What didn't you like about TFA? SPOILERS — Page 14

Smoking Lizard said:

Lord Haseo said:

1. R2 and C3P0 happen to land somewhere conveniently on the side of the planet where Luke is

R2 piloted the escape pod to the location Leia told him to go. The escape pod was navigable, unlike the TIE fighter Poe and Finn were in in TFA

That was never established in the film. Nice rationalization though.

I don’t want to sound argumentative, but basic inference is permitted in any movie. It’s perfectly logical that the escape pod should be able to be steered. Even the life boats on the Titanic could be steered. Life rafts can be steered. Considering an escape pod on a space ship would take its passengers into deep space, it only makes sense that someone should be able to steer it.

That would be cool if it didn’t look like the escape pod was in freefall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Mo9LHYPlA

2. Then later when they’re separated they somehow conveniently meet up on the sandcrawler so they can be sold to Owen and Beru.

They didn’t conveniently “meet up.” The Jawas are scavengers. It’s what they do. All day long. Considering how slow C3PO walks and the rocky terrain, the two droids were not far apart. Not a stretch at all, considering how close the droids were to each other and considering the fact that C3PO actually called the Sandcrawler to him. Moreover this is an inconsequential convenience, like the one below. More storytelling than plot. The droids didn’t have to separate. That was just story telling.

Those aren’t the only Jawa’s on the planet that scavenge. The fact that parallel opposite directions and still end up on the SAME sandcrawler is convnient. There’s no way around that.

No way around it? I already explained it. Considering the fact the C3PO literally walks at a pace of about 2 miles per hour, he and R2 were likely at most 4 or 5 miles apart. So the Jawas are out, looking for scrap, and C3PO sees them in the distance and calls out to them. It’s the Jawas’ lucky day. After they pick up C3PO, they continue their route and, as luck would have it, they find R2, who wasn’t that far away. Damn, dude, that’s not that hard to imagine.

Still kind of a stretch that in all that time there were no other sandcrawler’s around.

Also I wouldn’t exactly call them inconsequential because those are things that push the plot forward.

No, they don’t. These two story elements do not push the plot forward at all. They are not necessary to push the plot along. Think about it: In the movie, the droids part ways, then get captured separately by the same Jawas. The other way Lucas could have done this is just not have the droids part ways and then they get caught together. The end result is the same – they’re in the same Sandcrawler. So yes, the “convenience” is inconsequential.

R2D2 and C3P0 crash on Tatooine - R2 and C3P0 split up - Both are captured by the same Jawas - C3P0 and red Astromech are sold to Owen and Beru - Red Astromech blows up because convenience and R2 is then sold in it’s place…

You know where I’m going with this. One plot convenience flows into another and by the time they end R2 has gone off to Obi-Wan and that’s where the movie really starts…in my opinion anyway

First, you did mean “wary,” right?

Yes

Second, can you explain to me how these two observations of mine somehow suggest that I did not comprehend TFA? Because I see it the other way around – that because I comprehended TFA, I was able to make these observations.

So in 30 years Luke trained ZERO new Jedis? Ren somehow killed them ALL?!

It was blatantly said that Luke had an academy and everything went to shit. Then there’s a Force Flashback which shows the aftermath of the destruction.

So Kylo Ren is Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader’s grandson? Kylo Ren, in private, “prays” to his grandfather to “show him the way” to resist the pull of the light side of the Force. Um, hello? Anakin Skywalker is probably the WORST person to ask for advice on how to resist the light side?

If Kylo Ren still idolizes Vader after what he did he either isn’t privy to the fact that Vader turned back to the light or he simply refuses to believe that such a thing would happen. How hasn’t this thought occurred to you?

I was right, that was fun!

Lord Haseo said:

That would be cool if it didn’t look like the escape pod was in freefall.

That’s the basic way space flight works. You propel yourself forward and then allow inertia to take you in the general direction you want to go. Then, when you approach your target, THEN you engage your navigation to fine tune your landing. It’s like allowing your car to coast to the stop sign instead of pressing the gas all the way to the sign and then hitting the brakes at the last second to stop. Conserves fuel. That’s obvious what the film is portraying there.

Still kind of a stretch that in all that time there were no other sandcrawler’s around.

Why? Sure, there were probably other sandcrawlers, but the Jawas logically broke up the territory into different patrol zones. “You guys search west of the dragon bones, we’ll search the east side. We’ll meet up at lunchtime.” Again, in no way does this even stretch the imagination. It’s a perfectly reasonable explanation.

R2D2 and C3P0 crash on Tatooine - R2 and C3P0 split up - Both are captured by the same Jawas - C3P0 and red Astromech are sold to Owen and Beru - Red Astromech blows up because convenience and R2 is then sold in it’s place…

If R2 and C3PO just randomly crashed so close to Obi Wan, yes, I would agree with you – that would be overly convenient. That would be a consequential convenience. But they did not randomly crash. R2 piloted the escape pod.

And the red R2 unit getting picked first and how the two droids, as explained above, wound up on the same Sandcrawler are NOT consequential, because the movie would have wound up the same way either way.

Second, can you explain to me how these two observations of mine somehow suggest that I did not comprehend TFA? Because I see it the other way around – that because I comprehended TFA, I was able to make these observations.

So in 30 years Luke trained ZERO new Jedis? Ren somehow killed them ALL?!

It was blatantly said that Luke had an academy and everything went to shit. Then there’s a Force Flashback which shows the aftermath of the destruction.

Right. That’s exactly what I said in my observation. We’re supposed to believe that Ren killed ALL of the new Jedi that Luke trained over a 30 year period?! ALL of them?! Ren couldn’t even defeat Rey, an untrained Jedi, but he killed ALL of Luke’s Jedi? I mean, Luke had 30 years! How many high school students does a high school teacher teach over 30 years? Granted, it probably it takes longer to train a new jedi than teach a high school kid, but still. Not to mention that once Luke trained his first batch of students, some of them would begin taking on students of their own. Come on. Overly convenient.

So Kylo Ren is Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader’s grandson? Kylo Ren, in private, “prays” to his grandfather to “show him the way” to resist the pull of the light side of the Force. Um, hello? Anakin Skywalker is probably the WORST person to ask for advice on how to resist the light side?

If Kylo Ren still idolizes Vader after what he did he either isn’t privy to the fact that Vader turned back to the light…

Luke most certainly would have told him!

Ren: “Uncle Luke, thanks for agreeing to train me as a Jedi. I’m excited. By the way, how did you defeat the Emperor?”

Luke: “Oh, that. Your grandfather, my father, Anakin, who was Darth Vader, saw the Emperor trying to kill me and stopped him. He grabbed him and threw him down a shaft.”

or he simply refuses to believe that such a thing would happen…

Why wouldn’t he? The Empire fell, yes? The Emperor is dead, yes? Surely there has to be an explanation. In fact, it would probably be a basic lesson in all the elementary schools in the galaxy. Every kid would learn the history of how the Empire was defeated, just like how you and I learned how the Allies defeated the Nazis. Were we there to witness it? No. Do we believe it happened? Yes.

Now…is it possible Snoke convinced Ren that Vader never turned back to the light? Sure. Is it plausible? It’s ridiculous.

How hadn’t this thought occured to you?

Of course that thought has occurred to me, but that thought is illogical for the reasons I listed above, so my mind rejects it.

Smoking Lizard said:

Lord Haseo said:

That would be cool if it didn’t look like the escape pod was in freefall.

That’s the basic way space flight works. You propel yourself forward and then allow inertia to take you in the general direction you want to go. Then, when you approach your target, THEN you engage your navigation to fine tune your landing. It’s like allowing your car to coast to the stop sign instead of pressing the gas all the way to the sign and then hitting the brakes at the last second to stop. Conserves fuel. That’s obvious what the film is portraying there.

This is all your interpretation but not even the scripts says that R2 piloted it. Also if he piloted the escape pod why not go straight to Obi-Wan?

Why? Sure, there were probably other sandcrawlers, but the Jawas logically broke up the territory into different patrol zones. “You guys search west of the dragon bones, we’ll search the east side. We’ll meet up at lunchtime.” Again, in no way does this even stretch the imagination. It’s a perfectly reasonable explanation.

I only wish this was established anywhere. I mean my mind can go there but for the sake of the argument something like that isn’t even something common sense can account for.

R2D2 and C3P0 crash on Tatooine - R2 and C3P0 split up - Both are captured by the same Jawas - C3P0 and red Astromech are sold to Owen and Beru - Red Astromech blows up because convenience and R2 is then sold in it’s place…

And the red R2 unit getting picked first and how the two droids, as explained above, wound up on the same Sandcrawler are NOT consequential, because the movie would have wound up the same way either way.

Sure, it’s a nitpick. That’s what the debate is about.

Second, can you explain to me how these two observations of mine somehow suggest that I did not comprehend TFA? Because I see it the other way around – that because I comprehended TFA, I was able to make these observations.

So in 30 years Luke trained ZERO new Jedis? Ren somehow killed them ALL?!

It was blatantly said that Luke had an academy and everything went to shit. Then there’s a Force Flashback which shows the aftermath of the destruction.

Right. That’s exactly what I said in my observation. We’re supposed to believe that Ren killed ALL of the new Jedi that Luke trained over a 30 year period?! ALL of them?!

So I guess you’ve never heard of the Knights of Ren
Ren couldn’t even defeat Rey, an untrained Jedi, but he killed ALL of Luke’s Jedi? I mean, Luke had 30 years!

How many high school students does a high school teacher teach over 30 years? Granted, it probably it takes longer to train a new jedi than teach a high school kid, but still. Not to mention that once Luke trained his first batch of students, some of them would begin taking on students of their own. Come on. Overly convenient.

A lot but we don’t know when Luke went into hiding so unless he went into hiding the week before TFA takes place I don’t see a problem. The number of Jedi that could have been feasibly trained within two decades is less than considerably less than 200.

So Kylo Ren is Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader’s grandson? Kylo Ren, in private, “prays” to his grandfather to “show him the way” to resist the pull of the light side of the Force. Um, hello? Anakin Skywalker is probably the WORST person to ask for advice on how to resist the light side?

If Kylo Ren still idolizes Vader after what he did he either isn’t privy to the fact that Vader turned back to the light…

Luke most certainly would have told him!

I don’t deny that. I couldn’t see why he would omit that.

or he simply refuses to believe that such a thing would happen…

Why wouldn’t he? The Empire fell, yes? The Emperor is dead, yes? Surely there has to be an explanation.

Luke and The Rebellion

In fact, it would probably be a basic lesson in all the elementary schools in the galaxy. Every kid would learn the history of how the Empire was defeated,

Which of course implies that he made the fact that Darth Vader turned good again public knowledge. If anything he would tell Leia and rest of the crew but no one else with the exception of his future students…

just like how you and I learned how the Allies defeated the Nazis. Were we there to witness it? No. Do we believe it happened? Yes.

I think the photos and videos of Berlin being bombed to oblivion should be sufficient to sway anyone that the Nazis lost. Darth Vader betraying Palpatine is something that happened in an enclosed space and as only witnessed by 3 people. Terrible analogy.

When Darth Vader turned to the light 2/3 of the people there died. If Luke didn’t tell anyone it would die with him.

It’s ridiculous.

Depends on the reason to be honest

SilverWook said:

Interesting idea, but I can’t recall any indication in the script or the novel that Artoo was piloting the pod.

Don’t know about the script or the novel, but this was established in the radio drama. It actually does a good job at evading some of the plot problems (another being R2 sabotaging Skippy on the sandcrawler), while possibly introducing others.

Wexter said:

SilverWook said:

Interesting idea, but I can’t recall any indication in the script or the novel that Artoo was piloting the pod.

Don’t know about the script or the novel

The Script has no mention of R2 piloting the Escape Pod. That Smoking Lizard’s rationalization.

Lord Haseo said:

Wexter said:

SilverWook said:

Interesting idea, but I can’t recall any indication in the script or the novel that Artoo was piloting the pod.

Don’t know about the script or the novel

The Script has no mention of R2 piloting the Escape Pod. That Smoking Lizard’s rationalization.

I know, I just wanted to share this bit of information to show that SL didn’t possibly make that rationalization up by himself.

The fact that we’re even having this discussion proves the point. If you want to complain about “contrived” situations in TFA, you have to admit similar contrivances in the OT…or you just aren’t being realistic because you have to bend yourself into a pretzel to deny it.

SilverWook said:

Wexter said:

SilverWook said:

Interesting idea, but I can’t recall any indication in the script or the novel that Artoo was piloting the pod.

Don’t know about the script or the novel, but this was established in the radio drama. It actually does a good job at evading some of the plot problems (another being R2 sabotaging Skippy on the sandcrawler), while possibly introducing others.

Brian Daley really thought out all the angles. 😃

Absolutely! The guy was a genius. Probably a much better writer that Lucas. On the other hand he did have seven hours to tell the story, while Lucas only had two. 😃

TV’s Frink said:

or you just aren’t being realistic because you have to bend yourself into a pretzel to deny it.

It’s fun to watch though.

Lord Haseo said:

This is all your interpretation but not even the scripts says that R2 piloted it.

Agree. It’s not in the scripts, but it is in the radio drama. So I suppose it depends on whether we’re confining the discussion to the films or to the original canon.

Even so, the explanation is plausible. It’s perfectly plausible that R2 piloted the pod. So R2 landing so close to Obi Wan is not a “eye roll” moment like the crashed TIE fighter is.

Why? Sure, there were probably other sandcrawlers, but the Jawas logically broke up the territory into different patrol zones. “You guys search west of the dragon bones, we’ll search the east side. We’ll meet up at lunchtime.” Again, in no way does this even stretch the imagination. It’s a perfectly reasonable explanation.

…something like that isn’t even something common sense can account for.

Good God…how not? Now I think you’re just being coy. It’s absolutely 100% plausible that the Jawas in a mechanized transport could easily catch both R2 and C3PO, especially considering C3PO walks at 2 miles per hour and was walking on a wide open expanse of desert. I mean, come on.

Sure, it’s a nitpick. That’s what the debate is about.

It is? I thought it was a debate over how the sort of absurd conveniences in TFA are also in ANH?

I don’t deny that. I couldn’t see why he would omit that.

Right. So clearly my critiques on these points do not indicate that I did not comprehend the film, as you claimed.

Which of course implies that he made the fact that Darth Vader turned good again public knowledge.

Again, come on. For real? Are you really suggesting that Luke would have any reason at all to not make this public? Such a grand story, such grand evidence of how good triumphed over evil, such a grand story of how his own father was redeemed. And Luke would keep that private? Puh…lease.

If anything he would tell Leia and rest of the crew but no one else with the exception of his future students…

Again, why would he keep that private?! If someone does something heroic, why keep that private?! Do we keep the stories of our Medal of Honor war heroes private? Good God, no. No. We publicize them and celebrate and honor their heroism. This is just getting silly and argumentative.

I think the photos and videos of Berlin being bombed to oblivion should be sufficient to sway anyone that the Nazis lost. Darth Vader betraying Palpatine is something that happened in an enclosed space and as only witnessed by 3 people. Terrible analogy.

It’s an absolute perfect analogy, if you just think about it. We accept history even though we weren’t there to witness it. You want a more refined analogy? Fine. You accept that Hitler committed suicide, yes? Virtually every living historian agrees that Hitler committed suicide, but the only evidence we have is the testimony of a handful of witnesses. And that’s with those witnesses lying and trying to tell the world that Hitler did not commit suicide. It wasn’t until after Germany surrendered that the Nazis came clean.

When Darth Vader turned to the light 2/3 of the people there died. If Luke didn’t tell anyone it would die with him.

Again, there is absolutely no logical reason for Luke to have kept that a secret; on the contrary, he would have told the entire galaxy the story of the triumph of good over evil.

Smoking Lizard said:

Lord Haseo said:

This is all your interpretation but not even the scripts says that R2 piloted it.

Agree. It’s not in the scripts, but it is in the radio drama. So I suppose it depends on whether we’re confining the discussion to the films or to the original canon.

Even so, the explanation is plausible. It’s perfectly plausible that R2 piloted the pod. So R2 landing so close to Obi Wan is not a “eye roll” moment like the crashed TIE fighter is.

Why? Sure, there were probably other sandcrawlers, but the Jawas logically broke up the territory into different patrol zones. “You guys search west of the dragon bones, we’ll search the east side. We’ll meet up at lunchtime.” Again, in no way does this even stretch the imagination. It’s a perfectly reasonable explanation.

…something like that isn’t even something common sense can account for.

Good God…how not? Now I think you’re just being coy. It’s absolutely 100% plausible that the Jawas in a mechanized transport could easily catch both R2 and C3PO, especially considering C3PO walks at 2 miles per hour and was walking on a wide open expanse of desert. I mean, come on.

I was actually talking about

[Smoking Lizard said:] there were probably other sandcrawlers, but the Jawas logically broke up the territory into different patrol zones

Sure, it’s a nitpick. That’s what the debate is about.

It is? I thought it was a debate over how the sort of absurd conveniences in TFA are also in ANH?

Yeah but plot conveniences don’t bother me that much because every film has them. Ironically one of my favorite films has them too.

Which of course implies that he made the fact that Darth Vader turned good again public knowledge.

Again, come on. For real? Are you really suggesting that Luke would have any reason at all to not make this public? Such a grand story, such grand evidence of how good triumphed over evil, such a grand story of how his own father was redeemed. And Luke would keep that private? Puh…lease.

It would serve no purpose to anyone but to Leia or his chosen apprentices as a shining example of how anyone can be redeemed. Not only that but it’s literally unprovable

If anything he would tell Leia and rest of the crew but no one else with the exception of his future students…

Again, why would he keep that private?! If someone does something heroic, why keep that private?! Do we keep the stories of our Medal of Honor war heroes private? Good God, no. No. We publicize them and celebrate and honor their heroism. This is just getting silly and argumentative.

Are you implying that literally ALL heroic deeds are documented? Puh…lease.

I think the photos and videos of Berlin being bombed to oblivion should be sufficient to sway anyone that the Nazis lost. Darth Vader betraying Palpatine is something that happened in an enclosed space and as only witnessed by 3 people. Terrible analogy.

It’s an absolute perfect analogy, if you just think about it. We accept history even though we weren’t there to witness it.

It’s a bad analogy because there is demonstrable evidence that the Nazis lost. However even in the SW universe there is not ONE shred of photographic or video evidence that Darth Vader betrayed Palpatine.

Virtually every living historian agrees that Hitler committed suicide, but the only evidence we have is the testimony of a handful of witnesses. And that’s with those witnesses lying and trying to tell the world that Hitler did not commit suicide. It wasn’t until after Germany surrendered that the Nazis came clean.

You literally just killed your own argument. Witnesses are unreliable. Even if Luke made it public knowledge how would you know he’s telling the truth if you live in that Universe?

Maybe I’m just too cynical but I can understand why Kylo could dismiss such a baseless claim. Now if Anakin comes in Force Spirit and tells Kylo he turned back to the light then you have a point.

Lord Haseo said:

Are you implying that literally ALL heroic deeds are documented? Puh…lease.

No. I never said that and I never implied it. But Luke most certainly would have. If you object to the word “certainly” then put it this way: It is far more likely that Luke would have told everyone his father’s story than not.

Virtually every living historian agrees that Hitler committed suicide, but the only evidence we have is the testimony of a handful of witnesses. And that’s with those witnesses lying and trying to tell the world that Hitler did not commit suicide. It wasn’t until after Germany surrendered that the Nazis came clean.

You literally just killed your own argument. Witnesses are unreliable. Even if Luke made it public knowledge how would you know he’s telling the truth if you live in that Universe?

No I did not. I proved it. You attempted this argument: “Witnesses are unreliable.”

But you believe that Hitler committed suicide, DO YOU NOT?! If you personally believe that Hitler committed suicide, think about it, your “witnesses are unreliable” claim immediately falls apart.

Instead of trying to disprove the analogy, instead, if you would, open your mind and ask yourself, “OK, why is his analogy good? Why does it make sense?” If you do that earnestly, sincerely, with a fully open mind the analogy will make sense to you. But if you dig in your heels and refuse to see it, well, of course you never will.

Maybe I’m just too cynical but I can understand why Kylo could dismiss such a baseless claim.

Baseless? Think about what you’re saying. Clearly Ren was a child once, right? Presumably a normal child. Logically, his mother Leia, his uncle Luke, his father Han, his droid C3PO, and perhaps even his father’s best friend Lando would have all told young Ren about Anakin’s redemption. It’s just common sense. So all his family members would tell him this and then you conclude that he would dismiss them as “baseless”?

“Search your feelings, Luke, you know it to be true.”

So if Ren had any doubts that Luke was telling him the truth about Anakin, all Ren had to do was search his own feelings through the Force and then he’d know that what Luke was telling him was the truth.

Anyway, it’s been a very engaging, lively discussion. Thanks!

Smoking Lizard said:

Lord Haseo said:

Are you implying that literally ALL heroic deeds are documented? Puh…lease.

No. I never said that and I never implied it.

Well seeing as how you can’t even accept Luke not telling anyone I had to ask.

Smoking Lizard said: But Luke most certainly could have.

If you object to the word “certainly” then put it this way: It is far more likely that Luke would have told everyone his father’s story than not.

If by “everyone” you mean Leia, Chewie, Han, C3P0, R2, Lando etc. then yes that’s the most likely outcome. It’s more likely than him not telling anyone or him telling everyone. We’ll just have to agree to disagree

Virtually every living historian agrees that Hitler committed suicide, but the only evidence we have is the testimony of a handful of witnesses. And that’s with those witnesses lying and trying to tell the world that Hitler did not commit suicide. It wasn’t until after Germany surrendered that the Nazis came clean.

You literally just killed your own argument. Witnesses are unreliable. Even if Luke made it public knowledge how would you know he’s telling the truth if you live in that Universe?

But you believe that Hitler committed suicide, DO YOU NOT?! If you personally believe that Hitler committed suicide, think about it, your “witnesses are unreliable” claim immediately falls apart.

I don’t know what I believe all I know is that he’s gone. It’s too muddied to even give an opinion. All I know is that if there’s no reliable witness, a mass sighting or at least photographs/video I’m going to look at any claim with incredulity

Maybe I’m just too cynical but I can understand why Kylo could dismiss such a baseless claim.

Baseless? Think about what you’re saying. Clearly Ren was a child once, right? Presumably a normal child. Logically, his mother Leia, his uncle Luke, his father Han, his droid C3PO, and perhaps even his father’s best friend Lando would have all told young Ren about Anakin’s redemption. It’s just common sense. So all his family members would tell him this and then you conclude that he would dismiss them as “baseless”?

Me and Darth Bane went to Las Vegas to buy some Skooma from Bender. That claim had as much merit as Luke/Leia/Han telling Ben that Vader redeemed himself. It’s a baseless claim because there is nothing that substantiate it. Whether it actually happened or not unless there is demonstrable evidence to prove/disprove a claim it’s baseless. End of story

“Search your feelings, Luke, you know it to be true.”
So if Ren had any doubts that Luke was telling him the truth about Anakin, all Ren had to do was search his own feelings through the Force and then he’d know that what Luke was telling him was the truth.

If that conversation took place before he turned to the Dark Side you have a huge point. But if this conversation took place after he starting descending into the depths of lunacy and starting flirting with the Dark Side I don’t think he’d be able to tell right from wrong. We don’t know how much Snoke has brainwashed him.

I found plenty in Rey for me to be emotionally invested in. Same for Finn.

shrug

TavorX said:

Smoking Lizard said:
No. I never said that and I never implied it. But Luke most certainly would have. If you object to the word “certainly” then put it this way: It is far more likely that Luke would have told everyone his father’s story than not.

Curious, but why do you think so? I ask because I’ve been thinking about this and I lean more towards him not. Luke to me is not the kind of hero to boast about his adventure and how he heroically vanquished evil/redeemed his father. I think back to the scene in ROTJ where he burns his father’s remains… alone. Why didn’t he have at least Leia, his sister, join him for the Vader bonfire?

Also, I think Luke would had been proud to say, in an alternative universe, he killed Vader if say Vader wasn’t his father or didn’t know Vader was his father. However, since Luke learned that Vader was his father, it’s something that struck him more emotionally. I mean, would you be proud to tell someone your father was some criminal? Someone whom was greatly feared and hated for unspeakable crimes against humanity?

Finally, Luke only told Leia who their father was. Luke told no one else. Leia told no one else except for the fact to Han that Luke and her are siblings. To me, this was a secret formed between Luke and Leia regarding Vader. Luke may have matured a lot over the trilogy, but doesn’t mean he’s not without flaws, and perhaps him being not open about his confrontation with his father is one of them.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.

NeverarGreat said:

TV’s Frink said:

I found plenty in Rey for me to be emotionally invested in. Same for Finn.

shrug

I didn’t mean for it to come across like I wasn’t invested in them as characters, simply that the editing tended to thwart certain important moments. I would also list the moment when Finn and Rey have just left Jakku, a point in the film that was crying out for a quiet scene for character development. Instead the ship immediately starts to fall apart and it’s another distraction for the audience.

Yeah then we get more of Finn and Rey interacting. I see nothing wrong with that; they had good chemistry…as friends of course.