'Thee Backslacpkping With Media' — Page 5

Thanks klokwerk for watching and commenting.

Another example from Sci-Fi of video edited on demand would be TNG.  There's at least a few cases where Data would sit in front of a screen and speed watch selected video.  It's not directly discussed how the video in the scene got sequenced but it's guessed at like an encyclopedia entry.  (also there's the scene of him listening to several musical pieces at the same time, which explains my love of noise)  Collecting these clips would make a great introduction to a product concept video.  Hadn't heard of 'The Final Cut', will check it out.

Glad you found a 'narrative' in the clips you previewed.  Some definitely had a logical progression so that the piece people were talking about sequed so that you would be drawn into and understand the issues at the end of the chapter, or at least be introduced to what they said, everyone can draw their own conclusions.  But then there's some chapter like Stormtroopers and Lightsabers which are what you were expecting, just a mass of clips which really don't go anywhere.  It depended on the material, how the final application came out.

Although copyright is seen to be restrictive now, as systems which could do this video search start appearing, I think the majority of creators would rather have their creations available to the those who search, then have their works locked down temporarily or eternally.

none

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Updated-forum-rules-regarding-fan-edits-and-preservation-efforts-a-must-read-for-everyone/post/406583/#TopicPost406583

R.I.P. RotS 133t Subtitled Trailer

http://nuar.lunarpages.com/

Is this the same one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AiWBCGz5Ws 

Yes that is a copy of the trailer. This work did gather a semblance of support, so it still exists in various places. (an ironic one being the old iFilm location which got bought out by Spike TV, so the channel with exclusive rights to the SW films, makes you watch a commercial before watching the RotS 133t Trailer)

Commercialized Version : http://www.spike.com/video/star-wars-133t/2667391

In the interview with the creator 133t m4r( he pointed out that this doesn't bother him, the work still gets to be seen, but he was bothered by the sites which burn in their logo onto his piece. Those were some of his concerns.

Interview : http://www.noneinc.com/tBSWM/tBSWM_FAQ.html#l33tweek

and he hasn't commented to my heavy lifting of his subs when I put them onto the Celebration live performance of the RotS Trailer.

http://www.noneinc.com/tBSWM/tBSWM-Video-ArchiveOrg/Thee_Backslacpkping_With_Media-Chap_26-PlayCont.html

For me the issues comes up if any video posted online today, eventually becomes commercialized by some organization (as in this case with an ad), why not allow the creators to reap the rewards while they live.  and since that seems to be the way the internet is going, then are any of these Cease and Desists done for any reason beside lessening the public support these works have gathered.

--- "Hey I wanted to watch the rest of that" Clip Offer -->

Someone from another forum brings up the point that when they watched tBSWM, they were often thinking "Hey I wanted to watch the rest of that!"  Maybe some of you have had the same reaction, so if you can remember the times when this occurred, i'll post the full clip and we'll see how things change when you are aware of the full context.

Also someone (same person actually) said that they don't think the way things are presented in tBSWM is now the video search system would return results.  What interaction system or results changes do you think would make the system work better.  tBSWM system has speed on it's side, the clips are lined up and run constantly until the query runs out of relevant material.  I was remembering the old arcade games which used a video source (Dragon's Lair) where your joystick action told the system where to go next.  My speculation is that what if, the playing video was full screen, but relevant 'to be watched next' material would be lined up on one side and you could chose them based off a still frame and short transcript below : providing clues to what they contain.

Some of the value tBSWM provides is what it removes.  Thinking about the above, remembered that close to 70% of these original sources had one form of the trailer in it.  Who wants to watch the SW Episode 3 trailer 490 times.  Now yes most of us probably did at that time, since it was everywhere, but why ever do that ever again.

Sorry this isn't terribly relevant to the topic, but Dragon's Lair FTW!

is this apart of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoKSfhZjzis

%20 Honors 'backstroke of the west' with an interview with Jeremy Winterson, finder and blogger of the engrish RotS subtitles.

Shortly after the release of Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith, the inevitable happened, a chinese bootleg. Although The People's Republic of China had decreed March 15, Anti-Piracy Day, the chinese speaking public's desire to view culture from outside their country had lead to a mini-industry of people re-subtitling movies. Normally, the re-subtitling is done into Mandarin for the benefit of the non-english reading world, but in this case the subtitler took it a step further and provided a new set of English subtitles for the world to read. But they weren't just read, they were embraced and became an active part of the cultural evolution as an internet meme. And we have Jeremy Winterson to thank for this opportunity.

So what is the bootleg story in Shanghai? (In New York City, many get sold on the sidewalks, between knock off shoes and other clothing.)
JW: In Shanghai in the evenings when people leave work they set up shop all over town- I'd sometimes grab a movie here and there walking back home from work. I had tossed the DVD onto a big pile. The street vendors aren't hassled by anyone so they set up shop on street corners for several hours during the evening- typically selling out of one or two small open briefcases. The place I used to buy from was a shop- it was a 'fake storefront'- when you walked in there was a woman with a rope who pulled on a section of wall to reveal the real store behind. Tons and tons of DVD- every type of series you can imagine in all sorts of weird combinations- every Sopranos episode in one box, every Star Trek New Generation, all of Palin's Around the World... each one was $1 per disc.

Living/working abroad, was the bootleg watching a way to stay in touch with the culture you grew up with? Especially since many movies never make it there or come out months/years later. Or maybe was the bootleg collecting been a coping mechanism to deal with the new surroundings?
JW: I've not been back to any bootleg shops since about a year ago. I've got a HUGE backlog of DVDs that I've bought and never watched and my customers haven't asked to go.

Have you gotten a sense that the subtitlers are aware of the movie in a cultural sense, so that when they translate they interpret the subtitles in a certain way? From what you've seen, do the Chinese subtitles generally have a certain tone: mechanical, jingositic, other?
From what I've seen, it's only the newest of the new releases that get special subtitle treatment- and not all DVDs either, as the less popular movies will sometimes have subtitles missing or have subtitles from a completely different movie. I wonder if whoever was paid to do the subtitles just swapped in a file from another movie knowing that the pirates couldn't tell the difference.

Of course when the DVDs are released then the pirated DVDs wind up being straight copies with no issues.

So there's a window in which there's demand for subtitles and there aren't any original subtitles/script available for reference. That's when human translation comes in. A lackey gets paid to watch the movie and translate it over to Chinese (or in some cases, Bahasa Indonesian) and then the other subtitles are created from there. If you look at my blog the Rocky Balboa movie got the same sort of treatment.
(http://winterson.com/2007/04/rocky-vi-is-strange-shell-wave.html)

For the lackey to do his job he has to do a fair amount of interpretation. Not only the words being said but the meaning behind them. In Backstoke you can see that sometimes he misheard what was being said (eg. with Yoda's pregnancy vs premonitions) or in other cases he changed the meaning slightly (eg. force becomes 'wish power').

So a fair amount of cultural understanding is needed for the subber to work on the movie.

Take us back to 2005, we're you specifically interested in Star Wars or was it just the latest/greatest?
JW: I've always been a big Star Wars fan. I even queued up in line for Episode 1, which I found to be a bit of a disappointment at the time.

Was there any Star Wars buzz, the hype in the US was palpable, but did the culture over there get that excited? Or just run of the mill, here comes the next American Summer Blockbuster Movie.
JW: Fairly run-of-the-mill. The original trilogy never was launched in a big way in China so kids weren't raised up on it. People did know it was a big movie but they didn't pay any more attention to it than say, Avatar, which was hyped up in China even more.

When you started watching 'star war - the third gathers - backstroke of the west', how did it all settle in, the realization that hey, i've come across something extraordinary?
JW: It wasn't until my sister came to visit and was watching it early one morning that we realized how bad/good the subtitles were.

How far into the movie were you when the realization dawned that it was time to blog?
(http://winterson.com/2005/06/episode-iii-backstroke-of-west.html & http://winterson.com/2009/01/episode-iii-backstroke-of-west-redux.html)
JW: At the time I was blogging regularly. As soon as I saw how crazy the subtitles were I thought I gotta share it with my friends. Of course I never expected so many people to read that particular blog entry!

Did you have to advertise it's existence at all, or once posted friends and search engines drove traffic organically?
JW: Not at all. In the beginning I posted just 5 or 6 screenshots. A friend told me he would circulate my entry around his office and that's what started the initial traffic, I think. I got people requesting me to post more screenshots so I did it shortly before going on vacation. The next day I found that my website was down due to all the traffic and scrambled to find ways to put it back up. Some readers helped me set things up using the coral cache to reduce bandwidth and I also increased the amount on my account.

How early after posting did the blog fail to handle the traffic?
JW: From memory the first couple of days there was a spike and then it started to come down. Maybe a few thousand people. After I posted the other screenshots I had 50,000 unique visitors overnight. It took me a day to fix things, which wasn't easy as I was traveling overseas and in the meantime a couple of people posted mirrors which for a while got a lot of traffic. In the first couple of weeks there were around 500,000 visitors. Now it's a fairly steady number of about 300-400 per day unless someone new links, in which case it can spike quite a bit.

Then in the weeks after your blog post, you watch the popularity soar. Must have been annoying the number of times you got asked for a copy, any strange people request one?
JW: I like to think that I was allowed to keep Backstroke up because the Star Wars folks have a sense of humor. I got lots of requests to send off a copy of the DVD and only mailed off 2- one of them to someone at LucasArts. =) I took a quick look back at the folks who had requested a copy of Backstroke- a bunch of random ones. Aside from LucasArts there was a guy in Pixar (who apparently represented a few folks who wanted to see the DVD) and a guy in a venture capital firm in California. Most of the requests came within the first week- now I just get a 'comment' every now and then on the website.

What/Where do you think the tipping point was which shifted this into viral mode?
JW: I think people just saw it as something very funny, and as a lot of people know Star Wars there were a lot of people who appreciated it so it got forwarded on and blogged about. Darth Vader's unusual-sounding "Nooooo..." at the end of the movie was already being parodied, and when 'Do not want' came out as the translation people jumped on it. I think it was the YTMND and /b/ folks who got things going, but not totally sure.

Have you followed the 'backstroke of the west's cultural evolution? From subtitle to meme to __INSERT HERE__? Where have you found traces of backstroking influence?
JW: In the beginning I was amazed/shocked at how much traffic my site got. I was constantly searching to see who was saying what about it. I haven't searched for Backstroke stuff in a long time now. 'Do not want' is still very much out there- I stumble across it all the time.

Brief history of 'backstroking' influence:
Most notoriously the 'Do No Want' meme: http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Backstroke_of_the_West

"Oldfags also recognize this film as the origin of DO NOT WANT."

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/DO_NOT_WANT

Also commonly expressed in proper English as; "I find myself desiring not to offend, but I must make clear my severe and vehement dislike for the offered material. I say sir, please kindly remove the offending post and yourself from my sight."

While the original clip spawned a YTMND (http://donotwant.ytmnd.com/) meme, the "Do not want" line was found infinitely more lulzy and has thus spread throughout the internets as one of the most widely used memes.

Gallery of 'Do Not Want' images: http://macrochan.org/search.php?tags=Do+not+want (possibly NSFW)

More Info: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/do-not-want

5 years later, one bootleg dvd brought about over 500 comments to your blog post, and search engines find over sixty thousand results for 'backstroke of the west', and one of the subsequent meme's 'Do Not Want' finds over 6.5 million images, how crazy is that?
JW: Totally crazy!!!!
Makes me wish I had something worthwhile to say rather than just the random crap on my blog... hahahah....

Do you think the original subtitler will one day surface?
JW: I think the original subtitler has no idea. If I had to guess I think it was probably some student at a lower-tier university in China who was paid a few dollars to translate it from English to Chinese, then a computer was used to make the subtitles in English from the Chinese. That's the only way I can think that the meaning got so twisted but yet still stuck to the subject of the movie.

Very much thanks, Jeremy.
%20

::Extra Info::

For those interested in specific translation interpretations, the following wiki page has explanations of how things possibly got re-subtitled: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_War_The_Third_Gathers:_The_Backstroke_of_the_West

Watch 'backstroke of the west': http://www.youtube.com/user/BackstrokeOfTheWest

dbowgett has superimposed the backstroke subtitles onto the Original Star Wars: http://dbowgett.users.btopenworld.com/

Authentic Audio Backstroke? http://www.youtube.com/user/TheThirdGathers

Real Fake Authentic original Star Wars Engrish subtitle screencaps: http://www.opticalsin.com/sw_engrish/main_anh.html (found 2004)

For those attending CV, if you see:

say hello.

none

The FOIA request to the FBI for documentation about the pre-operation details of Operation D-Elite has returned. Pages can be viewed from: http://noneinc.com/tBSWM/tBSWM_FAQ.html#FOIA (scroll down to "2010.11.08 - Response : Federal Bureau of Investigation")

example:

Full Size: http://noneinc.com/tBSWM/tBSWM_FOIA/tBSWM-FOIA_FBI-20101108_01of14.jpg

First impression is that they set up and provide an overview of the case. The dates are interesting as they show that this 'ROUTINE' problem had been established months prior. Also that action could have been taken weeks before Star Wars was leaked. So this leads creedance to the idea that the Star Wars leak was something special. Who specified why the Star Wars leak was special is not alluded to in the documents.

Request: if anyone is a member of potuk.com and could save the forum pages from the RotS workprint leak, would be much appreciated.  Or an invite and i'll save them myself.  thanks in advance.

Thanks for checking into it Moth3r.  Asking that community to willingly pro-offer information is a long shot.  It has been 5+ years and maybe now people might be more willing to discuss what took place, for all sides to re-examine the details and see larger issues.

There's a few forum posts online which reference the potUK Sith leak:

http://207.234.224.227/archive/index.php/t-2892.html

carpboy

18th May 2005, 04:18 PM

its on pot uk m8,by some guy with a 30kbps up,a screener with a countdown timer at the top of screen.
the samples also on uk-t :bow:
its 1.4 gig iso image,and looking at the sample looks good apart from the larger than average countdown timers :D
Trouble is theres one seeder and 400 leechers :rant:

carpboy

18th May 2005, 11:20 PM

i can confirm this is not a fake :clap2: :clap2:
just been confirmed on the forums by someone whos just completed download :yes: :yes: :yes:

6 (maybe upto 12) hours for they all waited for this file.  The details are probably a little off, since Elite Torrents was to have had the file pre-May 19th and from random bits it sounds like possible the potUK torrents was lifted by thepiratebay and it was a user from TPB who took it to Elite Torrents.  Somewhere in that chain it got RAR'd which is more or a usenet practice then torrents, so well the details are still sketchy, atm.

Currently looking at the RotS leak (ViSA workprint) file for tidbits of info.  Have a thread in the How-To section for recommendations/ideas on sleuthing or forensic ways to examine the files:  Feel free to add something here or there.

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/VIDEO-TS-sleuthing-forensics-How-can-I-and-what-could-I-learn/topic/12158/

One of the clues that this file is the leak file is the Title/Chapter structure.  The 2 VOBs are split into 5 Titles, four of which have 99 chapter, the first having 94.  These chapters line up with every consecutive camera change.

http://www.noneinc.com/tBSWM/tBSWM_FAQ.html#LibraryOfCongress

Dear Mr. Lopez:

Please accept our apologies for the delay in contacting you about this claim. We are writing now because it is not clear whether you have obtained permission to use the preexisting material contained in your new version of this work. The preexisting material appears to be under copyright protection.

The copyright owner of a work has the exclusive right to make a new version of that work (Section 106 of the copyright law, 17 USC). The law also provides that copyright protection for a work that includes previously copyrighted material does not extend to any part of the work in which this material has been used unlawfully (Section 103). This means that copyright protection will not extend to a derivative work such as a translation, adaptation, or musical arrangement if the preexisting material under copyright protection has been used unlawfully. For more information, please see Circular 22. Please check any written permissions you might have from the copyright owners to determine the extent of your rights with regard to using the copyrighted works. If you have obtained such permissions, please confim this in writing and we will reconsider registration.

If you are not authorized to use the preexisting material or your written permissions indicate that you do not have the right to claim copyright in the new version, we cannot register the claim as submitted. In accordance with our practices, we will close your tile without further action. The fee is not refundable.

If you want to register a claim in your original text (commentary), please send a new printed copy containing only this text. Also, please give us your authorization to amend the "nature of authorship" line to describe the claim as "text" only. We will also delete your statements in the "preexisting material" and "material added to this work" spaces, assuming this text has not been previously published or registered.

Initial Response: Maybe the Library of Congress is trying to make me aware of the potential consequences. But I don't understand why they are worrying about permissions. According to the Library of Congress website: (http://www.loc.gov/about/mission.html)

Quote: "The Library's mission is to support the Congress in fulfilling its constitutional duties and to further the progress of knowledge and creativity for the benefit of the American people."

This work was attempting to push the progress of knowledge and creativity in my own odd way. I hope it is to the benefit of more then just the American people.

Maybe the Library of Congress is attempting to do me a favor. But my stance is what I submitted should be included into the Library. If it is or is not lawful, I don't get to choose. There are exceptions to the exclusive rights of copyright law so that authors can create creative works with limited use of copyrighted materials without acquiring permission from the rights holder; commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, scholarship are a few. The laws and how they are weighed on the scale of justice make the final decision. 'Thee Backslacpkping With Media' is a creative work and to have a robust Library, the inclusion of 'Thee Backslacpkping With Media' should happen. If at any time someone wants to take issue with the reuse which occurs in 'Thee Backslacpkping With Media', then we'll deal with that as it comes. So far, I can barely get people to watch the work. Having the Library of Congress make a permission pre-judgement, I don't think sends the right message to creators.

Sincerely,
%20

Official Response:

http://noneinc.com/tBSWM/tBSWM_FAQ.html#LibraryOfCongress_permissionsResponse

2011.03.11

Library of Congress
Copyright Office
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, D.C. 20559-6000

Title: 'Thee Backslacpkping With Media' Control Number: 81-512-1302(L)

To whom it may concern,

This letter is to explain my position why the work, 'Thee Backslacpkping With Media' should be included into the Library of Congress.

Although advised by examiner, Gareth James, that the commentary portion of this presentation could be included as just the text, I informed him that both the audio/video and commentary were 98% recycled. So I am proceeding with the 'Performing Arts' registration, realizing that it will most likely be denied, because the 700+ permissions have not been obtained.

I view this presentation as citizen journalism. Although it was 2005 (before youtube) vast volumes of media data was available for consuming and reinterpretation.

I don't claim to own copyright of any of the pieces in this presentation. Just like the author of a book doesn't claim ownership of the letters 'C' or 'P'. Letters are the tools of writers. Media sources and their sentence, word fragments or images are the building blocks of my attempt at citizen journalism. And that collective re-newsing is what I feel deserves a copyright registration. I understand this registration doesn't protect me from future lawsuits dealing with the individual reuse cases from their owners. All published versions of 'Thee Backslacpkping With Media' has been dedicated to the Public Domain, Creative Common's license CC0 1.0 Universal Public Domain Dedication.

According to the Library of Congress' website: (http://www.loc.gov/about/mission.html)

Quote: "The Library's mission is to support the Congress in fulfilling its constitutional duties and to further the progress of knowledge and creativity for the benefit of the American people."

If the Library of Congress denies works on the lack of permission claim, they are failing to support their Congress persons, since much of public knowledge falls into this grey area which has been created by advances in technology.

The Library of Congress is acknowledging this grey area and the media landscape shift with two recent acquisitions.

1. http://twitter.com/librarycongress/status/12169442690
Quote: "Library to acquire ENTIRE Twitter archive -- ALL public tweets, ever, since March 2006! Details to follow.
10:36 AM Apr 14th, 2010 via web Retweeted by 100+ people"

All those retweets are given equal time in the Library of Congress archive, even though they are 99% exact copies of their source.

2. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/09/sports/09archive.html?src=twrhp
Title: Library of Congress Buys Audio Archive

Quote: "Miley was a junior at Bosse High School in 1947 when he began taping sporting events as a hobby with a $165 wire recorder that his father bought from Sears & Roebuck."

These are illegal recordings according to the Permission rules applied to my project. Except these sporting event recordings are completely unaltered. Everything in 'Thee Backslacpkping With Media' has been processed / analyzed and reconfigured so that it tells a new story or enlightens upon a larger topic which wasn't necessarily the primary focus of the original recordings. Which is one of the guides in copyright legislation; does the work provide commentary, criticism, news reporting, research or scholarship.

It's the viewpoint of myself, that this type of presentation will be possible in future search engines. We have archives of video data (C-Span, youtube, etc.), the public is beginning to tag the data with meta values and recently even subtitles. Search engines can process the subtitle text just as easily as a webpage's text, so implementing simple video editing to the subtitles will make search results of processed video a reality. Presentations like 'Thee Backslacpkping With Media' will become commonplace, it might not be pretty but it is informative.

In all reproductions of 'Thee Backslacpkping With Media' all the original sources are declared so that the entity interacting with the project can seek out the original source. I will not be attempting to get 700+ permissions for a variety of reasons.

If denied, I will anonymously donate 'Thee Backslacpkping With Media' to the Library of Congress.

Thanks for your time and consideration, sincerely.

Peter A Lopez

Received some more documents from the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

:: http://noneinc.com/tBSWM/tBSWM_FOIA/FOIA_1156112-001/

1156112-001 --- 295B-SD-67338 --- Section 1.PDF  (pg. 20)

During a meeting with the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) on 03/17/2005, writer requested authorization from MPAA member companies for permission to exchange copyrighted material which is already being offered on Bit Torrent (BT) websites.  The only stipulation was that the FBI would not be originators of newly released material.  ***REDACTED*** Worldwide Enforcement, MPAA, ***REDACTED*** stated that he would request authorization and forward the documents to writer.

If i'm reading this right, does this imply that possibly the MPAA had asked in the past for the FBI to be the first leak?  Odd that they would not want to do this in the D-Elite case as they had the network compromised for multiple months.  (they had access to the harddrives which kept track of users files and downloads)

The tv recompiling system has arrived.

http://archive.org/details/tv

It's awesome, throw in any term and the system spits back 30 second relevant chunks using the closed captions.  At the moment it's the last three years of news programming, it's a great achievement.

http://blog.archive.org/2012/09/17/launch-of-tv-news-search-borrow-with-350000-broadcasts/

Sorry for bumping a old thread, but I’m currently searching for the full DVD of this. It’s no longer available on none’s website
http://noneinc.com/tBSWM/tBSWM_Video.html

The tBSWM_Video.html website was built upon a Shockwave player which most browsers default to not auto-playing. But the embedded video files are still there, under each chapter is a “Download .mp4 or .ogv”.
Or download all here: http://noneinc.com/tBSWM/tBSWM-Video-ArchiveOrg/
If you are looking for the full DVD it gets posted to alt.binaries.starwars every few years, there is a version sitting at 845 days.

Edit: For what will probably be a limited time, the RARs are re-available. Read the FAQ, Blynth.