Wait... what made the Empire so evil again? — Page 2

Furthermore, the PT equivocates. For instance, murdering children in Ep. 2 is just fine and dandy because "to be angry is to be human." But then when the same guy does the exact same thing in Ep. 3, suddenly it's this revolting, horrible thing.

Or maybe I'm wrong; maybe it's only ok to murder children as long as they're tusken children. Y'know, since they look different than humans, and are kinda creepy. So...the moral message here is "racism is fun"?

no its "Revenge/vengeance is fun"

Crime of passion vs. crime of... criminality?

xhonzi said:

But I think the onus on the prequels is to better explain what makes it evil?  In the OT, you can say, "Trust us.  They're evil.  We've seen it."  But when it's a new concept to the characters in the PT, it seems like you need to show people more that it's evil.  And taxing trade routes is probably not the most effective way of doing that.

Replace Vader with Jack Bauer or James Bond and we (most of us, anyways) would be cheering his actions, right?

...meanwhile, I'll have a drink and start 'interrogating' these stewardesses.

It's from about every James Bond movie ever... but it sounds more like the Marx Brothers...

xhonzi said:

Erikstormtrooper said:

This is an interesting question. In the 1970s, people could easily see the evil in the Empire. Today, it doesn't register so much. Sad, really.

Why do you think this is?

I think too many people have the attitude that some things are for the greater good, that you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet, the end justifies the means, etc., etc.

Erikstormtrooper said:

xhonzi said:

Erikstormtrooper said:

This is an interesting question. In the 1970s, people could easily see the evil in the Empire. Today, it doesn't register so much. Sad, really.

Why do you think this is?

I think too many people have the attitude that some things are for the greater good, that you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet, the end justifies the means, etc., etc.

Why do you think that is?

Maybe.  I do want to see if he has any theories... He gave a partial answer and I wanted to encourage him to give a little more on it.

Akwat Kbrana said:

Furthermore, the PT equivocates. For instance, murdering children in Ep. 2 is just fine and dandy because "to be angry is to be human." But then when the same guy does the exact same thing in Ep. 3, suddenly it's this revolting, horrible thing.

Or maybe I'm wrong; maybe it's only ok to murder children as long as they're tusken children. Y'know, since they look different than humans, and are kinda creepy. So...the moral message here is "racism is fun"?

The whole point there was that the killing of the Tusken children wasn't okay. That's one of his major first steps into the Dark Side, and it's not portrayed as being okay in the film. Padme says what she says, but the film certainly portrays the Tusken massacre as wrong.

Exactly. Furthermore, isn't it interesting that Padme regards the slaughter of Tusken children with complete detachment and lack of concern, but in Ep. 3 when she finds out that Jedi children have been slaughtered by the same guy in the same way, she reacts with horror and utter disbelief. Why is this important? Because Padme is supposed to be one of the good guys...and, one might argue, the PT's moral compass. ("So this is how liberty dies: with thunderous applause.")

Buuuuut, while the proposed reorganization of the "republic" into a "galactic empire" is instantly judged to be evil, and butchering good little english-speaking cockney Jedi children is a horror and an obstacle most insuperable, somehow it's ok to savagely murder another group of children, just so long as their species is "insignificant." Double standard, much?

xhonzi said:

Maybe.  I do want to see if he has any theories... He gave a partial answer and I wanted to encourage him to give a little more on it.

That'll open up a can of worms filled with my crazy theories on a change in American culture - more appropriate for the off-topic forum.

Padme is indeed a racist.

Add sexist, xenophobic hiring policies to the list. When was the last time you saw a foxy Imperial babe outside the EU? And all of Palpatine's alien lackeys seem to be gone by the OT.

And don't get me started on the Empire's evil lack of adherence to basic safety in the workplace. How many troopers fall off those catwalks on a normal day aboard the Death Star, for simple lack of railings? And what about those poor guys in the superlaser shaft? They don't even get safety goggles, let alone protective clothing!

Alderaan was a planet of dangerous insurrectionists who had infiltrated the upper echelons of Imperial power, but the planet itself represented only about 1/1,000,000 of the Empire's population. To put that in perspective, scaling the Empire down to the United States, Alderaan would be about 300 people. Killing 300 of our own citizens to put down a few insurrectionists would be highly unpopular, but the scale is similar to the Waco siege (80 dead). It might bring down a few officials, but it would not make the United States "evil." I suspect the Imperial populace viewed Alderaan much the way we viewed Waco--a regrettable overexercise of Federal power, but they were a bunch of trouble-making crazies anyway, and probably deserved it.

As for Padme, she is written exactly the way she is supposed to be: a super-elite and elitist bimbo, who covers her love of power and all its trappings by giving lip to "liberty." She reigned over a deeply segregated society, a human elite literally towering over an amphibian race confined to underwater ghettoes. This is the world that propelled Palpatine into the Senate; is it any surprise the Empire was apparently segregated and human-heavy at the top? (Nor did Padme's daughter escape this poisonous atmosphere when she was adopted into the blood royal of Alderaan. Leia's disgust when confronted by low caste aliens is so overpowering she cannot help but use a slur against the Wookiee who rescued her from execution on the Death Star!)