I like the ideas. Granted, it does give Kylo less of a reason to reforge his mask which Ascendant fixes pretty well. Then again, I never had much of an issue with that to begin with. I’d be curious to see what else you can come up with here.
Sure, Ascendant gives us flashbacks to ‘a creature in a mask’, but I don’t think that is a reason for Kylo to reforge it. If anything, I’d think Kylo would want to connect with Rey without the mask to interfere, so that Rey would view him as more of a person.
I think the most coherent reason for the reforging (other than rule of cool) is simply that he’s ‘serving another master’ but with an ulterior motive, so the helmet would mask his expressions while also visually signifying that he’s taking the role of Vader in Palpatine’s orbit. I don’t think we can get a deeper character reason, so to go from meeting Palpatine to the mask reforging would strengthen that concept.
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Minor break from the big picture stuff, but what about replacing Finn’s teasing of Poe about being a spice runner. Muting the lines would just be awkward and cutting altogether would hurt the pacing. Something along the lines of “From spice runner to Dreadnought slayer? Is there nothing you can’t do?”
I like the ideas. Granted, it does give Kylo less of a reason to reforge his mask which Ascendant fixes pretty well. Then again, I never had much of an issue with that to begin with. I’d be curious to see what else you can come up with here.
Sure, Ascendant gives us flashbacks to ‘a creature in a mask’, but I don’t think that is a reason for Kylo to reforge it. If anything, I’d think Kylo would want to connect with Rey without the mask to interfere, so that Rey would view him as more of a person.
I think the most coherent reason for the reforging (other than rule of cool) is simply that he’s ‘serving another master’ but with an ulterior motive, so the helmet would mask his expressions while also visually signifying that he’s taking the role of Vader in Palpatine’s orbit. I don’t think we can get a deeper character reason, so to go from meeting Palpatine to the mask reforging would strengthen that concept.
Ascendent already does give a motivation with the Knights of Ren voices. Wearing the mask could partly be due to obligation toward his Knights. Perhaps the emergence of Palpatine, or this new mission to hunt down Rey, is sort of why he is doing it now and not sooner. But it could be a combo of the Knights of Ren, and like you said, signifying his role in Palpatine’s orbit, as you said.
Honestly, what the Knights are exactly are kept pretty vague, but I feel like you could elaborate here and there a little.
For example, when the helmet is being reforged, you can have one of the Knights say, “May our bond never again be broken” (I think broken would sound better than shattered, which I think is currently the word used in the Ascendent version). And then, as he is putting it on, the Knights could chant something like, “Long live the Sith”. Which I think would demonstrate that although they are loyal to Kylo, they worship the Sith. So when Palpatine reappeared, they are also loyal to him and would explain why the Knights fight Kylo on Exegol.
I’m pretty sure a new line does exist here in Ascendant, but when the Knights of Ren pass the stormtroopers in the hallway, I think it could be nice for the second stormtrooper could say, “Jedi hunters”, just to clarify what exactly their job description is. Sort of like the Imperial officer in Empire Strikes Back saying, “Bounty hunters. We don’t need that scum” to clarify to the audience who these guys are exactly.
Looking retrospectively back at the other movies, I think it would be nice if there could be some way to hint at Snoke’s affiliation with the Sith as well. Whether it be Snoke stating his goal to bring back the Sith, and/or someone else describing Snoke as a Sith cultist himself. It would make sense to do so, since he already walks and talks like a Sith. And, after Kylo kills him, Kylo explicitly says it is time for both the Jedi AND the Sith to die, which I don’t think Kylo would’ve said if Snoke did not affiliate himself with the Sith.
I think the question regarding Snoke is, if he was so powerful in the Force, why didn’t he proclaim himself as a Sith? Of course we know he was made by Palpatine, but what did Snoke tell Kylo about himself? At the very least, it did appear that Snoke saw Kylo as the heir to the Sith, or at least that is what he told Kylo. It would be nice if there was even a little clarification for this in the first two movies.
Reforging the mask holds the same meaning as repairing the Skywalker saber. It’s about rebuilding oneself after having one’s worldview shattered.
True, but with what footage we have available we’d still have to use Rey getting close to killing Palpatine for his essence transfer. Maybe in the hologram scene Palpatine could say that he’s sensed Kylo Ren’s death, which would explain why he’s suddenly okay with the essence transfer plan instead of hoping Ben follows Rey to Exegol. And then when Ben suddenly shows up he’s like: “Oh, I thought you were supposed to be dead. Too bad your coming together is gonna be your undoing.”
What I was saying was to drop the essence transfer entirely but keep Palpatine taunting Rey to kill him, with some additional context to indicate that killing him would make her some sort of dark empress. Not the most clearly thought out idea, I’ll admit.
Do not DM me for edits. Whatever you’re looking for I don’t have it.
Another day, another idea for the duel and hangar scenes:
“Rey….wherever you are…You are hard to find.
“You are hard to get rid of.”
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it…I needed you to see it…who you are. I know the rest of your story. Rey…”
“You’re lying.”
“You were right…your parents were no one. Junk traders from the outer rim.”
“Don’t!”
“Your parents had no power in the Force. And neither did you.”
“I don’t want this!”
“Yet they were killed…”
“No!”
“…by the Emperor’s assassins.”
(Rey sees her abandonment.)
“Come back! Nooo!”
“They took your parents ship…and left their bodies to rot.”
“Stop talking.”
(Cutaway to heroes capture)
“You never found their bodies, so you convinced yourself that they were still alive…and would return someday. But deep down, you always knew the truth. And the truth…the guilt…has eaten away at you your entire life.”
“So that’s where you are. You know why the Emperor wanted you dead. I’ll come tell you.”
…
“Why did the Emperor come for me? Why did he want to kill a child? Tell me.”
“Because a six year old girl had told everyone she met that she was a Skywalker. A child’s dream…to be a hero like Luke.”
“You blame yourself for your parent’s death, but it was Palpatine who killed them. There’s no need to blame yourself any longer. Just reach out and take your vengeance. We can kill him, Rey…together.”
(Removes his helmet)
“You know what you need to do. You know.”
“I know.”
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
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Hmmm. I see what you’re trying to do there - giving more reason for the ending scene. But the revelation isn’t particularly shocking for Rey to hear, which is how she reacts in the hangar scene. Plus, most people wouldn’t believe her so it really wouldn’t spead around enough to reach Palps. And even if it did reach him, why would he actually believe that it was true despite so much evidence to the contrary (Luke is committed to being a Jedi, Han and Leia only have one son).
EDIT: I’m also not sure why pushing her in the desert was supposed to hint all this to her. Clearly that line is referencing some sort of innate darkness about her.
Yeah, it’s not super well developed. Moving to fill one thematic or plot related issue just exposes two more.
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Obviously, we need to make a list of thematic & plot issues and see which ones are worth prioritizing (obviously, prioritizing themes over plot, but still).
Looking over old post-TLJ fan theories, one idea I saw floated is that before Rey was born, her parents scavenged some Sith artifacts on Jakku, not knowing how much they were worth. Maybe they sold the Sith blade, and Ochi tracked it back to them. If you want to add onto that, maybe Rey’s parents were loyal Imperial Officers, but were forced into poverty after the battle of Jakku with no way off the planet.
Scavenging the Sith blade is similar to an idea I suggested some posts back, but the issue is that the plot now rests on this blade which was created just for this film. It doesn’t feel particularly earned as a revelation.
Making that list of plot and theme issues, here are the major ones as I see it:
1: Rey needs some inner darkness, whether that be from early life experience or from an ‘evil’ bloodline.
2: Rey needs a reason to have been left on Jakku, living next to several plot-important ships/places.
3: Rey needs a reason that choosing the Skywalker family name is important to her.
4: There should be a reason that Palpatine in particular is a fitting nemesis for Rey.
5: There should be a reason why a Jedi Hunter would wish to find Rey as a child.
Considering all of these, maybe the best idea would be to return to a pseudo ‘Rey Palpatine’ backstory. The big problem with this is that it directly conflicts with the idea that Rey’s parents were ‘nobody’, and it also creates a massive plot convenience if Rey just happens to wind up on the planet where the plot of TFA begins.
Here’s a concept:
After the Civil War, the Sith cult attempts to resurrect their fallen Emperor. They have his genetic material, so they use his DNA to grow almost identical clones of the Emperor within surrogate mothers across the galaxy.
While this experiment is ongoing, the cultists manage to revive the spirit of their Emperor within the body of a rotting clone, and their revived Emperor gives the order to have these experiments destroyed, lest they grow up to threaten him.
However, Rey’s parents have come to love this child and want her to be raised far from the influence of the Sith. They discover that churches dedicated to Luke Skywalker and the Jedi are arising on planets across the galaxy, with one allegedly located on Jakku. They make it to Jakku but Palpatine’s Jedi hunter meets them there.
Rey’s parents sell Rey to Unkar Plutt in the hopes that he will take Rey to this hidden enclave, and then they face Ochi and are killed defying the will of the Emperor.
…
In this concept, the dark revelation is that Rey is not just related to Palpatine, but in a very real sense she is Palpatine, or at least a female version of him. This sidesteps the issue that we’ve already had the plot about the offspring of an evil guy choosing not to be evil. Furthermore, anyone who knows the lore concerning cloned Force sensitives will know that madness is a common fate, so this is another problem potentially confronting Rey.
Rey’s parents here remain nobodies, and since there could have been thousands or millions of surrogate mother experiments, Rey isn’t terribly special as a person either. More critically, it isn’t a huge coincidence that Rey happens to live near the Church of the Force on Jakku, since that was the destination of her parents.
Lastly, we can keep almost everything concerning the ‘Rey Palpatine’ cut in place, including the flashbacks to her parents.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
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I actually really like that. Even more than what we got, actually. It would line up with all future projects wherein Rey is referred to as a Palpatine, while at the same time her “parents” really are nobodies. It matches with her TLJ vision in the cave, too. She doesn’t really have any parents; she’s just Rey.
It also lines up with the books better than the movie does. In canon, Rey’s dad is a strandcast, a genetically modified clone of Palpatine. But that just makes it confusing to refer to her as Palpy’s granddaughter because, biologically speaking, she’s actually his daughter. But with this idea, instead of her dad being the strandcast, SHE is the strandcast. I suppose you wouldn’t mind using that word to make it clear she’s not a 100% clone, but rather a 95-99% clone? It would make my nerd brain happy.
I was playing Starfield when it first came out a few months ago and there’s a storyline similar to this. There’s a girl named Hadrian who is actually a clone of her “father”, a facist military leader called Vae Victus. She is the only living “clone” of his after the rest died off. She thinks he was killed, but it turns out he was secretly kept alive by his followers. Sound familiar?
EDIT: Omg, we could also finally confirm that Snoke is a strandcast in the movie, as well. Maybe he was one of the only other surrogate children of Palpatine that survived? And Rey was super lucky to not be born all deformed like that.
Here’s what I’m thinking so far:
“Rey….wherever you are…You are hard to find.
“You are hard to get rid of.”
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it…I needed you to see it…who you are. I know the rest of your story, Rey…"
“You’re lying.”
“You were right… your parents were no one. That’s what made them such ideal candidates.”
“Don’t!”
“Your mother wasn’t the only one selected to birth a child like you…”
“I don’t want this!”
“You endangered your parents.”
“No!”
“Remember them… see them…”
(Same flashback as in original film… perhaps a few flashes of Lor San Tekka?)
“They paid for your protection… in more than one way…”
“Stop talking.”
(Cutaway to heroes capture)
“Palpatine sent assassins to track down children like you. He found your parents. But they wouldn’t say where you were. So he gave the order.”
(Vision of Rey’s parents getting killed.)
“So that’s where you are. You know why the Emperor’s always wanted you dead? I’ll come tell you.”
…
“Why did the Emperor come for me? Why did he want to kill a child? Tell me.”
“Because he grew to fear what his followers had spawned. Those children had his power. You… are his clone.”
“Snoke was the only genetic strand-cast Palpatine spared. You’re his loose end. What he doesn’t know, is Snoke unwittingly sparked a dyad in the Force between us, Rey. Two that are one. We’ll kill him. Together."
(Removes his helmet)
“You know what you need to do. You know.”
“I know.”
I like it! Well, I’m still not sold on the Dyad, since there are already a lot of terms being thrown around here like ‘genetic strand-cast’ that may confuse a general viewer. I think it’s enough for Kylo to say something to the effect that Rey was originally meant to take the Sith throne before Palpatine’s spirit returned in the rotting clone body, so she’s fulfilling her destiny by killing him.
And Snoke being one of the first experiments is also a good idea! Maybe he was being tinkered on by Palpatine before he died as a backup plan, and when the Empire fell Snoke took over the First Order while the Sith cult began work on bringing back the Emperor with the surrogate clones.
Maybe the biggest benefit of this whole idea is that it circles back around to address the most inexplicable aspect of the film…“Somehow, Palpatine returned.” Now Rey’s backstory serves as a direct answer to the question of just what sort of Sith science was involved in bringing Palpatine back to life, connecting TROS with the rest of the trilogy.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
While I agree, I’m mostly thinking ahead to the end of the movie. As it stands, there needs to be at least some reason why Palpatine is able to fully restore himself. If Palpatine can just suck off (poorly worded, I know) anybody he wants to then he would have returned to full strength much sooner. It’s only the dyad that is able to grant him the good life juice.
And yes, I love the whole twisted science aspect of all this. It slots Rey as a character right in with two of the big bads of the trilogy. Palpatine’s baby purge also kinda reminds me of King Herod killing all the baby boys to stop Jesus. Fitting analogy for the season right now, I suppose.
Yes, the fact that they are a Dyad allows him to regain his power, but he already says it without needing that term:
“The life Force of your bond…a Dyad in the Force…a power like life itself.”
it could easily be rewritten as:
“The life Force of your bond…a power like life itself.”
In fact, reviewing that shot, it looks like Palpatine’s mouth doesn’t move correctly to form the words ‘a Dyad in the Force’. It looks like there was something a bit shorter there before, but the Dyad line was added later. Something like:
“The life Force of your bond…incredible…a power like life itself.”
Then just cut the ‘unseen for generations’ line, since it’s said offscreen. I genuinely think that cutting those two instances would streamline the whole plot.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
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Yeah… maybe.
One other thing I just realized is that they clearly cast Rey’s mom to look similar to her. Which is problematic in the case that she is genetically unrelated to her. So we would probably need to deep fake her with some other actress.
Hmm, maybe it would be best to cut those flashback shots after all. It’s not like they are essential for conveying information, they’re really just reinforcing what we are already told in the scene.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
I haven’t tried editing around those yet, but doesn’t Rey start making that squinty face right before they happen? Like she’s starting to see something? I was also under the impression that trying to remove these would make things way too disjointed and fast-paced there.
It’s possible, I haven’t edited these sequences either. I think the only way we’ll know is by getting into an edit.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
I do like this new idea. It stays close enough to the original so it can be implemented without too many tweaks, but it does connect the dots of the Trilogy in a very nice way.
I would be excited to watch this version!
Here’s a v2 of the dialog:
“Rey….wherever you are…You are hard to find.”
“You are hard to get rid of.”
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it…I needed you to see it…who you are. I know the rest of your story, Rey…"
“You’re lying.”
“You were right… your parents were no one. The most ideal candidates for your birth.”
“Don’t!”
“Your mother wasn’t the only one selected to deliver a child like you…”
“I don’t want this!”
“You endangered your parents.”
“No!”
“Remember them… see them…”
(Same flashback as in original film with her mom’s face swapped for a different actress - preferably a different ethnicity)
“They paid for your protection… in more than one way…”
“Stop talking.”
(Cutaway to heroes capture)
“Palpatine sent assassins to track down children like you. He found your parents. But they wouldn’t say where you were. So he gave the order.”
(Vision of Rey’s parents getting killed - face swapped again)
“So that’s where you are. You know why the Emperor’s always wanted you dead? I’ll come tell you.”
…
“Why did the Emperor come for me? Why did he want to kill a child? Tell me.”
“Because he grew to fear what his followers had spawned. Those children had his power. You… are his clone.”
“Snoke was the only genetic strand-cast spared from his purge. You have a greater claim to the Sith throne than Palpatine’s current shell. But we can still let old things die. Together. And take his fleet for ourselves."
(Removes his helmet)
“You know what you need to do. You know.”
“I know.”
I like this dialogue, since it fills most of the holes in the movie and gives Rey’s character more of an edge. My only qualm is that it doesn’t explicitly address why Palpatine’s followers stopped the process.
Maybe I can re-write that to make it more clear. The current explanation is “because he grew to fear what his followers had spawned”. So basically he realized he was creating clones with the same potential as him in life, except he is currently a ghost trapped in a dying clone. That isn’t going to end well for Palpatine prime - one of the others would take over. Perhaps he didn’t trust that his followers wouldn’t just betray him and begin following one of the other clones.
EDIT: Maybe jealousy is a better way to convey this idea over fear? “Because he grew jealous of what his followers had spawned. Those children had his power.”
What about realising that he couldn’t inhabit these clones, and so was only making opponents? He could only inhabit the shitty “true” one he’s in?
“Only one Clone body was viable, but rotten/weak. A failed clone (Snoke) he took as apprentice/puppet. The rest were potential opponents to his rule.”
That can’t be the case because he threatens Kylo with the possibility of possessing him and of course is clearly intent on possessing Rey at the end of the movie.
In all likelihood Snoke wasn’t deformed at one point but he degraded due to Palpy’s possession. So he killed all of the kids that would stand to threaten him before realizing Snoke was also imperfect, but necessary until he could get Kylo to him.
EDIT: I think I’ve spotted the difference here. Snoke and Palpy’s current clone were created at the size they are and possibly both without a soul for easier possession. Whereas these children clones have to grow and have their own free will in the process. It works and makes sense.
“Rey….wherever you are…You are hard to find.
“You are hard to get rid of.”
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it…I needed you to see it…who you are. Darkness is in your blood. Rey…”
“You’re lying.”
“You were right…your parents were no one. Two out of thousands used by the Sith cult.”
“Don’t!”
“The woman you call your mother…she was merely a host…”
“I don’t want this!”
“…for a dark experiment…”
“No!”
“But they grew to love you anyway.”
(Rey sees the vision of her parents and her abandonment.)
“My Love…be brave.”
“You’ll be safe here…I promise.”
“Come back! Nooo!”
“They paid for your protection…in more than one way.”
“Stop talking.”
“Rey…I know what happened to them.”
(Cutaway to heroes capture)
“Your parents had traveled to Jakku, chasing rumors of a hidden village…allies of Luke Skywalker who could keep you safe. But they couldn’t escape the long shadow of the Sith.”
(Rey sees her parents get killed.)
“So that’s where you are.”
“You know why the Emperor wanted you dead. I’ll come tell you.”
…
“Why did the Emperor come for me? Why did he want to kill a child? Tell me.”
“Because he saw what you would become. You don’t just have power. You have his power. You’re his clone.”
“Snoke was a twisted experiment in Palpatine’s quest to conquer death…and so were you. When he was reborn he destroyed his dark children one by one. Now only you remain.”
“We can kill him, Rey…together.”
(Removes his helmet)
“You know what you need to do. You know.”
“I know.”
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)