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Unpopular Opinion Thread — Page 28

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I’m really tired about people simping over Obi-Wan. I’m tired of hearing people talk about how great Obi-Wan is, how e is the best Jedi who ever lived, etc. Don’t get me wrong, I like the Prequel Trilogy, and Obi-Wan is one of my favorite characters. He was a good person and a good Jedi, and was pretty powerful. But the level of simping that some fans have towards his character nowadays is just beyond ridiculous. He is not a flawless character by any means (like anyone in Star Wars, by the way), and people should really stop viewing him as such.

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

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Ventress’ backstory in the Clone Wars multimedia project > Ventress’ backstory in TCW.

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

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Superweapon VII said:

Ventress’ backstory in the Clone Wars multimedia project > Ventress’ backstory in TCW.

IMO, anything from the Clone Wars Multimedia Project >>> Anything from TCW

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

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I’m sure some might also share this opinion, but I prefer when Jedi don’t get married or have kids. I can accept that some would here and there, but I’d like it to be kept at a minimum.

Move along, move along.

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I’m not entirely against the idea of bringing Darth Maul back from the dead. However, I don’t like the way it was portrayed in TCW.

In my opinion, it doesn’t make much sense to bring Maul back during the Clone Wars era. No one mentions him in Revenge of the Sith. No one mentions the fact that he is still alive and is now ruling over Mandalore, although it should be an important thing. So, talking from an in-universe perspective, you can reasonably assume that no one had any clue of the fact that he was still alive by the time of Revenge of the Sith. Therefore, if you want to bring him back so badly, you should do that after Revenge of the Sith itself.

If I want a good story where Darth Maul comes back, I prefer to read the Old Wounds comic. It makes much more sense, because it happens after the end of the Clone Wars themselves, and it’s a side story that doesn’t have any impact on what came before and after it. And, even though it was technically never considered Canon to begin with, it can actually fit perfectly in the same universe with the Prequel Trilogy and the Clone Wars Multimedia Project. So yeah, Old Wounds is superior to TCW, in my opinion.

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

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What I’m about to say might sound like a joke, but I’m serious.

If they will ever make an official “What if” animated episode (or movie) where Anakin doesn’t fall to the Dark Side and manages to live a happy life with Padmé, THAT will become the Canon version in my head. I will ignore Revenge of the Sith and subsequent works forever. Period.

I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion, though…

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

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Spartacus01 said:

What I’m about to say might sound like a joke, but I’m serious.

If they will ever make an official “What if” animated episode (or movie) where Anakin doesn’t fall to the Dark Side and manages to live a happy life with Padmé, THAT will become the Canon version in my head. I will ignore Revenge of the Sith and subsequent works forever. Period.

I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion though…

You’re proposing a scenario in which Anakin goes through with Padme’s proposal of running off to live a quiet life away from all the Galaxy’s conflicts raising a family.

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fmalover said:

Spartacus01 said:

What I’m about to say might sound like a joke, but I’m serious.

If they will ever make an official “What if” animated episode (or movie) where Anakin doesn’t fall to the Dark Side and manages to live a happy life with Padmé, THAT will become the Canon version in my head. I will ignore Revenge of the Sith and subsequent works forever. Period.

I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion though…

You’re proposing a scenario in which Anakin goes through with Padme’s proposal of running off to live a quiet life away from all the Galaxy’s conflicts raising a family.

Yes, a scenario where Anakin discovers and kills Darth Sidious before his nightmares and Order 66, and then leaves the Order after the Clone Wars to stay with Padmé on Naboo.

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

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Spartacus01 said:

What I’m about to say might sound like a joke, but I’m serious.

If they will ever make an official “What if” animated episode (or movie) where Anakin doesn’t fall to the Dark Side and manages to live a happy life with Padmé, THAT will become the Canon version in my head. I will ignore Revenge of the Sith and subsequent works forever. Period.

I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion, though…

I thought something like this a little while ago, back when everyone was getting hyped about Ewan McGregor and Hayden Christensen returning for Disney+ shows, and while all the comic book movies were jumping into multiverse stories. Instead of doing all these little piecemeal bits and announcing and canceling a dozen movies and putting out shows with a lower budget than they should have, they could have struck while the iron was hot and made an alternate universe movie like you’re talking about. Specifically that scenario, where Anakin stays good and they have to go on another adventure. It would have made a lot of money and been very popular.

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If Marvel can incoporate the concept of a multiverse, then why not Star Wars?

I like the alternative timeline concept. It could even allow Lucasfilm to clean up the issues many people had with the prequels and sequels.

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While I like the idea of a SW Multiverse, I hate the idea of crossovers between universes. I have little doubt Filoni and co. would sink that low.

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

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Under Kennedy’s tenure at Lucasfilm there has been more collaboration and a willingness to delegate seeing how she just elevated Dave. I can’t sweep under the rug all the directors who have been fired or quit over creative differences, and the total lack of most planned movies never getting made. But over all its not the dictatorship of the prequel. Its closer even to the OT where Lucas was willing to listen to other people’s ideas. And got input from them and even delegated to other directors.

Had Lucas made his sequel he should have followed the same process of the original, get other writers. Hire the best editors, take advice from friends. Direct only the first one.

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Superweapon VII said:

While I like the idea of a SW Multiverse, I hate the idea of crossovers between universes. I have little doubt Filoni and co. would sink that low.

Technically they already have with the World Between Worlds. Ahsoka was rescued from getting killed by Vader (maybe) by getting pulled into another timeline.

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I interpreted that as an instance of ‘single timeline’ time travel. As in, Ahsoka was never going to be killed by Vader because Ezra was always going to save her in the future. It’s not like this began another causal chain which led to a different Original Trilogy, for example.

Eh, World Between Worlds is dumb in any case.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

Eh, World Between Worlds is dumb in any case.

Yes, yes it is.

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

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Ugh. Applying the single unalterable timeline theory to SW fills me with so much disgust. “Always in motion is the future”, remember? Another reason why I hate that goddamn Chosen One horseshit.

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

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Unpopular opinion - I don’t like their depiction, but as depicted in the movies, the prequel Jedi that people call “dogmatic,” “flawed,” “political,” “cold,” etc. were right about a lot of things.

Anakin was actually too old to be trained. He was actually dangerous. They let him in because they felt bad about Qui Gon’s death. Anakin Chosen One was Qui Gon’s pet project. If the Jedi take any blame for it going wrong, the blame should go first to Qui Gon for setting it up in the first place. The most you can do is take a hard deterministic view of the Force (which is unsupported and I don’t agree with anyway) and say that it was necessary for Anakin to get taken in by Palpatine as a kind of unwitting sleeper agent who could kill him later, so it was necessary for the Jedi to find him and take him in and screw it up somehow. Otherwise everything would be better off.

They weren’t dogmatically following the prophecy, whatever it was. Anakin wasn’t their messiah. Everyone except Qui Gon and Obi Wan treated the prophecy with skepticism from the very beginning. If it was misread or misinterpreted or even fake, it didn’t really phase them because it wasn’t their idea. Somehow people get the notion that the Jedi were religious zealots and this demonstrates that they got super owned because they were too proud to understand their own doctrine. No, they openly talk about how they don’t know what it means! And ultimately their version of the prophecy is true anyway!

Anakin was not proof of why the Jedi rules “didn’t work,” he was proof that breaking the rules causes lots of problems. He is an example of why the rules exist. The Jedi rules clearly worked for thousands of years before this time. When people say “well the Jedi should teach people that it’s healthy to have emotions instead of suppressing them,” that’s exactly what they do. That’s what all the training is about. It’s meditation, it’s mindfulness, it’s stoicism, whatever you want to call it. The same thing modern people turn to because they’re so pent up and anxious all the time. Anakin deliberately ignored all of that.

Anakin also chose to stay. He could have quit and gone home to his mom at any time, or quit to be with Padme at any time. That’s why there’s dialogue in Revenge of the Sith dedicated to his multiple motivations. He wants to be a master, he wants to be on the council. He’s ambitious and craves power, not just love.

Speaking of, the Jedi were right not to make him a master. He didn’t earn it. They didn’t want to send the message that Palpatine had absolute power over everyone including the Jedi. It was indeed an honor to let Anakin on at all, given that it was illegitimate to begin with. Obi Wan was likely telling the truth when he said the council would make him a master soon. It was about sticking it to Palpatine. They also put a lot of trust into Anakin by assigning him to spy on Palpatine directly. Windu, Anakin’s biggest critic, thought it was a bad idea, but went ahead with it anyway. Though he didn’t want Anakin to come along, he believed him immediately when he said Palpatine was a Sith Lord. When Padme said “they trust you with their lives,” she was right.

And the Jedi were right to spy on Palpatine. They should have done it even sooner. They were also right to try to assassinate him. He did have control of the senate and the courts, and was too dangerous to be left alive. Anakin’s interjections here about “the Jedi way” were a self-serving delay tactic so he could try to learn some unnatural abilities and save Padme.

Going into the original trilogy, Yoda and Obi Wan were right to tell Luke not to go to Cloud City. The fact that this is in doubt is absolutely crazy to me, but people have retroactively determined this is about the “attachment rule” from the prequels. No, it’s about how Luke isn’t ready, demonstrated by how he failed the test in the cave. He got his hand cut off and almost died. Lando freed Leia, Chewie, and the droids without Luke’s intervention and Han would have been frozen and taken either way. It’s not that they don’t want Luke to have friends.

I’ve ranted about this many times before, but Yoda and Obi Wan were not telling Luke to kill Vader. They told him to confront Vader. He had to face him to become a Jedi, whatever the outcome might be. Obi Wan says in effect that Luke has to be willing to kill Vader if it comes down to it, but he doesn’t tell him that this is explicitly a tactical assassination mission. It’s a spiritual test, a Jedi trial. It’s the follow up to the cave and the duel in ESB. They know that there’s a whole rebel alliance out there that will take care of blowing up death stars and all the other stuff. It’s a battle for Luke’s soul, which also turns into a battle for Vader’s soul. This is borne out in the early EU in the Timothy Zahn books, where it’s stated that Yoda and Obi Wan could have annihilated Vader and the Emperor any time they wanted, but they chose not to. This was overwritten later but it shows the frame of mind going on in ROTJ. It’s not a “take out the enemy commander” thing. “Soon I’ll be dead, and you with me.”

The line “once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny” is also misinterpreted. Yoda isn’t saying literally any time you get angry or use the Force in anger, you’re beyond hope or redemption. It’s not clear if there’s a specific threshold as it’s more of a gradual process. But in any case, turning to the dark side will continue to dominate your destiny in some form even if you are redeemed. The consequences of your actions will still be there. Vader was redeemed at the cost of dying, still knowing all the damage he had done will never be fully undone. His path through the dark side greatly limited the possibilities and freedom of his life, all the way to the end, redemption or not.

The Jedi are highly situationally stupid in Attack of the Clones so that the plot can happen. They probably could have put in some effort to free Anakin’s mom (assuming they had the chance before Lars already did,) and Obi Wan lied about Luke’s father’s identity. Other than that though, their track record is a lot more solid than people give them credit for.

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Vladius said:

The line “once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny” is also misinterpreted. Yoda isn’t saying literally any time you get angry or use the Force in anger, you’re beyond hope or redemption. … The consequences of your actions will still be there.

I don’t agree. The full line is “Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you, it will! As it did Obi-Wan’s apprentice.”

Specifically look at Yoda’s usage of the word “consume”. Your actions and your decision making will eventually be completely affected by the dark side. It isn’t just that your life is marred by the consequences of your actions, although it is that too, he’s saying that you can’t just dip your toes in the dark side. It’s something that’ll pull you further and further in.

After Return of the Jedi, there’s irony in referring to Darth Vader because he does return to the light. But Darth Vader is, at this point in the story, fully committed to evil. Yoda brings him up to emphasize that once you turn to the dark side, you inevitably become like Darth Vader.

I’ve ranted about this many times before, but Yoda and Obi Wan were not telling Luke to kill Vader.

Luke: “I can’t kill my own father.”

Obi-Wan: “Then the Emperor has already won.”

Reading R + L ≠ J theories

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Duel of the Fates is a great soundtrack, but I personally don’t think that it is as awesome as everybody say It is. And I studied music for several years.

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

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I prefer Boba and Jango Fett not being Mandalorians.

ToSpartacus: I agree. Duel of the Heroes (I think was the title) is much better in my opinion.

Also, to Vladius: I agree with everything you’ve said about the prequel Jedi specifically.

Move along, move along.

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Vladius said:

Unpopular opinion - I don’t like their depiction, but as depicted in the movies, the prequel Jedi that people call “dogmatic,” “flawed,” “political,” “cold,” etc. were right about a lot of things.

They can be right and still be all of those things.

Andor: The Rogue One Arc

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NFBisms said:

Vladius said:

Unpopular opinion - I don’t like their depiction, but as depicted in the movies, the prequel Jedi that people call “dogmatic,” “flawed,” “political,” “cold,” etc. were right about a lot of things.

They can be right and still be all of those things.

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

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To chime in again, I can understand the argument that the Jedi can be both correct about Anakin and the Force while being simultaneously flawed in their methods.

But for me, one of the big issues is that because of their flaws, whether perceived or legitimate, some people will say that the purge was justified and that the Jedi deserved it. (With an attitude not of sorrow or pity or even disappointment, but more like contempt.)

Mind you, I’m not talking about the idea that their mistakes could have created a domino effect that lead to their own demise - but rather the notion that they actually deserved to die such gruesome deaths, that it meant as a good thing to be celebrated, and that Lucas intended this idea.

Now, do we have the Jedi reform to overcome these flaws? Fair enough. I understand. But executed and mass murdered? Huh? I can’t agree with that.

Now with all that being said, I wouldn’t say the ‘Jedi deserved to die’ camp in particular is strong enough to make this take an unpopular opinion. This is just where my mind went and it’s probably not where anyone was going with this discussion though. I just thought it would be worth it to address.

Move along, move along.

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of_Kaiburr_and_Whills said:

To chime in again, I can understand the argument that the Jedi can be both correct about Anakin and the Force while being simultaneously flawed in their methods.

But for me, one of the big issues is that because of their flaws, whether perceived or legitimate, some people will say that the purge was justified and that the Jedi deserved it. (With an attitude not of sorrow or pity or even disappointment, but more like contempt.)

Mind you, I’m not talking about the idea that their mistakes could have created a domino effect that lead to their own demise - but rather the notion that they actually deserved to die such gruesome deaths, that it meant as a good thing to be celebrated, and that Lucas intended this idea.

Now, do we have the Jedi reform to overcome these flaws? Fair enough. I understand. But executed and mass murdered? Huh? I can’t agree with that.

Now with all that being said, I wouldn’t say the ‘Jedi deserved to die’ camp in particular is strong enough to make this take an unpopular opinion. This is just where my mind went and it’s probably not where anyone was going with this discussion though. I just thought it would be worth it to address.

I don’t think that the Jedi deserved the Purge. But I believe that they needed to be reformed, because I am of the opinion that some of their dogmas were wrong. As I said in another post, I think that the Jedi were good people with good intentions, and I believe that Anakin had serious psychological problems that needed to be fixed. However, I also believe that he can’t be 100% blamed for what happened, and I think that the Jedi made some mistakes with him. Therefore, I think that the downfall of the Jedi was kind of everyone’s fault. It was equally fault of Anakin, Palpatine, and the Jedi themselves. The same goes for Anakin’s fall to the Dark Side. In my opinion, it is way too simplistic to believe that the Jedi did nothing wrong and it was all Anakin and Palpatine’s fault, just as it is way too simplistic to believe that Anakin did nothing wrong and it was all fault of the Jedi Order.

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker