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What do you HATE about the EU? — Page 50

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The dark nest trilogy was awful. So was the Caedus storyline. I hate Mara’s death. I hate the Abeloth and Mortis story. Though it might be interesting the Jedi and Sith joining forces, if they had done something interesting with that concept they didn’t.

I hate how they killed Anakin Solo. The Vong story is probably one of the worst things ever. But the publishing people didn’t care because NJO sold a lot of copies.

Basically for me the EU ends with the Thrawn Duology. I like Ben Skywalker, and Luke and Mara getting together but everything else i pretty much hate. Was the Bantam era perfect far from it. Still prefer it over Del Rey, Superweapon of the week and all.

Legacy of the Force and Fate of the Jedi arcs were garbage. The worst novel i’ve ever read was Crucible.

I like Cade Skywalker and Deliah Blue, i don’t like how much of a mary sue Darth Krayt was.

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JadedSkywalker said:

Basically for me the EU ends with the Thrawn Duology. I like Ben Skywalker, and Luke and Mara getting together but everything else i pretty much hate. Was the Bantam era perfect far from it. Still prefer it over Del Rey, Superweapon of the week and all.

In my opinion, ending the EU with the Hand of Thrawn Duology can be a respectable choice, but I personally don’t agree with it. While I don’t like what they did with the NJO and subsequent works, at the same time I also want to see Luke at the head of a functioning Jedi Academy, and what they did in the Jedi Academy Trilogy was not enough for me. So, I prefer to end my personal EU timeline with the Young Jedi Knights series. The plots developed in that series are pretty good, the power levels are not absurd, and the Galaxy is at peace at the end of the story, with the clear implication that the new generation of Jedi will eventually replace the old, and will help to maintain peace and justice throughout the Galaxy for several millennia.

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

Author
Time
 (Edited)

You can probably glean this from all my other posts across the site, but the most damaging parts of the prequel/EU/Filoni system involve the portrayal of the Jedi, dark Jedi, Sith, the Force, and the dark side.
“Gray Jedi”, “balance in the Force”, “using both sides of the Force”, “J’edaii” or whatever they’re called (also “Jensaarai” lol) the “light side” and “dark side” being equal and neither good or evil, Mortis BS, etc.

There’s exactly one YouTube channel (Geetsly’s) I’ve found that has a correct perspective on all of this, and every video that talks about it is swamped with the most cringey fanfic-tier comments about how both sides are wrong and UMM ACTUALLY THE JJ’EEDAIII (whose name those stupid Jedi freaks STOLE) WERE PERFECTLY BALANCED and if you went too far to one side they would banish you to the opposite moon until you got BALANCED again. Revan and Anakin and my OC Darklight Lightdarker can use the LightDark DarkLight GrayDark GrayLight LightLight DarkDark Side with no ill effects because they’re emotionally BALANCED.

This started with the prequels but EU writers and Dave Filoni made it much worse by making it canon depending on the story.

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I think the notion of gray Jedi can work – if such characters are clearly portrayed as antiheroes/antivillains with questionable morality.

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

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 (Edited)

Superweapon VII said:

I think the notion of gray Jedi can work – if such characters are clearly portrayed as antiheroes/antivillains with questionable morality.

If that’s a temporary state. Eventually you should have to pick a side, because that’s how the dark side works. Usually these characters exist for video game purposes, literally just because force lightning is cool and you want to be able to use it without being evil. That’s fine for a video game, but when people try to start using that concept to make statements about philosophy in universe or in real life, it’s ridiculous.

It certainly shouldn’t be something done on an organized scale or used as the ideal.

I don’t like any of the Legacy stuff but I think something like the Imperial Knights would be a good exception. They use the Force as part of a specific political institution, a cause that’s higher than themselves but not truly good either. Which is different from the normal “gray” concept of just using whatever you feel like because it works better for you personally, and getting away with it because you’re just better than everyone else.

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Vladius said:

Superweapon VII said:

I think the notion of gray Jedi can work – if such characters are clearly portrayed as antiheroes/antivillains with questionable morality.

If that’s a temporary state. Eventually you should have to pick a side, because that’s how the dark side works.

I mostly agree. Guess it all boils down to what picking the dark side entails. I’m not a fan of every darksider being a 2-dimensional sociopath who craves UNLIMITED POWA!!! for the sake of UNLIMITED POWA!!!

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

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 (Edited)

Vladius said:

You can probably glean this from all my other posts across the site, but the most damaging parts of the prequel/EU/Filoni system involve the portrayal of the Jedi, dark Jedi, Sith, the Force, and the dark side.
“Gray Jedi”, “balance in the Force”, “using both sides of the Force”, “J’edaii” or whatever they’re called (also “Jensaarai” lol) the “light side” and “dark side” being equal and neither good or evil, Mortis BS, etc.

There’s exactly one YouTube channel (Geetsly’s) I’ve found that has a correct perspective on all of this, and every video that talks about it is swamped with the most cringey fanfic-tier comments about how both sides are wrong and UMM ACTUALLY THE JJ’EEDAIII (whose name those stupid Jedi freaks STOLE) WERE PERFECTLY BALANCED and if you went too far to one side they would banish you to the opposite moon until you got BALANCED again. Revan and Anakin and my OC Darklight Lightdarker can use the LightDark DarkLight GrayDark GrayLight LightLight DarkDark Side with no ill effects because they’re emotionally BALANCED.

This started with the prequels but EU writers and Dave Filoni made it much worse by making it canon depending on the story.

I think that you have the wrong perception of how the EU depicted the Light Side and the Dark Side of the Force. So, I would like to make some corrections.

In the EU, the word “Grey Jedi” was not used to describe Force users who use both sides of the Force at the same time. On the contrary, it was used to describe those members of the Jedi Order who, despite not using the Dark Side, at the same time don’t always followed the rules, and don’t always listened to the will of the Council. The word was used to describe the more rebellious members of the Jedi Order, and was never associated with the Dark Side of the Force. Never. And, it’s not like the word was often used, anyway. In fact, it was only used a couple of times through the entire EU. Furthermore, even though the Je’daii Order existed, and even though they tried to create a literal balance between the Light Side and the Dark Side, it was strongly implied that their ways were wrong, precisely because you can’t balance the Dark Side with the Light Side. In fact, the Je’daii Order fell apart.

When the EU was still Cannon, the Light Side was always considered as the true balance and the true natural state of the Force, and it was always explained that the Dark Side corrupts everything. Yes, some attitudes of the Jedi Order (and some individual Jedi) were criticized, especially during the Prequel era, but the Light Side in itself was never criticized, and being overly-attached was always seen as something negative that could lead to the Dark Side, even in Luke’s Jedi Order. Hell, in the Darth Plagueis novel, it was literally explained that Anakin was created by the Force as an automatic reaction, in order to stop the Sith from corrupting the Force itself. So, it was always implied that the Sith should be destroyed, because they corrupt the Force and create unnatural stuff, indeed.

It’s the New Canon the one that introduced the concept of “equal balance between the Light Side and the Dark Side”, not the EU. The EU always depicted the Dark Side as a cancer, and in all the stories that featured Force users who tried to balance the two sides, it was always implied that they were wrong. The problem is, though, that a lot of people on the internet don’t understand this, because they don’t actually experience the EU first hand. They just learn stuff from other people telling them, and from YouTubers who understand nothing about the EU themselves. And, because of this, we have people using the word “Grey Jedi” in the wrong way, and who unironically think that the Je’daii Order was correct, when they never managed to maintain the balance they wanted to maintain, precisely because such balance doesn’t exist.

Finally, this has nothing to do with the EU, but I wanted to point it out anyway. The Mortis arc in The Clone Wars was created by Lucas, not Filoni.

Edit: When I talk about the EU, I’m not including TCW into it. Yes, the first 6 seasons of the show are technically part of both Legends and Canon, but I prefer not to include TCW into the Legends timeline when discussing it. I see the show as being part of Disney’s New Canon only. The EU version of the Clone Wars is the one that was depicted in the Clone Wars Multimedia Project, while the Canon version is the one that was depicted in TCW. I prefer to maintain them as separate.

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

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of_Kaiburr_and_Whills said:

Spartacus01 said:

Thanks for the clarification. It would seem certain YouTubers have done a great deal of damage to the fandom haven’t they?

Yes. But fortunately, in recent years, an ever-increasing number of YouTubers have been emerging, who focus exclusively on Legends content, explaining it in detail and helping to dispel many myths about the EU. One of these YouTubers is called Manda-LORE. I recommend his channel.

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Zahn used the term Dark Jedi to refer to Palpatine and Vader. I guess he had no idea what a Sith was?

I mean other than wanting The Noghri to be the Sith race, and Vader Lord of the Sith.

I mean i’m glad the Old EU Aka Legends has been left alone they haven’t gone back and given darth names to all the non Darth Sith Lords, or retroactively gave them all red lightsabers. And they didn’t edit the timeline or backstory Zahn had in his trilogy about the old Empire, the Clone Wars, they didn’t correct the ideas of the Jedi pre prequel to homogenize them with Lucas.

What i hate is the need to believe it was all one big consistent canon when it never was. KJA was full of it when he wanted to write that tome about the history of the Star Wars universe, never mind the published Chronology was way different than promised. He promised the existing EU fit the prequel. I mean i know there are fans of these things, but i understand why Disney binned it all. It didn’t fit Filoni Clone Wars either. So they said we’ll put it in the trash bin and call it Legends.

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JadedSkywalker said:

I mean i’m glad the Old EU Aka Legends has been left alone they haven’t gone back and given darth names to all the non Darth Sith Lords, or retroactively gave them all red lightsabers. And they didn’t edit the timeline or backstory Zahn had in his trilogy about the old Empire, the Clone Wars, they didn’t correct the ideas of the Jedi pre prequel to homogenize them with Lucas.

I mean, I don’t think they had any intention to do so, regardless. When they started writing the New Jedi Orders series, Lucas himself approved the idea of the Jedi being married, so they never felt the need to correct this. At best, they tried to insert Prequel references in the later novels, like the Legacy of the Force series and the Dark Nest Trilogy, but nothing more. And even when it comes to the Sith, I don’t think they had any intention of giving every Sith a Darth title and a red lightsaber. If I remember correctly, it was explained that these things were introduced by Darth Revan, so there was no need to retroactively modify the Sith from the Tales of the Jedi comics. And Lucas himself never wanted all Dark Side users to be Sith. He was the one who introduced Ventress in both TCW and the og Clone Wars, and she is not a Sith. As for the inaccuracies about the Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire in the Thrawn Trilogy, they tried to explain them in later novels, and used the Clone Wars Multimedia Project to portray events described in the Thrawn Trilogy, like the devastation of Honoghr during the Clone Wars.

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

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Time
 (Edited)

JadedSkywalker said:

I mean i’m glad the Old EU Aka Legends has been left alone they haven’t gone back and given darth names to all the non Darth Sith Lords, or retroactively gave them all red lightsabers. And they didn’t edit the timeline or backstory Zahn had in his trilogy about the old Empire, the Clone Wars, they didn’t correct the ideas of the Jedi pre prequel to homogenize them with Lucas.

Well, not in those original stories, thankfully. Didn’t prevent them from, say, homogenizing the lightsabers of all prequel-era Jedi into single shades of blue/green even when they’d been depicted with other hues beforehand, the Dark Woman being the most egregious example.

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

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Time

Reminds me of how you could create a Lightsaber in Kotor II backstory and Atris never gives it back,lol. I think i had a Viridian, a blood orange color, and even Silver. On my different playthroughs.

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Spartacus01 said:

Vladius said:

You can probably glean this from all my other posts across the site, but the most damaging parts of the prequel/EU/Filoni system involve the portrayal of the Jedi, dark Jedi, Sith, the Force, and the dark side.
“Gray Jedi”, “balance in the Force”, “using both sides of the Force”, “J’edaii” or whatever they’re called (also “Jensaarai” lol) the “light side” and “dark side” being equal and neither good or evil, Mortis BS, etc.

There’s exactly one YouTube channel (Geetsly’s) I’ve found that has a correct perspective on all of this, and every video that talks about it is swamped with the most cringey fanfic-tier comments about how both sides are wrong and UMM ACTUALLY THE JJ’EEDAIII (whose name those stupid Jedi freaks STOLE) WERE PERFECTLY BALANCED and if you went too far to one side they would banish you to the opposite moon until you got BALANCED again. Revan and Anakin and my OC Darklight Lightdarker can use the LightDark DarkLight GrayDark GrayLight LightLight DarkDark Side with no ill effects because they’re emotionally BALANCED.

This started with the prequels but EU writers and Dave Filoni made it much worse by making it canon depending on the story.

I think that you have the wrong perception of how the EU depicted the Light Side and the Dark Side of the Force. So, I would like to make some corrections.

In the EU, the word “Grey Jedi” was not used to describe Force users who use both sides of the Force at the same time. On the contrary, it was used to describe those members of the Jedi Order who, despite not using the Dark Side, at the same time don’t always followed the rules, and don’t always listened to the will of the Council. The word was used to describe the more rebellious members of the Jedi Order, and was never associated with the Dark Side of the Force. Never. And, it’s not like the word was often used, anyway. In fact, it was only used a couple of times through the entire EU. Furthermore, even though the Je’daii Order existed, and even though they tried to create a literal balance between the Light Side and the Dark Side, it was strongly implied that their ways were wrong, precisely because you can’t balance the Dark Side with the Light Side. In fact, the Je’daii Order fell apart.

When the EU was still Cannon, the Light Side was always considered as the true balance and the true natural state of the Force, and it was always explained that the Dark Side corrupts everything. Yes, some attitudes of the Jedi Order (and some individual Jedi) were criticized, especially during the Prequel era, but the Light Side in itself was never criticized, and being overly-attached was always seen as something negative that could lead to the Dark Side, even in Luke’s Jedi Order. Hell, in the Darth Plagueis novel, it was literally explained that Anakin was created by the Force as an automatic reaction, in order to stop the Sith from corrupting the Force itself. So, it was always implied that the Sith should be destroyed, because they corrupt the Force and create unnatural stuff, indeed.

It’s the New Canon the one that introduced the concept of “equal balance between the Light Side and the Dark Side”, not the EU. The EU always depicted the Dark Side as a cancer, and in all the stories that featured Force users who tried to balance the two sides, it was always implied that they were wrong. The problem is, though, that a lot of people on the internet don’t understand this, because they don’t actually experience the EU first hand. They just learn stuff from other people telling them, and from YouTubers who understand nothing about the EU themselves. And, because of this, we have people using the word “Grey Jedi” in the wrong way, and who unironically think that the Je’daii Order was correct, when they never managed to maintain the balance they wanted to maintain, precisely because such balance doesn’t exist.

Finally, this has nothing to do with the EU, but I wanted to point it out anyway. The Mortis arc in The Clone Wars was created by Lucas, not Filoni.

Edit: When I talk about the EU, I’m not including TCW into it. Yes, the first 6 seasons of the show are technically part of both Legends and Canon, but I prefer not to include TCW into the Legends timeline when discussing it. I see the show as being part of Disney’s New Canon only. The EU version of the Clone Wars is the one that was depicted in the Clone Wars Multimedia Project, while the Canon version is the one that was depicted in TCW. I prefer to maintain them as separate.

Yes, I know all of this. You’re preaching to the choir here. Unfortunately, in KOTOR they made Jolee Bindo a Gray Jedi in both senses, where he disagrees with the council because they’re prequel Jedi, but he’s also in the middle of the alignment spectrum and he has gray smoke behind him instead of blue or red. Even though he’s fully a good guy. They also added this second concept in a sourcebook for the Saga Edition RPG, the Jedi Academy Training Manual, which is a much-hated book for other reasons. Like I said, a lot of this comes from video games and got distributed throughout other things.

It doesn’t really matter where Mortis is from. If it was Lucas, then shame on Lucas. It’s the ultimate data point in creating confusion about Light Side/Dark Side = Yin/Yang and Anakin needing to be half good/half evil.

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I think the terms “light side/dark side” create confusion themselves, if we’re to understand the light side as being THE Force and the dark side as misuse/abuse of the Force. Saying the Force has “sides” implies an intrinsic dual nature.

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

Author
Time

Vladius said:

Spartacus01 said:

Vladius said:

You can probably glean this from all my other posts across the site, but the most damaging parts of the prequel/EU/Filoni system involve the portrayal of the Jedi, dark Jedi, Sith, the Force, and the dark side.
“Gray Jedi”, “balance in the Force”, “using both sides of the Force”, “J’edaii” or whatever they’re called (also “Jensaarai” lol) the “light side” and “dark side” being equal and neither good or evil, Mortis BS, etc.

There’s exactly one YouTube channel (Geetsly’s) I’ve found that has a correct perspective on all of this, and every video that talks about it is swamped with the most cringey fanfic-tier comments about how both sides are wrong and UMM ACTUALLY THE JJ’EEDAIII (whose name those stupid Jedi freaks STOLE) WERE PERFECTLY BALANCED and if you went too far to one side they would banish you to the opposite moon until you got BALANCED again. Revan and Anakin and my OC Darklight Lightdarker can use the LightDark DarkLight GrayDark GrayLight LightLight DarkDark Side with no ill effects because they’re emotionally BALANCED.

This started with the prequels but EU writers and Dave Filoni made it much worse by making it canon depending on the story.

I think that you have the wrong perception of how the EU depicted the Light Side and the Dark Side of the Force. So, I would like to make some corrections.

In the EU, the word “Grey Jedi” was not used to describe Force users who use both sides of the Force at the same time. On the contrary, it was used to describe those members of the Jedi Order who, despite not using the Dark Side, at the same time don’t always followed the rules, and don’t always listened to the will of the Council. The word was used to describe the more rebellious members of the Jedi Order, and was never associated with the Dark Side of the Force. Never. And, it’s not like the word was often used, anyway. In fact, it was only used a couple of times through the entire EU. Furthermore, even though the Je’daii Order existed, and even though they tried to create a literal balance between the Light Side and the Dark Side, it was strongly implied that their ways were wrong, precisely because you can’t balance the Dark Side with the Light Side. In fact, the Je’daii Order fell apart.

When the EU was still Cannon, the Light Side was always considered as the true balance and the true natural state of the Force, and it was always explained that the Dark Side corrupts everything. Yes, some attitudes of the Jedi Order (and some individual Jedi) were criticized, especially during the Prequel era, but the Light Side in itself was never criticized, and being overly-attached was always seen as something negative that could lead to the Dark Side, even in Luke’s Jedi Order. Hell, in the Darth Plagueis novel, it was literally explained that Anakin was created by the Force as an automatic reaction, in order to stop the Sith from corrupting the Force itself. So, it was always implied that the Sith should be destroyed, because they corrupt the Force and create unnatural stuff, indeed.

It’s the New Canon the one that introduced the concept of “equal balance between the Light Side and the Dark Side”, not the EU. The EU always depicted the Dark Side as a cancer, and in all the stories that featured Force users who tried to balance the two sides, it was always implied that they were wrong. The problem is, though, that a lot of people on the internet don’t understand this, because they don’t actually experience the EU first hand. They just learn stuff from other people telling them, and from YouTubers who understand nothing about the EU themselves. And, because of this, we have people using the word “Grey Jedi” in the wrong way, and who unironically think that the Je’daii Order was correct, when they never managed to maintain the balance they wanted to maintain, precisely because such balance doesn’t exist.

Finally, this has nothing to do with the EU, but I wanted to point it out anyway. The Mortis arc in The Clone Wars was created by Lucas, not Filoni.

Edit: When I talk about the EU, I’m not including TCW into it. Yes, the first 6 seasons of the show are technically part of both Legends and Canon, but I prefer not to include TCW into the Legends timeline when discussing it. I see the show as being part of Disney’s New Canon only. The EU version of the Clone Wars is the one that was depicted in the Clone Wars Multimedia Project, while the Canon version is the one that was depicted in TCW. I prefer to maintain them as separate.

Yes, I know all of this. You’re preaching to the choir here. Unfortunately, in KOTOR they made Jolee Bindo a Gray Jedi in both senses, where he disagrees with the council because they’re prequel Jedi, but he’s also in the middle of the alignment spectrum and he has gray smoke behind him instead of blue or red. Even though he’s fully a good guy. They also added this second concept in a sourcebook for the Saga Edition RPG, the Jedi Academy Training Manual, which is a much-hated book for other reasons. Like I said, a lot of this comes from video games and got distributed throughout other things.

It doesn’t really matter where Mortis is from. If it was Lucas, then shame on Lucas. It’s the ultimate data point in creating confusion about Light Side/Dark Side = Yin/Yang and Anakin needing to be half good/half evil.

Well, like you said, he’s a good guy. Anyway, I wasn’t trying to defend Mortis. I just wanted to point out that it wasn’t Filoni’s idea. In general, I think that Filoni takes more credit for TCW than what he should. A lot of the contradictions TCW created with the Multimedia Project and the Prequels, as well as the more controversial mystical elements of the Force, were all Lucas’ ideas.

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

Author
Time

Superweapon VII said:

I think the terms “light side/dark side” create confusion themselves, if we’re to understand the light side as being THE Force and the dark side as misuse/abuse of the Force. Saying the Force has “sides” implies an intrinsic dual nature.

I’m sure you’re aware of this but this is why the term “light side” is never actually used in the movies, original or prequel.

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I use the term “Light Side” for pure expository convenience. Lol.

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

Author
Time

Vladius said:

Superweapon VII said:

I think the terms “light side/dark side” create confusion themselves, if we’re to understand the light side as being THE Force and the dark side as misuse/abuse of the Force. Saying the Force has “sides” implies an intrinsic dual nature.

I’m sure you’re aware of this but this is why the term “light side” is never actually used in the movies, original or prequel.

The “good side” is mentioned, though. Semantics? You be the judge. I still think use of “dark side” is a misnomer if the Force isn’t meant to be analogous to Yin/Yang. Lucas could’ve found a better way to describe the opposing philosophies of the Jedi/Sith.

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

Author
Time

Superweapon VII said:

Vladius said:

Superweapon VII said:

I think the terms “light side/dark side” create confusion themselves, if we’re to understand the light side as being THE Force and the dark side as misuse/abuse of the Force. Saying the Force has “sides” implies an intrinsic dual nature.

I’m sure you’re aware of this but this is why the term “light side” is never actually used in the movies, original or prequel.

The “good side” is mentioned, though. Semantics? You be the judge. I still think use of “dark side” is a misnomer if the Force isn’t meant to be analogous to Yin/Yang. Lucas could’ve found a better way to describe the opposing philosophies of the Jedi/Sith.

I agree that he could have. That’s mostly what I’m complaining about, I just think people in the EU made it worse.

When Luke says that I think it’s more in just the moral sense like we would say it in real life, not indicating a whole new “side” to deal with. The delivery is so fast that it almost comes across as a Mark Hamill adlib.

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JadedSkywalker said:

Zahn used the term Dark Jedi to refer to Palpatine and Vader. I guess he had no idea what a Sith was?

I mean other than wanting The Noghri to be the Sith race, and Vader Lord of the Sith.

Correct. Lucy Autrey Wilson, who was the President of the EU, was Lucas’s secretary when the Original Trilogy was written, so she knew about the early drafts in which Vader is one of many “Sith” and rejected Zahn’s Noghri-as-Sith idea.

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 (Edited)

Yeah Vader was supposed to be one of many Dark Lords. As per the Lucas/Foster story conference on Splinter, and in the novelization of Star Wars. That part was never edited out of the book itself but the audio tape abridgement changed it to just Vader being the Dark Lord. in the 1990s. John Whitman did the edited abridgement.

Rather than rewriting or having a new novelization of Return of the Jedi it just became non canon. Since Obi-Wan isn’t Owen’s brother in the prequel. And it wasn’t Obi-Wan’s hubris that lead to Anakin becoming Vader. Leia remembering her mom. Yoda wasn’t his Jedi Master.

Honestly the prequel itself should be struck from canon its done too much damage to Star Wars, even if i like Phantom Menace and i like Qui-Gon.

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The Crystal Star

All his life has he looked away… to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph!

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 (Edited)

We need a sequel to The Crystal Star, with Waru returning to the GFFA with an invasion force of fellow Warus seeking to destroy the Force and replace it with the Anti-Force of their universe to facilitate colonization. Use the opportunity to introduce the greater SW Multiverse, with an entire fleet of Death Stars, Darksabers, Starkiller Bases, and Suncrushers gathered from every timeline to fight the extradimensional slabs of giant scaled meat.

(jk – or am I?)

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

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JadedSkywalker said:

Yeah Vader was supposed to be one of many Dark Lords. As per the Lucas/Foster story conference on Splinter, and in the novelization of Star Wars. That part was never edited out of the book itself but the audio tape abridgement changed it to just Vader being the Dark Lord. in the 1990s. John Whitman did the edited abridgement.

In the rough draft, there’s a bunch of “Sith Knights”, with “Prince Valorum” being the only one to be named and “Darth Vader” is just a general. In the 2nd draft, “Darth Vader” is now a Sith Knight and is a “Lord” (but none of the other Sith Knights are) and his master is “Prince Espaa Valorum”. In the 3rd draft, all the Sith are “Dark Lords” instead of “Knights” and Vader now serves the Emperor directly. In the 4th draft and revised 4th draft, Vader is the only “Sith”.