The theatrical colors of the Star Wars trilogy — Page 11

I’ve always felt that there is something not quite right with Mike Verta’s colors. I think he may have over corrected for the perceived green tint - something the color on the blu-ray has in the reverse. It is hard to see the colors in the bootleg with the heavy fading and the yellow tones, but even so it seems much closer. I really look forward to seeing the color corrected scans, but to be honest, I trust DrDre’s eye for color more than anyone else. His last go at color correction was spot on and his samples scan have been stellar for the tech colors.

DrDre said:

These two examples of the same frame really show why I have issues with Mike Verta’s color choices. Both droids seem dull in the top one, but both gleam like metallic surfaces really do in bright lights in the lower one. And it doesn’t seem to be an artifact of the poor condition of of the tape as I get the same gleam when I correct to Mike’s 1 fps sample clips. Mike seems convinced that R2 should be very dark instead of letting the film tell him the color. In all the correction passes I have made on the GOUT, JSC, 97 SE broadcast, and BR, I have never gotten a dark R2 like this. The colors in the video tape are much closer to what I keep getting - a deep cobalt blue. Having been to the Star Wars Costume Exhibit at the Denver Art Museum where they had an original ANH R2 and several pieces to examine close up, the original R2 is not that dark and looks more like the lower photo (I have no idea how many Kenny Baker R2’s were made for ANH or which one was in this shot or which one is on tour with the exhibit).

yotsuya said:

DrDre said:

These two examples of the same frame really show why I have issues with Mike Verta’s color choices. Both droids seem dull in the top one, but both gleam like metallic surfaces really do in bright lights in the lower one. And it doesn’t seem to be an artifact of the poor condition of of the tape as I get the same gleam when I correct to Mike’s 1 fps sample clips. Mike seems convinced that R2 should be very dark instead of letting the film tell him the color. In all the correction passes I have made on the GOUT, JSC, 97 SE broadcast, and BR, I have never gotten a dark R2 like this. The colors in the video tape are much closer to what I keep getting - a deep cobalt blue. Having been to the Star Wars Costume Exhibit at the Denver Art Museum where they had an original ANH R2 and several pieces to examine close up, the original R2 is not that dark and looks more like the lower photo (I have no idea how many Kenny Baker R2’s were made for ANH or which one was in this shot or which one is on tour with the exhibit).

I’m pretty new to this, but I agree. Shouldn’t the above shot look more like this:

poppasketti said:

yotsuya said:

DrDre said:

These two examples of the same frame really show why I have issues with Mike Verta’s color choices. Both droids seem dull in the top one, but both gleam like metallic surfaces really do in bright lights in the lower one. And it doesn’t seem to be an artifact of the poor condition of of the tape as I get the same gleam when I correct to Mike’s 1 fps sample clips. Mike seems convinced that R2 should be very dark instead of letting the film tell him the color. In all the correction passes I have made on the GOUT, JSC, 97 SE broadcast, and BR, I have never gotten a dark R2 like this. The colors in the video tape are much closer to what I keep getting - a deep cobalt blue. Having been to the Star Wars Costume Exhibit at the Denver Art Museum where they had an original ANH R2 and several pieces to examine close up, the original R2 is not that dark and looks more like the lower photo (I have no idea how many Kenny Baker R2’s were made for ANH or which one was in this shot or which one is on tour with the exhibit).

I’m pretty new to this, but I agree. Shouldn’t the above shot look more like this:

This image is actually a photo Mike Verta took of a projected technicolor print with a 1970s bulb and screen. It does appear to look a bit off, compared to the actual frame, and the bootleg recording. It might be, that the 1970s bulb emitted a more yellow/orange hue due to its age, or perhaps this is another example of the color imbalances NeverarGreat discussed?

This image is actually a photo Mike Verta took of a projected technicolor print with a 1970s bulb and screen. It does appear to look a bit off, compared to the actual frame, and the bootleg recording. It might be, that the 1970s bulb emitted a more yellow/orange hue due to its age, or perhaps this is another example of the color imbalances NeverarGreat discussed?

Oh, I see. I thought that frame represented Mr. Verta’s final color grade, as I think yotsuya thought. My mistake!

Here’s a regrade of one of the Tarkin frames, that approaches what the shot looks like on a technicolor print.

Bluray:

Regrade:

That’s just wonderful Dr.Dre.

That’s… umm… that’s very green. Not saying it’s not correct, just wow, didn’t think it’d be so green.

Darth Lucas said:

That’s… umm… that’s very green. Not saying it’s not correct, just wow, didn’t think it’d be so green.

Yeah, it’s green:

It’s probably a little less saturated and contrasty in reality, but the hues are pretty close, although I prefer the photograph to the regrade, as it’s pretty hard to reproduce those colors with the missing gradients of the bluray.

The 1977 bootleg shows similar hues:

The Senator print photos are actually pretty consistent with the frames I have for the conference room shots:

I love the colours, not sure about the contrast

pittrek said:

I love the colours, not sure about the contrast

I tried to approximate the contrast of the photos, which tend to be more contrasty and saturated than the actual frames themselves, so it’s too contrasty and oversaturated. 😃

Here’s an update of the regrade, that better reflects what’s actually seen on the frame (green walls, blue lights), although the bluray gradient issues still make it look choppy for lack of a better word:

DrDre said:

Here’s an update of the regrade, that better reflects what’s actually seen on the frame (green walls, blue lights), although the bluray gradient issues still make it look choppy for lack of a better word:

For whatever reason this feels better on balance than the last one. Not sure why since it seems to be just as green, but doesnt read as such at a glance.

Why was my reply deleted?? I agree with Darth Lucas, the revision has less saturation making it look more like the photos and looks awesome!

A small improvement:

I think the updates are looking better. The technicolor prints have a known green shift, right? I can’t imagine that Lucas and Taylor would have made that artistic choice.

Anyway, I’d be really interested to hear any comments or read any articles about any of the principals discussing the subject.

Alderaan said:

I think the updates are looking better. The technicolor prints have a known green shift, right? I can’t imagine that Lucas and Taylor would have made that artistic choice.

Anyway, I’d be really interested to hear any comments or read any articles about any of the principals discussing the subject.

Yes, most tech prints have a green shift. However, the colors look pretty natural on the print itself. It’s really difficult to reproduce by correcting the bluray. Even the photo to my eyes looks fine, and the green doesn’t look distracting as it does for the regrade:

NeverarGreat said:

Here’s what I was able to come up with using the Blu-ray screencap you provided.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/205750

This was using only a curves and a channel mixer adjustment in Photoshop. I think most of the issue is in the luminosity. The Blu-ray is very flat and dark, so I almost always need to boost the midtones and especially the highlights while leaving the shadows roughly where they are.
Another thing I’ve noticed with these Tarkin shots, and many skin tones in this film, is that they are too dark even in comparison to the rest of the dark frame. A simple way to correct this with just a channel mixer is to boost the reds and then put some of the green and blue into the red channel, thus increasing its luminosity.

You’re a genius! That looks amazing. There’s also a much better separation between Tarkin’s uniform, and the walls.

I don’t know about accuracy, but it keeps looking better. The increased light reflection off the walls is starting to make them look colder and more metallic. One would assume that’s the look they were going for.

NeverarGreat said:

Here’s what I was able to come up with using the Blu-ray screencap you provided.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/205750

This was using only a curves and a channel mixer adjustment in Photoshop. I think most of the issue is in the luminosity. The Blu-ray is very flat and dark, so I almost always need to boost the midtones and especially the highlights while leaving the shadows roughly where they are.
Another thing I’ve noticed with these Tarkin shots, and many skin tones in this film, is that they are too dark even in comparison to the rest of the dark frame. A simple way to correct this with just a channel mixer is to boost the reds and then put some of the green and blue into the red channel, thus increasing its luminosity.

Neverar, what you should do one day is making a video (comparable to those that Williarob has posted for example) where a you show the correction of a shot from the beginning to the end. It would be very instructive !

For those that are lazy or don’t have NeverarGreat’s great talent like me, here’s a LUT produced with the color matching tool to approximate his regrade.

NeverarGreat:

Regrade with LUT:

LUT:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_LYKyZDiaja21Qc2JOZmRYNnc/view?usp=sharing