sustain his vital functions, and thus managed to save his own life. Yet he was still wounded grievously, and afterward he turned to machines to sustain his ravaged body, since to use the Force consciously for this task all the time was nigh impossible.

Still, with the desperate strength of a man afraid to die, Vader fought on. And he severed Ben Kenobi’s mechanical right hand, defeating the last Jedi standing on the battlefield.

Vader took Ben Kenobi’s sword as a trophy, as well as his Kiber Crystal, a Jedi’s token of power. But he left behind Annikin Starkiller’s sword where it had fallen. Perhaps, Vader said mockingly, Ben would want to keep it as a souvenir. It held no danger to Vader, surely; after all, what good had it done its original wielder?

Laughing painfully in triumph, Vader left Ben Kenobi to his grief, where he sat weeping beside the bodies of his dead friend and his fallen lord.

In the wake of the Battle of Condawn, Chancellor Pestage assumed the title of Emperor, to thunderous applause in the Senate, and more muted expressions of public approval.

Ben Kenobi went to Utapau, settling there as a hermit and watching from afar over young Luke Starkiller, who was being raised by Beru Highsinger and her husband, Owen Lars.

Breha Thorpe and her daughter Nellith went into hiding with a noble house loyal to the Old Republic, on the far reaches of the galaxy, where the Emperor’s troops would have little power to enforce their will. Another surviving Jedi Knight, Bunden Debannen, went to watch over them.

A few years later, Breha died—apparently of natural causes, though many said it was grief which killed her. Not long afterward, Ben Kenobi stopped receiving reports from Bunden Debannen. This alarmed him, but he did not dare leave Utapau for as long as it would take to investigate matters on the other side of the galaxy.

Nine months after the Jedi were defeated at Condawn, Alexa Organa gave birth to a dark-haired, grey-eyed baby girl: Leia Organa.

Carl Organa now went around in a silver wheelchair, refusing to replace his lost legs, according to the Jedi traditions of old. His hair had turned snow-white, and he always wore mourning black, in memory of his dead sons.

The Sith Knights made their official headquarters in the former Temple of the Jedi Order on Ton-Muund. However, Darth Vader built a castle of steel and glass upon the lava world of Condawn, to mark his victory over the Old Jedi, and this served as an additional center of operations for the Sith.

Here on Condawn the hooded Bogan Lord, taciturn and sinister, came to dwell in secret, revealing his presence only to the innermost Lords of the Sith. It was his counsels which ruled Vader and the Sith Order, and which in turn shaped the destiny of the Empire, though Lord Pestage on his golden throne knew it not.

Darth Vader believed that he had achieved his vengeance at last, and could rest easily at night.

He had forgotten that, more often than not, vengeance begets further vengeance.

Post
#767007
Topic
Twin Suns, Twin Sagas: The Star Wars of 1975, take 2
Time

(Theatrical Edition)

Episode VI: The Phantom Menace

 

“That is not dead which can eternal lie,

And with strange aeons even death may die.”

--HP Lovecraft, “The Call of Cthulhu”

 

Four years had passed since the end of the Second Clone War, and the decisive defeat of the Republic’s foes. Nonetheless, the promised peace had not materialized, for a campaign of terrorist bombings was even now being waged by Clone guerrillas.

The current Chancellor of the Senate, Sate Pestage, the Lord of Alderaan, fulminated against these “evildoers” in bellicose speeches, and vowed to bring them to justice, either dead or alive.

Chancellor Pestage had been in office since before the Second Clone War. He rose to the Chancellorship on a wave of dissatisfaction with his predecessor’s public image as a coward, more interested in having peace at any price than in defending the interests of the Republic from hostile outlying systems.

The outbreak of war had allowed Pestage to gain an unprecedented second term in power. Now, faced with this new threat, the Chancellor’s supporters in the Senate engineered his election for a third time, so that this strong leader could deal with the Republic’s enemies as they deserved.

It was little known, however, that most of the “terrorist” bombings were actually the work of the Chancellor’s own agents, running false-flag operations in order to provide excuses for cementing the Emperor’s authority.

Already the Emperor had passed new laws criminalizing dissent and placing sharp restrictions on the rights of petition and assembly. Some in the Jedi Order, including Ben Kenobi and others high in the Council, looked on alarmingly, and wondered if they should intervene.

But one Jedi, Darth Vader, had made a secret pact with the Chancellor Pestage: he and his friends among the Jedi Order (and he did have them) would establish and support his rule as a monarch. They would serve as the power behind the throne Lord Pestage craved, in exchange for Vader being made the head of the New Order.

Thus, when the Jedi began in secret to plan for an insurrection, their plans were known to the Chancellor already, and their efforts were undone from the beginning.

A small party of Jedi went to the Republic Chancellery in an attempt to arrest Chancellor Pestage. But Darth Vader, his face concealed by an armored Sith mask, defended his new master, and slew them.

The Chancellor came to the Senate the next day, and related what had happened. He declared that those Jedi who had backed the treasonous plot against his life would be hunted down and defeated. But those who had served him loyally would be rewarded.

The word “Jedi,” whose original meaning had been lost to history, would be abandoned, and stigmatized henceforth as the name of a band of traitorous criminals. From now on it would be replaced by an Old Galactic word for “disciple.” Thus Darth Vader would become the new head of the renamed Sith Order.

The Senate exploded in rapturous cheers of applause. A shout went up to the effect that the benevolent Consul Pestage of Alderaan should become Chancellor for life. A vote was taken, and it was done.

The surviving Jedi loyal to the Republic fled, regrouping on Organa Major under the protection of King Carl. Among these was Ben Kenobi.

Annikin Starkiller, watching from his home on Utapau, was appalled by what was happening to his beloved Jedi Order. He left his farm on the desert planet, and his young son Luke, and went to Organa Major to offer his services to the fugitive Jedi.

Before he left, Annikin gave one of his two magic Rings, the fruit of his defeats of the Clone Kings, to his wife Breha, with instructions to pass it on to Luke should he ever need it. But once Annikin had departed, Breha kept the Ring for herself.

The other Ring Annikin took with him, as armor and protection against the mighty forces of the increasingly sinister Republic.

But Darth Vader bore down on Organa Major, leading an army of Sith Knights, and backed by a large force of Republic troops. The regular army had swelled in size enormously during the two Clone Wars, and it had been politically impossible to turn out so many veterans at once.

Now they would find a new use for their talents: massacring the Jedi who opposed the New Order.

Carl Organa knew that if the Old Jedi remained on Organa Major, they would be surrounded and quickly defeated. Therefore he proposed that they should give battle on a terrain of their own choosing, one far less friendly to a hostile invading force: the rocky lava world of Condawn. Even then the Jedi had small hope of victory, but they had little alternative.

Thus, with heavy hearts, the valiant Jedi Knights of the Old Republic set off for their last battle.

The night before the Battle of Condawn, Annikin Starkiller at last gave into long-standing temptation, and slept with Queen Alexa of Organa Major.

The next day’s battle could more aptly have been termed a slaughter. Against the Sith Knights, who wore black masks to inspire fear in their enemies, the Jedi would have been faced with an even match. But the presence of massed armies of Republic troops, fighting against their former allies, turned the scales.

King Carl lost his legs, and his twin sons Crispin and Corwin were slain. At last only two Jedi remained standing: Annikin Starkiller and Ben Kenobi. Together they faced off against Darth Vader.

Vader offered Ben Kenobi safe-conduct, if he would agree to join the Sith. But Annikin Starkiller must die, he said, for Vader had his own grievance with him.

Ben refused to stand by and let his friend be killed. But Vader knocked him down with a painful lightsaber slash, and he struggled to catch his breath.

Vader and Annikin dueled, and Vader cut off Annikin’s left arm.

With Annikin lying helpless at his feet, unable to wield a sword, Darth Vader spoke the words that had so long burned within his heart:

“Look upon your handiwork, Father!”

Then Darth Vader decapitated his father, Annikin Starkiller.

Fueled by rage, Ben Kenobi sprang up and rushed at Vader, and stabbed him in the heart.

But Vader took up the magic Ring from Annikin Starkiller’s severed left hand, and by wearing it managed to save his own life. Yet he was still wounded grievously, and afterward he turned to machines to sustain his ravaged body, trusting not to the power of a magic trinket which had availed his father nothing.

Still, Vader could fight. And he severed Ben Kenobi’s right hand, defeating the last Jedi standing on the battlefield.

Vader took Ben Kenobi’s sword as a trophy, as well as his Kiber Crystal, a Jedi’s token of power. But he left behind Annikin Starkiller’s sword where it had fallen. Perhaps, Vader said mockingly, Ben would want to keep it as a souvenir. It held no danger to Vader, surely; after all, what good had it done its original wielder?

Laughing painfully in triumph, Vader left Ben Kenobi to his grief, where he sat weeping beside his dead friend and his fallen lord.

In the wake of the Battle of Condawn, Chancellor Pestage assumed the title of Emperor, to thunderous applause in the Senate, and more muted expressions of public approval.

Ben Kenobi went to Utapau, settling there as a hermit and watching over young Luke Starkiller from afar. A few years later, Breha Thorpe died—apparently of natural causes, though many said it was a defective heart which killed her. Afterward Luke was raised by Breha’s sister, Beru Thorpe, and her husband Owen Lars.

Breha had Annikin’s magic Ring buried within her own coffin, to spite the husband who had never loved her. Ben Kenobi grieved, but said nothing.

Nine months after the Jedi were defeated at Condawn, Alexa Organa gave birth to a fair-haired, blue-eyed baby girl: Leia Organa.

Carl Organa now went around in a silver wheelchair, refusing to replace his lost legs, according to the Jedi traditions of old. His hair had turned snow-white, and he always wore mourning black, in memory of his dead sons.

The Sith Knights made their official headquarters in the former Temple of the Jedi Order on Ton-Muund. However, Darth Vader built a castle of steel and glass upon the lava world of Condawn, to mark his victory over the Old Jedi, and this served as an additional center of operations for the Sith.

Darth Vader believed that he had achieved his vengeance at last, and could rest easily at night.

He had forgotten that, more often than not, vengeance begets further vengeance.