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What didn't you like about TFA? SPOILERS — Page 53

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Tyrphanax said:
People complained about all the exposition and political drama in the PT and after leaving TFA I feel like a lot of those same people were saying “I wish there was more exposition and political drama!”

Welcome to Star Wars fandom. I can’t believe how many times I’ve heard people say that they wish Kylo Ren was a calm and collected master of the Dark Side who happens to be disfigured but in the post they bash TFA for being too similar to SW.

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Voss Caltrez said:
I mean, if there are still remnants of systems or planets who resist the New Republic, why resort to kidnapping children and brainwashing them to be your soldiers?

It’s funny that the Jedi pretty much do the exact same thing.

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Well we have to remember that TFA was the first film this series, so I’m sure we’ll learn more about the First Order and why it seems to be the main counterpoint to the New Republic. I assume that since they seem to be a very legitimate force that they have a great deal of resources and have established themselves as superior to the other remnants, and thus likely have planets in their command. They wouldn’t call themselves the Galactic Empire again, because they aren’t. The Empire was Palpatine’s thing, and he failed. Plus they don’t really seem to have an Empire yet. The Republic is definitely in charge right now, but I seem to remember Hux saying something about the illegitimacy of the Republic’s rule. Also, their logo is significantly different from the Empire’s.

To conjecture a little bit more, I assume the name “First Order” was likely a moniker chosen during what was likely a civil war between different factions of the Imperial Remnant. It’s possible that the First Order came out on top due to having the Force-sensitive Kylo Ren and (probably) Snoke, as well as Sith relics (like Vader’s mask) that connected them to the Galactic Empire, which would legitimize them. Again, it’s conjecture, but I assumed that by kidnapping it was meant that it was a form of conscription, wherein potential troopers were taken from their parents at birth (like Jedi) from member worlds, less that they snuck into Republic homes and snatched kids in the middle of the night.

As far as the Rebellion/Resistance goes, I assume that the Rebellion split after Palpatine was assassinated, with part of it becoming the New Republic in order to consolidate the gains made after Endor, while Leia’s faction just rolled over into the Resistance to keep up the fight against what was left of the Empire. They’re pretty much the same people doing the same thing.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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Wow, I’ve been assuming this whole time that The First Order was reusing the Empire logo. I agree, that it can be looked at, as if The First Order has conscription at the “youngling” age, rather than mass kidnapping. Maybe it’s akin to the child-soldiers we read about. However, Finn goes on to say that he was taken from a family he will never know. If Finn’s experience is common, what kind of society does The First Order have? Generational family relationships are virtually abolished in that section of the galaxy? You grow up not having a real name, and not having any siblings or parents. Or is that only for storm troopers? So the storm troopers are these weird people in society that, due to their conscription, don’t have families, don’t have real names, and are brainwashed. Are they trained to fight their whole life? What happens when they get too old? Are the genetically modified? I think what little tidbits were raised in TFA about stormtroopers just brings about way too many questions.

I’m not trying to nitpick it, as I understand it’s merely an adventure movie for general audiences, and as I watched it, things didn’t bother me too much.

However, considering what I know about Star Wars and the production involved, it slightly took me out of the movie because the ideas of proxy wars and armies comes across, really, as just a quick-fix-excuse, to reuse the Rebels vs Empire concept, and to essentially remake A New Hope with sprinkles of Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Disney paid billions and doesn’t want to take any risks with the franchise, so they’re relying on the familiar. They’re recycling things. Nothing feels organic. I can see the reasoning behind what appears on screen, before I see a story.

For example, Finn was taken as a child, and has a change of heart occurring during his first battle. On top of that he’s revealed to be a janitor. It seems like these revelations aren’t organic to the story and feel more like an excuse to make him appear pure of heart, a goody guy, fitting into the black and white concept of good vs evil.

The Star Killer. Most adult Star Wars fans know that the hero’s original name was Anakin Starkiller. Later on The Force Unleashed used the name for their protagonist. Now it’s being used for the Death Star 3.0. I see screen writing taking place before I see a story.

Han went back to what he knew-smuggling. Does it make sense story-wise? Maybe. But it makes more sense that the producers wanted to illicit nostalgia from the audiences by having Han look and act pretty much the same way they remember him from 25 years ago. He’s made no progress. While that’s true of some people in real life, it comes across more like producer-imposed restrictions on the screen writing.

Rey getting Force-knowledge and lightsaber skills out of nowhere? Maybe the Force has chosen her to bring balance once again. Maybe she’s a Skywalker or a Kenobi. But really, the producers wanted a cool light saber battle, but they also wanted to have a Luke Skywalker-like protagonist who’s just finding out about their destiny, and is ignorant of The Force. Just have her close her eyes and play some theme music. It’s the cart leading the horse.

I just want to be clear, TFA was a fun film, and I believe that Abrams, and all those involved, were successful in what they were trying to achieve. But I don’t see myself rewatching it anytime soon.

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Finn was only a janitor when he was stationed at SKB.

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Stormtroopers don’t get old very often. The few that do probably get a nice retirement package. 😉

What happened to his son was obviously painful to Han. Remaining with Leia and the Rebellion/Resistance would only remind him of that. I doubt being a war hero leads to lucrative product endorsement deals in the SW universe.

And I disagree that Han has not evolved. He cared enough to get back involved in the fight, take Rey under his wing, and risk his own life to try to save his son. That it cost him his life is beside the point. The old Han would never have walked out onto that bridge.

Why would we get all the answers to the mystery about Rey, when there are two more movies to explore that in?

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SilverWook said:

Stormtroopers don’t get old very often. The few that do probably get a nice retirement package. 😉

What happened to his son was obviously painful to Han. Remaining with Leia and the Rebellion/Resistance would only remind him of that. I doubt being a war hero leads to lucrative product endorsement deals in the SW universe.

And I disagree that Han has not evolved. He cared enough to get back involved in the fight, take Rey under his wing, and risk his own life to try to save his son. That it cost him his life is beside the point. The old Han would never have walked out onto that bridge.

Why would we get all the answers to the mystery about Rey, when there are two more movies to explore that in?

@Stormtroopers
If they don’t get old very often, it’s almost like a death sentence. They’re not even officially at war though. Surely, part of their job description is just maintaining security, enforcing the laws.

@Han Solo
Maybe, but I would expect him to go looking for his son at any cost. With all the character progression he made in the OT, I can’t see that he would go back to being a criminal, while his son has become Hitler, or more appropriately, another Darth Vader.
About Han walking out onto the bridge, actually the old Han that WE know definetely would have done that. Remember, in ANH, he comes back in the end to help the rebels destroy the Death Star? He’s with the rebels in ESB. He’s with them again in ROTJ.

It’s more like an attempt to tap into audience nostalgia, rather than apply a natural approach to story progression. It’s giving the audience what they want, versus what they need.

@Rey
I’m sure we’ll get the answers, but it still comes off very cliche in TFA, and seems more like an excuse for a lightsaber fight in TFA, as opposed to a logical reason.

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Han in SW wouldn’t have believed in a kid who descended so far into evil. Especially enough to risk his life to save him. He may have been a scoundrel with a heart of gold but there’s nothing to indicate that he was entirely a good person at that point. The Han in ESB and ROTJ is a different story though.

Also what does the audience need?

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Lord Haseo said:

Han in SW wouldn’t have believed in a kid who descended so far into evil. Especially enough to risk his life to save him. He may have been a scoundrel with a heart of gold but there’s nothing to indicate that he was entirely a good person at that point. The Han in ESB and ROTJ is a different story though.

Also what does the audience need?

Han was also risking his life in TFA for the sake of the galaxy, at least that’s how I saw it. Remember, Snoke is using Kylo Ren’s power. Without it, that weakens The First Order, and with it, it makes them that much more dangerous.
Han risked his life to fight for the Rebels and his new found friend, Luke in ANH. If Han somehow had a son in ANH that he had raised for a while, I think it’s pretty likely that he’d also risk his life to bring him back. He risked his life for Luke in ANH, but he wouldn’t do it for his own son?

As far as what the audience needs, I don’t know exactly with the case of Star Wars. But I’d imagine it’s something to do with challenging material rather than comfortable, predictable cliches. But unfortunately the studio is working with a lot of limitations. The original cast are all senior citizens now. Harrison Ford presumably wanted his character to die. They have a lot of baggage from the negative legacy of the prequels. They spent 4 billion just acquiring the rights to the material, so taking creative risk is practically irresponsible in financial terms. I believe even Abrams explained that they made TFA similar to ANH and the OT so the audience can get familiar before they add new stuff in Ep. 8 and 9. So I get all the decisions they made for TFA. However, I can’t fully enjoy a movie if I’m rationalizing all the cliches based on what ensures Disney’s investment.

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The risks Han took in the OT were more in his favor. It was a major leap of faith to stand in front of Kylo without a blaster in his hand. Arguably the same leap Luke once took when he threw his lightsaber away in ROTJ.

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Voss Caltrez said:
Han was also risking his life in TFA for the sake of the galaxy, at least that’s how I saw it. Remember, Snoke is using Kylo Ren’s power. Without it, that weakens The First Order, and with it, it makes them that much more dangerous.

Leia didn’t say anything about The First Order being weakened by the absence of Kylo Ren in their scenes together. She just wanted her son back.

Han risked his life to fight for the Rebels and his new found friend, Luke in ANH. If Han somehow had a son in ANH that he had raised for a while, I think it’s pretty likely that he’d also risk his life to bring him back. He risked his life for Luke in ANH, but he wouldn’t do it for his own son?

Well Han came back at the very last second in an ambush attack after the main battle was over. He was hardly in any danger. Had he came in the thick of the battle I would see where you’re coming from.

As far as what the audience needs, I don’t know exactly with the case of Star Wars. But I’d imagine it’s something to do with challenging material rather than comfortable, predictable cliches.

I would prefer this but a lot of people wouldn’t as they would think it doesn’t feel like Star Wars. Hell, even with how Episode VII turned out there are still people that thought it didn’t feel like Star Wars.

But unfortunately the studio is working with a lot of limitations. The original cast are all senior citizens now. Harrison Ford presumably wanted his character to die. They have a lot of baggage from the negative legacy of the prequels. They spent 4 billion just acquiring the rights to the material, so taking creative risk is practically irresponsible in financial terms. I believe even Abrams explained that they made TFA similar to ANH and the OT so the audience can get familiar before they add new stuff in Ep. 8 and 9. So I get all the decisions they made for TFA. However, I can’t fully enjoy a movie if I’m rationalizing all the cliches based on what ensures Disney’s investment.

TFA had to be an extremely hard movie to make. Not only do you have to appease the core fans but you also have to bring in new and casual fans as well. And a lot of new fans (as in young people) aren’t going to watch STAR WARS so they made it a soft remake. But from now on I do hope for at least films with the illusion of originality like the PT but more than that I’m just hoping for good films.

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SilverWook said:

The risks Han took in the OT were more in his favor. It was a major leap of faith to stand in front of Kylo without a blaster in his hand. Arguably the same leap Luke once took when he threw his lightsaber away in ROTJ.

The leap of faith Luke took in ROTJ still makes no sense to me. Unless he started adhering to a Ghandi/Jesus-like philosophy of non-violence in that moment. He refused to finish off Darth Vader when Vader was no longer a threat. Great, he truly is a Jedi. But throwing away his one of his quickest defenses? It would have been better had it shown him turning off his lightsaber but still holding it, THEN the Emperor blasts him with lightening, and he subsequently drops it due to the violent convulsions he’s experiencing. In between the momentary pauses of the Emperor’s attacks, Luke weakly tries to summon his lightsaber again, only to be overwhelmed once again by force-lightening wracking his body with pain, all the while Darth Vader, his father, coldly looks on…

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SilverWook said:

How many times are we going to have to rehash why the Resistance exists?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proxy_wars

Sorry but I think this is an extremely terrible explanation. I would rather take the explanation of empire simply gaining upper hand in 30 years. At least it is not as silly.

Besides, that has nothing to do with my point. My point is that good guys being weaker again is a boring rehash element. No in-story explanation/excuse can change that technical fact.

真実

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For you anyway…

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imperialscum said:
Besides, that has nothing to do with my point. My point is that good guys being weaker again is a boring rehash element.

I wouldn’t say the Resistance was weaker than the First Order. The First Order is only a fraction the size of the Empire, and the Resistance was secretly supported by the New Republic. Sure the FO had a not-a-death star, but they (as far as we know) seem to only have one capital ship and not a whole lot of clout in terms of galactic control. The Resistance is still rag-taggy like the Rebellion, but I think this time the fight is more evenly matched (although this may not be true in Ep. VIII given the destruction of the Republic capitol).

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LexX said:

SilverWook said:

Find a video of a real spaceship swooping down low over a lake, and that will settle the matter. 😉

Exactly, you do that to prove me wrong.

Edit:
well here you go, and these are supersonic while Falcon is slowing down:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWGLAAYdbbc

Good enough for you?

I know I’m late to the party. And: warning, even nerdier alert coming…

Those are NOT supersonic. The Blue Angel is approaching the speed of sound and is very probably transonic (where localized airflow in small areas may occasionally go supersonic but not across the whole aircraft and therefore not generating a sonic boom). If the airplane WAS supersonic it would be entirely out in front of the shockwave, not engulfed in it.

And the F-14 is just a painting, but it depicts the phenomenon of water spray being generated by the engine thrust because it’s so low over the water. NOT a supersonic shockwave. And it’s probably pure fantasy as I’ve seen plenty of paintings like that, but no real photos. Below is a sea dart (an experimental fighter jet sea plane) just after takeoff with its engines at high power pointed right at the water…

For what it’s worth, I liked the falcon making the water spray and chocked it up to repulsor lifts like most others seem to have.

JEDIT: whoops, missed the video link until I’d already typed this. SOME of the shots in the video are supersonic. The video also correctly shows the blue angel as not supersonic. Although it says it’s “high subsonic” when really transonic would be the correct term.

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canofhumdingers said:

LexX said:

SilverWook said:

Find a video of a real spaceship swooping down low over a lake, and that will settle the matter. 😉

Exactly, you do that to prove me wrong.

Edit:
well here you go, and these are supersonic while Falcon is slowing down:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWGLAAYdbbc

Good enough for you?

I know I’m late to the party. And: warning, even nerdier alert coming…

Those are NOT supersonic. The Blue Angel is approaching the speed of sound and is very probably transonic (where localized airflow in small areas may occasionally go supersonic but not across the whole aircraft and therefore not generating a sonic boom). If the airplane WAS supersonic it would be entirely out in front of the shockwave, not engulfed in it.

And the F-14 is just a painting, but it depicts the phenomenon of water spray being generated by the engine thrust because it’s so low over the water. NOT a supersonic shockwave. And it’s probably pure fantasy as I’ve seen plenty of paintings like that, but no real photos. Below is a sea dart (an experimental fighter jet sea plane) just after takeoff with its engines at high power pointed right at the water…

For what it’s worth, I liked the falcon making the water spray and chocked it up to repulsor lifts like most others seem to have.

JEDIT: whoops, missed the video link until I’d already typed this. SOME of the shots in the video are supersonic. The video also correctly shows the blue angel as not supersonic. Although it says it’s “high subsonic” when really transonic would be the correct term.

That Sea Dart kind of reminds me of the rocket Evel Knievel tried jumping Snake River Canyon in. 😃

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imperialscum said:

TV’s Frink said:

imperialscum said:

SilverWook said:

How many times are we going to have to rehash why the Resistance exists?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proxy_wars

Sorry

NO YOU AREN’T

ALTHOUGH IN ANOTHER SENSE YOU ARE

When you have an urge to make childish off-topic posts, I recommend sending them directly to my PM in order not to disturb the thread’s on-topic discussion.

SORRY BUT IT I THINK THIS IS AN EXTREMELY TERRIBLE INTERPRETATION OF WHAT I SAID

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TV’s Frink said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Can’t we all just get a footlong (or the digital equivalent thereof)?

DONT EMBARRASS YOURSELF

Don’t flatten yourself.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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canofhumdingers said:

For what it’s worth, I liked the falcon making the water spray and chocked it up to repulsor lifts like most others seem to have.

This is it exactly. Doesn’t look like a jet flying over the water, but it does kinda look like a helicopter flying low over water, and I think it’s exactly because of the “repulsorlift” technology they mention.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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Tyrphanax said:

canofhumdingers said:

For what it’s worth, I liked the falcon making the water spray and chocked it up to repulsor lifts like most others seem to have.

This is it exactly. Doesn’t look like a jet flying over the water, but it does kinda look like a helicopter flying low over water, and I think it’s exactly because of the “repulsorlift” technology they mention.

i just stopped by to say “agreed”.