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The Worst Scene/Sequence in Any Star Wars Film — Page 11

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The contention is dialogue in a Star Wars movie shouldn’t feel dated by earth standards. It took place in a galaxy far far away.

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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DominicCobb said:

ChainsawAsh said:

SilverWook said:

Is it really any worse than Leia saying Tarkin smells, to his face?

I think the difference here is Leia using language/phrasing that is less contemporary than what Poe uses.

Is “Hugs” especially contemporary though? I’m not sure I understand.

Nothing to do with the “hugs” thing. It’s the way the dialogue is written overall, and if you don’t see it, I’m not sure what to say. “Okay, I’ll hold” sounds like modern, quippy humor, while “I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board” could be from whenever and not feel out of place.

I don’t, however, get this feeling from the “You talk first” bit at all. I’ve never understood the issue people have with that one.

a trolling bantha

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CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

The contention is dialogue in a Star Wars movie shouldn’t feel dated by earth standards. It took place in a galaxy far far away.

I understand that concept I just don’t understand how this dialogue is especially contemporary.

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And yet characters talking like they’re in a Shakespeare play in the prequels make perfect sense. 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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DominicCobb said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

The contention is dialogue in a Star Wars movie shouldn’t feel dated by earth standards. It took place in a galaxy far far away.

I understand that concept I just don’t understand how this dialogue is especially contemporary.

Probably because you’re young and don’t remember a time before it was normal to tell someone you were willing to hold.

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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 (Edited)

I don’t see how you can’t see it, really, so it seems like we’re at an impasse on that one. “Okay, I’ll hold,” "skinny guy, kinda pasty, “I can hear you, can you hear me?” and “…about his mother” all scream “2010s snarky humor” to me.

a trolling bantha

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ChainsawAsh said:

DominicCobb said:

ChainsawAsh said:

SilverWook said:

Is it really any worse than Leia saying Tarkin smells, to his face?

I think the difference here is Leia using language/phrasing that is less contemporary than what Poe uses.

Is “Hugs” especially contemporary though? I’m not sure I understand.

Nothing to do with the “hugs” thing. It’s the way the dialogue is written overall, and if you don’t see it, I’m not sure what to say. “Okay, I’ll hold” sounds like modern, quippy humor, while “I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board” could be from whenever and not feel out of place.

I don’t know, maybe it depends on your definition of quips. In my mind “modern quipy dialogue” is the all of avengers tossing out one liners every other line. I think people conflate that kind of humor with what’s going on in TLJ, which is a film with a lot of humor, sure, but just because it’s a lot of humor doesn’t mean it’s the same kind of humor.

The “foul stench” is a weird comparison is because it’s a very theatrical insult, in keeping with the haughty tone Leia has in that scene. Elsewhere in the film she and other characters have more casual “quips” that I think are comparable to what’s in TLJ. Honestly again it depends on your definition but I’m not even sure Poe saying “I’ll hold” is a quip? It’s a funny line but it’s not exactly him making a joke, he’s fucking with Hux and pretending he can’t hear.

I mean I’m getting into the minutiae of it but maybe the more offputting aspect of it is the way the scene plays out (Domhnall’s hammy reaction) and it’s length.

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CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

DominicCobb said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

The contention is dialogue in a Star Wars movie shouldn’t feel dated by earth standards. It took place in a galaxy far far away.

I understand that concept I just don’t understand how this dialogue is especially contemporary.

Probably because you’re young and don’t remember a time before it was normal to tell someone you were willing to hold.

Are we supposed to pretend that Star Wars doesn’t exist in a universe with technology similar to that of phones? Is it really so out of place that the concept of “holding” feels too modern? Weird complaint to me honestly.

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ChainsawAsh said:

I don’t see how you can’t see it, really, so it seems like we’re at an impasse on that one. “Okay, I’ll hold,” "skinny guy, kinda pasty, “I can hear you, can you hear me?” and “…about his mother” all scream “2010s snarky humor” to me.

Yes! “2010s snarky humor” is exactly what I was getting at!

The Person in Question

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ChainsawAsh said:

I don’t see how you can’t see it, really, so it seems like we’re at an impasse on that one. “Okay, I’ll hold,” "skinny guy, kinda pasty, “I can hear you, can you hear me?” and “…about his mother” all scream “2010s snarky humor” to me.

I don’t understand what’s specifically 2010s about those lines no. Didn’t Shakespeare write “your mother” jokes?

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moviefreakedmind said:

ChainsawAsh said:

I don’t see how you can’t see it, really, so it seems like we’re at an impasse on that one. “Okay, I’ll hold,” "skinny guy, kinda pasty, “I can hear you, can you hear me?” and “…about his mother” all scream “2010s snarky humor” to me.

Yes! “2010s snarky humor” is exactly what I was getting at!

Snarky humor is definitely very popular right now, no doubt, but it’s not exclusive to the 2010s by any means. I don’t see how it’s un-Star Wars to have a character who uses snarky humor. He certainly isn’t the first.

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DominicCobb said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

DominicCobb said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

The contention is dialogue in a Star Wars movie shouldn’t feel dated by earth standards. It took place in a galaxy far far away.

I understand that concept I just don’t understand how this dialogue is especially contemporary.

Probably because you’re young and don’t remember a time before it was normal to tell someone you were willing to hold.

Is it really so out of place that the concept of “holding” feels too modern?

Yeah. That’s a huge part of it. It’s also the overall timing and back-and-forth of the scene as a whole, but this is, whether you think it’s a dumb complaint or not, the single biggest problem I have with it (which extends to “…about his mother”).

As another example, I loathe “Droid please!” in TFA for very similar reasons (the phrasing is too contemporary so it takes me out of the galaxy far, far away). And “Boyfriend? Cute boyfriend?”

Mind you, this is coming from someone who likes TFA a lot and mostly enjoys TLJ, so these things don’t ruin the movies for me, but they still stick out like sore thumbs and I fuckin’ hate 'em.

But again, I don’t have the same issue with “Who talks first?” because that doesn’t feel “anachronistic” to me in the way the “I’ll hold” part does.

a trolling bantha

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I mean I can’t tell it’s not a problem just as much as you can’t tell me it is. I think we can agree it’s not “worst ever” territory though.

An aside, the “droid please” complaints remind me, I found a very similar phrase (“droid shut up,” spoken by Lando) in a SW comic from 1980 recently. Just something to think about (and the way Boyega delivers the line is nothing like how the phrase it’s supposedly pulled from is usually delivered).

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DominicCobb said:

ChainsawAsh said:

DominicCobb said:

ChainsawAsh said:

SilverWook said:

Is it really any worse than Leia saying Tarkin smells, to his face?

I think the difference here is Leia using language/phrasing that is less contemporary than what Poe uses.

Is “Hugs” especially contemporary though? I’m not sure I understand.

Nothing to do with the “hugs” thing. It’s the way the dialogue is written overall, and if you don’t see it, I’m not sure what to say. “Okay, I’ll hold” sounds like modern, quippy humor, while “I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board” could be from whenever and not feel out of place.

I don’t know, maybe it depends on your definition of quips. In my mind “modern quipy dialogue” is the all of avengers tossing out one liners every other line. I think people conflate that kind of humor with what’s going on in TLJ, which is a film with a lot of humor, sure, but just because it’s a lot of humor doesn’t mean it’s the same kind of humor.

The “foul stench” is a weird comparison is because it’s a very theatrical insult, in keeping with the haughty tone Leia has in that scene. Elsewhere in the film she and other characters have more casual “quips” that I think are comparable to what’s in TLJ. Honestly again it depends on your definition but I’m not even sure Poe saying “I’ll hold” is a quip? It’s a funny line but it’s not exactly him making a joke, he’s fucking with Hux and pretending he can’t hear.

I mean I’m getting into the minutiae of it but maybe the more offputting aspect of it is the way the scene plays out (Domhnall’s hammy reaction) and it’s length.

I only brought it up because I recall that line being groaned about in some magazines back in the day. Not sure why that and not Luke talking about Power Converters. 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

SilverWook said:

DominicCobb said:

ChainsawAsh said:

DominicCobb said:

ChainsawAsh said:

SilverWook said:

Is it really any worse than Leia saying Tarkin smells, to his face?

I think the difference here is Leia using language/phrasing that is less contemporary than what Poe uses.

Is “Hugs” especially contemporary though? I’m not sure I understand.

Nothing to do with the “hugs” thing. It’s the way the dialogue is written overall, and if you don’t see it, I’m not sure what to say. “Okay, I’ll hold” sounds like modern, quippy humor, while “I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board” could be from whenever and not feel out of place.

I don’t know, maybe it depends on your definition of quips. In my mind “modern quipy dialogue” is the all of avengers tossing out one liners every other line. I think people conflate that kind of humor with what’s going on in TLJ, which is a film with a lot of humor, sure, but just because it’s a lot of humor doesn’t mean it’s the same kind of humor.

The “foul stench” is a weird comparison is because it’s a very theatrical insult, in keeping with the haughty tone Leia has in that scene. Elsewhere in the film she and other characters have more casual “quips” that I think are comparable to what’s in TLJ. Honestly again it depends on your definition but I’m not even sure Poe saying “I’ll hold” is a quip? It’s a funny line but it’s not exactly him making a joke, he’s fucking with Hux and pretending he can’t hear.

I mean I’m getting into the minutiae of it but maybe the more offputting aspect of it is the way the scene plays out (Domhnall’s hammy reaction) and it’s length.

I only brought it up because I recall that line being groaned about in some magazines back in the day. Not sure why that and not Luke talking about Power Converters. 😉

Probably because you’re young and don’t remember a time before power converters were a common object.

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One of the defining aspects of Star Wars is its apparent timelessness, both in its mythological themes and in its setting. It is designed to remove itself from the contemporary in order to access the universal in everyone, and this is probably why the humor is such a big point of contention for these new movies.

Comedy as a genre is notoriously difficult to sell to a wide audience because many jokes rely on the absurdity of specific things taken from contemporary culture. Poe’s jokey bit at the beginning of TLJ relies on an entire subgroup of crank call jokes, and while the joke isn’t new, it isn’t exactly ancient enough to disappear into this aforementioned universal experience. I think this is why the original trilogy rarely makes jokes, opting instead for more generalized situational humor and physical (often droid) comedy.

TL;DR Star Wars should be generally funny, but not not specifically jokey.

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NeverarGreat said:

One of the defining aspects of Star Wars is its apparent timelessness, both in its mythological themes and in its setting. It is designed to remove itself from the contemporary in order to access the universal in everyone, and this is probably why the humor is such a big point of contention for these new movies.

The first part is a given. I think what’s in question is the second part. Is the humor in the ST especially contemporary?

Comedy as a genre is notoriously difficult to sell to a wide audience because many jokes rely on the absurdity of specific things taken from contemporary culture. Poe’s jokey bit at the beginning of TLJ relies on an entire subgroup of crank call jokes, and while the joke isn’t new, it isn’t exactly ancient enough to disappear into this aforementioned universal experience. I think this is why the original trilogy rarely makes jokes, opting instead for more generalized situational humor and physical (often droid) comedy.

TL;DR Star Wars should be generally funny, but not not specifically jokey.

Bear with me here guys. I know it’s something about myself that I can tend to be contrarian, but I think there’s interesting things to be gained from a devil’s advocate perspective.

So that said, my question is does the humor of the scene rely solely on it being a contemporary cultural reference? Obviously it’s invoking crank calls, but is that really the joke? Isn’t there humor to the scene beyond that? Doesn’t the scene serve a narrative purpose beyond being a cultural reference? Poe is stalling Hux to charge up and help the Resistance escape, and the way he’s chosen to do that is by fucking with him, which I think is funny whether you’re aware of the concept of “prank calls” or not. So I’m not sure why it wouldn’t be considered situational humor.

This reminds me of a contentious joke from TFA, Han’s line about the trash compactor. People were/are mad because it’s a “meta” reference to a previous movie. But that kinda baffles me. Han was there in that trash compactor. That’s part of his life, he knows what kind of experience it’s like to be thrown in one. Why wouldn’t he suggest it? It’s an in character joke, something he would find funny too (as opposed to say Finn finding the ball Luke trained with, which Finn would not know the significance of so the moment only holds meaning from an outside audience winking perspective, or something like Obi-wan saying “you’re going to be the death of me” in AOTC).

I’m honestly curious about the response to the scene and I think it’s worth interrogating. Is it problematic because it’s too contemporary? Or is that one reason that people have latched on to for a scene that doesn’t work for them for potentially a variety of reasons? To that end, I have a question - those who don’t like the scene, did it make you laugh at all?

Honestly for me it makes me laugh, which I don’t think is nothing, even though I wouldn’t call it a perfect scene. If it doesn’t make you laugh I think that’s worth something too.

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I think crank calling existed in some form before telephones did. Something as zany as the French taunting sequence in Monty Python and The Holy Grail has a historical basis, even the catapulting of livestock over castle walls or dumping chamber pots on unwanted guests. So a form of crank calling existing in a galaxy far, far, away is something I’m perfectly chill with.

Mind you, big ass door sounded a bit out of place to me.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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The Last Jedi stops for comedic pauses, while the other films let their humor run with the story.

Like the “Reach out” gag. Both actors pause and slightly break character for the sake of a punchline.

Nothing to do about the quality of the jokes, just the style. The “Who talks first?” bit is the same, but it’s the only moment in TFA with that style, as far as I can remember.

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I think crank calling can be compared to ringing a doorbell and running away, so it isn’t an ungraspable joke to people in other eras I don’t think. But the joke, which did not make me laugh by the way, took me completely out of the movie. Not only due to its phrasing and execution, which looks and sounds like it came out of a superhero movie, but because it makes Hux look very stupid, and since I’m not sympathetic towards him or like him at this point for any reason, weakens his character in my opinion.

It also felt like it was something that TV shows like SNL would do, which just didn’t feel Star Warsy in the least. Most of the dialogue doesn’t - feels like something any director in the post-The Avengers era would try to write to be funny. The problem here is the execution. With different dialogue and a different way for lines to be delivered and the scene executed, it could work very well, like Han answering the imperial in Star Wars saying that everything’s fine works.

Not comparable to “who talks first?” but I think that it could be comparable to “Got a boyfriend? Cute boyfriend?”

Humor in Rogue One works very well though.

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Part of what makes the original trilogy so wonderful is its sincerity. Things are played as fantastical but grounded in earnest portrayals of these characters. The dialogue and pacing were unusual and somewhat stilted, having a distinct flavor. Episodes 7 does pretty well at replicating this, and it is noticeable when it breaks with that. Episode 8 does so more often (inserting sardonic jokes and quips which sound like they would fit in better in a Marvel movie) and never quite reaches the same mastery of the flavor of Star Wars dialogue.
This is all somewhat subjective, but I picked up on this during my first viewing. Worst offenders are Poe’s doing. “Big ass door” doesn’t feel like Star Wars in the least.

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Is there any dialog in the OT scripts that got changed on the set, (or ended up the cutting room floor) that would have stuck out in this way?

One point of view to take is that nobody in Star Wars is actually speaking English anyway, and we’re just hearing an imperfect translation of the original Whills text. Or maybe SW just needs it’s own profanities like Battlestar Galactica had. Big Frakkin’ door. 😉

Seriously though, is Poe’s line different in any foreign dubs?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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I don’t get it. SW is full of “anachronistic” dialogue. Especially anything Han has to say when he calls Leia “sister” in a very 70s way and references things like crop dusting.

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