Unusual Sequel Trilogy Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 104

EddieDean said:

Lovely cuts and choices, I think the whole really works - but I don’t feel that the healing VFX is necessary beyond what was already there. I don’t think it necessarily adds the ‘Leia is involved’ angle you’re trying to emphasise (though I do think it’s clear enough). A Leia hand, or other ‘forcey’ SFX might be best.

ditto

I really think it would prove beneficial to use the shot of Leia laying down during the healing process. Instead of focusing your VFX efforts on the ghostly effect, you might be able to remove the medallion? Even if you can’t, I suppose it really isn’t the end of the world for it to be there. Most casual fans have no idea what it even is. And for the people that do know what it is, perhaps Leia is using it is a way to focus her energy transfer on Ben? I’m sure his residual energy is still all over it since Han probably let him have it as a kid.

Also, just wondering, what about Han’s yell was odd? I’m pretty sure somebody else on the forum has used it in the exact place before (I copied the idea from them).

As for Maz’s line, we can be even clearer. Maz is in tune with the Force, so she should know what’s going on. “To heal her son now, will take all the strength she has left.” You still have the double meaning to “heal”.

This whole thing is a fantastically creative idea that fixes so many issues at once. I’d love to see it integrated into Ascendant if it can be sold believably in editing (I can’t view the Mega clips at the moment, so that’s not a judgement on any current efforts).

Much agreed. The idea that Rey feels responsible for the death of Leia is pretty astonishing - way more impactful than the Chewbacca fakeout. I’d have to see if there is a way to implement such an AI line later on. “Leia died because of me”. I also think Leia’s last energy being put into Ben physically rather than just so he can see her one last time is much better. I was thinking about it last night, and it actually also explains why her body doesn’t vanish until Ben dies.

Granted, it wouldn’t explain why Ben’s body vanishes despite putting all of his energy into Rey. But maybe that can be handwaved with the whole dyad thing. Plus, it technically means that the life-force of Leia is living on in Rey along with Ben.

I suppose my thinking is that it needs to use recognizable audio from TFA. Rey says that he can’t stop seeing what he did to his father, so anything that instantly establishes that link should work. And it needs to be startling enough to stop Kylo mid-swing, anyways.

I might be able to access the computer a bit today for the lines, we’ll see.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Rey says [earlier in the movie] that he can’t stop seeing what he did to his father, so anything that instantly establishes that link should work. And it needs to be startling enough to stop Kylo mid-swing, anyways.

Just realized I said our golden ticket right here. Try putting flashes of Kylo killing Han after he raises his lightsaber. Try to replicate the style of the visions we created for the beginning of Ascendant.

You can put the softer “Ben, come home” when he caresses his face before falling.

Eddie, I was actually thinking of Leia telling Rey what to do. Here is how that line might sound:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DiyTjWsPY6HjbypGBt8kU0KL0gPIjRAB/view?usp=sharing

I see where you’re getting at with visions being the easy way out. But I think in this case it’s 100% warranted. As I said before, Rey says that he can’t stop seeing what he did to his father on Pasaana. He’s about to make the same mistake he made with Han by striking down Rey. By showing Han’s death before he does it, it’s like Kylo’s subconscious telling him: “Hey, no, we’ve done this before, we don’t like how it ended.”

We also make his later vision of Han not come completely out of nowhere. But if you want this vision to also not come out of nowhere, then we’d need to see flashes of Han’s death even sooner in the movie.

As for why he goes to Vader’s mask, I think it’s simply because Palpatine is a notorious liar. He wants to make sure that Vader really never was speaking to him and Palps isn’t taking credit for something real. Granted, I do see the appeal in Palpatine saying something like “I am the only voice you will ever hear in your head” earlier on and then Han’s voice is what awakens him.

Awesome! I guess now the concern is whether Rey would actually be willing to sacrifice Leia for Ben. Now, obviously it’s what Leia wants her to do, but Rey should really be putting up some resistance to such a simple command. So maybe instead of “Together, Rey” we could do “You must take my strength, Rey.” Just to have her be more firm about it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1trR7kJBrGgQlINqKPUuq9MFR9gAKc3zB/view?usp=sharing

I’ll see if I can’t grab some Maz lines for a voice clone. Do you think I should only use TROS as a source or should I tap into TFA? The problem is that TROS doesn’t give her many lines.

That’s true. I hope you still consider the Han death flashback, though!

And to answer your last point, it’s mostly due to cadence and the varying volume/EQ of the audio across different sources and even scenes.

EDIT: Before I forget, the only place where Rey can comment on her feeling responsible for Leia’s death is right before she says “I’m never leaving this place, I’m doing what you did.” It would have to replace her comment about her vision on the dark throne. Just spit-balling some ideas here: “Leia is dead because of my moment of weakness. It’s not safe to be by me.” or “If I hadn’t lashed out at Ren Leia would still be alive. It’s my fate to cause pain.” I actually think the first one lines up perfectly - it was a moment of weakness that caused Luke to go to Ahch-To originally, as well.

Alright I’ve sent off the Maz audio sources to RogueLeader for background noise removal. That’s the most we can do in that regard for now. Heal vs. save is an interesting conversation, though. On the one hand, Kylo is definitely plagued by darkness, rather than have a dark heart. He’s definitely a broken individual who needs to be repaired. But “save” puts more of the blame on external factors rather than himself - like it’s Palpatine who was the reason for his fall (which isn’t far from the truth).

He wouldn’t actually be blue, would he? Lmao

In all seriousness though it’s not a bad idea.

Sorry in advance but I just buzzed through the comments to chime in on my initial thoughts after watching some of the preview.

My immediately thought was also to have Han from TFA yelling “Ben!”. A part of me always like the idea of Ben stopping himself from killing Rey, rather than Leia kind of interrupting him. Yeah, in this case Han is interrupting him, but it isn’t actually Han: It’s Ben. Ben’s conscience. And like JarJar mentioned, it’s his conscious being like, “Don’t make the same mistake.”

Also, I feel like there needs to be a shot between Ben stopping himself, and when he turns around. It just feels off continuity-wise putting those two shots back to back. I wonder if you could potentially add his saber to the shot where it should be, and continue him lowering it down as it is in the first shot. Or, show/hear it deactivate, since the next time we see his saber, it is deactivated.

My initial thought was to cut to just one shot from TFA, like a shot of Han on the catwalk, OR, the shot of Kylo walking on the catwalk and hear Han’s voice and suddenly stops (as if he is mentally in that moment again). OR, the shot of Han gently brushing his cheek after he stabs him. I know it isn’t typical filmmaking language for Star Wars to do that, just flashing back to a memory. But, TLJ does it, and the Han/Ben scene in TROS is also atypical for Star Wars visual language. So these aren’t hard or fast rules.

Alternatively, perhaps you could reuse that shot of Kylo emerging from that giant wave. But slow it down to match the speed of Kylo’s head turn shot, and adjust it so you don’t see Kylo or his saber emerging from the shot, just hint of a shadow perhaps. Just feels like there needs to be a shot between those two shots of Kylo.

My initial thought for the Maz line was in agreement with you, “To save her son-“, feels clear but also not too exposition-y.

It seems like you guys arrived at the same conclusion, but I was also going to say that we could cut to that silhouette shot of Leia to give her a new line to say to Rey.

I don’t know if you have looked on sherlockpotter’s page at all for his TROS: Untold edit, but he reached a similar conclusion with Leia channeling her life Force through Rey to save Ben. I thought his line choices for Leia sounded good, but I feel like you’ve come to a happy medium between Leia intervening, but not being the factor that interrupts him.

After initially watching your first test, I kind of imagined the line being something simple, like, “Help me, Rey.” (ala, “Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi”). For his version, Sherlock used the line, “We can still save him” which I thought was a natural way to imply what is happening. Feels right, not fan-edity. The only other line I could imagine you could use make it even clearer would be something like, “Let it flow through you”, or, “Let it flow. From me. To you.” Or even something like, “We can still save him. From me. To you.” Idk, some different ideas. There is definitely a risk of saying too much, but I think you can stroke a fine balance. I think you could still utilize all of the Leia shots (maybe not the medallion one? Feels like it implies she was behind the Han vision almost). Show her laying down, maybe as the “healing” is occurring. I also don’t think you need any glowing effect happening at the wound. Less might be more here.

Anyway, I really dig this. It just makes more sense that Kylo getting stabbed is the thing that Leia senses, even if you argue that she is sensing it is about to happen which is fine too or whatever I guess. Just think it hits better when it is: Stab. Leia stunned. Speaking of which, it would be a nice touch if we could hear Leia gasp, or hear her breath get heavy in the moment she senses it. A moment of breathtaking shock.

And I also love how this allows the factor stopping Kylo from killing Rey being his own conscience, rather than Leia stopping him.

I’ll get on those audio files when I can JarJar. Also if anyone hasn’t checked out SherlockPotter’s edit thread go check it out!

NeverarGreat said:

All potentially good ideas, y’all.

JEDIT: That’s a nice line from Leia! I may stick that in and see how it works 😃

I’ve just personally tried to distance myself from using visions as a way to solve problems in an edit since the vision-heavy early days of Starlight, since to me it now feels somewhat artificial, like the hand of the editor is reaching through the screen to tell the viewer what to think and feel rather than allowing the story to unfold naturally. Often, when it feels like we need a vision to explain something, that may mean that this thing should have been established earlier but it wasn’t. An ounce of prevention and all of that.

So it feels like Han’s voice comes out of nowhere in this fight, and it does. Can we foreshadow this earlier in the film?

Possibly. We have already established that Palpatine is ‘every voice’ inside Ben’s head. Later he communes with Vader’s helmet and Palpatine again speaks to him, urging him to kill Rey.

But since Kylo has already been told that Palpatine is every voice in his head, why would he bother trying to commune with the helmet again? It could be that he desperately wants to hear a voice from his family, only for Palpatine to say something like “Vader cannot help you. From the beginning, your only teacher was me.”

Or even, what if he put his hand on the mask and had no visions, but rather heard only Palpatine’s mocking laughter? That way he reforges the mask out of despair of hearing any other voice in his head, all the way until he is about to kill Rey, then realizes that there is another voice in there, one not bound by the Force or visions. It is merely his memory of his father that gets to him, something that Palpatine can never silence. For this, I think it would make sense for Kylo to have no visions of Han prior to this in the film, but for Palpatine to continue saying that there can be no other voices in Kylo’s head but his own.

Just some stream of consciousnesses thoughts about this post.

Could we reuse the scene of Palpatine threatening to turn his fleet on Kylo after failing to capture Rey, and instead have Kylo be hearing/recollecting the conversation he had with his father in TFA?
“Take off that mask”
“-using you for your power.”
“When he gets what he wants he’ll crush you.”
“You know it’s true.”

Or, perhaps we could intercut these lines with the existing lines from Palpatine. The idea being Han is the voice of Ben’s conscience, and it is trying to break through Palpatine’s influence. It could be subtle maybe.

Having a moment of Kylo feeling “The pull to the light” would be a nice juxtaposition to the scene immediately preceding this one, where Rey says, “I’m going to find Palpatine, and DESTROY him”, especially if you have a version of the hangar/duel convo where Kylo basically says something like, “You need Palpatine’s power to save your friends, so you will kill him and take his power.” Finn gets bad vibes from Rey saying she’s gonna destroy Palpatine, so maybe Rey’s starting to accept the temptation at this point, as Kylo is on the flip side of things.