I think you could probably take Artoo and Threepio and reposition them so they don't move from the tableau of the funeral scene.
Ady may still be keeping Threepio out of all but ROTS though so he wouldn't even be there in AOTC:R.
sonofjones said:
Since the discussion has come up, I was wandering Adywan if you would consider the possibility of completely redubbing over certain characters in the PT to a) allow for better performances and b) to serve the new plot revisions you will no doubt make.
I hope you'll forgive my forwardness but I thought I'd direct this query over here.
I hope so.
Indeed I wouldn't mind have characters in ROTJ and the PT entirely replaced if a better actor can be found, it would be the best way to fix the most broken element of those four films (the script).
I would like to see Halloween mask Tarkin replaced by Peter Cushing and in more scenes for example.
Ryan McAvoy said:
muddyknees2000 said:
Johannus said:
Sure a lot of existing footage would require a lot of work to remove Yoda completely, but maybe send Liam Neeson an early copy of ESB:R or something with a persuasive note suggesting you may need him to film a few new scenes.
He's "Taken 3" desperate....not "unpaid fan-edit" desperate...
^ Not beyond the realms of possibility. Stars do funny skits, voiceovers and whatnot sometimes. They get bored and fancy a giggle like the rest of us. A-listers work for free sometimes just because they want to be involved in something. Not sure that Neeson would want to revisit SW (He nearly quit acting he hated TPM so much) but I could see Sam Jackson being up for PT:Revisted.
He does movies all the time for lower pay just for fun. He did Snakes On a Plane for the hell of it and did Deep Blue Sea just so he could die. He's a big Star Wars geek like the rest of us so it might be worth posting him a copy of OT:Revisted. You'd have to work round his schedule to make it super easy.
You could do alot of fixing with him onboard to film scenes.
Also Ewan strikes me as the sort of bloke who'd do something like Revisted just for the story to tell.
What about Simon Pegg? I think he even already watched ANH:R.
"Yeah and... and... and I'm gonna be back to talk about them Rolexes."
Continued from another thread...
brimforge said:
I just think that some "problems" are beginning in the OT, see it as you will, but it is in these cases easier to "repair" the thing in the OT and accept the mess in the PTray_afraid said:
brimforge said:
for the "Leia's mother / Padme"-Paradox: it all stands and falls with Luke's question "do you remember your mother?"
if one would cut that out, it just states as to why her foster-mother was sad => because she knew what happened to her mother ...
That's not a bad fix, but as always, I think it's better to change the PT to match the OT. No point in fixing something that ain't broke so it can try to fix something never worked.
I agree about many problems starting in Jedi, but I'll never "accept the mess in the PT". I'm all for Revisited making huge changes to ROTJ, but not to make it fit with the PT. Jedi has it's own problems that need fixing and changing, but the inconsistencies in the prequels aren't it's problem.
Honestly I'd be happy with dropping the sibling non-plot and have the Jedi end with Luke going off in search of "the other", though I don't know quite how that could be done. It would end the film with an un-finnished sub-plot, like ESB, but with no sequel to tie things up. However, where the ending of ESB leaves the audience with doubt and worry, it could leave the audience filled with hope and inspiration without tying things up too nicely as it shows that there are still adventures to be had.
See I always felt like all of a sudden Luke and Leia have already known that she was adopted and her real mother lived with her for the first few years of her life. Which seems weird and awkward and confusing to me. Sure there are explanations that one could come up with for why they knew, but I just don't feel like it jives with the OT story telling.
Also, I get that Obi and co. would want to split up the two babies, but why would their mother?
Additionally, if these films are meant to be watched in chronological order, wouldn't it be weird to see Padme alive at the end of III and then never see or hear about her again until VI when we learn she died offscreen?
And the final reason: I get that people don't want to make the PT match the OT rather than vice versa. The OT's better, I get that, I agree. But if ROTJ is so much better than ROTS, why would you take out one of the most well executed plot elements ("will to live" notwithstanding) from the lesser film rather than take out a throwaway line from the better film? Wouldn't that be quite detrimental to a movie that you're supposed to be making better? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Well the only problem with Padme dying is two lines of dialogue in ROTJ.
I'm just saying, ROTJ is no untouchable perfect piece of cinema. There's a choice to make here and one of them honestly is a lot easier and makes a lot more sense.
Everything about Padme's death in childbirth stinks up the OT.
Not only does it contradict Leia in ROTJ and paint Padme as a selfish mother, it breaks the secret of the twins and it names them while Padme blurts out the big reveal for ESB.
Having Padme trust Obi-Wan with Luke mirrors Shmoo trusting Qui-Gon with Anakin.
Luke is meant to be the Anakin's journey completed so it makes sense his story mirrors his father in the beginning if it's going to almost dovetail at the end.
Bingowings said:
Everything about Padme's death in childbirth stinks up the OT.
Not only does it contradict Leia in ROTJ and paint Padme as a selfish mother, it breaks the secret of the twins and it names them while Padme blurts out the big reveal for ESB.
Having Padme trust Obi-Wan with Luke mirrors Shmoo trusting Qui-Gon with Anakin.
Luke is meant to be the Anakin's journey completed so it makes sense his story mirrors his father in the beginning if it's going to almost dovetail at the end.
ESB reveal is a whole other argument. Besides, Padme dying is not contingent on her naming the twins. That could be easily cut. So could "not having the will to live."
The connection to Shmi is interesting but we saw even her die and she was much less off a major character.
I have to take back some of my earlier comments. I guess if Leia isn't Lukes sister, he has no reason to go crazy on Vader.
I'm still against changing the OT to match the PT. The scene works fine without if the PT isn't taken into consideration, and for me it isn't.
I wonder if Ady is planning on using anything from that ROTJ laserdisc. Footage isn't a great option, I know, but audio could work. Yoda's line about not lettin Ob-Wan tell Luke about Vader seems like it would be an amazing addition.
I've been wondering this too. The difficulty is how to get the dialogue in without the footage. I think that when they get to full restoration mode on the LD there might be a chance they can fix the footage enough for just a few shots.
Also, if footage is used from the LD, I would hope that a way can be found to include the Luke/Lightsaber footage. I understand the desire for best possible picture quality, but that isn't always possible, and Harmy's Despecialized should be a good indicator that people can still be extremely satisfied, despite the varying quality of source material.
Preferred Saga:
1,2: Numeraljoker extended
3: L8wrtr
4,6-9: Hal9000
5: Adywan
nightstalkerpoet said:
Also, if footage is used from the LD, I would hope that a way can be found to include the Luke/Lightsaber footage. I understand the desire for best possible picture quality, but that isn't always possible, and Harmy's Despecialized should be a good indicator that people can still be extremely satisfied, despite the varying quality of source material.
I actually never liked that cut scene to be honest. I know we get excited because it's new to us and all that jazz, but I understood why it wasn't used. The scene kills all mystery of the green blade. Before the prequels the reveal of that green blade was an awesome moment for me. At the time it symbolized the new age of the Jedi. Using the scene would kill that moment and build up. I don't need it spelled out to me that Luke built the lightsaber.
nightstalkerpoet said:
I've been wondering this too. The difficulty is how to get the dialogue in without the footage. I think that when they get to full restoration mode on the LD there might be a chance they can fix the footage enough for just a few shots.
Also, if footage is used from the LD, I would hope that a way can be found to include the Luke/Lightsaber footage. I understand the desire for best possible picture quality, but that isn't always possible, and Harmy's Despecialized should be a good indicator that people can still be extremely satisfied, despite the varying quality of source material.
I highly doubt the footage itself could ever be in a suitable condition to be used.
The dialogue, on the other hand, stood out to me as an excellent opportunity for use during cutaways or when Yoda's back is turned.
I still can't believe they didn't use that line about Yoda not letting Ben tell Luke. It changes everything and makes him seem far less of a lying bastard!
I don't know how to use magic like Ady does, but there must be some way to use the existing elements from that shot of Yoda in the Blu-ray, extending the clip and moving his mouth to make the dialogue fit, right? Or something like that. Otherwise I'm sure a cutaway works.
It's possible to animate a mouth using meshwarp in AfterEffects, however if he's not already puppeteered opening and closing his mouth in the correct way, I don't think it will look convincing. Perhaps if there's a shot of him which happens to match up with what's being said (or can be made to match up by masking in the mouth from different shots) it could provide a good base for then applying the same techniques as he's used already.
Of course, by ROTJ, it's possible Ady will have progressed to using a full CG mouth replacement depending on what he wants to accomplish.
I'm actually really fond of the idea of different colors for the crawls.
TPM - Orange
AotC - Teal
RotS - Bright Red
ANH - Yellow
ESB - Dark Blue
RotJ - Green or Maroon
Preferred Saga:
1,2: Numeraljoker extended
3: L8wrtr
4,6-9: Hal9000
5: Adywan
nightstalkerpoet said:
I'm actually really fond of the idea of different colors for the crawls.
Not happening for Revisited.
DominicCobb said:
if these films are meant to be watched in chronological order, wouldn't it be weird to see Padme alive at the end of III and then never see or hear about her again until VI when we learn she died offscreen?
What if the last we see of Pademe, she's on Aalderan with Leia. Not acting as her mother, but a 'friend of the family' who can still keep an eye on her little girl. Then in IV when Alderaan is destroyed, the audience knows that Pademe was killed in the blast and that Vader just unknowingly killed his wife.
mrbenja0618 said:
I actually never liked that cut scene to be honest. I know we get excited because it's new to us and all that jazz, but I understood why it wasn't used. The scene kills all mystery of the green blade. Before the prequels the reveal of that green blade was an awesome moment for me. At the time it symbolized the new age of the Jedi. Using the scene would kill that moment and build up. I don't need it spelled out to me that Luke built the lightsaber.
It wouldn't kill the mystery at all. It would just place the reveal at a different point in the film. There is no build up to that moment as the audience has no idea it's even coming. It would still have the same effect.
It might be possible to change the line in ROTJ so Padme shared the same fate as Alderaan using ANH dialogue but it probably sound wonky.
Leia says she died when she was very young (not newborn baby young but young) I don't think changing that will work.
It's doubly a shame Lucas changed things for the PT really because with all the talk of Disney spin offs the story of Young Leia and the final journey of her mother would make an interesting story.
If I was a Disney executive I would have my people working on retconning that retcon to make such a film possible.
Padme's death could have been faked to help protect her and the children.
That way Nat Portman could be in a good Star Wars film with interesting female characters.
It might more interesting than young Han and bully Boba or whatever we are going to get.
You guys (Ray, Bingo) really hate the PT that much that you will stick by things developed in ROTJ, even though you don't even consider it good? My point is, Padme's death makes more sense, dramatically. Having Padme killed in the Alderaan explosion (or before it) would mean she was killed offscreen, which dramatically doesn't make much sense considering how big a character she is. Other than that I don't know how to further my argument beside what I've already said.
Put it this way.
I've never really liked ROTJ that much but one thing I did latch onto in 1983 was that one fleeting mention of Leia/Luke's mother.
It created possibilities that the mind could play with (like the words "the Clone Wars" did until we found out it was just an excuse for cut and paste CGI battles).
You get enough of a scenario to think about and nothing more.
Leia is clearly meant to be old enough to form lasting memories but too young to hold significant details (2 to 4 years old).
Knowing that Leia is hidden from Vader and Palpatine those must have been a dangerous 2 to 4 years, full of peril and the possibility of drama.
If ROTS had killed Padme in an interesting way which explained why Leia remembers things differently I wouldn't mind surrendering that potential.
But as she does hardly anything in the film other than obsess over her child murdering/spouse abusing greedy, needy traitor of a husband and gives up the will to live after giving birth to two vulnerable children. I am more protective of that Jedi moment.
Indeed I'm more protective of that Jedi moment than anything I can think of in the PT as currently seen.
Bingowings said:
Put it this way.
I've never really liked ROTJ that much but one thing I did latch onto in 1983 was that one fleeting mention of Leia/Luke's mother.
It created possibilities that the mind could play with (like the words "the Clone Wars" did until we found out it was just an excuse for cut and paste CGI battles).
You get enough of a scenario to think about and nothing more.
Leia is clearly meant to be old enough to form lasting memories but too young to hold significant details (2 to 4 years old).
Knowing that Leia is hidden from Vader and Palpatine those must have been a dangerous 2 to 4 years, full of peril and the possibility of drama.
If ROTS had killed Padme in an interesting way which explained why Leia remembers things differently I wouldn't mind surrendering that potential.
But as she does hardly anything in the film other than obsess over her child murdering/spouse abusing greedy, needy traitor of a husband and gives up the will to live after giving birth to two vulnerable children. I am more protective of that Jedi moment.
Indeed I'm more protective of that Jedi moment than anything I can think of in the PT as currently seen.
Couldn't agree more.
nightstalkerpoet said:
I'm actually really fond of the idea of different colors for the crawls.
TPM - Orange
AotC - Teal
RotS - Bright Red
ANH - Yellow
ESB - Dark Blue
RotJ - Green or Maroon
Dear god, no.
I've been mulling the prequels over (AGAIN!) and trying to conciliate what's possible in editing/reshooting with what we know from the OT pre 1999, and I think I've come up with my most practical idea to date, whilst still keeping the reveal in ESB. It's a combination of existing ideas from myself and other members, most notably Bingowings' dissociative fugue concept - at least he's the first person I remember bringing this up.
Basically, when Obi Wan takes Anakin on as a student (Obi is not a student himself and Qui Gon, if he exists in said edit, is just a fellow Knight), we would have one of the council members make reference to Obi Wan's previous failed student. This could be done through filming new human council members (something the prequels sorely need) or alternatively through redubbing. They could elaborate and say the student turned to the dark side, but "failed" works also. This sets it up from the get go that Obi had an apprentice so we can immediately reference that line in ANH "Was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil" and assume it's this person.
Then when we meet Darth Maul, who either remains nameless or is called Darth VADER. It's revealed through redubbing or creative re-editing of existing dialogue that HE is the failed apprentice. Maul/Vader still kills Qui Gon, Obi still cuts him in half, but we get some kind of hint that he's not dead - whether it's shot of him dragging his torso away after his fall down the shaft or a full on rebuilding scene where you see him get some robot legs attached or even put in the Darth Vader suit. There are a lot of variables to consider and they all depend on resources available when shooting.
In the next film/s, Grievous would be scrapped in favour of Vader in full costume.
This is the point at which I'm not sure whether it's practical or doable, but Anakin would fight VADER. Footage of Anakin fighting (Dooku, Obi, droids, whoever) would have to be roto'd out and creatively superimposed into footage of costumed Vader swinging his saber (which would require the costumed actor to be fighting thin air).
Obviously, it would be really difficult to get them to appear to interact convincingly so you'd have to weigh up whether it would be better to just film a new Anakin actor (seeing as we're so limited by the Anakins we have anyway). That's more into the realms of a refilming rather than a re-edit with refilmed elements though, so I'll shut up about that for now.
In the Duel, Vader taunts Anakin with threats that after he's done with him, he'll kill his master and his loved ones. Anakin strikes Vader down in a rage.
He walks away.
The scene may get a bit 'visiony' like the 'force cave' in ESB. (or change in some way to make it seem surreal, like something isn't quite right)
Anakin turns just in time to see Vader rise up behind him and raise his saber.
We cut away to hear Anakin scream and then silence.
This is the point at which Anakin "dies" and "becomes" Vader, though the viewer doesn't know it at this point.
A first time viewer would think that Vader actually killed Anakin. A viewer who already knows will see it as a force-vision and an allegory all in one. Anakin, in giving into his hate, has taken up the mantle (and costume) of the Dark Lord.
From this point on, we see Vader committing atrocities in costume and no one need be any the wiser....