Was there a scene with a Snowspeeder crashing into the cockpit of an AT-AT in ESB?

I seem to remember this scene as a child. A damaged Snowspeeder crashes right into the cockpit of an AT-AT destroying it. I'm not the only one who seems to remember this scene, yet I can't find it in any version of the film I have.

A few examples of others describing these scenes:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=282385

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=279595

http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/45926/are-rebel-pilots-trained-to-conduct-suicide-runs

I used to watch the network television versions of the films that I recorded onto a VHS, so that is my best guess as to where I saw it if this scene is even real.

Also this thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Question-about-1980-uncut-Empire/topic/7214/

A rough version was included as a deleted scene on the BluRay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQEiNJnkQAw# at 7:49

Either I'm crazy, or I just misremember this scene from hearing it in the radio drama or somewhere else...

The crashing snowspeeder scene seems like another "ANH grappling hook"-type false memory.

If that is the case then this could explain it:

a) There is a shot of a snowspeeder coming towards the AT-AT almost head-on, seen from inside the cockpit

b) There is a shot of another AT-AT's head exploding

c) There are shots of damaged speeders flying uncontrollably

d) We do not see what happens to the last AT-AT

With the fate of the last AT-AT unexplained, I would imagine it is quite possible that one's mind fills in that gap with elements that were seen.

While I am at it, here's my best guess for why some people seem to remember the grappling hook being thrown twice in ANH:

It takes a long time for Luke to get the hook/rope ready for throwing. We see him distressed and struggling with the rope, pulling it out of from his belt.

From the first shot of the hook being introduced, it takes ~23 seconds (!) until the hook is actually thrown.

One would then remember that there was SOME problem with the rope (namely the fact that it took a long time to prepare for throwing given the very bad situation Luke and Leia were in). Then someone reads the novelization or is told about it and goes: "Yea, I remember there being some problem with the hook.." and his/her mind fills the blank with the info from the novelization and what was actually seen. We see the hook being thrown so it is not a big stretch to remember it being thrown twice because most of that visual info is definitely seen.

Thanks, I'll read that thread. Memory is a weird thing. General Veers death was a deleted scene, so the idea has certainly been out there. How I filled it in to remembering it I'm not sure. 

For a long time I mis-remembered a scene in ROTJ where ships crash into the death star shield because they could not pull up in time. I watched many versions of the film looking for it and it was never there. Later I realized this was from the Radio Drama's which I used to listen to on a 7" record back in the day.

The most weird thing about this scene is that neither General Veers Death or the actual shield generator explosion are actually in the script.

Or at least not in any script that I have seen.

Some believe it to be an idea that was cut out of the film early on, which I am fine with because I don't really know the answer.

But there is also evidence that points to the shots that are of general veers as in looking at the back of his head / helmet are actually not the actor that plays general veers and these scenes were filmed after he left the production by a stand in...

It's a bit of a weird one and must of been the subject of some debate.

In the end the shield generator destruction was what made it in to the film, but much of the shots that were made for the sequence of Veers death still ended up in the film in some way shape or form.

There is also something I personally think about too is that, the suicide and deaths attributed to the shot might have been one bout of violence too far. Empire Strikes Back is fairly graphic for a PG film in the 80's although violence was very popular in the 80's. It's another possibility for it's removal.

The Idea was eventually recycled and used in ROTJ

the suicide and deaths attributed to the shot

So not only did people imagine the shot of Veers dying, but they killed themselves (and/or others) over it????

Well quite a few people die in the end result of the suicide crash... More in ROTJ I suppose.

I think I do recall general Veers death in a script now coming to think of it but it was after he speaks to Vader on the Hologram "You may start your landing" and then gets blown up by the snow speeder collision. and the whole targeting the shield generator was not present at that time.

Any way it must have been a big debate on the scenes inclusion that I think we can be sure of and ultimately It was chopped out the film.

But the deleted scene shows it with the targeting the shield generator shot so they must have changed it... Can't really remember and I am a bit tired right now. 

The reason it sounds wrong is because the tone of the voice for that line has no similarity at all to the rest of the stormtrooper dialog.  It breaks the sense of continuity and immersion, and jars you right out of the scene.

I remember the snowspeeder crashing into the AT-AT from the novelization of ESB.  The presence of such a scene certainly explains why General Veers disappears from the rest of the movie (since he is apparently dead), as well as why there is a shot of the walker's cockpit blowing up when Luke throws a grenade into it—this shot was meant to have been used for the scene that got cut.

Interesting also is that the rebel pilot named Hobbie is the one who crashed into Veers' walker, killing himself in the process.  Hobbie shows up in various post-RotJ novels, beginning with the Thrawn trilogy, since Zahn and other writers didn't know that he was supposed to have died in a deleted scene.  I seem to recall also hearing that General Rieekan was supposed to die in the battle as well, which would explain why he's nowhere to be seen in that last scene in the command center and Leia is the only one left in charge.  Well, guess who shows up in post-RotJ novels?

The story of ESB certainly is somewhat different when you take all the deleted material into account.  The entire dynamic of the relationship between the three main characters changes drastically if the part in the medical center where Luke and Leia almost make out before Han shows up is considered valid.

Being a General in a film with no further land battles it makes sense that Veers wouldn't re-appear.

The focus shifts to the fleet commanders (Admirals, Captains etc).

It would have been nice for Veers to still be alive in the ST era.

hairy_hen said:

The reason it sounds wrong is because the tone of the voice for that line has no similarity at all to the rest of the stormtrooper dialog.  It breaks the sense of continuity and immersion, and jars you right out of the scene.

I remember the snowspeeder crashing into the AT-AT from the novelization of ESB.  The presence of such a scene certainly explains why General Veers disappears from the rest of the movie (since he is apparently dead), as well as why there is a shot of the walker's cockpit blowing up when Luke throws a grenade into it—this shot was meant to have been used for the scene that got cut.

Interesting also is that the rebel pilot named Hobbie is the one who crashed into Veers' walker, killing himself in the process.  Hobbie shows up in various post-RotJ novels, beginning with the Thrawn trilogy, since Zahn and other writers didn't know that he was supposed to have died in a deleted scene.  I seem to recall also hearing that General Rieekan was supposed to die in the battle as well, which would explain why he's nowhere to be seen in that last scene in the command center and Leia is the only one left in charge.  Well, guess who shows up in post-RotJ novels?

The story of ESB certainly is somewhat different when you take all the deleted material into account.  The entire dynamic of the relationship between the three main characters changes drastically if the part in the medical center where Luke and Leia almost make out before Han shows up is considered valid.

 Yeah I think General Rieekan was meant to get crushed underneath something that fell on him.

I wonder if they ever filmed this scene. It would have added more gravitas to Leia taking up the reins of commander in his absence to co-ordinate the evacuation and putting herself in danger for others.. Although it comes across well enough that she was putting herself in danger it's not really explained that she was doing something far more noble after Rieekan snuffed it.

At the end of the day the main Story is intact with a few details missed out, that does not hurt it in any great way but when you add all the deleted material together I doubt you are talking any more than 5 minutes when edited back in. Because most deleted scenes should truly remain deleted. But there is a few that stand out from the crowd

one could argue that the probe droid sub plot of detecting the Snow speeders while they were searching for Han & Luke is a much needed scene to explain how the probe droid was led to Echo Base and that it attacked outpost Beta on the way to the shield generator and at that point the Rebels became aware of the visitor. That sounds quite a lot in terms of footage but it really is no longer than probably 60 seconds for that subplot keeping the Probe droid hibernating and the Probe Droid killing a Wampa very firmly deleted because it adds nothing to the films plot. 

The Han & Leia extended kiss on the falcon is by far the best deleted scene for ESB in my opinion.

Followed by the Repairs scene where they hear the bombs dropping.

And probably the never seen footage of Lando pulling Luke across the falcon SFX shot.

That is about as far as my list goes for deleted scenes Including Veers death also and a few never created Special effects scenes perhaps a couple of snippets here and there. It really amounts to no more than 5 minutes probably of worth while material. General Rieekans death was probably a shot of him already dead (4 seconds) then cut to K3-PO impaled. It's really not all that much missing.

John Doom said:

TESB has a very peculiar structure: for example, every scene begins with our heroes making progress, but always ends with the omen of a new danger. Because of this, I think General Veers's death was cut mostly because it would've made the Rebels look victorious, breaking the structure.

Very peculiar structure in some places I could not agree with more...

It all depends on which order the scenes were originally shot in and how they were edited afterwards.

But you are right about always presenting a new danger but also suicide crashing kamikaze style is not victorious or a battle won, it's a very desperate means and no doubt would have been portrayed as "Hobbie" Sacrificed himself to save others.

In ROTJ the original idea was portrayed as a victorious moment in a battle though. The pilot sacrificed himself to destroy the Super Star Destroyer which in turn saves lives but it was also not made to feel totally deliberate as he was spinning out of control. Hobbie Slammed the AT-AT with intent knowing he was going to die.

This is the sort of mood you could expect afterwards.

There is something else I also want to add in about the actual End result that we saw the shield generator being destroyed rather than general veers death. Although the shield generator destruction is a check mate move the base was still vulnerable to attack because every time they wanted to shoot the ion canon and let the transports escape they had to open the shields so general veers death was more of an important plot point than the shield generator destruction. But i think both the plot points are valid.