just wondering. which do you prefer? do you think the cgi yoda was better or the puppet yoda? i liked the puppet more, however the cgi was good for yoda's lightsaber duels.
Puppet Yoda is less realistic in many superficial ways (in some ways it's more realistic, however), but it is far more emotionally gripping than what Lucasart's artists gave us in the prequels (both Episode I Yoda and CG Yoda). The character's physical model had so much more feeling and reality poured into his OT creation (for whatever reason).
Otherwise, I don't like the Yoda duels for two reasons: First, he's an "old man" and thus shouldn't be able to fight like that. Second, Yoda was so skilled with the good side of the force that he should have actually been able to reflect his opponent's attacks back against them and thus never need to use the force to perform any attack of his own.
"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself. It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005
Definitely the ESB/ROTJ puppet. Even though I admit that some Yoda scenes I actually did like in the prequels would not have worked with a puppet.
Edit: Added which puppet I prefer. ;)
ESB/ROTJ puppet Yoda. No contest.
I remember having an argument with someone at HTF about this- I said that I felt that anything that has a human arm in it is automatically going to move more realistically and organically than something animated.
Puppet Yoda from the OT.
When watching Yoda in the PT, I always knew I was watching CG. I was pulled out of the movie.
When watching Yoda in the OT, my mind starts to think him a real creature that could exist in some galaxy somewhere. Somehow... it was more realistic.
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OT Puppet Yoda. They could have made CG Yoda look better but they didn't...And what someone said about the human hand, they could have used mocap. I think what they should have in the prequels is a combo of puppetry and cg to create a versatile, lifelike yoda.
Puppet yoda. And I thought the lightsaber duel(s) with Yoda was a huge missed opportunity. I was expecting him to be a master of efficiency and grace - a little move here, a slight step there, and his opponent would be rendered off balance. Instead he looked looked somebody plugged him into the light socket.
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How much i wish That the prequels and special editions never existed so questions like this one would not have to be asked, and would be irrelevant.
This like the question on versions of the movies would not have to be debated if the saga ended in 1983 like it should have.
Just Like Indiana Jones should have been left alone after last crusade.
All Lucas did was go back and destroy 2 of the favorite franchises of my youth, and added Bad and fake cgi where it was neither wanted or needed.
1999 Phantom Menace was hard to stomach Racist Characters like Jar Jar and the Gungans, and the Nemodians. Poop and Fart Jokes and writing that could have been put together by a juvenile moron.
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Tiptup said:Puppet Yoda is less realistic in many superficial ways (in some ways it's more realistic, however), but it is far more emotionally gripping than what Lucasart's artists gave us in the prequels (both Episode I Yoda and CG Yoda). The character's physical model had so much more feeling and reality poured into his OT creation (for whatever reason).
Otherwise, I don't like the Yoda duels for two reasons: First, he's an "old man" and thus shouldn't be able to fight like that. Second, Yoda was so skilled with the good side of the force that he should have actually been able to reflect his opponent's attacks back against them and thus never need to use the force to perform any attack of his own.
yea, it seems weird that after he finished his duel with dooku that he needed his cane back.
rcb said:yea, it seems weird that after he finished his duel with dooku that he needed his cane back.
Yep, and George's key reason for why the OT depiction of Jedi combat is supposedly compatible goes right out the window. :)
"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself. It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005
Give me a muppet performance over an overengineered CGI model any day of the week.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The main failing point of the CG Yoda was the fact that it somehow lacked Stuart Freeborn's eyes. And I find that especially strange since their tests visible in the AOTC documentaries show a CG Yoda that actually does have the appropriate look to his eyes. So why they intentionally altered the most significant and recognizable of all facial features is beyond me. It's all in the eyes.
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ESB/ROTJ is totally realistic, and it is pretty scary how they were able to achieve that in those movies. AOTC/ROTS CGI Yoda is typical of CGI, IT LOOKS FAKE!!!! Just compare the trilogies, and the OT looks real, and the PT looks real.....fake:)
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skyjedi2005 said:How much i wish That the prequels and special editions never existed so questions like this one would not have to be asked, and would be irrelevant.
This like the question on versions of the movies would not have to be debated if the saga ended in 1983 like it should have.
Just Like Indiana Jones should have been left alone after last crusade.
All Lucas did was go back and destroy 2 of the favorite franchises of my youth, and added Bad and fake cgi where it was neither wanted or needed.
1999 Phantom Menace was hard to stomach Racist Characters like Jar Jar and the Gungans, and the Nemodians. Poop and Fart Jokes and writing that could have been put together by a juvenile moron.
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My personal opinion? (Drumroll please)
...neither. That's right. Puppet Yoda lacked "life-ism" and CG Yoda lacked "material-ism" The puppet yoda was actually there, something you could see walk into a room physically. But still was as jittery as any muppet is. CG Yoda was gread on emotions and movement but lacked the materialistic/tangeable feel to him. You could never imagine him walking into a room, he's CLEARLY CG. We needed a mupppet with some CG work. To enhance the emotions and movement while retaining the tangeable feel to him.
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I wonder if it ever occured to them to try and motion capture a puppeteers performance, to pick up the nuances of movement.
Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:Puppet yoda. And I thought the lightsaber duel(s) with Yoda was a huge missed opportunity. I was expecting him to be a master of efficiency and grace - a little move here, a slight step there, and his opponent would be rendered off balance. Instead he looked looked somebody plugged him into the light socket.
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The Prequel Yodas (I think the Phantom Menace one was actually a puppet) were of far poorer design than the old trilogy's Yoda. Not only did they look less real, but the facial features had a far poorer design. The look on the old Yoda's face was wise an intelligent and benevolent. The Phantom Menace Yoda just looked silly and the later Yoda had this annoying look on his face and they even tried to have him put on macho tough guy expressions, which looked ridiculous. Yoda's lightsaber duels were seriously painful. Here's this little thing zipping around the air buzzing -it was like he was a big fly. It erased what dignity the character had in the prequels (which was far less than he had in the old films, anyway). A poster above said he shouldn't have had to even resort to lightsaber work and I agree. Yoda should have been above such things. He should have used alternatives based on greater mastery of the force. This is one of many examples of bad judgement in the prequels.
Also, it's clear looking at the later Yodas that not enough effort was put in to make the prequel version look like the old version, to make him look like like he was the same guy. Particularly the Phantom Menace version. Why? Surely it couldn't have been so hard to make him look similar. There was some excuse made to the effect that he would have looked different because he was younger, but the Phantom Menace Yoda in particular had totally different features and could never have been the same guy, at any age. The ROTS/AOTC version didn't match up either, and, most importantly, looked like he had a totally different (and far less impressive) personality than the original.
They also wrote Yoda less well in the prequels. He's an annoying pain in the ass there.
Re the lack of realistic appearance of the later Yoda's (the Phantom Menace version looked like a puppet while the later version looked like a cartoon) compared to the splendid old puppet, isn't it amazing how 20 years later they put out something so inferior to what was managed back in the early 80s?
Also, similar to the Yoda situation is the Jabba situation. ROTJ's Jabba is spectacular, lifelike and full of personality. Later Jabbas don't look real, don't have the personality and don't look like any effort was put in to make them look like the same guy as ROTJ's Jabba. And the awful cutsey 1997 Jabba was horrific.
i wouldn't say he was annoying. i felt that they kept the personality well, there was just something about a cgi yoda that couldn't replace the original puppet yoda.
Look close at his facial expression in ROTS. He has this mean self-important look on his face. That's not Yoda as we knew him from the old films.
it was hard to make those expressions with a puppet though. just for kicks, i think it would look weird though, someone should just redo the whole daghobah scene with a cgi yoda.
I think a mixed approach (like Jurassic Park) would have been best, with a GOOD puppet for conversations and interacting with actors, and CGI for long shots and action. I'd bet the logisitics of needing Frank Oz (his availability and maybe his willingness and age) around that much more is the main reason yoda's 100% cg.
the one thing they did do right is keep frank oz as the voice. no one could replace yodas voice. as for the mix like in jurassic park, for star wars fans it may look weird.
rcb said:it was hard to make those expressions with a puppet though. just for kicks, i think it would look weird though, someone should just redo the whole daghobah scene with a cgi yoda.
Nightmarish idea. The expressions on the puppet worked fine.
yea, but he always had a content look on his face. there were parts that he actually looked amazed or sad, but that was it. still, i prefer the puppet yoda over the cgi yoda anyways.
skyjedi2005 said:How much i wish That the prequels and special editions never existed so questions like this one would not have to be asked, and would be irrelevant.
This like the question on versions of the movies would not have to be debated if the saga ended in 1983 like it should have.
Just Like Indiana Jones should have been left alone after last crusade.
All Lucas did was go back and destroy 2 of the favorite franchises of my youth, and added Bad and fake cgi where it was neither wanted or needed.
1999 Phantom Menace was hard to stomach Racist Characters like Jar Jar and the Gungans, and the Nemodians. Poop and Fart Jokes and writing that could have been put together by a juvenile moron.
You'd make a wonderful politician. You give big, long winded, self serving speeches that don't address the original question.
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