Sign In

Unpopular Opinion Thread — Page 10

Author
Time

The High Republic will be bigger and better than most imagine.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Rodney-2187 said:

The High Republic will be bigger and better than most imagine.

I really hope this is the case. Light of the Jedi was a great starting point. The amount of people I’ve seen in media throwing crap at the HR project depresses me.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

SparkySywer said:

Star Wars opinions are not generational. I don’t know why this is such a common idea when people of all opinions are at pretty much every age.

I think this idea comes from the fact that prequel fans tend to be younger. But people have been saying this for two decades now, and the 12 year old prequel fans of 2001 didn’t grow up into 32 year old prequel fans of 2021, they grew up into 32 year old OT fans. The same thing is happening to the 12 year old prequel fans of 2011 and will happen to the 12 year old prequel fans of 2021.

I think it might be closer to say the prequels have gone through generational acceptance, they’ll never be the OT but it’s become more part of the package with age rather than when they were fresh and awkward, after sticking out like a sore thumb, bit by bit more has been integrated. There must be something to the generational argument, at least I imagine it has to make a difference between growing up and having the PT introduced after the fact vs knowing Star Wars as 6 movies before you’ve ever seen one.

Prequel love I see around now I think at worst is reactionary and cover for negative ST sentiment, and at best is maybe only the first real wave of acceptance for the PT, either way I think it’s too early to call even for the PT.

“The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.” - DV

Author
Time
 (Edited)

If he had been given more creative control, Lawrence Kasdan would have ruined RotJ. Kasdan is a better dialogue writer than Lucas, but ultimately, Lucas was always bound to understand his own story better, and he was right to stick to his guns on giving RotJ a happy ending rather than the darker one Kasdan wanted. (Kasdan always seemed to have a more grimdark, bleaker vision for Star Wars than Lucas did, and I think a lot of the choices made in TFA reflect that.)

Rogue One was probably better before the reshoots. The reshot ending was most likely conceived based on “rule of cool” and doesn’t really line up with ANH. I suspect the original ending was more consistent and thought out, only being changed at the last minute to make it “punchier.”

The sequel trilogy won’t age well. Partly because it lacks a distinct identity and tries too hard to be just a modernized version of the OT. Also, if the poor toy/merch sales for ST characters and content are any indication, it hasn’t captured the attention of a new generation to the same degree that the first two trilogies did (OT, PT, and Mando-themed toys are all selling great, by comparison). The ST started with a very strong first impression because of the novelty of seeing a more old-fashioned Star Wars movie again, but it will lack long-term staying power.

Also, I want to make an amendment to my earlier take about how Han should have died during the freezing process. Having thought about it, I realize now that would’ve been a mistake as well, since Luke and Leia would never have forgiven Lando if he had caused Han’s death. Taking part in rescuing Han was what redeemed Lando in the eyes of the other characters. So, basically, there wasn’t really any good window of opportunity to kill Han, and I’m glad he survived.

Author
Time

Servii said:

Rogue One was probably better before the reshoots. The reshot ending was most likely conceived based on “rule of cool” and doesn’t really line up with ANH. I suspect the original ending was more consistent and thought out, only being changed at the last minute to make it “punchier.”

I’ll never understand why people think the ending is such a great segue into ANH. Like Leia is going to pretend that she’s on a mercy mission after fleeing from this intense battle? And then Vader, who seems intesnely focused during the climax of RO, just casually walks onto Tantive IV like he’s on a routine inspection.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

daveinthecave said:

Servii said:

Rogue One was probably better before the reshoots. The reshot ending was most likely conceived based on “rule of cool” and doesn’t really line up with ANH. I suspect the original ending was more consistent and thought out, only being changed at the last minute to make it “punchier.”

I’ll never understand why people think the ending is such a great segue into ANH. Like Leia is going to pretend that she’s on a mercy mission after fleeing from this intense battle? And then Vader, who seems intesnely focused during the climax of RO, just casually walks onto Tantive IV like he’s on a routine inspection.

Vader’s casual, unworried entrance is really well done. I just realized this now after watching these films hundreds of times.

The Opening Crawl of Star Wars always implied to me that that the Rebels had ambushed an Imperial Fleet and captured some of the vessels. While going through the databanks of one of the ships they found the Death Star plans.

Now Leia’s lie that she is on a “diplomatic mission” would be nonsensical if she and the Tantive were at the actual battle itself. The plans must have been transferred to her later on - perhaps on Coruscant, were she is a sitting member of The Senate. She then makes some excuse to go on a “mercy mission” to some planet in need of “foreign aid” (Tatooine). Imperial Security gets wind of this and The Emperor entrusts his most capable “agent” with the task of securing the data tapes.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

Author
Time
 (Edited)

My unpopular opinion on the ST: TLJ will be redeemed by the passage of time and stand out as the only worthwhile entry of the ST.

Author
Time

fmalover said:

My unpopular opinion on the ST: TLJ will be redeemed by the passage of time and stand out as the only worthwhile entry of the ST.

I’ve heard quite a few fans express a similar opinion. It will certainly be the most remembered and discussed (and argued about) of the three in the future. TRoS, on the other hand, will age like milk as just another forgettable holiday blockbuster. Still, there’s the issue that TLJ is the middle film of a trilogy and picks up right where TFA leaves off with its characters, so it can’t really stand on its own.

Author
Time

I suggest a little experiment.

Try watching TLJ after watching the OT, and you’ll find it works pretty well as a coda to the saga.

I’ve posted previously that if it were up to me, I would have started the ST with TLJ or at the very least a movie that bears a strong resemblance to it.

Author
Time

Kasdan did not provide for the story in Star Wars the same way he did for Raiders of the Lost Ark.

He saved that movie. Other than making the dialog punchier and tightening up the script anyone could have polished up Empire or Jedi. Kasdan never was the author. Nor was Gloria or Willard co-authors on Star Wars the way they absolutely were on American Graffiti.

Lucas is bad on dialog and bad on drama so he hires people who fix those aspects.

Lucas is 100% the author of the OT good or bad, the same way he was for the prequels. Its his story and its in no way collaborative. The stories are his and very personal. They are in his imagination and his head. No matter how much he wished he could hand it off to someone else it was impossible.

It was a mistake to give Disney an outline and to believe they wouldn’t screw it up. He has to write these things and oversee them himself to get the desired result.

Author
Time

Those are the takes I’m here for. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said, Jaded. Though I’d argue Lucas is still good enough on drama 😉

Author
Time

fmalover said:

My unpopular opinion on the ST: TLJ will be redeemed by the passage of time and stand out as the only worthwhile entry of the ST.

Kind of agree. I have a soft spot for TFA and I can forgive it for not doing a whole lot, because of the context of the time it was made in. Its purpose was to bring back trust in Lucasfilm after the Disney buyout and the prequels, and it honestly did its job.

That said, taking the movies for what they are: TLJ is the only Star Wars movie outside the OT that’s in the “Sequels that actually justify their own existence” club. That’s not surprising, though, it’s a very exclusive club.

JadedSkywalker said:

Its his story and its in no way collaborative. The stories are his and very personal.

Star Wars is my go to example I use when I want to talk about how movies are a collaborative art form, because of how much the Original Trilogy is not just George Lucas’s work.

The other people who worked on the OT didn’t just help Lucas realize his vision, they created part of the vision themselves. It’s not just that Star Wars would have failed without them, Star Wars just wouldn’t have been Star Wars without Ralph McQuarrie, or Marcia Lucas, or Gary Kurtz, I could keep going.

Hell, if you look at what happened behind the scenes of the Empire Strikes Back, it’s clearly not just George Lucas’s movie. While Lucas was working on Raiders of the Lost Ark, Irvin Kershner shot the movie in such a way that Kershner’s vision would be the most prevailing in the final cut. Often there was only one or two (usable) takes, and when there were more, there was not that much variation in them. Lucas was essentially unable to make his own movie out of ESB.

This is also why Richard Marquand was hired for RotJ. Marquand was a weaker, much less experienced director, but he wouldn’t have the balls to do what Kershner did. He also micromanaged a lot more with RotJ, as opposed to Empire, where he rarely even showed up on set.

The only way you can look at Empire and say it wasn’t a collaborative project, is if you’re being cheeky and making some comment on how adversarial Kershner and Lucas’s relationship got toward the end.

This is ultimately why I like new Star Wars much better than the prequels. The prequels are what happens when you take everyone but Lucas out of Star Wars. John Williams is the only person (besides Lucas) I can think of off the top of my head who was there for both the OT and PT, but even his input was severely neutered, especially in 2 and 3, although that’s a long story all on its own.

For better or worse, Star Wars is being made by the fans now. The fans may have wildly different ideas of what Star Wars is, they might even have downright dumb ideas of what Star Wars is, but they have a more holistic view of what Star Wars is.

Death of the Author

Author
Time
 (Edited)

SparkySywer said:

JadedSkywalker said:

Its his story and its in no way collaborative. The stories are his and very personal.

Star Wars is my go to example I use when I want to talk about how movies are a collaborative art form, because of how much the Original Trilogy is not just George Lucas’s work.

The other people who worked on the OT didn’t just help Lucas realize his vision, they created part of the vision themselves. It’s not just that Star Wars would have failed without them, Star Wars just wouldn’t have been Star Wars without Ralph McQuarrie, or Marcia Lucas, or Gary Kurtz, I could keep going.

Hell, if you look at what happened behind the scenes of the Empire Strikes Back, it’s clearly not just George Lucas’s movie. While Lucas was working on Raiders of the Lost Ark, Irvin Kershner shot the movie in such a way that Kershner’s vision would be the most prevailing in the final cut. Often there was only one or two (usable) takes, and when there were more, there was not that much variation in them. Lucas was essentially unable to make his own movie out of ESB.

This is also why Richard Marquand was hired for RotJ. Marquand was a weaker, much less experienced director, but he wouldn’t have the balls to do what Kershner did. He also micromanaged a lot more with RotJ, as opposed to Empire, where he rarely even showed up on set.

The only way you can look at Empire and say it wasn’t a collaborative project, is if you’re being cheeky and making some comment on how adversarial Kershner and Lucas’s relationship got toward the end.

This is ultimately why I like new Star Wars much better than the prequels. The prequels are what happens when you take everyone but Lucas out of Star Wars. John Williams is the only person (besides Lucas) I can think of off the top of my head who was there for both the OT and PT, but even his input was severely neutered, especially in 2 and 3, although that’s a long story all on its own.

For better or worse, Star Wars is being made by the fans now. The fans may have wildly different ideas of what Star Wars is, they might even have downright dumb ideas of what Star Wars is, but they have a more holistic view of what Star Wars is.

You should probably read what you actually quoted before you reply. JadedSkywalker did not say that the whole OT is mostly Lucas’ work. He/she said that story of OT is.

No one can argue OT as whole was not a collaborative effort, because it was a highly collaborative effort (even tough Lucas might have had the final word on things). But I would agree with JadedSkywalker that story (in a detailed scene-by-scene sense, not just outlines) is mostly Lucas’ contribution.

真実

Author
Time

SparkySywer said:

fmalover said:

My unpopular opinion on the ST: TLJ will be redeemed by the passage of time and stand out as the only worthwhile entry of the ST.

Kind of agree. I have a soft spot for TFA and I can forgive it for not doing a whole lot, because of the context of the time it was made in. Its purpose was to bring back trust in Lucasfilm after the Disney buyout and the prequels, and it honestly did its job.

TFA had the opposite effect on me. Repackaging the first SW movie and relying on nostalgia left me deeply disappointed, and I don’t know why TFA is still regarded so highly. For all their flaws I still find enjoyment in the prequels, but TFA is just plain garbage, and I don’t buy into the whole “they had to play it safe to earn the fans trust”. Bullshit!

Author
Time

fmalover said:

SparkySywer said:

fmalover said:

My unpopular opinion on the ST: TLJ will be redeemed by the passage of time and stand out as the only worthwhile entry of the ST.

Kind of agree. I have a soft spot for TFA and I can forgive it for not doing a whole lot, because of the context of the time it was made in. Its purpose was to bring back trust in Lucasfilm after the Disney buyout and the prequels, and it honestly did its job.

TFA had the opposite effect on me. Repackaging the first SW movie and relying on nostalgia left me deeply disappointed, and I don’t know why TFA is still regarded so highly. For all their flaws I still find enjoyment in the prequels, but TFA is just plain garbage, and I don’t buy into the whole “they had to play it safe to earn the fans trust”. Bullshit!

Fully agree here as well, with your takes on TFA & TLJ, fmalover. I like how TLJ is an analysis on the mythos of the saga - and that makes it independent from TFA - because TFA contributes absolutely nothing to those mythos. TLJ’s characters might depend on TFA, but not its themes, which is where the movie truly excels. You don’t need to know Finn’s backstory in order for what his story in TLJ says to have value.

It functions perfectly as a coda to the saga. Why does all that’s been said and done in all of SW matter? What does it mean, at the end of the day when you wake up being just a real person, to be a hero? To do the right thing? TFA and TROS have nothing to say and I have no respect to them for it. I guess TFA won back some fans, something that baffles me, and I honestly believe the opinion on that will sour over time. TLJ on the other hand has a whole lot to say and is the perfect epilogue, a coda. A treat.

Author
Time

JadedSkywalker said:

Kasdan did not provide for the story in Star Wars the same way he did for Raiders of the Lost Ark.

He saved that movie. Other than making the dialog punchier and tightening up the script anyone could have polished up Empire or Jedi. Kasdan never was the author. Nor was Gloria or Willard co-authors on Star Wars the way they absolutely were on American Graffiti.

Lucas is bad on dialog and bad on drama so he hires people who fix those aspects.

Lucas is 100% the author of the OT good or bad, the same way he was for the prequels. Its his story and its in no way collaborative. The stories are his and very personal. They are in his imagination and his head. No matter how much he wished he could hand it off to someone else it was impossible.

It was a mistake to give Disney an outline and to believe they wouldn’t screw it up. He has to write these things and oversee them himself to get the desired result.

This 100%. Obviously film is a collaborative artform but Lucas is the author of Star Wars in the same way that Shakespeare was the author of his plays, which are still preformed by other people hundreds of years after his death.

SparkySywer said:

This is also why Richard Marquand was hired for RotJ. Marquand was a weaker, much less experienced director, but he wouldn’t have the balls to do what Kershner did. He also micromanaged a lot more with RotJ, as opposed to Empire, where he rarely even showed up on set.

This seems doubtful. If Lucas just wanted someone he could control he wouldn’t have asked Spielberg to direct it. I suspect that after the DGA kicked Lucas out and he was left with few options, he decided to effectively direct the film himself and found a young, fairly competent director that he could rely to get the needed shots while Lucas himself oversaw the aspects he considered important.

Omni said:

fmalover said:

TFA had the opposite effect on me. Repackaging the first SW movie and relying on nostalgia left me deeply disappointed, and I don’t know why TFA is still regarded so highly. For all their flaws I still find enjoyment in the prequels, but TFA is just plain garbage, and I don’t buy into the whole “they had to play it safe to earn the fans trust”. Bullshit!

Fully agree here as well, with your takes on TFA & TLJ, fmalover. I like how TLJ is an analysis on the mythos of the saga - and that makes it independent from TFA - because TFA contributes absolutely nothing to those mythos. TLJ’s characters might depend on TFA, but not its themes, which is where the movie truly excels. You don’t need to know Finn’s backstory in order for what his story in TLJ says to have value.

It functions perfectly as a coda to the saga. Why does all that’s been said and done in all of SW matter? What does it mean, at the end of the day when you wake up being just a real person, to be a hero? To do the right thing? TFA and TROS have nothing to say and I have no respect to them for it. I guess TFA won back some fans, something that baffles me, and I honestly believe the opinion on that will sour over time. TLJ on the other hand has a whole lot to say and is the perfect epilogue, a coda. A treat.

Though I don’t really agree with your take on TLJ, I can see this point of view gaining traction in the coming years. Certainly TLJ will age better then JJ’s movies, which are more forgettable then anything else.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

TFA was honestly almost painful for me to sit through. Partly because I dislike JJ Abrams’ frenetic directing style, and partly because the film felt so transparent. It was a carefully crafted recreation of Star Wars, like a theme park ride, but it never felt like a true sequel to RotJ. So many of the creative choices in TFA only make sense from a meta perspective, not an in-universe perspective. And the film couldn’t justify its own existence, nor could it justify its undoing of RotJ’s happy ending.

TLJ was definitely a more intriguing film to watch and analyze. I don’t like the film, but it felt more genuine and less corporate than TFA. TFA had Bob Iger’s fingerprints all over it. TLJ felt like Rian was really trying something more meaningful. I don’t think he succeeded, but the effort was apparent. I do think that fan edits can help TLJ a great deal to work as a coda of sorts, if much of the filler and bloat were removed and it was cut down to just Ahch-To, the Supremacy, and Crait. All in all, it’s definitely the most worth watching of the trilogy.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

fmalover said:

I suggest a little experiment.

Try watching TLJ after watching the OT, and you’ll find it works pretty well as a coda to the saga.

I’ve posted previously that if it were up to me, I would have started the ST with TLJ or at the very least a movie that bears a strong resemblance to it.

Well, that’s what George would’ve done and I agree with it. In his story Kira (one of several names) who became Rey finds a secluded Luke and helps him find his spark of hope in his Episode VII. So we nearly had it to some degree. The context would’ve obviously been much different but the core idea is similar to what we got.

The Last Jedi is certainly the best of the trilogy. I’ve definitely come around to accepting its flaws and find myself enjoying it more and more. I don’t know if it works on every level as a connection to the previous six but it at least tells the most compelling and interesting narratively speaking of the Disney trilogy. It tries some new things to a degree despite its clear references and beat for beat copy and paste at times. I appreciate it more than the other two for that reason alone. Even if it does at the same time I feel break the story and go heavy on the meta commentary.

It’s one of those things as in context to the Disney films it’s great but as a continuing of the story (of even The Force Awakens) I don’t think it works. However it’s really good and even great for what it is and certainly better than the other two in the trilogy.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

Author
Time

Servii said:

TFA was honestly almost painful for me to sit through. Partly because I dislike JJ Abrams’ frenetic directing style, and partly because the film felt so transparent. It was a carefully crafted recreation of Star Wars, like a theme park ride, but it never felt like a true sequel to RotJ. So many of the creative choices in TFA only make sense from a meta perspective, not an in-universe perspective. And the film couldn’t justify its own existence, nor could it justify its undoing of RotJ’s happy ending.

TLJ was definitely a more intriguing film to watch and analyze. I don’t like the film, but it felt more genuine and less corporate than TFA. TFA had Bob Iger’s fingerprints all over it. TLJ felt like Rian was really trying something more meaningful. I don’t think he succeeded, but the effort was apparent. I do think that fan edits can help TLJ a great deal to work as a coda of sorts, if much of the filler and bloat were removed and it was cut down to just Ahch-To, the Supremacy, and Crait. All in all, it’s definitely the most worth watching of the trilogy.

I’d say that if the sequels have anything at all to say, it’s in terms of the meta commentary around Star Wars. TLJ just does this the most competently and TROS entirely fails.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite THE SHATTERED SWORD (Complete!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

Author
Time
 (Edited)

TLJ Luke would have been fine if it was an alternate timeline/interpretation of the character, rather than being labelled as the definitive, hard canon Luke. The Scorsese film The Last Temptation of Christ was very controversial among Christians for its depiction of a flawed, confused, very human Jesus. But the film goes out of its way to make clear to the audience that its an alternate interpretation of Jesus as a way of exploring deeper concepts through the character. The film doesn’t claim to offer the definitive, most Biblically accurate version of Jesus that everyone must accept as canon. It’s just one director’s hypothetical take on the character in a standalone film. The divisive reaction to that movie reminds me a lot of the divisive reaction to Luke in TLJ. But the difference is that TLJ is a sequel, and it leaves no alternative versions available. It’s been set in stone as the official canon fate of Luke Skywalker. That’s a big part of why so many people have rejected that version of Luke.

In theory, many of the Special Edition changes are fine. The problem is just that they are poorly implemented and that the mid 90’s CGI has aged so badly. If there was any time that Lucas should have made and released the Special Editions, it should have been after the prequels were made instead of before, with the original version of the OT ideally being shown in theaters a year or so before TPM as a sort of recap.

Each trilogy is best treated as its own complete story rather than lumping them all together as a Saga that often contradicts itself with very different creative visions. (Even young George Lucas and old George Lucas aren’t really in accord with one another on a lot of things.)

Lucasfilm should loosen its approach to canon, so that the franchise can be treated as more of a loose mythology rather than a definite sequence of hard canon events. In fact, it might be a good idea to bring back the idea of “levels of canon” like we had with the old EU.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Servii said:

TLJ Luke would have been fine if it was an alternate timeline/interpretation of the character, rather than being labelled as the definitive, hard canon Luke. The Scorsese film The Last Temptation of Christ was very controversial among Christians for its depiction of a flawed, confused, very human Jesus. But the film goes out of its way to make clear to the audience that its an alternate interpretation of Jesus as a way of exploring deeper concepts through the character. The film doesn’t claim to offer the definitive, most Biblically accurate version of Jesus that everyone must accept as canon. It’s just one director’s hypothetical take on the character in a standalone film. The divisive reaction to that movie reminds me a lot of the divisive reaction to Luke in TLJ. But the difference is that TLJ is a sequel, and it leaves no alternative versions available. It’s been set in stone as the official canon fate of Luke Skywalker. That’s a big part of why so many people have rejected that version of Luke.

In theory, many of the Special Edition changes are fine. The problem is just that they are poorly implemented and that the mid 90’s CGI has aged so badly. If there was any time that Lucas should have made and released the Special Editions, it should have been after the prequels were made instead of before, with the original version of the OT ideally being shown in theaters a year or so before TPM as a sort of recap.

Each trilogy is best treated as its own complete story rather than lumping them all together as a Saga that often contradicts itself with very different creative visions. (Even young George Lucas and old George Lucas aren’t really in accord with one another on a lot of things.)

Lucasfilm should loosen its approach to canon, so that the franchise can be treated as more of a loose mythology rather than a definite sequence of hard canon events. In fact, it might be a good idea to bring back the idea of “levels of canon” like we had with the old EU.

I like you Servii and I hope you stick around this place. Did you know that Arthur C. Clarke specifically said that each of his 2001 sequels existed separately from each other in their own universes?

Some of us, including myself, feel that SW77 is really a separate entity from EVERYTHING that followed.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I like you too. I definitely plan to keep checking back and posting regularly. It’s good to talk this stuff out with people in a place that doesn’t feel like an echo chamber.

That’s really interesting to know about the 2001 books. I had never heard before about him saying that. That’s a great way to explore alternative stories branching from a single point of origin, and I would love to see Star Wars do something similar to that. I like to view the unaltered OT as existing in its own bubble of canon, while the Special Editions and the Prequels and Sequels are all off in a different timeline, essentially.

SW77 is partly my favorite because of how well it stands on its own. The franchise could have ended after one movie and it would still be considered one of the great science fantasy classics.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Servii said:

I like you too. I definitely plan to keep checking back and posting regularly. It’s good to talk this stuff out with people in a place that doesn’t feel like an echo chamber.

That’s really interesting to know about the 2001 books. I had never heard before about him saying that. That’s a great way to explore alternative stories branching from a single point of origin, and I would love to see Star Wars do something similar to that. I like to view the unaltered OT as existing in its own bubble of canon, while the Special Editions and the Prequels and Sequels are all off in a different timeline, essentially.

SW77 is partly my favorite because of how well it stands on its own. The franchise could have ended after one movie and it would still be considered one of the great science fantasy classics.

A huge issue I have with the ST is that they got the original staring actors back. It makes it tough to see them like that, you know? The PT did not have them so it is easier to dismiss. But time heals all wounds I supposed. I totally dismiss the PT as canonical, and have done so for a long time. I already dismiss the ST the same way in my mind, but not yet in my heart. Not yet. Follow me?

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

Author
Time
 (Edited)

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

I like you too. I definitely plan to keep checking back and posting regularly. It’s good to talk this stuff out with people in a place that doesn’t feel like an echo chamber.

That’s really interesting to know about the 2001 books. I had never heard before about him saying that. That’s a great way to explore alternative stories branching from a single point of origin, and I would love to see Star Wars do something similar to that. I like to view the unaltered OT as existing in its own bubble of canon, while the Special Editions and the Prequels and Sequels are all off in a different timeline, essentially.

SW77 is partly my favorite because of how well it stands on its own. The franchise could have ended after one movie and it would still be considered one of the great science fantasy classics.

The issue I have with the ST is that they got the original staring actors back. It makes it tough to see them like that, you know? The PT did not have them so it is easier to dismiss.

Yeah, I know what you mean. They really wanted to give the ST this outward sense of legitimacy by bringing everybody back. It felt like the old gang was coming back together. Lucasfilm had one chance to reunite them and give them a worthy sendoff. They couldn’t afford to just “wing it” with the plot or settle for a mediocre story. If you’re going to continue the stories of those beloved characters post-RotJ, it had better be respectful to those characters, and it had better be worth people’s time. And I don’t think it was.

I’ve made my peace with the prequels by tucking them into their own continuity with the SEs. I try not to think about the ST when watching the OT. It may have the same actors returning, but it no longer feels like proper Star Wars to me. Lucasfilm will try to double down and further cement the ST in canon through expanded material, but I don’t really care if they do anymore.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Servii said:

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

I like you too. I definitely plan to keep checking back and posting regularly. It’s good to talk this stuff out with people in a place that doesn’t feel like an echo chamber.

That’s really interesting to know about the 2001 books. I had never heard before about him saying that. That’s a great way to explore alternative stories branching from a single point of origin, and I would love to see Star Wars do something similar to that. I like to view the unaltered OT as existing in its own bubble of canon, while the Special Editions and the Prequels and Sequels are all off in a different timeline, essentially.

SW77 is partly my favorite because of how well it stands on its own. The franchise could have ended after one movie and it would still be considered one of the great science fantasy classics.

The issue I have with the ST is that they got the original staring actors back. It makes it tough to see them like that, you know? The PT did not have them so it is easier to dismiss.

Yeah, I know what you mean. They really wanted to give the ST this outward sense of legitimacy by bringing everybody back. It felt like the old gang was coming back together. Lucasfilm had one chance to reunite them and give them a worthy sendoff. They couldn’t afford to just “wing it” with the plot or settle for a mediocre story. If you’re going to continue the stories of those beloved characters post-RotJ, it had better be respectful to those characters, and it had better be worth people’s time. And I don’t think it was.

Michael Arndt struggled with the TFA script because it kept morphing into being about Luke! Disney did not want that - there was almost certainly a mandate to introduce new characters (especially a female protagonist) that younger people could “identify” with.

This is a classic case of a corporation underestimating it’s audience. You really think that a trailer featuring Luke, Han, Leia (even old) kicking ass and taking names would make younger people not want to see a NEW Star Wars? Luke Skywalker is cool because he has a lightsaber and it doesn’t matter that he is getting senior citizens discounts. Toy sales reflect this; the kids don’t want Rey and Finn toys.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord