What's up with all the right-wingers on this site? — Page 4

Lj, I agree with you that the baby should not be punished for the sins of his father. And I really don't think the state should be paying for the euthanization of babies. However, I don't think she should have to lose government aid on other things because she has an abortion. Abortion is still legal in the United States, therefore I do not think people who have abortions should be demonized for it. Especially since so many of them have a hard time grasping the fact that an unborn fetus is within all reason nothing other than a human life (which is because they are taught very adamantly that it isn't). For the abortion debate to go anywhere, there is a lot of educating that needs to take place. I have confidence that sometime in the distant future, abortion will be regarded as an ignorant barbaric practice, much like we see things like female gentile mutilation and feet tying today.

The fact is the world is not a prefect place, and you end up with families who don't have the means or will to take care of their family members in need. I think the government should help people when there is a genuine need. I think it goes too far some time, and leads to enabling the ones being helped. I have worked with people who think the government owes them something for nothing. That attitude bugs the crap out of me.

I think monthly drug testing and maybe even some sort of community service requirement for those out of employment who are capable of work could go along way to making sure government aid goes to those who deserve it.

Lj, does every political conversation have to be so harshly argued? You used to be much better than this. You and I are pretty close in our political views most of the time, and I agree with much of what you have said, but not the way you have said it. Everyone is entitled to their own views. Jay is a great guy, and he rarely ever engages in discussion with us. The very few times he does I am very happy to hear what he has to say, whether I agree with it or not. I think you were being a bit harsh on the guy. Your arguments (and you often have very good ones) will go over a lot better if they are more calmly presented.

I agree that I went a little overboard.  It's probably because I have rarely if ever seen Jay post in a political discussion thread.  Couple that with the insane idea that because it's the "United States" that it means we're all suddenly suppose to start taking care of each other, regardless of circumstances, and I got a little bent out of shape.

Now, do I agree with any kind of government care?  Sure, for veterans and for people who honestly have nowhere else to go.  Veterans serve this country and deserve at least some kind of services for that.

On the other hand, I am almost completely against "Universal Healthcare".  I have enough problems of my own that I don't need the govt deciding that they need to take even more of my money to help everyone else because of their situation as well.  I have a mortgage, a wife, a kid, and one more on the way.  If I have money left over at the end of the month, let me decide how best to use it.  It might go to home repairs, charity, or to help some poor shmoe on the street.  In fact, I would rather directly donate to a charity or a food bank where I know the money/food is going to go to people that need it, instead of some govt worker who's only going to do the bare minimum work necessary to get through the day.

What I really don't appreciate is the unnecessary interjection of what is essentially a national security issue into a discussion on govt provided healthcare (that's what got this going).  National security is the primary responsibility of the federal government.  So if they need to spend half a million dollars on a Clinton policy, so be it.

My feelings about this womans family and her stepdad stand.  He's a sick fuck.  They need to step up and help her out.  Especially considering that she may be developmentally disabled.  I can't even find anything recent on this whole thing, so we don't even know what happened.  Whether she got the abortion or not, she's still going to need some help from someone.  There's going to be emotional damage as well as further healthcare necessary, both because of the abortion and the incest.

I also stand by my opinion that if you want to help someone out, by all means please do.  I don't have a problem helping people out.  I do it all the time.  I have a problem with the govt saying "You have to help these people out".

I think it's a bit of bullshit that I get attacked for having a strong argument against govt healthcare and it being "our" problem, but the "Emperor" gets a pass for his snide remarks.  You're entitled to your opinion, but I fired back the way I did because of your snotty remarks.  If you want socialized healthcare so much, move to Canada.  I hear it's great as long as you don't get sick.

lordjedi

I'm sorry but you are a very selfish man. Go travel the world a little and see what happens in those countries where the government does not take care of the poor. And you wonder why democrats have some a low opinion of some republicans, its the ME ME ME additude, the 'i don't care for anyone except myself' veiw point that just causes them so much grief. 

I live in canada, and we have a universal healthcare system, and very hightaxes, and you know what yeah its not perfect, but we have a much cleaner society, we dont have people dieing on the side of the streets(as would happen without medicare), or getting kicked out of hospitals with major injuries just because they dont have insurance.

I personally am heading into the medical feild. Maybe you should be the one to tell the person with a broken leg that they have to leave. Or tell the girl that got raped face to face, tough luck missy, you now need to be an incubator for the next nine months and have your vagina stretched wide enough for a beachball to come through. You speak with little to no empathy for others. Yes it is unfortunate that your father died, but we are not talking about brain cancer(which does suck i am sorry about that, I currently am working at the BC Cancer agency, research cancer treatment) but you are dealing with apples and oranges, medicare will not cover someones costs ever if they have cancer. medicare is for more common everyday things. Flu medicine, antibiotics. You say your not very weathly. Well you have a job that pays enough for you to get a computer and have the internet. That puts you head and shoulders above alot of other people.

And for the record, how much biology have you studied, what do you consider to be a new life. I am literally shocked at how appalled people get at abbortion, you know how many embryos they through in the trash at fertility clinic. Yet you never hear anyone outlawing those, hmm. If you want to call a embryo a life because it has the potiental to grow into a new person, why not take it a step further, sperm and eggs have the same potiental. Hmm, its not a cut and dry subject when it comes to what you define as 'new life'. I wonder really what your opinion would be if you had to an incubator for 9 months.

anyway i am done in here, you just don't get it, and from this point on, its my own problem if i continue to argue with you. Your beleifs span from some fundemental values(i am not saying those values are wrong but... i donno if they are the best kind to have living in our world today), and i have little or no hope of changing your even persuading you of another veiwpoint especially on an internet forum. The only thing that will do that is if you have a real experience and go and see stuff for yourself.

shimy said:

lordjedi

 

I'm sorry but you are a very selfish man. Go travel the world a little and see what happens in those countries where the government does not take care of the poor. And you wonder why democrats have some a low opinion of some republicans, its the ME ME ME additude, the 'i don't care for anyone except myself' veiw point that just causes them so much grief.

I stopped reading here (I will read the rest later though).

I have a ME attitude?  Just proves how much you don't know me.  Did you even read the above messages?  I have a son to take care of.  I have a mortage to pay.  I have medical bills.

I could've stayed single and chosen to horde my money (even then I didn't horde it, I once lent my sister $1000 so she could get into an apartment).  Instead, I chose to get married, buy a house, and start a family.  Everything I do revolves around my family.  I chose to start riding my bike 7 miles each way to work and back in order to save my family $100 per month in gas.  I don't like riding my bike one bit, but considering that I'd rather face that hardship then sink all that money into a car every month, I'll take the bike.

In those countries where the govt doesn't "take care of the poor", the govt also usually has policies that prevent anyone from doing anything productive.  Take a look at those countries yourself.  You've got Cuba and China, where they can come in and shut down your business or take your home, on a whim.  The difference between those two is that China actually seems to like business and Cuba doesn't.  You've got Mexico, where they'd rather educate their citizens on how to cross the northern border and survive instead of actually putting some power into the hands of the people and making some investments in private industry in their own country.  In the meantime, they've also militarized their southern border to keep people from coming in from South America.

Now I'm sorry if I have a lot more responsibilities than the average joe and make all my decisions based on those responsibilities and the consequences of my actions.  Life hasn't been easy (is it ever for anyone?) and I struggled to get where I am.  Sure, I didn't start off dirt poor, but I didn't start off with much except a good home.  We weren't rich growing up, I wouldn't even say we were well off.  We had food on the table and that's about it.  Personally, I'd like my son to have a little more than I did growing up.  But I guess I should just accept govt control of healthcare because other people need it so much more than I do.  I guess I should be willing to turn over even more of my paycheck (that I work hard for) in exchange for govt services that I'm never going to use and will probably be abused by people looking to game the system.

I did go back and read the rest of your message after typing that.  I'll now respond:

shimy said:

or getting kicked out of hospitals with major injuries just because they dont have insurance.

That does not happen here either.  Read my above messages.  It is illegal to kick someone out of a hospital.  If you go to a hospital, even without insurance, they must treat you.  That is law.  It's also why emergency rooms and hospitals are getting over run and going into debt.  They must treat you.

You say your not very weathly. Well you have a job that pays enough for you to get a computer and have the internet. That puts you head and shoulders above alot of other people.

Here you're assuming a lot.  For all you know, I could be doing this at a library.  Libraries have computers too now you know.  But I'll be honest.  Yeah,  I have a computer at work that's supplied by work.  I also have a job that lets me have one at home with Internet.  Of course, most people making even around $30k per year (that's $15 per hour) have a computer, Internet, and a cell phone.  I was fortunate earlier in life that I was able to work with computers for my job.  Would I have Internet and a computer at home if I were making less?  Sure, but I'd probably have a much slower speed connection at home and a computer that wasn't as good.  Why?  Because I would have more important things to spend my money on.  Even now I don't have the system or connection I would like because I simply do not have the money for it.

But I didn't just get all the stuff.  I didn't pop into existence for me.  I had to go to school and work my way up in the world in order to get there.  I had to not only gain experience, but gain a reputation for being a badass at what I do.  I don't accept "No" or "We can't do that" for an answer.  I always want an explanation and I always try to find a way to get something done.  And I always try to find a way to do things faster, whether through automation or eliminating unnecessary steps.

And for the record, how much biology have you studied, what do you consider to be a new life.

I consider it a new life at the moment of conception.

I am literally shocked at how appalled people get at abbortion, you know how many embryos they through in the trash at fertility clinic. Yet you never hear anyone outlawing those, hmm. If you want to call a embryo a life because it has the potiental to grow into a new person, why not take it a step further, sperm and eggs have the same potiental.

1. Yes and I am sickened by it (the fertility clinic throwing away embryos).

2. Where have you been?  There are plenty of groups that are calling for outlawing at the very least trashing the embryos and are also totally against IVF.  The Catholic religion is totally against IVF.  Many Christians are totally against throwing away embryos and would love nothing more than to have that practice banned.  Just because you don't hear about it on the nightly news doesn't mean they aren't against it.  A friend of mine did IVF and they've kept the remaining embryos frozen, even though they got twins out of the first batch, because they are staunchly pro-life.

3.  I love that "It has the potential to grow into a new person".  Does that make it easier to kill a life?  It must.  The fact is that as long as the mother is in good health and takes care of themselves, an embryo will always grow into a new person (unless there's a miscarriage or some other natural process at work).  It doesn't have "potential", it just does.  What, do we expect it to turn into a cat instead?  Or maybe a car.  Not without some kind of genetic intervention (not sure if you could get a car that way).  The baby might be born with birth defects or it might be healthy.  The point is that it's still going to come out as a human baby.

4. Um, ok.  So sperm and eggs have the same potential.  And?  Sorry, I don't see your point here.  Am I suppose to get up in arms every time my wife has her period because we didn't make it a baby instead?  That's a natural process.  An abortion is not a natural process (unless the body does it through miscarriage or something like that).

Hmm, its not a cut and dry subject when it comes to what you define as 'new life'. I wonder really what your opinion would be if you had to an incubator for 9 months.

My wife is pro-choice.  If she ever got raped, we'd both be devistated (her more so than me obviously) and I'd want the SOB dead.  If she ended up pregnant from it, I would not be ok with her getting an abortion.  I would hope that she'd agree with me and agree to keep it.  I don't know what I would do if she chose to get an abortion.  I know I'd be devistated (yes, I have thought about this).  Just because the child isn't mine doesn't mean we can't raise it in a good household.  I use to be ok with abortion in the case of rape and incest.  Then one day I thought to myself "But why is that ok?  What did the baby do to deserve it?  What crime did the child commit?".  That's when I changed my mind.  I do hope that I never have to deal with that kind of decision.  I know it's not an easy one to make, but it's one that I have already made in my mind.  But I'm not the only one whose mind has to be made.

shimy said:

anyway i am done in here, you just don't get it, and from this point on, its my own problem if i continue to argue with you. Your beleifs span from some fundemental values(i am not saying those values are wrong but... i donno if they are the best kind to have living in our world today), and i have little or no hope of changing your even persuading you of another veiwpoint especially on an internet forum. The only thing that will do that is if you have a real experience and go and see stuff for yourself.

Don't go.  I didn't have a problem having an ongoing debate with you.

Yes, I do have some fundamental beliefs.  Most of them stem from personal responsibility.  If bad things happen to you, even things out of your control, grab life by the horns and take control back.

For the record, I've seen plenty of places myself.  I don't like them one bit and I'm happy that my country has the freedoms it has.  I've seen homeless people on the streets of LA.  I've seen people in Tijuana hocking whatever they can in order to get by.  Yeah, the difference between me and them is that I was born here.  The only difference is that my govt didn't take a heavy handed approach to everything.  My govt made a free country where people could come from all walks of life and improve themselves, if only they have the desire to do it and are willing to work hard to make it happen.  Plenty of people have come here with less and have even more than they could ever imagine.  Check out Chris Gardner for a prime example.  Sure he didn't come from a foreign country, but that guy has been through hell and back.

lordjedi said:

I think it's a bit of bullshit that I get attacked for having a strong argument against govt healthcare and it being "our" problem, but the "Emperor" gets a pass for his snide remarks. You're entitled to your opinion, but I fired back the way I did because of your snotty remarks. If you want socialized healthcare so much, move to Canada. I hear it's great as long as you don't get sick.

C3PX made "snotty" remarks and Jay made "snide" remarks? You should give people the benefit of the doubt more. I also think you're being overly defensive. The world isn't helped by winning arguments alone. Truth is what's actually important and if people want to express their emotions and look down on others, that's their ridiculous prerogative. Even if you're right about what you feel is coming from others, you can be better than that. Why behave in an equally meaningless manner?

My philosophy, when it comes to individual cases that seem wrong, is to simply say that shit happens. The girl losing assistance is sad, but the fact that we use government to assist people is also sad. The world moves on. There are bigger problems than one girl and yet just one more example of corrupt, government assistance.

Actually, I was referring to Jay's remarks with the snotty bit, not C3PX's.  Actually, everything past the first sentence of the paragraph you quoted is referring to Jay's remarks towards me.

I wasn't out to win an argument, at least not originally.  I was having, I thought, a peaceful debate with shimy when Jay stuck his two cents in.  Actually, it wasn't so much a debate at the time as it was a conversation.  It felt like I was talking to somebody on the street and then some stranger walked up in the middle of the conversation and started poking in with comments without knowing any of the context.  Now obviously Jay has the benefit of being able to look through the whole conversation and speak his mind based on what he's read, but it definitely felt like an attack from nowhere.

We don't technically know what happened with the girl anyway.  It seems that it was interesting enough to report on 10 years ago (when it happened) and during the Republican campaign when Huckabee was running, but it apparently wasn't interesting enough to follow up on afterwards.  I'm sure there's something in a local Arkansas paper, but since I'm out here in California, I can't really use those as a source.  I've tried to find some updated reports on it, but I've come up dry.

Now I think I'm done with this as well.  At least this thread anyway.  I think this thread is going to go the same way as the politics thread.  Either way, I don't care anymore since I won't be reading it.

shimy said:

Your beleifs span from some fundemental values(i am not saying those values are wrong but... i donno if they are the best kind to have living in our world today), and i have little or no hope of changing your even persuading you of another veiwpoint especially on an internet forum. The only thing that will do that is if you have a real experience and go and see stuff for yourself.

What makes you think some of us have not had "real experience" and seen stuff for ourselves? I know this was directed at lj, but seriously, you guys sometimes seem to take such a high ground, assuming what you know is right because your experiences have told you it was. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems like from your eyes somebody could only be a right winger is if they simply were not enlightened and didn't know any better. Comments like "I am not saying those values are wrong but... I don't know if they are the best kind to have living in our world today" seem to indicate this. What is that even suppose to mean? If someone doesn't think like you, then perhaps, being non-conformist as they are, the world would be a better place without them.

Shimy, one of your problems is the fact that you said you are giving up having this conversation because you know you are not going to persaude lj into changing his viewpoint to your viewpoint. If lj would be so easily persuaded, then you wouldn't have much of a viewpoint would he? You should not feel the need to change peoples viewpoints in life, it is futile. Everyones experiences and perseptions shape the way they are, that is why no two people think exactly the same, and that is a good thing. You really want to live in a world where everyone agrees with you? That would be a dangerous world. The whole point of discussing politics for me, and why I enjoy it so much, is because I enjoy hearing other peoples point of views, and I enjoy thought provoking discussion that prompts me to think about things outside of my walls of experience.

I think this quote pretty much sums up his attitude as being a Basher of Christian's and the values they stand for.

"I am not saying those values are wrong but... I don't know if they are the best kind to have living in our world today"

Come from the same narrow minded elitest liberal militant atheists/communist socialist slant attitudes.

Who want in God we trust taken off the money, and the pledge of allegiance taken out of schools and the ten commandments banned.

I bet your favorite song is Imagine by John Lennon who was a well known commie and hippie.

A lot of liberals pretend to be Catholics. But the values they talk of politically cannot be other than Anti Christ.

John Kerry probably would be president right now if he was pro life and not pro choice.

Boy am i glad not to be a Canadian. Some of those French Canadians are even bigger traitors than the French who live in France.

I have French Canadian blood in my family tree folks and let me tell you i am not overly fond of having a french last name.

I had a French American great uncle who died on the beach of Normandy only to have the French say of the dead soldiers bodies "come and pick up your trash"

God knows ( Sarcasm intended) that we need socialist health care to bankrupt our country, and we need to surrender to the Taliban. Lose the war, retreat and wave the white flag.

We need to stick our heads in the sands and hope the islamofascists don't fly more planes into buildings or better still explode an Atomic Warhead on U.S. soil.

We need to weaken our national defense, and when offered to handing over Bin Ladin say no like Billy Bob the simpleton Clintoon.

We also needed to sell our Nuclear Secrets and satellite data to red china for illegal campaign funds, so that any time the chinese want to help their allies the north koreans or iran launch a nuclear missile strike on the us we are fair game.

By the same token i am not as Bushie or whatever you call people who love bush.

His handling of the economy and the war in Iraq is actually helping the communists Chinese government and helping them slowly takeover us.

We use china which is communist for the evil side of capitalism like making money off slave workers, and keeping the country communist to serve our own ends.

China needs to be a democracy and as a democracy you think the first thing the us would do would be to free the people right?, wrong.

Slave Labor and wholesale murder of babies to keep their population in check are discusting.

You would expect such from a former third world country like china, but from the united states of america?

Abortion should be abolished since it is against the founding fathers values. "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" Underline Life.

Clinton Lovers and Bush Lovers are both wrong.  The whole 2 party system is set up to divide and conquer.  Both Parties are full of criminals and profiteers.

We have had 2 of the worst presidents in the history of the United States back to back, and i have little hope things will get better if Barack is elected.

MClone also is no savior as he will bring back the draft, and keeps trying to tie the 911 attackers to Iraq which is absolutely false, and the same as the bush camp.

UM excuse me i really take that christian basher line to heart, i suppose you dont know but my best friend is a very religious, non denomination christian( I am his best man for when he gets married next year, you think a chirstian would make a christian basher his bestman, who is assuming now jackass), 3 of my roommates are very devote baptists. You think I have an elitist mindset, I'm sorry you think that way, thats your problem the fact of the matter is, that the argument is going in a circular pattern now, and I dont have the time or effort to argue with people over things like this over a board, sit down and have a coffee with me and ill debate you till the sunset. The fact of the matter is so many of your ideas are contradictory and i just dont want to sit here on a forum debating it all day long cause frackly I dont have the time nor effort for it. if any of you dumbasses(Lj your not included in that) had read my previous posts you'd see that i am not a democrat, and that i see good and bad in both sides.

Here is an example of a contradiction I see, now i am assuming you are religious here in the view point. you are opposed to abortion, cause its a unborn life (thats fine and noble i have no problem with that however keep in mind you don't know the kid, you have no idea about any about him/her). however when it comes to your money all you care about are those who are directly around you(LJ when i said me me me, i was including your family in that lump sum sry of that wasn't clear) and you dont want your money going into medicare, or welfare or anything like that(again i am assuming you are against wellfare if you arent i am sry), Now i am assuming the reason for that is because you dont want to give money to these people because you feel they dont work hard(get me some stats on that to back up your veiwpoint if that is the case). So often the case i find here is that you dont know these people so you dont want to give money to them, why are these people so different from the baby. You care for one but not the other, and dont kid yourself, so many of these people would be dead, without medicare or welfare so dont think you can ride the high horse and say the baby's life is in question. There are worse things out there then death, and if you are so keen on judging these people, oh there is a line out there some guy said it, i think his name iwas JESUS, "Let ye without sin cast the first stone" people make mistakes in there life, and thats how they end up on welfare, i am sure you made mistakes not as big as they did but still, every person was once that little fetus you want to save so badly, and you want to not give them money cayse you worked hard for it and they didn't you may not think like this, but thats the way I see it when i hear people saying they dont support welfare or medicare because the poeple that use it are crackheads or whatever the excuse is. In my opinion there is no excuse that isnt selfish unless you are giving more then you can afford to give, because these people are less fortunate then you, and being a good person you help them. Thats what we do in Canada and America, we help people that are less fortunate then us. You may argue that oh the welfare and medicare are the governments way of forcing us to give charity. IT SHOULDNT BE A PROBLEM,you are giving your money to help people that are less fortunate. And you know what after allt hat if you still have a problem how about you just think like this. Not everyones money goes to medicare and welfare only part of the taxes go there. Just assume, or think, that your money went to buying that cruise missle that blew up the poor families house cause it missed its target. or that your money went towards buying the bullets that have killed so many people in a country you probably have never even been to. what about thoy se peoples lives you have no problem apposing abortion but you are all about supplying money to your army that yes may save some lives, but are designed to kill. They may be different issues but a life is a life. And here you may argue oh well those are the bad guys they want to kill us. EVER wonder hmm why do thewant to kill us. So many issues it can jump all over the place but thats the thing that frustrates me. You hold your views so strongly on all fronts when at the basic purist level they are so contradictory. On one hand you care about the babys life, on the other hand you dont give a fuck for someone who had a rough life, ever wonder why they got addicted to crack, you gotta start somewhere, nor do you care about the people dieing around the world due to the american military yeah they may be 'bad guys' but ever wonder why they are the way they are. A life is a LIFE. you dont know those people that your money goes towards hurting or killing yet you judge them as bad right away and justify your armies actions, or so it seems please correct me if i am wrong. I would be a much happier person if i was wrong.

and thats it i am done, cause now your pissing me off, calling me a christian basher, OH i could bash the fuck out of your religion if i wanted to but i choose not to cause i was respectful of your beliefs, fucking douche go hump your womanising, slavery condoning, cencored(oh yes your holy book has been 'modified' many a time) book.

now seeing as i broke probably about a dozen forum roles, insulting other forum member, and what not, jay i await your banning me.

For the record i have nothing against medicare, or social security or even wellfare when used by people in need and people have paid into the system.

I do have a problem with people looking for a free ride or a way to cheat the system.

I am a statistically poor below middle class former working American.

Currently disabled and on medicare and social security for a hopefully very temporary time.

I do rely on taxdollars, as i do live in low income housing.

The democrats have done some good things, but sometimes wellfare can become a crutch if people cannot find a way out.

No you don't get rich off of social security ever try living on 4000 dollars a year?

Still i don't feel entitled to anything at all just by being born an American. But I have no qualms taken assistance since i worked my ass off and paid into the system, unlike illegals and deadbeats.

I apologize and am sorry if i came off an asshole. I just figured you were one of those types who hated christians.

Seems from what you were saying you only hate the extremist or fanatics, who can be as bad as islamic extremists in their missapplication of the virtues of the gospels.

I never claimed to not be a sinner and be without Sin.

I also never claimed the worldly values of being an American were always in step with the Values of Jesus Christ and the christian church.

Indeed helping others is a virtue but i don't think it should be forcefully done, i think people should do it voluntarily.

Helping others can change peoples hearts and minds. But forcing people to do it is wrong in the same way Jesus forces no one to believe but allows free will.

We live in a fallen world full of dangers and evil.  Sure if the world had no religions people supposedly would live at peace amongst themselves, the hippies do say.

Me i believe God had a son that came to Earth in the flesh of a human being and died on a cross so that i would not perish but have eternal life.

IF that is believing in foolish fairy stories as some seem to think then too bad for them, at least i want to live for something bigger and greater than  myself by believing in a higher power.

shimy said:

fucking douche go hump your womanising, slavery condoning, cencored(oh yes your holy book has been 'modified' many a time) book

You might want to learn what you are talking about before saying stupid things. But most people never do, so it is okay, once again you fall in line with the conformists. The Bible has not been "modified" or "censored" in the way your are claiming it has. It is easy to bend facts and come up with crap like this, but it simply is not true.

Anyway, Shim, you are completely barking at shadows. You still don't really know what we "dumbasses" believe or think. Of course a life is a life. Anyway, there is no point in debating this, but please stop insulting everyone, and please stop thinking you know everything.

i've been away a long time....started an account in 06 then forgot for a while.

i've spent so much time in The Pit on ultimate-guitar.com, i forgot what it was like to have republicans on the forums.

I'M HOME AT LAST!

I'm conservative too.  

However, I think that both John McCain and Obama are completely missing the big issue. The issue nobody's talking about- the real reason why our economy is sinking.  

Watch this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD6MUWi-1gE

Trooperman said:

I'm conservative too.  

 

However, I think that both John McCain and Obama are completely missing the big issue. The issue nobody's talking about- the real reason why our economy is sinking.  

 

Watch this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD6MUWi-1gE

Those issues are real, but China is hurting itself in the long run too.

What's worse, if you ask me, is the out of control inflation which is motivated by the fear our politicians have of trying to avoid something like a run on the banking system. It devalues the wealth of poor people (simple dollars) and gives that money to rich people (who own stable, non-dollar investments) by negating any large debts they've taken on. Anyone who was responsible and didn't get into lots of debt, or purchase items beyond their means, is now suffering for the mistakes of rich Wallstreet investors.

McCain might be willing to do something about this mess (if he knew what to do), but most of the damage is already done (he'd simply avoid more damage). Obama, on the other hand, just wants to make everything worse by raising taxes (what a fucking fool). I don't think any politician has the smarts or the guts to do what's right and risk a DEPRESSION (oh noes!).

Oh, I think we're going to get a depression within the next 4 years.  I don't think there's any question of that.  But I agree that if McCain knew what to do, if he surrounded himself with people that knew what to do, he could stand a chance to start digging us out of this hole we're in.

But Obama would make the situation much, much worse by putting even more restrictions on American industries.  And raising taxes of course and playing "Robin Hood" with the U.S.

I thought it was decent. Normally I wouldn't say this, but I thought he should have let Obama speak a bit more. Obama's policies are self-evidently wrong headed; O'reilly didn't need to frame the discussion so much.

Darth Chaltab said:

I thought it was decent. Normally I wouldn't say this, but I thought he should have let Obama speak a bit more. Obama's policies are self-evidently wrong headed; O'reilly didn't need to frame the discussion so much.

I agree.  O'Reilly shouldn't have interrupted so much.  He should have just let him talk and make a fool of himself.  That was bad etiquette on O'Reilly's part.

Trooperman said:

Oh, I think we're going to get a depression within the next 4 years.  I don't think there's any question of that.  But I agree that if McCain knew what to do, if he surrounded himself with people that knew what to do, he could stand a chance to start digging us out of this hole we're in.

I'd say we're in a depression right now (considering elements like inflation which mask it). The government just wants everyone to suffer (and not the people who made the poor investments).

Janskeet said:

 is this really that unusual?

Yes.

Janskeet said:

The econemy goes up and down all the time, is this really that unusual?

It depends upon what you're asking that about. If it's about how people and businesses often fail to meet expectations due to poor planning and unforseen circumstances, then no, that's not unusual. If you're asking me if a government policy of high inflation is unusual, then I would say yes (or that at least it should be). If it's about the high levels of corporate taxation and other taxes that drain our country's economic strength, then I would, again, say that our current situation is unusual (or at least it should be). Lastly, if it's about government regulations and threats mandating and encouraging poor investments in our economy, then hell yes. There's been a lot of crap going on in this area lately (from mortgages to oil prices).