Abrams only refused at first as a negotiating tactic. It as nothing to do with artistic or creative integrity. It's about money primarily and anybody who believes otherwise is deluding themselves. I do not believe this movie will suck worse than the prequel trilogy, at worst it will be an inferior OT modernized formulaic clone, at best, it will restore credibility to the Star Wars brand and plant the seeds of a new hope for future films.
Rebel1one1 said:
Abrams only refused at first as a negotiating tactic. It as nothing to do with artistic or creative integrity. It's about money primarily and anybody who believes otherwise is deluding themselves.
So you read his thoughts?
If memory serves Abrams claimed he was "too much of a fan" to take on the film when it was initially offered. Not to mention the fact that he pointed out his "loyalty" to Star Trek. Than shortly thereafter he is officially named TFA director. It's obvious that it was about financial compensation. JJ Abrams apparent loyalty to his iteration of Star Trek clearly was not going to sway him from the potentially highest payday of his career. Even if it sucks, it's a win/win for him because the money will keep him secure and he would be welcomed back to Star Trek regardless of success or failure with The Force Awakens.
Rebel1one1 said:
If memory serves Abrams claimed he was "too much of a fan" to take on the film when it was initially offered. Not to mention the fact that he pointed out his "loyalty" to Star Trek. Than shortly thereafter he is officially named TFA director. It's obvious that it was about financial compensation. JJ Abrams apparent loyalty to his iteration of Star Trek clearly was not going to sway him from the potentially highest payday of his career. Even if it sucks, it's a win/win for him because the money will keep him secure and he would be welcomed back to Star Trek regardless of success or failure with The Force Awakens.
Maybe the person convinced him they were interested in making a good film while making a shit ton of money. That in conjunction with him being a fan of the series was probably the deciding factor. People now a days act as if you can only have one reason for doing anything. As if there aren't any other factors in play when it comes to making decisions.
Also if this film sucks his career will take a huge hit. Sure he'll make a lot of money but his credibility is tarnished.
I don't believe his credibility will be tarnished. The reality is Abrams has been a very successful director in spite of some of the mediocre products he has been responsible for. Star Trek Into Darkness comes to mind immediately as being an example of a completely lackluster effort that should have knocked him down several thousand pegs. It's scary that he went from Into Darkness to Episode VII. However, yes because he is an uber-fan of Star Wars hopefully this will be his greatest film as well as a wonderful Star Wars movie. The only reason I disagree about the argument of him being a fan playing a big role in him taking on the movie as director is because Abrams himself used that as one of the main reasons why he didn't want to helm the film. It is not like he was not aware that The Force Awakens would make a "shit ton" of money when he was initially offered the job. He knew Disney wanted him and therefore was in a position to get whatever piece of the pie he felt he deserved.
Rebel1one1 said:
I don't believe his credibility will be tarnished. The reality is Abrams has been a very successful director in spite of some of the mediocre products he has been responsible for. Star Trek Into Darkness comes to mind immediately as being an example of a completely lackluster effort that should have knocked him down several thousand pegs. It's scary that he went from Into Darkness to Episode VII. However, yes because he is an uber-fan of Star Wars hopefully this will be his greatest film as well as a wonderful Star Wars movie. The only reason I disagree about the argument of him being a fan playing a big role in him taking on the movie as director is because Abrams himself used that as one of the main reasons why he didn't want to helm the film. It is not like he was not aware that The Force Awakens would make a "shit ton" of money when he was initially offered the job.
One of the reasons I believe in him is because after Into Darkness he needs to redeem himself and this is the perfect opportunity. Not only that, due to him being a fan this would cause him to try his damnedest to make this film special.
Like I said before maybe he initially thought Disney was only doing another Star Wars film just for a cash grab, but then maybe he was convinced that they intended TFA to be a good film. And even if money was the primary reason he initially neglected to direct the movie that doesn't mean he doesn't intend on making a good film.
I agree he intends to make a good film. I doubt very much he would have considered the project at all if he didn't think he could make it great. I think a lot of it is when you love something so much and are very close to it, you run the risk of failure because of trying too hard to get it right.
Rebel1one1 said:
I agree he intends to make a good film. I doubt very much he would have considered the project at all if he didn't think he could make it great. I think a lot of it is when you love something so much and are very close to it, you run the risk of failure because of trying too hard to get it right.
Being to close can also have it's benefits. It could make him know what belongs in a Star Wars film and what doesn't. It could also lead him to know what experiments or risk he should take and ones he shouldn't.
It always amazes me how much Star Wars fans seem to hate Star Wars. Yeah, TFA could suck, in which case I just won't watch it all the time, just like the prequels. Until then, isn't giving it the benefit of the doubt and hoping it turns out to be good a much less miserable way to live? Even if it's a masterpiece, I honestly think half the people here won't even be capable of registering it because they're so locked into the idea that it needs to suck. Maybe I'm being naive, but I'd rather be happily hopeful for now and potentially disappointed later than uniformly bitter and wretched for the duration.
joefavs said:
It always amazes me how much Star Wars fans seem to hate Star Wars. Yeah, TFA could suck, in which case I just won't watch it all the time, just like the prequels. Until then, isn't giving it the benefit of the doubt and hoping it turns out to be good a much less miserable way to live? Even if it's a masterpiece, I honestly think half the people here won't even be capable of registering it because they're so locked into the idea that it needs to suck. Maybe I'm being naive, but I'd rather be happily hopeful for now and potentially disappointed later than uniformly bitter and wretched for the duration.
^
"I'd rather be happily hopeful for now and potentially disappointed later than uniformly bitter and wretched for the duration"
...should be a new Star Wars T-shirt.
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
Yes!
joefavs said:
Maybe I'm being naive, but I'd rather be happily hopeful for now and potentially disappointed later than uniformly bitter and wretched for the duration.
That's a valid option. As is being cynical and disinterested, with the possibility of being pleasantly surprised later. The fact is the thing doesn't exist and can't be evaluated, so we're just setting expectations. You go your way, I'll go mine. There's no wretchedness or misery either way you choose, if you're not personally invested in the outcome.
It always amazes me how much Star Wars fans seem to hate Star Wars.
Pulled from the headlines of TFN. Star Wars is many things to many people, and for many of us, it's just a few films from a few decades ago, and we love them dearly. The rest is not really Star Wars at all and can DIAF for all we care.
I honestly think half the people here won't even be capable of registering it because they're so locked into the idea that it needs to suck.
People complaining nonstop for three decades that every new or revised Star Wars film sucks would be an indicator of a bias, if it weren't for the fact that every new or revised Star Wars film has sucked for the last three decades. For my part, I can give you my unqualified reassurances that I'm very open to the idea of something new in the Star Wars universe that doesn't suck. Going into it with the expectation that it will be good is contrary to years of experience, and, yes, I'd say naïve, but it's not a prerequisite for liking the film. Films can surprise you, films have surprised me, TFA could be a huge surprise, and I'd be delighted if it was. But my money's on meh.
EDIT: In case it needs pointing out, please note that "meh" is much better than "suck". "Meh" is literally the most value-neutral expectation a person could have about anything.
Star Wars is many things to many people, and for many of us, it's just a few films from a few decades ago, and we love them dearly. The rest is not really Star Wars at all and can DIAF for all we care.
I totally get that, but what I can't understand is the people who hold that opinion and yet still feel the need to dump all over everything else (not accusing you of that in particular, you're usually very even-handed from what I've seen). I love the Beatles. I also think everything Paul McCartney's put out in the last 35 years or so is complete garbage. I have no interest in moaning about how awful Paul McCartney is now, though. Nobody's forcing me to listen to those albums he released through Starbucks, and there's nothing he can do now that can make the stuff he did in the 60's any less brilliant, so I'm happy to go about my business as if that stuff didn't exist. I think a lot of people feel this way about a lot of things, musicians especially. There's a subset of Star Wars fans, though, who seem to become violently angry at the idea that anyone would have the gall to try to continue the franchise past the arbitrary endpoint they privately drew before The Phantom Menace, or after the Thrawn trilogy, or after Empire, or Splinter of the Mind's Eye. If you're not considering it a part of your Star Wars anyway, no one needs to know how terrible you know TFA is going to be. I think everyone would be better off if these people would stop getting themselves upset over something they've already decided not to recognize and allow everyone else to enjoy a version of the franchise that isn't dead.
I think the general idea is that if I actually had my respectful unaltered Blu-ray trilogy, I wouldn't even be here. In fact--and I've said this before--if it happened, I would likely close up my projects, pack up, and leave without even saying good bye. Complaining and waiting for something that won't happen, and hanging out with other people who are also complaining and waiting for something that won't happen, is something unique to the Star Wars community. I'd even say it's the foundation for most of that community. It's why there's enough of us here to talk about TFA at all. The reason there's no similar community trash-talking Paul McCartney's albums (I agree, BTW), is that good-quality recordings of the Beatles that people love are widely available, so there's no community of similarly frustrated Beatles fans to do it.
Again, I don't "know" TFA will be terrible. I think the odds aren't good, and that's not really the same thing at all. I'll wait for the reviews to come in, decide then whether to see it at all, and maybe I'll add it to my personal canon if I like it. But no, I'm not going to wait in line for it like I did for TPM.
Yes!
.
And everything else that everyone is basing their opinions on at this point...
I hope it does not come down to this for anyone!
"ST.PAUL, Minn. Aug. 25, 1979 (AP) -- The parents of a 15-year-old boy who jumped 200 feet to his death from a bridge after Battlestar Galactica was canceled say the boy's whole life was wrapped up in the television space show.
"I hope we never ever see it on TV again, because it would just crush us," Dawn Seidel, the boy's stepmother, said Saturday."
“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison
ray_afraid said:
And everything else that everyone is basing their opinions on at this point...
But there's so little to go on saying you have an "opinion" is half baked at best. We don't even know what the plot of the film is. We have little tid bits but nothing more.
FanFiltration said:
I hope it does not come down to this for anyone!
"ST.PAUL, Minn. Aug. 25, 1979 (AP) -- The parents of a 15-year-old boy who jumped 200 feet to his death from a bridge after Battlestar Galactica was canceled say the boy's whole life was wrapped up in the television space show.
"I hope we never ever see it on TV again, because it would just crush us," Dawn Seidel, the boy's stepmother, said Saturday."
I doubt it. At least I hope so. It's a lot easier for someone to reach out for help than in the 70's. It was not a great era for people acknowledging that their kid had a serious problem and not simply "growing pains".
We'll probably never know what else was going on in that kid's family at the time. "Television made them do it" was an easy accusation to make in the press, overlooking the deeper more complex issues involved.
Where were you in '77?
Lord Haseo said:
ray_afraid said:
And everything else that everyone is basing their opinions on at this point...
But there's so little to go on saying you have an "opinion" is half baked at best. We don't even know what the plot of the film is. We have little tid bits but nothing more.
Still, there's nothin' wrong with saying "I like/don't like what I've seen and know so far".
ray_afraid said:
Lord Haseo said:
ray_afraid said:
And everything else that everyone is basing their opinions on at this point...
But there's so little to go on saying you have an "opinion" is half baked at best. We don't even know what the plot of the film is. We have little tid bits but nothing more.
Still, there's nothin' wrong with saying "I like/don't like what I've seen and know so far".
It's fine to say "I'm not liking what I'm seeing" but to say that the film is probably going to be bad based on the minuscule amount of information we have is foolish in my opinion.
Lord Haseo said:
I'd say worse case scenario it will be a 7/10 film.
As long as we're not taking the small amount of info we have and predicting the quality with any certainty...
CatBus said:
Lord Haseo said:
I'd say worse case scenario it will be a 7/10 film.
As long as we're not taking the small amount of info we have and predicting the quality with any certainty...
That's not due to what I've seen that's due to the fact that the prequels were terrible. For Disney to recoup the money they sunk into acquiring Star Wars they know they can't release subpar movies.
Ahh, the old "Disney must recoup its investment, therefore it will be good, QED" theory. The John Carter Corollary, as it's sometimes called, I believe. It could work.