The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread — Page 8

Bingowings said:

Team Adywan are removing the PT music from AR:SE last time I checked.

But the the "Here They Come" strike on the soundtrack of every current version of Return Of The Jedi would indicate a swarm of TIE fighters about to shoot up Jabba's sail barge going by your line of reasoning (I'd remove that too).

It will be an option according to this:

http://swrevisited.wordpress.com/2011/04/09/ars-details/

And honestly, I never understood what was so wrong about R2's rockets.  The only reason people don't like it, in my opininon, is because of how bad the PT is.  Someway that transfers over to every PT releated element or fx, which most of the time are as good as the OT.

Na, I'm still not keen, this is the end of the sequence, to add in R2 flying at the end of it is a bit too clunky, it would end up robbing the scene & I honestly think it would add a WTF to it.....& how would 3P0 get rescued? 

I think its fine as it is,....with the magnet, just an improvement needed on how they get picked up.

J

Artoo is basically a spaceman.

He has the tools to repair bits of the ships he works on, he has connectors to communicate with ships computers etc.

So it would make sense he would have correcting jets so he could move to the right position (like the pods in 2001).

Similarly it makes sense he could magnetise parts of himself to retrieve components and cables he is working with.

So keep the magnet, just make it Artoo with his jets pushing Threepio (he does this in the film already only without the jets).

I don't understand that hatred but it's your work not mine so I'm happy to just see what you do with it.

adywan said:

I won't be using "Battle of the Heroes" in ANH:RHD. I was going to have a selectable audio track so you could chose to have the music during the battle, or not, but i forgot about the slightly different timing in the video to have this music  mix with the original, which is why i had to slow down the cloak dropping. I think it works better without the added music.

When i did ANH:R, i wasn't planning on doing the prequels, so this was more of an addition to help join the two trilogies. But now, as the HD Revisited saga is meant to be watched as a 6 film saga, i will be preserving the Vader/ Father secret and will no longer be using the music. And i just love the way people are saying that the secret can't be preserved and that it is a bad idea, yet they have NO idea what i have planned (and only the Revisited team know the re-jigged storyline). And i will not be working with JUST the footage that is available, so anything is possible.

Cool, cool, cool!

I doubt my mind will be changed on the secret preserving topic, but, like I said before, I'd like to see it work anyway. And, no, I have no idea what's planned, but my interest is piqued. Bring on PT:R! 

I'd never say it can't be done. I just don't see how it can be done. And the other part is I personally don't think it NEEDS to be done, so Im not thinking all that hard about it. I like it the way it is, so I don't care enough to work at it.

That said, because its probably the single biggest debate when regarding the two trilogies, I think its great to try it, to see what can be done about. I just think its better the way it is.

Regarding the R2 jets. I didn't love them at first, but I think thats because I really can't stand everything about that whole droid factory sequence. The R2 boosters themselves are kinda cool and I loved in ROTS. So adding them to the Sand pit in Jedi might be cool if it worked well.

Question is, can anyone explain to me what that rope Leia and Luke swing out to the skiff is connected to? The sky?

Originally it was attached to a 'barge pole', Lando flicks a switch and the skiff magnet pulls at Leia's bikini and they glide across, still holding onto the now detached rope.

All makes sense now doesn't it?

R2 was always more of a clunky little toolbox.....the PT made him too streamlined and capable.

Threepio and Artoo have primary functions (things they were constructed for) but in most of the films they are characters who end up having adventures.

Threepio is a butler/translator and he is equipped for that task.

Artoo is a robot co-pilot/starship repairman.

One of the few bits I really liked in TPM was seeing him doing the job he was designed for, EVA repair work.

Having jets to maneuver into position makes sense just like having a welding torch or a computer interface.

The only time it makes sense for him to use them in the OT is on the sail barge.

Artoo having jets didn't ruin the character.

Artoo laughing his nuts off while Threepio has his memory wiped does.

Artoo as badly rendered CGI getting into oil wrestling with comedy battledroids does.

But conceptually having jets doesn't.

But as I say not my call on PT:R. 

And thats where I disagree with the whole argument of PT R2 vs OT R2.....things were clunkier, and more archaic in the OT....everything was made too slick and perfect in the PT, including R2. You want your characters to have limitations....that way you feel genuine suspense when they're in danger....or possibly about to fail at something they're trying to accomplish. The PT had no such suspense because of how they would just switch to CG anytime they couldn't accomplish something with a physical droid. Instead of having the same limitations that the real R2 units had in '76, '79, and '82 they were now able to have the droids do ANYTHING. If AOTC had been made 30 years ago R2 would have turned around, gone back the way he came, and found an alternate route to where he was trying to get to....OR alternatively he would have found a port, plugged in and saved the day that way....from a distance (the same way he shuts down the garbage compactor in ANH).......in the PT he's got a tool for literally EVERY possible situation and therefore has far more confidence than he does in the OT. So the character IS changed and definitely FEELS different.

Some of that difference makes narrative sense.

Like the discussions we had earlier about the ships, the droids in the PT era are top of the range and brand new.

I type this on a PowerBook G4 which in it's day was the Rolls Royce of laptops (the first widescreen 17" screen laptop etc etc).

The square bracket key no longer functions, the DVD 'orifice' has a snap in it, the screen is fading to pink, I have to plug in a cooler fan because using flash heats the aluminum casing to the point that it irons my legs.

In TPM Artoo is the brand new repairbot on a Royal Yacht.

In ANH he is the beat up ancient repairbot on a consular ship owned by a Princess so he has gone down a notch but he still a well constructed piece of kit used by the upper classes.

The other droids in the Jawa Crawler are a mixture of beat up/patched up industrial equipment and "unique fixer upper opportunities".

You should be careful to pick away what doesn't work because it's just being fancy for it's own sake or just being there to make George's kids laugh and what doesn't look like Star Wars 1977 because the object isn't old and broken yet.

The jets are narratively functional.

A car needs wheels.

A spaceship repair droid probably needs some kind of independent propulsion (to do it's job).

In a film a character may use a cars wheels to do things beyond it's design specifications (like kill the bad guy).

In a Star Wars film a droid may use jets designed to maneuver in space to make short hops into the air (flying like Superman is probably a step too far). 

muddyknees2000 said:

And thats where I disagree with the whole argument of PT R2 vs OT R2.....things were clunkier, and more archaic in the OT....everything was made too slick and perfect in the PT, including R2. You want your characters to have limitations....that way you feel genuine suspense when they're in danger....or possibly about to fail at something they're trying to accomplish. The PT had no such suspense because of how they would just switch to CG anytime they couldn't accomplish something with a physical droid. Instead of having the same limitations that the real R2 units had in '76, '79, and '82 they were now able to have the droids do ANYTHING. If AOTC had been made 30 years ago R2 would have turned around, gone back the way he came, and found an alternate route to where he was trying to get to....OR alternatively he would have found a port, plugged in and saved the day that way....from a distance (the same way he shuts down the garbage compactor in ANH).......in the PT he's got a tool for literally EVERY possible situation and therefore has far more confidence than he does in the OT. So the character IS changed and definitely FEELS different.

My thoughts exactly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJlHjf_E--4

Getting back to the scene, when R2 pushes 3P0 off the barge & jumps also, he does this knowing that he is part of the team, that he depends on others, like they depend on him, he takes that leap knowing that he won't be left behind, besides Luke already used a trick to survive when he walked the plank.

J 

I have no problem with R2 having jets. I feel many dislike them simply because they were a PT addition. The thing is, why shouldn't R2 have jets? I get that if you use jets it's no longer a physical model, but, I mean, it's not like in a galaxy far, far, away they had those limitations. If the OT was made the same way with today's technology, don't think there wouldn't be some CGI. 

In the end, though, while I would like to keep that continuity with the PT, I have to agree that I don't really see how the jets would work into the sail barge. It would seem clunky I think, like J said.

Jaitea said:

Getting back to the scene, when R2 pushes 3P0 off the barge & jumps also, he does this knowing that he is part of the team, that he depends on others, like they depend on him, he takes that leap knowing that he won't be left behind, besides Luke already used a trick to survive when he walked the plank.

J 

I hear what you're saying. But mostly, I'm crying because of your avatar. =(

Bingowings said:

...the droids in the PT era are top of the range and brand new.

 

The jets are narratively functional.

 Who says they're brand new? The galaxy (and the civilization within it) didn't just pop into existence immediately after the opening crawl. Things have been rolling for quite some time and as such there should be aspects of the universe that show wear and tear. Perhaps as a repair droid on a royal ship R2 SHOULD look clean and new......but I definitely disagree when you say that jets on R2 function on a narrative level. R2 rolls around, and apparently has a magnetic function to stick to the outside of a moving spacecraft (a "new" ability shown for the first time in the PT that I DON'T have a problem with)......he also has extendable arms with tools on them to get into tight spaces and accomplish tasks ordinary humans couldn't. I'd say he has more than enough mobilty as it is without making him fly on top of everything else he can do. As a narrative device R2's jets fail completely in my opinion as they make the character less interesting.....we worry less about how he will get out of a jam, therefore we care less overall. I'm not saying the jets aren't a logical thing to have on a droid of his type.....but the secret to writing a good character is to write him/her as you want, then remove some aspects in order to create a conflict or a goal for the individual.....making them too perfect makes them boring. There SHOULD be things R2 cannot do.....flying, in my opinion, is definitely one of them.

muddyknees2000 said:

Bingowings said:

...the droids in the PT era are top of the range and brand new.

 

The jets are narratively functional.

 Who says they're brand new? The galaxy (and the civilization within it) didn't just pop into existence immediately after the opening crawl. Things have been rolling for quite some time and as such there should be aspects of the universe that show wear and tear. Perhaps as a repair droid on a royal ship R2 SHOULD look clean and new......but I definitely disagree when you say that jets on R2 function on a narrative level. R2 rolls around, and apparently has a magnetic function to stick to the outside of a moving spacecraft (a "new" ability shown for the first time in the PT that I DON'T have a problem with)......he also has extendable arms with tools on them to get into tight spaces and accomplish tasks ordinary humans couldn't. I'd say he has more than enough mobilty as it is without making him fly on top of everything else he can do. As a narrative device R2's jets fail completely in my opinion as they make the character less interesting.....we worry less about how he will get out of a jam, therefore we care less overall. I'm not saying the jets aren't a logical thing to have on a droid of his type.....but the secret to writing a good character is to write him/her as you want, then remove some aspects in order to create a conflict or a goal for the individual.....making them too perfect makes them boring. There SHOULD be things R2 cannot do.....flying, in my opinion, is definitely one of them.

THANK YOU!

It's why there is kryptonite in Superman.

Jaitea said:

...when R2 pushes 3P0 off the barge & jumps also, he does this knowing that he is part of the team, that he depends on others, like they depend on him, he takes that leap knowing that he won't be left behind...

 Which sadly highlights yet another problem with the PT droids....theres already an overall lack of cameraderie in the PT....that slightly cheesy team spirit... "friends fighting for eachother" kinda feel that the OT had in spades...but the droids get the worst treatment in this particular aspect of the PT.....they're literally treated like they're just talking appliances. Theres no care or concern from any of the living & breathing characters towards the droids. They're treated as if they were disposable by the characters, and they're treated like plot devices instead of characters by the writers.

We do go from, "an extremely well put together little droid" to "your droid looks a bit beat up, you want a new one?" in a space of almost two decades of story time.

So while it may be that Artoo is not straight of the production line in TPM he is in mint condition (unlike my laptop) and fit for Royal use (in other words 'as good as').

While it might make for awful cinema how he uses his jets in ROTS, it makes sense to me at least that he has them because of the job he is designed to do.

Yeah he can magnetically cling to the surface of ships but not all components are going to be on cling-on-to-able surfaces.

That's where jets make sense (conceptually, not in the Super Mario sense they are used in the PT in it's current form).

And to me using jets to push someone to safety is no more different than using a stormtrooper grapple hook, a loose bit of rigging or driving a car up a slope to leap from one surface to another.

It's not flying if used in that way.

But this is as usual a pointless conversation because the jets aren't even going to be in PT:R.