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Is anyone looking forward to Lord of the Rings Deleted scenes next year?


As the title says…

Here is a compiled list of what might make it on to the summer release next year…

Scenes we know where filmed:

—Additional Prologue material:
-Sauron stabs his hand and the blood mixes with gold to form the One Ring [FOTR Calendar]
-The torching of Gil-Galad at the hand of Sauron (movie book and filmmaker confirmed).

-Elf maidens run through Lorien (from 1st trailer [this is 2nd Age Lorien, not 3rd Age])
-Many more and varied shots of the Last Alliance battle (from Vanity Fair and many early photos).
Shots of Legolass and Gimli when explaining the dwarves and elf races.

—Additional Hobbiton material:

-“Say what you like about Mad Baggins. No one keeps a better table.” – Random hobbit discusses Bilbo while setting up for the party (from a official site featurette) .

More Dancing at the party and Merry and Pipin play some instruments

-“The Shadow has arisen.” Extended Gandalf/Frodo discussion in Bag End. (from FotR Tv Spot, see .

—Additional Isengard material:
-“Tell me, Gandalf the Grey, you – to whom so many look for guidance…how is it you can be so blind? The world is changed, Gandalf. A new Age is at hand…the Age of Men, which we must rule. Are we not the Istari? Within this frail human form does not the spirit of a Maiar live?” Extended Gandalf/Saruman discussion (from official calendar [which was highly accurate as to the extended version of FotR]) .

—Additional Departing the Shire material:
-It is made known that the hills of Emyn Beriad are mentioned as the place where Gil-galad built the White Tower for Elendil. (from official calendar) .

—Additional Prancing Pony material:
-Strider: “your courage alone will not save you.” “Sauron gave them the promise of eternal rule…unending life. They took the Rings without question…and one by one, regardless of their strength to good or evil…they fell. They are the Ringwraiths, the Nazgul, the Nine Servants of Sauron.” Extended Strider/Hobbits discussion. (from official calendar) . The dialogue is not accurate but when the ring wants to be found in the prancing pony pub we do not intercut between the ring wraiths and frodo instead Aragorn narrates over the images after he says “I know what hunts you”… “They wereonce men, great kings of men. Then Saurin the deciever gave to them nine rings of power. Blinded by their greed they took them without question, one by one falling into darkness. Now they are slaves to his will”. interestingly the shot of the ring flying up out of frodo’s hand on a black screen can be seen in the 2 towers Galdriel monologue with the completed background…

—Additonal Weathertop material:

There is a loot plundared from a cave near the ledge.

-Aragorn and Arwen first meeting when young. This would be a flashback whilst Aragoen sings and is asked “Who is she?”

“Give us the ring halfling” and “The ring is ours” extra ringwraith dialogue as they approach Frodo

—Additional Ford of Bruinen material:
-Elrond and Sauron stage a metaphysical battle for control of Frodo’s spirit (Peter Jackson, DVD Commentary).
The Green Puss is missing from Frodo’s face amongst flipped shots of the Black Riders.

—Additional Rivendell material:

-Elrond throws a welcome party with singing and feasting, much as in the book [Jackson DVD commentary]
-Elrond recites the entire Ring poem. (from extended DVD documentary).

All that is gold does not glitter; all that is long does not last;
All that is old does not wither; not all that is over is past.
Not all that have fallen are vanquished; a king may yet be without crown,
A blade that was broken be brandished; and towers that were strong may fall down

-Elrond: “To what Frodo will come in the end, I cannot tell.” Gandalf: “Not to evil, I think. He may become like a glass filled with a clear light…for eyes to see that can.” These two discuss Frodo as he lies asleep. (from official calendar) .

-“There’s magic here, right down deep where you can’t put your hands on it. They live in both world’s at once. The seen and unseen. So alive, but so sad.” Sam/Frodo discuss elves as they explore a gazebo in Rivendell. (Official photos, books.) This scene is present in the EE edition with no dialogue and shortened.

-Gandalf: “Through all those long years you knew this day would come. The ring of power… it has been found.” Elrond: “Did I know the Ring would be found? No…it is what I feared. Time wearies all of us – even those who do not measure it.” Extended Gandalf/Elrond discussion in Rivendell.(From official calendar and FotR TV Spot, see

—Additional Council of Elrond material:

-“Let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy…He will not think that, having the Ring, we may seek to destroy it.” Gandalf/Boromir discussion at the Council (from official calendar).
= Boromir “No, it is a gift…”
-“It must be destroyed!” Gandalf’s vigorous plea at the council (from virtually every TV spot).
-“Sauron mixed his own blood with molten gold to create the One Ring. It contains his life force!” Gandalf speaks at the council (from extended DVD documentary) .
-“Nine companions to match the Nine Ringwraiths…” Elrond at the council (from extended DVD documentary and calendar).

—Additional Departing Rivendell material:
-“The light of the Evenstar does not wax and wane…it is constant, even in the greatest darkness.” Arwen/Aragorn discussion (from calendar). Appears in the two towers in an altered form.
-“Nai Tiruvantel ar varyuvantel I Valar tielyanna nu vilya.” (Translation: May the Valar protect you on your path under the sky.) This is indeed the hour of the Shire-folk.“ Elrond’s extended blessing (official calendar).
-Elrond has a conversation with Frodo about if he is comfortable with the fellowship (Script)
-It is made known that Elrond possesses the Ring of Vilya (official calendar) .
-It is made known that Arwen is the last-born of her people (official calendar) .
-Legolas and Arwen touch each other’s faces fondly as they depart (extended DVD documentary).

—Additional Journey South material:

-Gandalf stumbles down a steep hill. Legolas catches him. “Blast! Why did the Valar send me here in this old man’s body! No matter. It is not the strength of the body that matters, but the strength of the spirit.” Gandalf philosophizes, (from official books, calendar, and photos. )
-Evidently, it is revealed that Gandalf, Saruman, and Sauron are all Maiar spirits. (official calendar) .

—Additional Caradhras material:

-“Moria - Khazad-dum! Greatest of the Dwarf Halls – what I would not give to look on its treasures!” Gimli tries to persuade the group (official calendar) .
-“One must tread the path that need chooses.” Gandalf attempts to justify Frodo’s choice to try the Mines of Moria (official calendar).

—Additional Moria material:
-“Now you will see, Master Elf, one of the marvels of the Northern World” A slightly varied version of Gimli’s final edit line. (official calendar) .
-Extended stair sequence. Frodo’s perspective is shown as the Fellowship races down the stairs of Moria. Frodo almost falls off the edge. The ring almost falls as well, but Frodo catches it just in time. Frodo is almost hit by an arrow, but Aragorn blocks it with a dwarf shield he picked up. (all from Randall Cook interview on extended DVD).

As Aragorn stabs the Cave troll after it stabs Frodo there is a large spray of Black Blood {EE DVD Documentary footage censored scene)

First Great Hall Trimmed - The 2 shots below seem to be missing splices from Boromir lines “This is no Mine… It is a tomb”

—Pursuit into Lothlorien:

-A band of Moria orcs pursue the Fellowship into Lorien. Running through the woods dodging arrows, Legolas spins around to return fire. Suddenly arrows start appearing ahead of the Fellowship, mowing down the orcs behind them. Haldir and his naith appear. Haldir addresses the Fellowship while other elves retrieve their arrows from the dead orcs: “Orcs have dared enter Lothlorien; they will not leave it alive!” [from trailers, tv spots, photos, books, and calendar] Legolass costume changes.

-Extra Dialogue between Haldir and the fellowship whilst trekking and they look out towards Dol-goldur and discuss the growing evil before they reach the treetop city (Script). Notice how it changes between day and night too quickly in this part.

-Frodo sees Gandalf in Galadrials mirror “Do not touch the water” extra scenes of the scorge of the shire (Script and EE DVD documentary) I imagine Frodo was too see the Maia spirit gandalf after the defeat of the Balrog in the Mirror. The script states Gandalf was to look at frodo intently and was wandering on a road.

—Additional Isengard material:
-Saruman: “The Grey Wizard is dead. His rag-tag Fellowship is leaderless. There is none left to defend it.” [FOTR Calendar] Talking to Sauron? or the Witch King there is a shot of the Palantir held within a Black Riders Hand Armour.

—Additional Great River material:

-Sarn Gebir rapids partially shot scene…Because the set was destroyed although there could be more shots of the boats and there is also concept art of an attack at night by orcs. Possibly preceeding Gollum on the log.

-Aragorn: “The Argonath. It once marked the northern border of Gondor.” [SEE DVD documentary]
-Aragron: “Amon Hen – the Hill of Sight. They say that all that moves for hundreds of miles around is revealed to one who sits upon the Seeing Seat. Such was the power of the ancients.” [FOTR Calendar]
-When looking out from the seeing seat, Frodo sees a great expanse of the world and all of Sauron’s forces moving (burning Lorien, Corsairs, Moria, Dale, etc. ) [SEE DVD Commentary] Probably best to save this for later…

-Sarumans Crows spotting the group on the river? This one is a guess but on the aerial swoop shot and the group looking about you can hear the crows but none are seen. Missing effects shot?

Extended scene where Boromir trys to take the ring (DVD commentry)

-Extra fighting scenes at Amon Hen

  • Frodo and Sam being attacked by Uruk-hai whilst in the boat (alternative scene)

The Two Towers:

  • Extra scenes of Merry & Pippin with the Uruk-hai & Orcs (the cut that appears in the film is a combination of two separate camp scenes)

-An unknown scene displayed in The Two Towers preview of Éomer lowering a spear while riding his horse in a forest. This is possibly the discovery of Theodred being found near death at the river.

-Extra Burning of the westfold scenes

When Aragorn Legolas and Gimli find the dead Uruks Gimli has a gag about them having healthy appetites upon seeing the remains of the orc they ate.

  • Legolas and Treebeard talking about the Elves passing

  • Grima poisoning Theodred… A blue bottle was included with the action figure of Wormtongue

—Additional Gollum material:
-Sam calls him “slier than a fox and slippery as a fish.” [TTT Visual Companion]
-Extended monologue: “No, no Master! Don’t take the precious to him! He’ll eat us all if he gets it, eat all the world. [TTT Visual Companion]
-In the marshes he says, “Tricksy lights! Candles of corpses! Wicked lights! You must not look at them when the candles are lit…” [TTT Visual Companion]

Gollum is beaten more harshly in an extended version of the scene by Faramirs guards.

—Additional Uruk-hai material:
-”We are the fighting Uruk-hai… the servants of Saruman the Wise, the White Hand…” [TTT Visual Companion]

—Additional Three Hunters material:
-Aragorn: “Where sight fails the earth may bring us rumor. The land must groan under their hated feet.” [TTT Visual Companion]

—Additional Eomer material:
-Eomer: “We welcomed guests kindly in the better days, but in these times the unbidden stranger finds us swift and hard.” [TTT Visual Companion]
-Eomer “I serve only the Lord of the Mark, Theoden King, Son of Thengel.” [TTT Visual Companion]
-Gandalf: “Put your trust in Eomer, rather than a man of crooked mind.” [TTT Visual Companion]
-Eomer: “He has taken orcs into his service, and wolf-riders, and evil men, and he has closed the gap against us, so that we are likely to be beset both east and west.” [TTT Visual Companion]

—Additional Ent material:
-Treebeard: “Ere iron was found or tree was hewn, when young was mountain under moon; ere ring was made or wrought was woe, it walked the forests long ago. [TTT Visual Companion]
-Gandalf: “The oldest living thing that still walks beneath the Sun upon this Middle Earth.” [TTT Visual Companion]

—Additional Edoras material:
-Gandalf: “Golden, too, are the posts of its doors.” [TTT Visual Companion]
-Grima: “Ever have you been the herald of woe.” [TTT Visual Companion]
-Gandalf: “Ever his whispering was in your ears… poisoning your thoughts." [TTT Visual Companion]
-Theoden: “Banishment is too good for you."[TTT Visual Companion]

—Additional Orthanc material:
-When Grima returns to Saruman there is a line by Saruman: “Theoden made two mistakes. First he trusted you, then he let you live.”[TTT Photo Guide]
-Saruman: “With it, I shall be more powerful than the Lord of the Rings himself.” [UNABLE TO FIND SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE THAT THIS LONG-RUMORED SCENE WAS SCRIPTED/FILMED.]
-In the underground caverns a returning Uruk is fed to the Wargs for failing to bring back the ring before they are ordered to be sent out to attack the refugees travelling to helms deep.

-Warg Attack after one of the Rohan soldiers are Bitten / Eaten Legolass runs in and slices an Orcs throat whom was riding the Warg note cut to Black… Censored scene.

—Additional Faramir material:
-Madril says “Since the loss of Boromir he does the duty of two sons… -for himself …and the one who will not return.“ [TTT Visual Companion]
-Faramir catches a glimpse of Frodo as a ruined Gollum-like creature in the caves of Henneth Annun [SEE Documentary]

  • Once they Leave for Osgiliath as they get closer Frodo struggles with the power of the ring in a field whilst Faramir is perhaps not so understanding and with Gollum in tow with Sam.

—Arwen’s Choice:

  • “You gave away your life’s grace. I cannot protect you anymore.” Elrond to Arwen The balcony scene was meant to mirror the Bridge upon which Arwen and Aragorn met.

-Arwen travels to Lothlorien speaks to Galadriel and then travels to fight beside Aragorn at Helm’s Deep [SEE DVD commentary]

—The Council of Elves:

-Galadriel: “The Rings of the Elf Lords were not made as weapons of war or conquest. They cannot come to the aid of Men.”[TTT Photoguide]
-Celeborn: “We have seen too many defeats, too many fruitless victories, to trust again to the strength of men.”[TTT Visual Companion]
-Elrond: “If we do not trust to the strength of men then we trust to the victory of Sauron.” [DVD Preview] It seems Galadriels monologue and Elrond at the Window is constructed from this removing Elronds presence.

—Preparing for Battle:
-Aragorn: “I am of the world of Men and these are my people: I will die as one of them.” [TTT Visual Companion]
-Theoden: “Arise now riders of theoden! Dire deeds awake, dark is it eastward. Let horse be bridled, horn be sounded! Forth Eorlingas!” [TTT Visual Companion]
-Theoden gives his people a rousing pep speech in the armory at Helm’s Deep. [SEE Commentary]
-During the Battle of Helm’s Deep Legolas is worried: the defenders are frightened, and he fears three hundred of them cannot hold out against an army of ten thousand Urak-hai. He feels betrayed by his own people and believes that the Elves should not have left the Men to stand alone. [TTT Photo Guide]
-Haldir: “In days of old our people stood beside the King of Gondor.” [TTT Visual Companion]
-Arwen is a major part of the battle of Helm’s Deep [SEE Documentary]

  • As Haldir is overcome by Uruks there is extra shots of Aragon fighting his way up the stairs to try and save him on top of the wall before he is slain.

—Eowyn battles Uruks that break into the caverns of Helm’s Deep [DVD Preview, SEE Commentary] Interestingly Gimli does not ride out on horse back with Aragorn and Theoden. Arwen is seen in a shot briefly after Eomer attacks an orc.

—Cleansing of Isengard:
-Treebeard: “There is a wizard to manage here… locked in his tower!” [TTT Photoguide]
-Additional fighting maneuvers made by Ents. [Magazine Interview] seen in pre-viz animatic {EE Documentary)

—Frodo’s Seduction:
-More fisticuffs between Frodo and Sam [Elijah Wood interview]
-The “Fallen Angel” shot of Frodo from the TTT Trailer.

Scenes/Ideas that could possible be used:

  • The Balrog climbs out of the subterranean pool, like an oily, greasy, charcoal-like torch dipped in water. Then a pursuit up the Endless Stair. (The illustrations on the TTT:EE DVD).

Return of The King

-A line of dialogue during the death of Saruman, in which he reveals that Wormtongue poisoned Théodred, giving further context as to why Wormtongue kills Saruman and Legolas in turn kills Wormtongue.

-Elrond: “The Alliance of Elves and Men is over.” “The End has Come…,”

  • Arwen in Rivendell library researching the Paths of the Dead

“We Shall see the Shire again” Merry & Pippim part ways at Edoras

Narsil being dipped in water and Brandished by the sword smith (ROTK Trailer)

-Wormtoungue feeding Saruman… Mortar and pestle

Aragorn uses a flint to light the torch into the paths of the dead alternate to slapstick gimli bone cruncher posdibly. It seems there was a more serious tone to this scene with shots of skulls and skeletons also (similar to Kong when they get to the Native village on the coast) the entrance door had further shots the re-shoots seem to add the 1000’s skulls spilling out but also comedy and poor tonal adjustment.

  • Aragorn helps heal Faramir in the Gondor House of healing.

  • Sam using the Light of Eärendil to pass the Watchers at Cirith Ungol… Or there was a shot of them simply looking imposing perhaps with red eyes.

Extra Mummakil battle foitage a sequence was removed apparently about 30 seconds in length and features an Oliphant crashing into the city wall of Minas Tirith.

  • Aragorn having his armour fitted during the preparations for the Battle of the Black Gate. This was the final scene filmed during principal photography.[17]

  • Sauron fighting Aragorn at the Black Gate. A computer-generated Troll was placed over Sauron due to Jackson feeling the scene was inappropriate. Sauron is also seen in a beautiful form as Annatar, Giver of Gifts.[17]

Extra fighting at the Black Gate Merry being wounded during the final battle which was moved to pelanor fields. Intersting shot of Legolas aiming his Bow at something I would assume Sauron to save Aragorn? Gimli Blocks an Orc attacking him.

  • The wedding of Faramir and Eowyn

I personally think the deleted scenes for the Fellowship of the Ring are of the most interest but I am sure there will be a few surprises perhaps too… Can’t wait personally.


What’s more, here’s a very interesting note from the official press release:

“In addition, it was also announced that a 4K UHD Middle-earth Ultimate Collectors’ Edition featuring the theatrical and extended versions of all six films, along with new bonus content, previously released Blu-ray discs of The Hobbit Trilogy, and remastered Blu-ray discs of The Lord of the Rings Trilogy will be released in the summer of 2021. The Lord of the Rings Trilogy featuring remastered Blu-ray discs of the theatrical and extended versions of the 3 films will also be released in the fourth quarter 2021, to celebrate the 20th anniversary of The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring.”


So far as the process went for remastering the cgi effects the 2K effects were printed out to 35mm film and then scanned at 4K…

Interesting way to do the remaster and blend better… The actual quality of the image looks great too from a few screen shots of the remaster but I have heard it has some different color grading choices but it was done by the original colorist and supervised by Peter Jackson.

Not heard of anything being changed though or tinkering so far as replacing anything ot altering something new effects say for instance.

Will be interesting to know how it will be but I have to say looks good from the screenshots the remaster.


All reports are that LOTR looks about as good as it can without re-rendering the CG at 4K. FOTR’s colors have been fixed and it sounds like the HDR grade isn’t overcooked like a lot of film-based material, which simply looks wrong with eye-searing highlights (in my opinion). Warner’s 4K releases have mostly been spot-on and I expect this one will be no exception.

I watched the extended Blu-rays earlier this year and a viewing once every year or two for epics like this is enough for me, but my 4K copy is supposed to arrive tomorrow, so I’ll probably watch it this weekend. I thought about waiting for the deluxe set, but I’m not interested in The Hobbit (sat through the first and only got about 15 minutes into the second before giving up) and I really wanted Best Buy’s steelbook set, which likely won’t be available in the long term. Administrator



Yes Indeed I watch all 3 films once a year when that time comes and I never upgraded to bluray yet because of TFOTR issue.

Seems like it is time to upgrade the edition now but I dont have a 4K player yet so I think I will wait for the Bluray set but I have to echo your remarks, it looks from the stills I saw excellent transfer top notch.


Ronster said:

So far as the process went for remastering the cgi effects the 2K effects were printed out to 35mm film and then scanned at 4K…

Technically, printing the effects shots to film wasn’t actually part of the remastering process. During post-production, some effects shots were finished as film-outs, and some were finished digitally I think. To my knowledge, the film-outs were scanned in 4K, and the digitally finished shots were simply upscaled from 2K.

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Ah ok well would be interesting to see some of the composites in this new version… Say in FOTR especiallly the CGI ruin on the hill helicopter shot is perhaps a good example actually whats weird is that shot looks good in the trailer but bad on the home release like really digital. That shot is a real oddity.

Another would be the fellowship coming over the hill one by one bluescreen composite

And Aragorn and frodi as they travel towards camera on the collapsing stairs.

Possibly the worst 3 offenders I remember looking quite iffy composites.


Thinking about creating a resource for the deleted material called “Ballins tomb” i think the list is more or less definitive and there are some bits that are just extra material that could be put in, some that might be argued is irrelevant and some that whilst might be good would make things perhaps too long, and although I am more than happy with the extended editions in terms of a “what if”, and if there was say another version ontop of the two we have a definitive version what could it be like?

When I look upon all 3 films as a whole project FOTR is the shortest extended edition and on top of this footage from FOTR ended up in TTT.

So in terms of thinking in a small natural way in also small detail “what if” TFOR was extended up to 4 hours 30 minutes approx and TTT was maintained at roughly it’s current length by including extra material but losing the scenes from FOTR it stole.

As for ROTK is it a bit too Long in places but too short in others. The Paths of the dead in the Extended edition seems to drag on too much.

But a small summing up Haldirs original plot in TFOR reinforces his appearance in TTT and Arwen at the Elven council at lothlorien reinforces her appearance at ROTK providing the outcome of that metting remains a mystery until Haldir shows up at helms deep.

The Maia spirits references do not interfere with anything it would seem in FOTR and everything else would simply be extra bits such as rivendell parts that were chopped and the odd bit of action.

What do you think of this very basic look without too much detail attached to it?

Also what is your “what if” interpretation of the scenes listed on a basic level.


Just a thought on the whole Arwen plot change whilst I agree she should not of ended up at helms deep… If she went to Lorien and looked into Galadriels Mirror as planned whilst the council of elves took place or after and then she has the vision of the child that would make sense…

So then the argument she has with Elrond about not telling her there was a child makes sense.

What do you think?

I am struggling to understand or even find a good reason for this being changed actually… Unless it was just running time rather they just did it a different way?

Ok I think I have it or sort of have it…

So there’s enough research on the Internet to make a lot of conclusions as to what Arwen’s original role was intended to be.


  1. Gilraen’s Memorial originally had a second part of the scene that ended with Elrond pushing Aragorn to cut things off with Arwen so that she would go to the Undying Lands. This deleted scene ended up in TTT as a flashback.
  2. Arwen and Aragorn’s “breakup” was originally shot for FOTR, making more sense of Arwen’s farewell shot that is still present in the Extended Edition
  3. Aragorn tells Galadriel he wants Arwen to go into the West


  1. Arwen’s vision in ROTK was originally in the first half of TTT, prompting Arwen to return to Rivendell and set off a chain of events that would send…
  2. Arwen and Elrond to Lothlorien, where they confer with Galadriel
  3. Arwen and Galadriel have a private scene of some kind…

what if the vision of the child she would have with Aragorn was from Galadriels Mirror in Lorien?
In the Two Towers when we see the Flash Back to the original plot excised from fellowship of the ring What if this was Arwen Leaving for Grey Havens then as Eowyn asks “Where is she”… That then increases the Love interest for Aragorn and Eowyn. Aragorn thinks about moving on… But she finds another reason to return to Rivendell perhaps because she senses Aragorn is in trouble as he goes off the cliff as he loses the Evenstar at this point the connection between them is broken.

The voice over on frodo suffering the Morgal Blade “let him have my lifes grace” from Arwen may very well have been meant for Aragorn near death as that is extremely confusing and makes no sense at all.

So as Arwen bolts back to Rivendell fearing Aragorn was to lose his life we then see the Balcony scene from the trailer “you have given up your lifes grace I can no longer protect you”

When Aragorn is in a bloody mess by the river perhaps Arwen and Aragorn about a good dream and the snogging then cut to the horse waking him up good gag that 😃

Elrond accepts that eventually Arwen has made the choice she has made and he takes her to Lorien where the council meeting takes place where Elrond is the one to persuade the Elves to help out and send Haldir. Elrond leaves but Arwen stays in Lorien.

Arwen feels lost about her decision knowing that Aragorn still might die in the near future or if the ring goes to Sauron she will fade quick so she looks into the Mirror of Galadriel when she sees that there is a child she rides back to Rivendell on these tiding of hope that a better future can be found. She also sees the ghosts which she does not understand…

Arwen confronts Elrond about she never told her there was the possibilty of a child.
this triggers the Re-forge the sword and the research of the paths of the dead to change the outcome and the intervention required for the future she saw in Galadriels Mirror. Seeing as they intervened at Helms deep they felt they could sway the outcome again with their actions.

The Even Star Breaks when Aragorn looks into the Palantir and Arwen begins to Fade Aragorn must fight Sauron in physical form although when the ring is destroyed I imagine he would disintergrate and the eye on the Tower would light up. Interestingly looking at the Hobbit Eye of Sauron where you can see a feint physical form wreathed within the eye seems like a unused concept to show his power growing.

That is perhaps my brief take but hey, who knows?

Ultimate cut won’t happen by Jackson but with any hope the deleted scenes will be shown.


I’m almost afraid to ask but how much DVNR was used if at all in the 4K releases, i passed on the blu rays because of the digital video noise reduction.


JadedSkywalker said:

I’m almost afraid to ask but how much DVNR was used if at all in the 4K releases, i passed on the blu rays because of the digital video noise reduction.

Some of us have been discussing it here (starting on page 8):

It’s…not good. The 1080p Blu-ray EEs have grain that’s been scrubbed from the 4K release in pretty much every effects shot, then there’s sharpening layered on top of it. Some screens look like they’ve been painted over with a brush when compared to the 1080p Blu-ray.

When there are effects-laden 4K releases like The Matrix that look reference quality, there’s no excuse for a high-profile release like this to look so bad. Administrator



Something I missed on the list which was a bone of contention between the Studio and Jackson was that we should not only get a recap of FOTR at the start of TTT but also Galadriel also had a prologue…

So a few things can be inferred from this.

We start the film with Frodo and sam wandering about lost they go to sleep. Now we have galadriels voiceover and cut to Gollem crawling down the mountain on “somone else now hunts the ring”.

This also means when Gandalf explains his encounter with the balrog to Aragorn Gimli and Legolass we get both flashbacks concurrently as one scene or whole story at the same time.

As stated previously the latter part of Galadriels monologue is taken from the council of elves scene without any input from celeborn or Elrond.

Now intetestingly it might be the case that Elrond was to open film 3 with his lines “The Alliance between Elves and men is over… The End has come” Now this dialogue could be lifted from a scene we have not seen or partially seen but it seems to me this is a confirmation of men are on their own to fight this final great battle and the elves can no longer intervene but this would be prior to Arwen persuading Elrond to re-forge Narsil and that Arwen’s life and the possible future child are in doubt so Elrond has to be persuaded to intervene but not directly like they did at helms deep. This really would not work with the Smeagol finds the ring flashback but perhaps directly afterwards prior to the party at the great hall of Rohan which shows Legolass and Gimli having drinking games and clearly distant of the men celebrating.

Anyway that about wraps up the analysis of what has been seen and heard thus far.

There is another scene not mentioned where Aragorn talks to Eowyn as she lies on a bench and Aragorn is kneeling beside her.

Hope you like the research?


In terms of making an Ultimate Cut of FOTR what would you change to make it better match the other 2 films?

To me Aside from the Aragorn & Arwen plot mess that was created here are a few thoughts.

To me I don’t mind the shots of Gollum in FOTR too much but there is a part of me that would desire to see the old design in all shots but one and I really wish to replace the close up…

I would probably vouch for a a shot of the rocks without Gollum (still of previous scene) on “the ring has brought him here” and a recap of the ring bouncing away from Gollum from the prologue on the rest of the dialogue to cover the very clearly different design totally omitting that designs presence as all the rest are acceptable.

There is a part in the Prologue where the map burns a bit then disolves to Urukhai burning the westfold from film 2… Whilst not a serious issue such as the Gollum design this also feels like simply having flames engulfing the map would have sufficed and almost implies Uruks were already around before when they were not so it’s sort of a small thing but I don’t like Uruks in the prologue.

Thirdly there is a few of effects shots in the trailer one of Aragorn when he throws the torch at the Nazgul on weathertop has a flame effect at camera wich is better and when Gandalf slams his staff there is a bright light flash effect also from the trailers when Frodo puts on the ring there are numerous flash effects when he wants to put it on not when the ring has it’s way at the prancing pony though. Use the shot from TTT in prancing pony of the ring from Galadriels monologue to replace the shot of the ring on a pure black background (no context).

The shot of the elf Ruins at Hollin which look better in the trailer / tv spot I would either find alternate landscape shots and replace as the trailer version is not in it’s entirety of the film version plus without the dialogue and meaning and talk the actual ruin is pretty redundant as Gandalf and legolass conversation is removed or if it becomes available might be worth re-instating.

Add Black Blood Splurts / splashes effects when orcs and trolls get hacked at.

Cropping things out could be employed to fix issues such as the Black Rider only visible one side of the tree as the hobbits hide on the road as he rides in and Boromir’s Hand on Aragors shoulder before he passes away and Boromirs arrow that falls out accidently on a fighting scene.

The Three Daggers given at Weathertop is an out of nowhere moment and there is no fix, unless we see the Hobbits looting the store inside the fortress ruins. The Barrow Whites and weathertop were meant to be paired down.

Adding the Green Puss to Frodos face digitaly whilst Arwen get’s rid of the Nazgul and flip shots back that are flopped.

Sting stops glowing in a few shots in Balins Tomb which would be a cool fix.

Any other Visual Fixes?

I don’t see too much wrong

Gandalfs prologue with restored music cue over Saurons appearance

I Don’t mind Gandalf Narrating the intro but don’t care for it to be changed just observe the music cue when Sauron shows up until Isildur is smashed against the rock wall, also note towards the end of the video the narration over Boromirs arrival at Rivendell. I find this quite important and should be in the film with Gandalf as Narrator introducing Boromir. Bear in mind if Gandalf had of narrated the prologue it would have been at bag end and not a prologue at all.

A newly found TTT deleted scene

Although you can only hear the Audio in this clip and some footage is available the dialogue from Saruman in the clip suggests a returning Uruk is thrown to the warg pit for failing to get the ring the shadows on the wall are of the Wargs devouring the Uruk. We then have a line about wormtoungue will get his revengue upon Theoden and Sarumen will have revenge upon the world of men. Basically “send out your Warg riders” could be an insert and there is a clear jump cut in this part of the film or it had a large chunk removed.

The Third Age game also contains many narrative lines Spoken by Gandalf most of which were recoreded for the game some which were already done for the film It is hard to know what exactly what is from the film, but there is a part about Dwarves and their friendship amongst some history of the mines of moria which is fairly world building and may well be omitted narration, but cannot confirm this.

Sauron “There is no Light in the Void…”


So upon listening to the writer and director commentary for about the fourth time it seems fellowship of the rings structural problems stem from handing off Gandalfs prologue to galadriel or perhaps deciding how much Galadriel / Gandalf / Elrond should own which and what part of the history.

At a guess if we go with galadriel recounting the story of the rings bar the very start of her Elvish Mutterings.

When gandalf leaves for minas tirith essentially you could use the very begining of Galadriels prologue here telling of “the world is changed I feel it in the water…” and so on with environment visuals…this could co-incide with Baradur being rebuilt.

Now Gandalf is at Minas Tirith researching the ring a story only fire can tell.

Gandalf arrives back in the shire and this plays out as in the film.

We then go to a recap of where gandalf had been recounting his meeting with Gollum and learning the enemy knows of the shire and had learned Gollum was captured not only by Strider and kept in Mirkwood by Thranduil but also by Mordor previously. This part is in the film as it stands is made of 3 separate versions of the conversation. How much of it is Divulged is unkonwn in alternate versions.

Once Gandalf darts off to Orthanc to meet Saruman it is then we learn not only about the Maia spirits but that “the nine have left minas morgal” to hunt the ring I feel the Visuals og the nine on horseback should be here.

The shots of the Black riders asking and attacking Hobbits are dispersed later in the timeline raising tension whilst gandalf is trapped and not before this time…

In Moria When talking of Gollum Drodo line should be shortned to “He Escaped” and Gandalf Should have his “escaped or was cutloose…” removed.

Moving Sarumans monologue on Moria could be done later to bridge the jump from them deciding to take the path to Moria and actually arriving there not whilst they are in the decision making process as it were so it would cut from the Image of the Balrog in the book to the Dwarf Aqueduct ruin.

The next scene shuffling part is after Moria Legolass talks of the Beautey of the forest the absence of the Goblins attacking which is deleted should be re-instated. The script states that Haldir takes Frodo and sam up to a high point to look out across the Woods with Dol Guldor visible and Aragorn asks for their protection. Aragorn also talks of the Beutey of the elves also Upon reaching Lorien all shots should be graded as if it were night. Legolass in Lorien in his new costume is perhaps they do arrive in the day but they do not climb the tree stairs until nightfall so there must be some kind of sunset shot missing more than likely. and possibly Haldir saying “Come with us” is preceeding climbing the tree.

This is a guess and not anything concrete but an attempt to fix the inconsistency of the lorien part.

The last part that is a mess is the sarn gebir rapids which although we don’t require a fully fledged battle scene we could have done with a few potshots taken and a quick cgi speed off down the rapids taking us to nightfall and with Gollum following on the log. This then raises the tension for the point where the Urucks catch up at Amon Hen basically rather than intercutting between urucks and the boats a physical attack would have really tied that up even at a small scale and made us feel the chase much more. Never the Less the script does state that when the fellowship look about they were meant to be seing Sarumans crows circling above them but it is missing.

This is a re-strucure guess imagining and uttetance without actually putting it to the test of trying but I am atarting to feel a slight restructure could work and perhaps to the films benefit although I don’t mind how it is if you can make it work better then why not?


Just a small update…

The Audio Dialogue for “the one ring of power has been found” is in a trailer for Gandalf telling Saruman this is the case not sure why it is not in the movie… Pretty perplexing removal.

It seems that another scene from the trailer where Gandalf is in bagend saying “The Shadow has risen” or something like that cues the Barad-dur animation segway in to the torture of Gollum and then the exterior sceam of “Shire… Baggins” which is much clearer audio cut back to Frodo “Shire…Baggins” so the Barud-dur being built was a moved scene and should have happened and been seen at bagend.

Been doing an edit of the prologue and it is much better than the original but there is a last hurdle for removing Galadriels dialogue where it is not meant to be… Anyway the prologue is getting sorted.

It was an all day afair but I had time…

Enjoy the restored music and footage and fixed chronological scene orders which was another bodge up because they kept fiddling about with it hopefully this takes it back to a nearly or close to perfect version all that is needed is Gil Galads death really…Of which is not available but hopefully will be next year.


So, do I understand good, that this year will be a lotr triology with deleted scenes? If yes, I am looking forward to see it. And I have another question, do you not know if they will make the hobbit triology with deleted scenes?