From that point of view, the shift to Luke in Episode IV is undermined -- Episode IV is no longer "ACT I" in any way. It's more like Act II of the saga.
I don't agree that waiting until Episode V for Luke to find out something we already know is a good enough reason to sacrifice Obi Wan and Yoda's integrity. The BIG PICTURE is exactly what I'm trying to protect -- Big Picture character arcs should take higher priority over protecting any story beat -- no matter how beloved. If we have a beat that violates a character's arc then it should go. The idea that they are "protecting" Luke from the truth is just nonsense. Protecting him from what? Would he be less likely to want to help Leia and the Rebellion if Obi Wan treated him like an adult and told the truth? Of course not. It is not honorable, serves no purpose, and makes Obi Wan and Yoda chumps when their little lie nearly destroys the Galaxy. It was a necessary evil in the design of the "Reveal" as done in 1980. But it is not central to the Saga and I'd like to see it go.
One again, I'd disagree. It's not a matter of a lack of integrity really. Obi-Wan learned from experience that teaching the ways of the Force to someone who was not raised by the Jedi Order has many pitfalls and must be taken slowly. Feeding him all the info that he eventually discovers in the OT could make Luke very emotionally disturbed, questioning whether he is destined to follow in his father's footsteps and turn to the Dark Side. That doubt would lead to fear of becoming Vader. That fear could either lead him down the path to becoming the next apprentice or to staying on the sidelines, afraid to act because of his fearsof his own destiny.
Obi-Wan already lost Anakin, so I think he'd want to bring Luke along more slowly. Why heap on the baggage of his father being the second greatest evil known in the galaxy? It doesn't have to be a deal where he tells Luke that Vader killed Anakin or that Vader is Anakin. The omission of Anakin's fate in any form would simplify Luke's path, I believe. One step at a time on this path.
The Parallels between the OT and PT Episodes are mere echoes -- thematic notions. They are not structural and fall apart at any high-resolution examination. Luke at the tree can hardly be equated with Anakin ACTUALLY killing Sandpeople babies in any serious way. These echoes or parallels will still be there anyway. But Luke's vulnerablity to the Dark Side would now come from his inexperience and from the sheer power available to him from the Force. It shouldn't come from exposing a lie told to him by Obi Wan. Preserving anything like that at the expense of character is what I consider getting caught up in details and missing the big picture.
I think these thematic parallels are the biggest selling point for combining the OT and PT in any way though. Showing how each character has similar failings and successes, weaknesses and strengths, but they turn out as completely different people in the end. Luke's strength, and the fact that he's really not exactly like his father, allows for Anakin's redemption. Until ROTJ, there isn't much redemption to be seen for Vader, so I've never really understood how anyone could claim that the OT is now more about Anakin's redemption.
I believe now as I did when ROTJ was first released that the OT was about how we don't have to inherit the sins of our fathers. We don't have to follow in their footsteps. Their destiny is not ours, no matter how similar our lives may be along the way.
I love the "migraine maker" and can't wait for that edit. I know we have a lot of talented and insightful minds posting here. There are many edits that will preserve the Obi Wan lie and attempt to justify it and leave in Luke's surprise discovery of his parentage. I hope that we can find a different way with this one.
Thanks! Since I'm such a novice with the software required, the ideas may wind up better than the actual execution, but I'm always happy to hear someone is looking forward to the stuff I'm working on. This is a long road for me, though hopefully not so long as the path Trooperman has taken with the masterful SOTDS.
A big reason for me comes during ROTJ. When you look at that movie on its own, it's a structural mess. It has wide gaps in any Main Character story, created by its various sub-plots. Luke's story lacks the cohesive feel of the first two movies. Han's not a Main Character in his own sub-plot anymore as it gets picked up from Leia's point of view. Lando gets a sub-plot that has very little character development. Vader suddenly acts as if he mourns the loss of his life as "Anakin" -- a past we didn't even know existed and which makes him very different from the villain he was for the first two films.
This last part was the weakest part for me when the movie came out. The Star Wars films so far had been excellent in great part because Vader was so bad -- strangling people and cutting down Jedi. It was hard for me to accept a Vader who said things like "It's too late for me, my son."
But...
With the PT -- all that material took life. Suddenly ROTJ had a Main Character -- VADER/ANAKIN. His story is not interrupted. He appears in the first scene and goes through a clear dramatic arc-- the completion of which brings a cap to the whole Saga. We were not aware that he could be a Main Character in the first release because we had no way of getting into his head. But watching it "in order," there's no way to stay OUT of his head. All those close ups and pauses as he leads Luke to the Emperor are now full of meaning -- Anakin, deep inside, is having second thoughts. That didn't work for Darth Vader -- but it works fine for Anakin Skywalker.
I can understand this to some degree, but I think that ROTJ sums up the strengths of Luke and how his success can inspire Anakin to turn back from the Dark Side, more than it's about Anakin finding the strength within himself. Speaking as a big-time Vader fan, I believed at first there was a lot of background that could have been shown, but I remembered that the OT had been mostly about Luke for the first two movies for a good reason, and so Vader's story would have to wait for another day. When the PT came out, that was Vader's tragic story.
All of that having been said, I believe that ROTJ is a big mess no matter how you look at it. Everything before the climactic battle on the DS II is pretty superfluous. Too much time spent getting to the meat of the story, I think. Just my opinion though.
So the Saga has a clear "intended" arc. But each Episode has its own issues screwing things up.
Each episode has flaws when viewed as a whole, I agree, and that's what these projects will hopefully correct, though you and I will respectfully disagree on how it can be corrected.
Episode I has no Anakin story -- the kid just blunders his way into the Naboo battle and wins the day without a hint of awareness of anything important happening around him.
I wouldn't say there's no Anakin story. Yes, he does seem to get by on blind luck a lot, but as Obi-Wan says in ANH, "In my experience, there's no such thing as luck." This is where we begin to see Anakin's potential, just as we later see the same potential from Luke in ANH.
Episode II has a truly unlikable Anakin going through the motions of a crisis without generating any real emotion.
The only significance to Anakin's story is we see the potential for a fall in this one, with his lack of patience, his anger, and his arrogance. It was poorly executed though, no matter how you look at it, I agree.
Episode III has a great sense of emotion and completion to Anakin's fall (despite various opinions about the details). But it completes a story that wasn't working and which doesn't really mesh with...
It's like GL wanted to compensate for the lack of energy and emotion of I & II and wow did he ever pack 3 movies' worth into one. Once again though, the details leave some people feeling as the execution is lacking in ways.
Episode IV -- a nearly perfect movie, which in itself is violated by the continuity grafted onto it by the sequels. Suddenly and without any sensible motivation, Obi Wan lies to Luke about Anakin's life. Anakin, meanwhile, murders his old mentor and demonstrates in every way possible that there is no good left in him.
This is why I feel the OT remains Luke's story, not just about Vader's redemption.
Episode V -- Obi Wan pulls Yoda into his lie and refuses to let it be exposed even as Luke rushes off into battle with Vader. Then Vader demonstrates in every way possible that no good remains in him.
Once again, seeing Vader as such a force of evil, with few redeeming qualities,leaves this movie once again as Luke's.
Episode VI -- Luke starts talking about all the good he sees in Vader. Then, without half-trying, he gets Vader to all but admit it. Obi Wan tries to excuse his own lies and Luke intuitively brings about Vader's redemption without the benefit of anyone's tips, help or guidance. He just concocts a whole plan on the battlefields of Endor and jogs off to go redeem his dad. Lucky for the Rebellion, it works perfectly.
ROTJ is by far the weakest resolution for a six-movie saga possible as it stands now, I think we can agree. There's too many coincidences, too little planning, and too little continuity with the flow of the other movies in the saga, either OT or PT. The end is what was important though. Luke helping Anakin find the strength to redeem himself and destroy the Empire he helped create.
These Episodes could hold together nicely if they really were the fall and rise of Anakin Skywalker -- a gifted Jedi who was seduced by the Dark Side only to be redeemed by the power that his son finds in using the good side of the Force.
That story's just not really there... yet.
I believe I've already stated my view on the saga, so once again, I'll say we may have to agree to disagree.
InfoDroid:
Your clip of Ben's Hut was fantastic and is in some ways reminscent of what I'd like to show when I get to ROTJ in my project. I agree with MTH that showing the mechanical hand was pure genius at that point. Too cool to be believed. I may not agree with all the content, but the way you put it all together was very well done.
I also like the concepts of what was shown in the duel clip you showed us. Very interesting indeed, and it does help to tie things together thematically. It may have been a bit rough, but the ideas show through very well and make things more interesting, I think.
As for your alternate take on the Ben's Hut scene, I believe that a lot of that could go into showing the conservative approach I had suggested. Doesn't have to be a radical departure from your take there at all.
This one would be structured differently, to begin straight away with Leia's message already beginning when we're seeing the exterior of Ben's Hut.
We cut inside and listen to the message with Ben and Luke.
When Leia is finished, Luke turns to Ben and asks "You fought in the Clone Wars?"
This is damn near perfect, I think. A great setup for the rest of the conservative take of the scene.
Which provokes the story of Anakin.