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The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread

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Welcome to "the Ranch"!

This thread is for the discussion of an edit of the Star Wars films that are focused on making the six-part narrative of "The Skywalker Saga" fit together more seamlessly as a whole. This project has grown out of a conversation that began in Trooperman's "Shroud of the Dark Side" thread between MTHaslett, Commander Courage and myself, and is now ready to be developed as a project by itself.

Look, I know this is "originaltrilogy.com", and before you tie me to a stake and burn me in the public square for suggesting that the OT should be altered in any way, let me just say that we all love Star Wars, we all love A New Hope - unaltered - un"specialed", period. And luckily, that version has been restored and preserved on DVD by guys like Garrett Gilchrist. We have it now to watch whenever we want.

But, what about the Star Wars Saga as a whole? What about consistency? What would a person who has never seen Star Wars think if they watched the Episodes in order today? Now that Lucas, after all these years of waiting, has finally bequeathed to us the "whole saga"... The "whole story"... Why is it that some of us are left feeling less than satisfied?

Let's face it, the credibility of the Star Wars franchise has been absolutely shredded with the advent of the Prequels. But, we believe there are parts of the Prequels that are actually good and can add a lot to the saga if molded in the right way, and placed in the proper context.

Ask yourself, how would you want your kids to see Star Wars for the first time? Riddled with Midichlorians, Sifo-Dyas, whimsical annoyances, glaring plot holes, and character inconsistencies? No. Because after you gushed over it for years and built it up in their minds how great it is, they'd probably think it's stupid, and in turn would probably think YOU'RE stupid for loving something so obviously kiddish and retarded.

That's why I think the need has arisen to make a saga that is more complete, as if George Lucas knew exactly what he was doing from square one. As if Episode I really was the first film made.

So, you're thinking, what could possibly need to be changed in ANH? Here's a few obvious one's off the top of my head, then I'm going to open this up for discussion.

-The Imperial March. (Why? It was in the other five, and it's one of the most memorable movie themes ever written.)

-Obi-Wan needs to stop lying through his teeth. (It's completely inconsistent with what we know of his character by Episode IV. Strips him of all integrity, and makes it appear he is manipulating Luke to his own ends.)

-Battle of the Heroes (the most memorable theme from Episode III, needs to reappear when Vader and Obi-Wan "meet again at last".)

-Obi-Wan and Vader's duel should be edited to pack more punch, a lot more excitement and ferocity needs to be demonstrated.

-Imperial Officers should have British accents, and not be dubbed by the same actors who voice General Dodonna and Red Leader later in the film.

Other possibilities:

-A way needs to be found to incorporate the Emperor into the film in some way. Whether through hologram or telepathy with Vader.

-Alderaan and/or Bail Organa would be nice to incorporate in some small way.

-Some of the sound effects and music may need to be updated/reworked.

Please submit any and all suggestions.

For those interested, here's a little sample to whet your appetite:

Ben's Revelation

It is a preliminary version of a portion of the scene in Ben's Hut where he tells Luke about his father. It was suggested by MTHaslett to somehow combine Obi-Wan's speeches from ANH and ROTJ and edit it so he wouldn't appear to be lying so blatantly. This is the result. Careful though, the clip is around 56mb. So, my apologies to those of you on dial-up.

More to come later.

--InfoDroid

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Great work, InfoDroid-- I don't have time to get into everything right now, but I wanted to dip a toe into this new thread and shout out my support. I think this project should finally provide a thoroughly unified Saga experience -- no reason to justify anything with off-screen sources or look "from a certain point of view."

One of the biggest lurches in the Saga is the Episode V "reveal" of Vader as Luke's dad -- how do you handle that when the first 3 movies are all about it? Just stop making Obi Wan a liar and it all works better.

There are a lot of things like this-- hopefully we can weed them all out.

Awesome. Can't wait to get started-- but I have to go.

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Yes, thanks for the support MTH. You're the brains of this outfit.

I'd also like to mention to everyone reading this that this project is not hinged on only one person's view as to what the saga should be. The three of us, MTHaslett, Commander Courage, and myself - We like to think of it as a roundtable effort, this thread an open, online collaboration. Our own little Skywalker Ranch, so to speak. That's why we affectionately refer to ourselves as "The Ranch". And although Trooperman is also a member of our clan, I believe he has chosen to abstain from the OT portion of this project due to deeply personal beliefs that episodes IV-VI should never be touched.

So, we'd like to encourage everyone to discuss what you think should stay and what should go in terms of the broader saga narrative. All ideas that fit within the above guidelines are welcome.

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Sacrilege! Get your pitchforks waving and torches flaming.
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Just kidding

MagnoliaFan, ADigitalMan, Darth Editous and ocpmovie have already made their own versions of OT movies and TheDemonHunter and mverta are working on them, so why not you guys?
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I made this list a while ago for my own amusement; it's nice to finally be able to post it knowing I won't get stoned alone.

A NEW HOPE
-When Vader boards the Tantive IV, have the original music lead into a strong rendition of the Imperial March, and when he pauses to survey the carnage, a lighter version. The Imperial Motif theme would now be the Death Star theme, and reserved only for it.
-Eliminate shot of R5-D4 after he explodes. (Already corrected: Darth Editous)
-Music change: In Obi-Wan’s house, when Vader is mentioned, the low, slow, ominous version of the Imperial March.
-Dialogue change: “I wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn’t allow it.”
-Re-rotoscoping Anakin’s lightsaber to match PT special effects.
-Removing some of the more ridiculous SE aspects of Mos Eisley.
-Wolfman back in instead of goofy replacement aliens.
-I don’t know if it’s possible to alter the shot of Ponda Boba’s arm so there is no blood, but if there is that is a must.
-Han shoots first.
-No Jabba scene.
-Re-rotoscoping Luke using Anakin's saber on the Falcon.
-Eliminate Vader's gesture when there’s no line when he’s talking to Tarkin. (Already corrected: Darth Editous)
-Insert faint Imperial March when Vader is walking through the Death Star halls.
-The Duel: Re-rotoscoping the lightsaber when necessary (activation, cores, etc.). Music change: When they first confront each other, some low, omnnous music. This transitions into Battle of the Heroes when the duel begins. The Force theme plays during Obi-Wan's "You can't win Darth..." General re-editing: Cut the really slow part where they’re stumbling around stabbing at each other. Move Vader’s “you should not have come back” to later in the duel, as that shot needs to be reversed ; Vader’s chest plate is backwards. This spreads out the dialogue too. The music of the Order 66 in RotS plays over Obi-Wan's death and their escape instead of Princess Leia’s Theme. There's a very cool re-edit of the duel I saw that uses these muscial cues. I saved it and I'll upload it for your viewing pleasure later.
-Obi-Wan’s death: Face added to robe in final shot. (Already corrected: Darth Editous)
-Update the graphics on the Death Star. (Already corrected: Darth Editous)
-We can discuss incorporating Palpatine and Bail into the movie. Before I thought there was not way to accomplish that in a fan edit but techniques are getting to a point where it just might be possible.
-If we find it impossible to insert Palpatine in any other way, ADigitalMan’s easter egg after the end credits is a must, and might work regardless.

So there's my general outline for ANH. This doesn't address any of the newest suggestions such as Obi-Wan telling Luke the real truth and all that, but it's a start.
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And a very good start, CC! You've already addressed a few things I haven't even thought of yet, namely the Ponda Baba thing. The Wolfman... Great idea. I'm already using the Darth Editous version as my source for the visuals, so all the major and minor things he fixed will stay fixed, and he's done a brilliant job. I only hope he doesn't mind us using it as a foundation.

All of Obi-Wan's inconsistent dialogue about Uncle Owen is out.

I'll be working on the duel next. So far, my ideas for it have been very much along the lines of what you just posted, with a few exceptions in the choice of music cues, you'll see what I mean when you watch the clip. I've found that "Anakin vs. Obi-Wan" from ROTS by itself adds a new dynamic to the entire sequence, from Han running through the blast door, all the way to the Falcon's escape from the Death Star's landing bay. I would definitely like to see this clip you have though, as I might be persuaded to change my mind.

Jabba and Boba Fett are certainly out. I hope MTH agrees with that one too.

A lot of the technical work, like intricate effects shots, the Ponda Baba thing, and things like rotoscoping lightsabers and so forth is somewhat beyond my capacity at this point. I agree they need to be changed. But, maybe it would be possible to outsource the work on those particular shots to a willing person who is a little more experienced in that area of expertise.

EDIT:

OKAY, IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE OBI-WAN TELL LUKE THE TRUTH IN ANH THEN HOW ARE YOU GOING TO CHANGE VADER'S REVOLATION TO LUKE IN ESB ???


We haven't discussed it in too much detail yet, but it might be something to the effect of "No, OBI-WAN killed your father." But, it hasn't been decided yet. We might cut it so there's no revelation at all. There won't really be a need for any revelation. Luke is defeated and cornered. Vader tries to convert him to the Dark Side. Luke chooses suicide. There is no ROTJ.

Kidding.

But, don't worry. It'll be good, whatever it is. I'd actually like to pass the ball to MTHaslett on that question, as I think he's the one with the whole grand scheme in his head for that particular part of the story.

--InfoDroid

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I'd like to second PSYCHO_DAYV's question.
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MTHaslett wrote in a different thread:

Okay-- first I want to make clear these changes are only to make ANH fit better into the Saga. Personally the first Star Wars movie is the best, the only one that stands on its own, flawlessly and magically. ESB is nice, but it doesn't end and we all know how that turned out ;-P

But to turn this into a Saga that one enjoys best in a 1,2,3,4,5,6 fashion, some sacred stuff will go if I have my way-- because the 1977 movie was the adventure of Luke Skywalker, but then it became "A New Hope" -- Episode IV in the adventures of Anakin Skywalker.

To embrace the Saga, I'd want more context-- I'd want to see what's the Emperor up to? Since this is our first chance to see Darth Vader in action, I'd tweak things to emphasize this point. I'd emphasize things that reveal Anakin inside the suit-- choices that would once make Anakin cringe now fill his life. I'd show some of Alderann to up the stakes of its destruction...

But the biggest change, and the biggest issue heading into the OT, regards the issue that Vader is Luke's Dad. As it stands, Obi Wan chooses to lie to Luke completely and basically set Luke up for a gigantic fall for no good reason. The only way this makes sense is if we can be kept in the dark about Vader's identity-- but now that's impossible. It's not even desirable or necessary-- make the change that redeems Obi Wan and makes him honorable again: have Ben tell Luke that Vader is his father.

It means manipulating the scene where he gives Luke the lightsaber. Have Ben explain that Anakin was a great Jedi and a good man, but that he was seduced by the Dark Side as sometimes happens. Those were harsh times and choices had to be made, so Luke was hidden from his father and Uncle Owen doesn't want Luke to know the truth. But now Princess Leia and the Rebellion need Luke.

Luke's reaction would be to join Ben more quickly, but on his trip to say goodbye to Owen, he finds them dead. His reactions throughout the rest of the movie are already, with minor adjustments, appropriate to acommodate this change.

And man, does it charge the rest of the movie up knowing that Luke already knows Vader's identity. It necessitates tweaks throughout, but not all that much.

Then, in "Empire Strikes Back," the adjustment needs to be made setting up Luke for the big reveal: that Obi Wan is the one who basically killed Anakin. Obi Wan didn't mention this. He lied! Vader doesn't want to kill Luke-- Luke can join him and rule the Galaxy! Defeated, and without options, Luke chooses suicide -- only to be rescued.

Then things carry on-- adjusting for these fixes as they go. (Along with a LOT more when we get to the crap-fest at Jabba's palace and the over-doing it with the Ewoks).

I realize this sounds drastic-- but it sure fixes things for me. Especially as regards fitting ANH into the Saga. In this draft, Obi Wan becomes as honorable as he seemed when the first movie was all there was.

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I can't say I'm entirely for the idea, but the clip that was posted was very interestingly done and I think it would be very neat to watch the movie in this way. The only thing that stood out to me about the clip were the significant differences of Alec Guiness' performances from ANH and ROTJ, but save that, it was very cool.

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Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.

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Hey, InfoDroid! I'm so glad to see a new thread for this project- it certainly deserves one. I haven't been able to download your clip but will try to do so (Rapidshare is slow).

". And although Trooperman is also a member of our clan, I believe he has chosen to abstain from the OT portion of this project due to deeply personal beliefs that episodes IV-VI should never be touched.

Whoa, wait a second! If this will be the official OT to go along with the new prequels, then I'll definitely contribute to it! You’ve talked me into that one. My only issue would be editing Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back myself. Like I've said, I may eventually tackle Return of the Jedi. But it's WONDERFUL that you're taking the initiative to do this. For the first time, I see a complete, fan-created Star Wars saga being finished with the release of Episode III in 2007, if all goes well. I CAN’T WAIT to see it all!!!

Now, as far as “A New Hope” goes, the two immediate things that I’d like to see in the project (off the top of my head) are 1. Basing this on Tellan’s edit. Why? He’s color-corrected the awful 2004 DVD of this, and it’d be a shame to just take it right from the official DVD and have the same problems all over again. Second, I’d like you to use the restored DVD quality logos that I’m using for the prequels (most of which you’ve sent me to begin with). When I finish the timing (and receive the fox logo from Alien), I’ll get the whole thing to you so that this opening is consistent.

I’m sure I’ll have more to say on this later; however, I'm very busy now and I just wanted to tell you how happy I am that you and CC and MTH are all starting to pool your resources to create a final product that will come about much sooner than it would've otherwise. Thank you.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Originally posted by: Trooperman
Whoa, wait a second! If this will be the official OT to go along with the new prequels, then I'll definitely contribute to it! You’ve talked me into that one.

YES! I knew we could coax you into it! lol

Now, as far as “A New Hope” goes, the two immediate things that I’d like to see in the project (off the top of my head) are 1. Basing this on Tellan’s edit. Why? He’s color-corrected the awful 2004 DVD of this, and it’d be a shame to just take it right from the official DVD and have the same problems all over again.


I've been using Darth Editous' version as a base. I've never heard of "Tellan". I guess I need to locate a copy of his and check it out.

Second, I’d like you to use the restored DVD quality logos that I’m using for the prequels (most of which you’ve sent me to begin with). When I finish the timing (and receive the fox logo from Alien), I’ll get the whole thing to you so that this opening is consistent.


Definitely! I had intended that from the get-go. I'm just so glad you're onboard with us!

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Originally posted by: ReverendBeastly
I can't say I'm entirely for the idea, but the clip that was posted was very interestingly done and I think it would be very neat to watch the movie in this way. The only thing that stood out to me about the clip were the significant differences of Alec Guiness' performances from ANH and ROTJ, but save that, it was very cool.


Well, if you're talking about "the echo", I think that can be explained away as Obi-Wan thinking back to the past. I was careful to only use the ROTJ voiceover during a flashback, and the ANH scene exclusively when you're looking at Ben and Luke. I actually think there are certain parts that, to me, turned out surprisingly seamless. Like "Anakin was a good friend... And a cunning warrior." That's my favorite cut.

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The clip was a little out of synch, but truely amazing. The one thing I'd change is i'd maybe add some of Anakin flying in Eposide 3 instead of so much of the pod race. I will watch the career of this thread with great interest.
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Yeah, I did kind of figure that you justified the echo in that way, and it works in that way. What I was more referring to was the six years of age added onto his voice between the filming of the two scenes. I might have just been hearing things, though. I am looking forward to the final result, either way. It's definitely one of the more creative OT projects that's ever been tackled.

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Where is this clip posted at? Can someone post the link? I'm very interested in seeing this.
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Ok, I've reviewed the file. First off I must say you did an excellent job of picking scenes and accompanying music for the flashbacks, and even tried to work in an explanation for Obi-Wan's ghostly voice. However, seeing this test reinforces my idea that is is not the way to go. Maybe if we had Alec and Mark to refilm things for us here and there, but (to me at least) it's not looking like it's going to work. It's an interesting experiment, but think about that in the context of the film; flashbacks are NOT Star Wars style. And then there's the rest of the saga to consider; Luke's further discussions about Vader with Obi-Wan and Yoda, Luke first confronting Vader. I just don't see this scenario working. If only Lucas would release the deleted/extended scenes of the OT; the conversation between Luke and Obi-Wan in RotJ has much more to it. A key line there would be, "I was going to tell you when you completed your training," along with several others that might make Obi-Wan's "explanation" a lot more plausable.

EDIT: Here's the version of the duel I was talking about. I DID NOT DO THIS; This is from Darth Qui-Gon at TF.N. The picture quality is poor (from a SE VHS), and events shortened a little too much for my liking, but the music choices and transitions are excellent: http://rapidshare.de/files/6796739/Anakin_vs._Obi-Wan_ANH_edit.mpg.html
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Originally posted by: Commander Courage
If only Lucas would release the deleted/extended scene of the OT; I'm fairly certain the conversation between Luke and Obi-Wan in RotJ has much more to it. A key line there would be, "I was going to tell you when you completed your training," along with several other lines that might make Obi-Wan's "explanation" a lot more plausable.


Yeah, the ROTJ novelization reveals that there is quite a bit more than this in Obi-Wan's speech.
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Oh god and I thought I was having fun in the SOTDS thread. I couldn't help but jump in and start talking about how to make Return of the Jedi a serious film.

-I think the first thing to do would be to re-establish han solo as the character he is in 4 and 5 which is, a badass. This may be a little tough, ole harrison ford supplied us with a lot of goofy faces and silly deliveries. But I think that the proper editting could sharpen him into the han that doesn't talk his head off.

-Perhaps some of jabbas palace could be clipped (although it is a real favorite star wars adventure of mine).

-I think one element that could use an overhaul would be the ewoks. How would we make them more serious? Perhaps if we took away the little chirps and woots and added some growls or creepy sounds would be a nice replacement. Although I love the music of the old trilogy, I could be up for giving the ewoks a different theme. THe original , like the ewoks themselves, is just kind of playful sounding and circus-y. Give them a warrior theme like Connan the barbarian or perhaps a cool track off of the Shadows of the Empire soundtrack. I mentioned in another thread that if you had the effects to add blinking eyelids to them it would flesh out those costumes a little more. But there is potential to make the ewoks redeemable in my book with some "changes" here and there. Another neat idea would be to add some clips from the ewok movies and throw some widescreen bars on them to add more action scenes with the ewoks. I think it was the Battle for endor movie that showed ewoks fighting with blasters, Thats what we need!

So anyway, thought we could have some discussion on how to fix ROTJ, i've actually been thinking of this before the prequels came out. Oh and of course there's the idea that Magnolia fan had about adding the "birth of vader" scene from episode 3 as a flashback while vader and luke are talking on the walkway on endor. Superb idea. Any thoughts, suggestions?


I know this thread is suppose to be about a different ANH version, but since we're trying to catalouge ideas for a "saga" I thought this would be appropriate.

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You've come to the right place, darthpreston. This thread will eventually serve as a place for discusion of all the OT.

I have some extensive edits in mind for RotJ as well. In addition to all the obvious concerns with the Ewoks is their apparent lack of motivation. What makes them want to join the fight against the Empire? The Radio Drama, which I think is in fact superior to the movie if for no other reason than addressing many of its unanswered questions, has C-3P0 explain in detail the Ewoks' decision making process. Anthony Daniels of course does the dialogue, so it would be an easy edit. I laid it all out in a word document which I seem to have misplaced (go figure that one), but still have all the key lines from the RD I wanted to use written down. When I get a chance I'll reconstruct my script and post the exerpts in question. It's also interesting to note that unlike in the film, the residents of the forest moon are called Ewoks by name in the radio drama.

Replacing their childlike theme and cute sound effects might also go a long way into making the Ewoks as reasonable an adversary you can expect out of a two foot tall teddy bear. I've never seen the Ewok movies, but if their footage can enhance the Battle of Endor I say use it. TM knows a lot about using fullscreen footage for widescreen purposes. And I had never noticed the Ewoks NEVER BLINK. That IS creepy.
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Good news! With a little more effort I found my altered RotJ script incorporating dialogue from the Radio Drama. Here are the scenes I suggested be altered, the new dialogue being in bold:

Too late. The Wookiee has already pulled the animal from the
stake. SPROOING! The group finds itself hanging upside down in an
Ewok net, suspended high above the clearing. Artoo lets out a
wild series of beeps and whistles, and Chewie howls his regret.
Their bodies are a jumble in the net. Han removes a Wookiee paw
from his mouth.

THREEPIO
One would suppose a 220 year old Wookie to have learned a measure of self-restraint.

HAN
What are you telling them?

THREEPIO
Hello, I think... I could be mistaken.
These creatures seem to call themselves Ewoks. And I do believe they think I am some sort of god.

Suddenly all activity stops as LOGRAY, the tribal Medicine Man,
comes out of the big hut. He examines the captives carefully,
goes to join Threepio, whose throne has been placed on an
elevated platform. A larger, gray-haired Ewok, CHIEF CHIRPA, is
examining Luke's lightsaber with great curiosity.

THREEPIO
As I understand it Master Luke, the forest has been invaded by Stormtroopers. The Ewoks presume you to be enemies.


HAN
What did he say?

THREEPIO
I'm rather embarrassed, General Solo, but it
appears you are to be the main course at a
banquet in my honor.

Shot of ARTOO.

THREEPIO
And you Artoo are to be reclaimed for useable scrap.

Another Shot of Artoo-he is displeased.


At the end of it, the Chief, Logray, and the elders confer, then
nod in agreement. The Chief stands and makes a pronouncement.

LUKE (OS)
What are they saying Threepio?

THREEPIO
The Ewoks want to know where they fit into the story Sir. Myth and life are strongly intertwined with Ewoks. If I make them part of the tale, it will in their minds make them part of the Rebellion”

LUKE (OS)
Do it Threepio.

Threepio says more Ewokese, including them in the story.

That strengthens the Ewoks characterwise I think, giving them reasons for their actions. Also I thought it would be nice to throw that reference to Chewbacca's age in there just for the fun of it.
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Originally posted by: Commander Courage
Ok, I've reviewed the file. First off I must say you did an excellent job of picking scenes and accompanying music for the flashbacks, and even tried to work in an explanation for Obi-Wan's ghostly voice. However, seeing this test reinforces my idea that is is not the way to go. Maybe if we had Alec and Mark to refilm things for us here and there, but (to me at least) it's not looking like it's going to work. It's an interesting experiment, but think about that in the context of the film; flashbacks are NOT Star Wars style. And then there's the rest of the saga to consider; Luke's further discussions about Vader with Obi-Wan and Yoda, Luke first confronting Vader. I just don't see this scenario working. If only Lucas would release the deleted/extended scenes of the OT; the conversation between Luke and Obi-Wan in RotJ has much more to it. A key line there would be, "I was going to tell you when you completed your training," along with several others that might make Obi-Wan's "explanation" a lot more plausable.

EDIT: Here's the version of the duel I was talking about. I DID NOT DO THIS; This is from Darth Qui-Gon at TF.N. The picture quality is poor (from a SE VHS), and events shortened a little too much for my liking, but the music choices and transitions are excellent: http://rapidshare.de/files/6796739/Anakin_vs._Obi-Wan_ANH_edit.mpg.html


Rats, because I had the opposite reaction. The issue to me was exactly HOW to make this clip from InfoDroid into a more Star Wars-like sequence because all the other issues you bring up only get better with this change. The next discussion about Vader with Obi Wan and Yoda is in ROTJ -- those scenes improve by being trimmed. Luke doesn't need to say "I can't fight my father" and other lines which are forced and awkward because he didn't just learn his father's identity.

Instead, "Ben, why didn't you tell me" refers to why Ben didn't admit he killed Anakin. Not that it will be easy to pull off, but it's a much smoother arc as Luke decides to go redeem his father. He has now had the time to hope for redeeming his father since he first learned the truth. He tried destroying him-- now he'll try something else.

Flashbacks haven't appeared in Star Wars -- but if they ever did, it would be in Episode IV -- the one that covers a 20 year gap. And Episode III (and SOTD) have Flash-FORWARDS. I believe a similar visual treatment for this Ben's Hut sequence could make it more organic.

As to the edit itself -- I love the one underpinning change: Obi Wan does not lie.

To massage it, I would comment that the flashbacks cover too much material -- Luke shouldn't seem to see/hear that Obi Wan killed Anakin. I think the visuals need Vader. I wish there were less flashback -- I'll have to look at the material more closely to see what I can come up with.

I agree in concept with Commander Courage -- if this scene were done perfectly, there wouldn't be any flashback. But I guess we better know exactly what issues this scene creates, and how to solve them ALL, before you go a whole lot farther, InfoDroid.

That'll take us into discussing ROTJ with a lot of detail -- I love the ideas that are mentioned so far (although, I personally dislike the Jabba's palace sequence greatly. I'd want to massage it until it made some kind of sense because as it stands-- it makes Luke, Lando, Leia and Chewie into morons. What kind of plan did they come up with? ("Then, after Jabba catches you and makes you into his sex-slave, you choke him with your chain. Then get to the deck and I'll swing over and pick you up." Gah.)

But what a way to start off a thread, huh?

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Originally posted by: Commander Courage

EDIT: Here's the version of the duel I was talking about. I DID NOT DO THIS; This is from Darth Qui-Gon at TF.N. The picture quality is poor (from a SE VHS), and events shortened a little too much for my liking, but the music choices and transitions are excellent: http://rapidshare.de/files/6796739/Anakin_vs._Obi-Wan_ANH_edit.mpg.html



I. love. that. idea!
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My biggest problem with the idea of Obi-Wan telling Luke exactly what happened to Anakin in the very beginning is Luke's reaction. He just stares at Old Ben dumbfounded as he reveals that his father's not really dead, but an agent of evil responsible for the extermination of the Jedi order. And oh, by the way, here's his lightsaber: you should have it. I appreciate what we're trying to do here with Obi-Wan's character, but it's just not going go smoothly, and will create more problems than it solves. I had hoped at the end of RotS that Yoda would tell Obi-Wan, "Tell the children of their true parantage we must not, Obi-Wan. Better they believe a different truth than the terrible one that is. Confuse them it will, and lead them on a path to darkness. Until the time is right, unaware they must be." Or something along those lines to get the point across that Yoda and Obi-Wan had their reasons for keeping Anakin=Vader a secret, and planned to reveal it to them at the proper time. Seriously, if you were Obi-Wan, and you want Luke to join you, but he asks about his father. What do you tell him, that his old man was a good friend and student of his before turning evil, betraying the Jedi, and become the second evilist man in the galaxy? Yeah, that would go over well.