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Thought on de-SE'ing the DVD — Page 11

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Originally posted by: ReverendBeastly
Authoring an NTSC version might be a decent idea for those without any other way around it. I know a few of us here, though, have players that play PAL stuff back with no problem


Shouldn't be too difficult to make an NTSC one

Here's another image for you to peruse - one of my more complicated edits - can you see what's missing?

http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/81/17/moseisley.jpg

David
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So you've been working on this since the DVD came out last September? That's pretty quick!


Yup But I'd had a lot of practice with the SE LD version I'd already made.

I forgot another edit in that list. I used slowed and reversed footage to stop Vader gesturing for no reason (just before Tarkin says "Terminate her. Immediately!").

David
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"That is what my X-Wing GIF is of."

Careful inspection proves me wrong. I didn't see the comera rotation in those few frames.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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There's a few times where I think you'd have to include non-DVD footage, and they're all in ROTJ.

The Jabba musical number, the sarlacc, Sebastian's eyebrows, and the ghosting.


And believe me, the described ANH is AMAZING. Wow, that'd be great to have sitting on my desk.
The ultimate Special Edition, the way it should have been the first time.

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.

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those jump-cuts have been bugging the piss out of me for the longest time.

thank you.

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

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Originally posted by: Hal 9000
There's a few times where I think you'd have to include non-DVD footage, and they're all in ROTJ.

The Jabba musical number, the sarlacc, Sebastian's eyebrows, and the ghosting.

Yeah, I haven't really thought what I'd do with ROTJ yet. Certainly the Jabba musical number has to go, but I hope I can just chop around it without having to resort to lower quality footage. I was going to leave the Sarlacc alone - the only part I have a problem with is when that guy falls in and supposedly gets snapped up by the beak, yet he doesn't seem to slow down at all. The eyebrows are a good change! The ghost also has to be replaced. I may vidcap it multiple times on different equipment to reduce noise - I had some slight success on a test I ran on the stars at the beginning of ANH.

And believe me, the described ANH is AMAZING. Wow, that'd be great to have sitting on my desk.
The ultimate Special Edition, the way it should have been the first time.


I did toy with calling it "The Ultimate Edition" but that would be a bit big-headed of me

I've got a couple of things in mind for ESB - cutting out Vader's new lines, because it doesn't sound like James Earl-Jones, even though they say it's him, and replacing Luke's "You were lucky to get out of there," with "You're lucky you don't taste so good," from the SE. Thankfully Lucas already removed Luke's scream

David
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Good to know this is a PAL version!

Ideally it would be nice to see a finished version end up in the hands of Ritker or D.O., for distribution through BT/UseNet respectively, that's of course if you don't object to seeing your version become widespread (you didn't misuse anyone's Avid system for your edits, did you? )

IMO when you have finished the DVD, and if you are going to share it, you should start a new "info and feedback" thread to discuss your version. Yes it would be technically breaking forum rules, as it is sourced from the 2004 DVD, but we've got threads somewhere for MagFan's edits of Ep I and II and this is no different. As long as the thread sticks to information and reviews of the DVD and not how to obtain a copy, i.e. no offering for sale and no naming a specific torrent site or newsgroup then I don't consider it could get Jay into trouble - but it is a thin line and he must have the final say.

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"Yes it would be technically breaking forum rules, as it is sourced from the 2004 DVD"

With respect to my esteemed colleague ( ), this is still a faily informal forum, and people who do not care for your project need not read the thread. A certain unnamed poster never quite understood that message, and now he is no longer with us.

While I don't think that every single new project should be given a thread, I do think that yours clearly displays a great deal of hard work, and a variety of interesting techniques and choices. At the other end of the spectrum would have been a transfer like Spider's, which, as many would recall, was simply made by connecting a laserdisc player to a stand-alone DVD recorder. That is not the type of project that deserves a dedicated thread.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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I'll ask Jay about creating a new thread, once the edit is out there.

(you didn't misuse anyone's Avid system for your edits, did you? )


Actually I used VirtualDub. There are several Avid suites where I work, but I've never used them for anything. Where I needed to recreate wipes or overlay "patches" onto scenes, or slow down footage, I used C.

If anyone's interested in the technical details... for most image alignment purposes (such as replacing the attack clock but keeping it aligned to the slightly moving background) I would blow up a small section of the background to 800% with VirtualDub (Lanczos3 resize). Then in C I'd use the image sequence to calculate the alignment to 1/8th of a pixel. Most rotation/translation was done using Sinc interpolation (which apparently is the theoretical optimum) with a window of 36 pixels. For the last few fixes, when I started making my library of functions, I changed to Spline16 because it's not noticeably worse than Sinc, and has a window of just 16 pixels.

Morphs were done with [url=http://www.debugmode.com/winmorph/]WinMorph[/url].

David
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Well whenever you complete the project, I would love to take a peek at it.

And the ROTJ might work too, given what you said above. The eyebrows I don't really mind but I thought it might be worth changing back usign '97 SE footage.
I don't know how easy it'd be to cut around the musical number.... and it is important. Cant' you make just one exception and put the old on in? please please please?
Haha, no pressure, i'm half-kidding.

And even if it is PAL, I think people could download something to transfer it to NTSC on their computers, right?

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.

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And even if it is PAL, I think people could download something to transfer it to NTSC on their computers, right?


I'm not sure to be honest but there might be something that can do it, but it's not much trouble for me to render out another MPEG and resample the audio.

David
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Well good luck with the rest of this and the next two edits, Editous! (good name)

Another great way to get your "Ultimate Edition" trilogy shared, once it's done, is uploading it as a torrent. I'm sure Rikter or someone would love to do that for you!

MTFBWY

EDIT: And screenshots rock! Can you show us a few shots of stuff you've painted out/on? Like the green R5?

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.

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What have you replaced the shot of the rearing ronto with?

Have you painted out the probe droids?

How have you compensated for the missing frames when removing Jabba?

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IMO, if Jabba looked better, I wouldn't mind him in as long as the Greedo scene was altered to use its original lines.
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Can you show us a few shots of stuff you've painted out/on? Like the green R5?

This was a simple change of hue:

http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/82/13/green.jpg

What have you replaced the shot of the rearing ronto with?

Nothing, it's just completely gone. I was quite lucky with the music there, and it splices together without sounding too weird at all.

Have you painted out the probe droids?


Nah, I kept those in, except for the one that gets knocked down as the speeder enters Mos Eisley. I didn't find it to be too bad a change.

How have you compensated for the missing frames when removing Jabba?


Do you mean the frames that were in the mix in and out of the Jabba scene? For in the inwipe, I slowed down the footage of the guy approaching the camera, which serendipitously makes him look rather sinister. The outwipe is circular, so some of the frames could be reconstructed using cut and paste from later frames. Where that wasn't possible, I had to manual move elements from later frames, particular R2 and the piggy guy who's coming around the corner in the background.

The position of the mix doesn't quite match the OT, but the total number of frames in the two shots does.

I wouldn't mind him in as long as the Greedo scene was altered to use its original lines.


I didn't know it had original lines! I assume Han's were different too which would make it pretty tricky. Even then, I don't really like the Jabba scene, particularly Boba Fett practically winking at the audience at the end! "Hey, it's me!"

David
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Did you do anything about the new "siren" sound effect Obi Wan makes to scare off the sand people?

And cool screenshot about the green R5. Looks like it was that way all along!

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.

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Han's lines were basically the same minus "Even I get boarded sometimes, you think I had a choice?" and Greedo's lines were almost entirely different. It's on part 10 of ocpmovie's Deleted Magic.
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Originally posted by: Hal 9000
Did you do anything about the new "siren" sound effect Obi Wan makes to scare off the sand people?


Nope. Again, I didn't find it a big problem, although it would have been an easy thing to fix.

I was slightly taken aback when I first heard it, but I can live with it. It sounds more organic, more like a sound a human could make, and a lot less like a Dewback.

David
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Editous, since you seem to do a wonderful job with the painting and masking of film any chance of taking a crack at the scenes found in the bonus material on the DVDs? The ones I mean particularly are the 'If my blade should find it's mark' with Obi-Wan and the "And you call yourselves human" scene with Tarkin and Leia. I only bring this up because you seem to have corrected similar scenes that were actually in the film.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Originally posted by: Hardcore Legend
Editous, since you seem to do a wonderful job with the painting and masking of film any chance of taking a crack at the scenes found in the bonus material on the DVDs? The ones I mean particularly are the 'If my blade should find it's mark' with Obi-Wan and the "And you call yourselves human" scene with Tarkin and Leia. I only bring this up because you seem to have corrected similar scenes that were actually in the film.


I have to be honest... I've never even looked at any of the extras! What needs doing to them, and are they of matching quality to the actual film?

David
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The quality is decent. None of it has finished effects (ie: no saber effects for Obi-wan) and no planet explosion for Alderaan. I tried splicing them into the film once and it turned out pretty well, but you could tell that happened. Basically I used masks instead of painting everything back in the right way.

Anyways, I only bring it up because I really like the Obi-Wan part that was cut:

The exchange goes:

Vader: Your powers are weak old man!
Obi: You can't win, Darth. If my blade should find it's mark, you will cease to exist but no matterif you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
**Saber Clash**

Does alot better job of explaining why Vader can't win.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Was that line ever recorded? I know it is in the novelization.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Was that line ever recorded? I know it is in the novelization.


The "Blade" one?

Yeah, it's in the documentary 'Empire of Dreams' as a bonus feature on the DVD.


The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Darth Editous, this edit sounds WAY cool. I'm glad to see new forum members come in and take the bull by the horns as well. I joined six months ago and knew practically nothing, and six months later I now know next-to-nothing instead. But I get to chat with and learn from all you brilliant types. I hope this edit will get out there and I hope it'll find its way to my front door.

One question: what is your audio source? The source that came to me via Neil S. Bulk a few pages back is an awesome source for addressing so many of the sonic screw-ups on the official DVD and will be my primary audio track when/if I ever get my project out the door. It's sittin' on my HD waiting for the damn saber fix. Let me know if you need to be hooked up with that AC3 file.

In other news, I've clearly been absent for a few days. I've been working on my own re-edit of Ep I and it is complete. At least, as complete as I'm going to take it now. I've been doing a marathon re-edit and am burned out, but I just watched most of it and am comfortable with 95% of what's there. I'd still like to do my own crawl, but need the help of others to accomplish it. There is one hard-edit that I couldn't soften up with my remedial tools (can't do audio crossfades and soft wipes), but the others are pretty straightforward. I've never seen any of the other Phantom Edits beyond MF's BOTF, so I have no idea if I've duplicated effort. Not likely. In any case, the quality is certainly the greatest so far, as it's sourced from the DVD and a MPEG-2 GOP editor was used, so none of the audio or video has been recoded. Except in the few frames where fade outs or fade ins or crossfades were put in place, the frames are exactly the same as the source, and THAT makes for good watching.

Anyway boyos, here's a general list of what's different:
  • I started with the film and added in all of the deleted scenes in context. This gave me the full palette to work with. From there, I started trimming back the things that bothered me most. About fifteen minutes' worth of nips and tucks, with a few large excises, but mostly just the nonsensical little crap.
  • Jar Jar's goofiness is trimmed WAY back, but without sacrifice to the story. In some different ways from BOTF too, given that I wasn't changing dialogue.
  • Same thing with Boss Nass. He still does the "slobbery jowls" thing on his last line, just because I couldn't figure how to edit around it for the background music. But otherwise, he's not riddled with all of these tics.
  • Anakin's childishness is likewise trimmed WAY back. Everything he does is intentional. The scene with him learning the ships controls from Ric Olie is back in, because it shows his intuition with foreign machinery. Then, when he is in the Naboo fighter, he is not randomly pressing buttons and lucking out, he takes the gun and starts shooting battle droids. The ship is not on autopilot, he flys that ship straight out to the droid control ship and fights with the Naboo as best as he can. Most of the silliness is lopped out.
  • Queens are born, not elected. This also explains why a planet would have a 14-year-old leader. Stupid plot point and wasted opportunity on GL's point turned to our advantage by just removing references to an election.
  • Jar Jar is not a General. He's fighting with his fellow Gungans, but not leading them. (sadly, cutting the scene where he is made general is the source of the most abrupt and awful edit in my mix. I tried all kinds of different things, but ultimately, we got what we got.) But he fights to the best of his ability and he does NOT surrender.
  • No fart and poop jokes.
  • Nute Gunray does not recognize Padme as the queen when he captures her, similar to what I did in my BOTF subtitles. It always bothered me that they had this elaborate system of having a decoy, with the Queen's face remaining hidden behind makeup, yet Nute immediately recognized this handmaiden as the Queen. The "fake out" on Nute becomes more of a proper diversion by the decoy.
  • No friggin' midichlorians. Bye Bye. See ya.


As with any Phantom Edit, it's not without it's flaws, but on the whole, it's just another perspective from a jaded fan. In the end, this is a version of the film that abuses none of Lucas' vision, but rather "proofreads" his final submission. While BOTF may remain more fun to watch because of its wholesale improvement on the plot and "how-did-he-do-that" technical wizardry, this will hopefully be a watchable and enjoyable version of Lucas' film. Not to mention, you have to do a lot less reading of subtitles on this movie. The original ones are still there of course, rewritten in some places. But Gungans and Neimoidians do speak English in this version.

I hope the GOP editors (that's tech-speak, not anything to do with Republicans) will only advance (and I'm sure they will) in the next few years, so that when I get to re-edit this in HD, I'll be able to do the much-needed soft wipes and crossfades without totally having to recompress everything.

Have a great Easter weekend, folks. I'll be off the boards for a few days, hiding eggs and watching The Passion. Whoever put those two concepts together?
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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One question: what is your audio source?


The DVD. My secondary source for when the sound quality gets too low is the SE LD. Actually there are still a couple of lines I'd like to replace, although it's quite a tedious process. Hooking up the LD and RF decoder, recording the AC3 via a SPDIF-USB box, decoding it (assuming the recording was good - occassionally it loses data. When I did my SE LD edit, two out of three recordings of the AC3 data were broken in at least one place), and pasting it into place. Besides I expect there'll be yet another "this is the only one" edition in a few years which will hopefully have better audio.

On the video side of things, I did consider trying to use a GOP editor but decided it wasn't worth the trouble.

ADM, PM or email me if you'd like some help making a crawl or doing some soft wipes.

David