I agree. That would be easy to do and even if Hal didn’t want to do that we could make a separate edit ourselves. I think you could cut the parent vision and not replace it as long as kylo says something that elicits Rey’s reaction. And VFX for the ship would help but if it’s not in this film you only see it in TFA so it’s not a huge deal.
I still think a second vision of some sort might be welcome there. There’s two (unconnectable) shots of Rey with her parent’s death vision sandwiched in the middle. Now, yes, technically you could just cut the first of those shots with Rey and skip to the second one where she reacts, but I’m unsure how this would affect the pacing of the scene.
Something like the following, probably:
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is in your nature, Rey…”
“You’re lying.”
“I’d never lie to you… your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they never planned for.”
“Don’t!”
“Your father had no part in your conception.”
“I don’t want this!”
“…just like Vader.”
“No!”
“You see it, too, don’t you? The throne.”
(Rey sees a flash of the vision of herself on the Sith throne)
“Your family feared you. Just like mine did for me.”
“Stop talking.”
“Rey… our parents abandoned us to murderers.”
(Cutaway to heroes capture)
“Your parents were always drunk, especially so when they sold you. Palpatine’s followers captured them. He was looking for you, but they couldn’t even remember what happened to you. They died to ensure you never saw a second chance at love.”
(SOME SORT OF VISUAL HERE)
“No!”
(The mask of Vader falls to the ground)
“So that’s where you are.”
“Before you chose the Jedi, Palpatine wanted you. I’ll come tell you why.”
—
“Why did the Emperor come for me?”
"Because he manipulated the Force itself into creating life. My grandfather. Then, perfected in darkness with you. You’re his chosen heir… a rightful Palpatine.”
"The Emperor only wants us to fight each other so his strongest heir may take the throne. But he’s unaware that we’re a dyad in the Force, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but shared power. We’ll kill him, and finish what Vader started, together…”
Ehhh. I just remembered that the scene immediately after this has Rey lamenting the fact that Palpatine killed her parents and that she wants revenge. I’m leaning more towards the good parents approach, which I’ll hide below:
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is in your nature, Rey…”
“You’re lying.”
“You were right… your parents were no one. But your mother’s pregnancy began suddenly, before your father.”
“Don’t!”
“You are so much like my grandfather. So like Darth Vader….”
“I don’t want this!”
“…destined for darkness.”
“No!”
“Your parents were hunted across the galaxy.”
(Rey sees the vision of her parents and her abandonment.)
“They paid for your protection…in more than one way.”
“Stop talking.”
“Rey… I learned what happened to them.”
(Cutaway to heroes capture)
“Your parents heard rumors of a hidden settlement, a sanctuary of the Force, on Jakku. They searched the desert for further help. But an agent of the Emperor tracked their stolen ship.”
(Rey sees her parents get killed and the mask of Vader falls to the ground.)
“So that’s where you are.”
“Before you chose the Jedi, Palpatine wanted you. I’ll come tell you why.”
—
“Why did the Emperor come for me?”
"Because he manipulated the Force itself into creating life. My grandfather. Then, perfected in darkness with you. You’re his chosen heir… a rightful Palpatine.”
"The Emperor only wants us to fight each other so his strongest heir may take the throne. But he’s unaware that we’re a dyad in the Force, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but shared power. We’ll kill him, and finish what Vader started, together…”
EDIT: Alternatively, Rey is just suffering the effects of having abusive parents in that scene with Finn. She still thinks that if they’d had more time alive without Palpatine killing them they would have changed their ways and come back to rescue her and love her, like my line in my previous post suggests. It would explain why, too, that she doesn’t seem to care that Ben Solo, who she loves, abused her as Kylo Ren. The only concept of love she grew up with was mixed with abuse. Which to be clear, doesn’t make any of it right or correct, but it makes sense at least. Thus why Finn says none of this sounds like her.
Yeah, I think that scene works fine within the context of your write-up. I think it only feels weird if you go with the dark vision route as it is in Ascendant at the moment, because the “reveal” is that Rey will kill Palpatine, which she clearly is upset about. It doesn’t really make sense if she immediately says she wants to destroy him. I think what you have is pretty solid for a scumbag parent edit, I would maybe change some of the wording, but I like the ideas. The only question I would have is why Palpatine didn’t know where Rey was in the first place, as I would assume that if he created both Anakin and Rey he would control where they end up. But that can probably be explained with some clever wording.
In an edit like this, the implication is that when the Force created this life on Palpatine’s behalf it was placed in a random woman across the galaxy. In Anakin’s case, he got lucky with a loving mother. But with Rey, we get to see what happens with the opposite; an abusive mother and step-father.
As for why Palpatine cannot extract Rey’s location from their minds, it’s literally because they cannot remember even selling her in the first place because of how drunk they were at the time and continue to be. I’d be willing to experiment with alternative wording for this. But we should probably keep “Weak, like your parents” and simply remove Rey’s response to this comment as what he’s stating is a compelling argument for why Rey should kill him instead of being an insult.
Here’s another variation where Palpatine doesn’t know where Rey is, and waits for the force to awaken in her, revealing herself to him. This also works for Anakin, as you could say that through the force, Qui gon and Obi Wan found him, revealing Anakin to Palpatine. I removed her parents completely and in this version Palpatine doesn’t create Anakin, but that’s just preference and you could easily reinsert the lines that communicate that. This works best with TFA Starlight and Rey’s sith eyes in that moment.
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is in your nature, Rey…”
“You’re lying.”
“I’d never lie to you… your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they never planned for.”
“Don’t!”
“Your father had no part in your conception.”
“I don’t want this!”
“…just like Vader.”
“No!”
“You see it, too, don’t you? The throne.”
(Rey sees a flash of the vision of herself on the Sith throne)
“Your family feared you. The same way Skywalker feared me.”
“Stop talking.”
“But they didn’t know you like I do.”
(Cutaway to heroes capture)
“Palpatine knew your true potential… your power. The first time we fought, in the forest, the darkness inside of you awakened. You revealed yourself to the emperor that day… just as he planned."
(Visions of Rey beating Kylo on Starkiller, falling into the dark cave, etc.)
“No!”
(The mask of Vader falls to the ground)
“So that’s where you are.”
“Before you chose the Jedi, Palpatine wanted you. I’ll come tell you why.”
“Rey… I know the rest of your story.”
“Tell me.”
“Because he manipulated the dark side of the Force itself into creating life. You’re his creation, his chosen heir. You, are a Palpatine.”
"The Emperor wants us to fight each other so the strongest may take the throne. But what he doesn’t know is that we’re a dyad in the Force, Rey… two, that are one. We’ll kill him, and finish what Vader started, together…”
I’m not sure how we could even navigate the scene between her and Finn without mentioning what Palps did to her parents. The concern I personally have with not mentioning Anakin’s part in all this is that we make a direct comparison between the two at the beginning. Even without that there, most people will assume Palpatine created Anakin, too, purely based off of the similarities in their births and unconfirmed nature of this topic in the films themselves. Which creates concerning incest vibes regardless. So the way I see it, there really is no middle ground here. Either: 1. Anakin was created by the light, manipulated to the dark, redeemed, and all his descendants proceeded to give in to their unusually dark nature, or 2. Anakin always had a conflicted mind (perhaps 50% dark, 50% light - balanced), was redeemed, but his descendants still needed to fight their own inner conflict:
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. Your nature is the dark side, Rey…”
“You’re lying.”
“I’d never lie to you… your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they never planned for.”
“Don’t!”
“Your father had no part in your conception.”
“I don’t want this!”
“…just like Vader.”
“No!”
“You see it, too, don’t you? The throne.”
(Rey sees a flash of the vision of herself on the Sith throne)
“Your parents feared you. The same way Luke feared me.”
“Stop talking.”
“But they never knew you like I do.”
(Cutaway to heroes capture)
“Your parents were always drunk, especially so when they sold you. Palpatine’s followers had your parents taken. He was looking for you, but they couldn’t even remember what happened to you. They died to ensure you never saw a second chance at love."
(Brief shots of Ochi brandishing his blade - not their deaths because it shows them as too sympathetic)
“No!”
(The mask of Vader falls to the ground)
“So that’s where you are.”
“Before your Jedi path, Palpatine wanted you alive. I’ll come tell you why.”
“Rey… I know the rest of our story.”
“Tell me.”
“The Emperor manipulated the Force itself into creating life. My grandfather proved too balanced. So he gave you his own nature. You… are a Palpatine.”
"The Emperor wants us to fight each other so his strongest heir may claim the throne. He hasn’t realized the depth of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but shared power in the Force. We’ll kill him, and finish what Vader started, together…”
(This way he’s not giving Rey a vocab lesson in the middle of his proposal. We’ll save that for Palpatine to define since he’s known to do that sort of thing. We have to refer to “the Force” instead of the “dark side” because the midichlorians don’t pick sides of the Force.)
I don’t see much point in lingering on about Rey’s “parents” when they’re confirmed to be irelevant nobodies, some of those lines could be used to expand on more important bits of the story. Here’s a few ideas:
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… the darkness in your nature. Rey…”
Kylo already says “The dark side is in our nature” on the DSII ruins, so this avoids repeating the exact same line twice.
“Your father had no part in your conception.”
Instead:
“But they had no part in your conception”. I think it’d be better to imply Rey is not related to either of her “parents”, and it avoids the implication the husband basically got cheated on through the Force.
“You see it, too, don’t you? The throne.”
Instead:
“You’ve seen it, haven’t you? Your destiny”. This would bring more focus on Rey’s character rather than the throne itself, causing her to relieve her vision through the mere mention of destiny. And I’d prefer the idea that Kylo knows of Rey’s visions, rather than having seen them himself.
“Your parents feared you. The same way Luke feared me.”
“Your parents were always drunk, especially so when they sold you. Palpatine’s followers had your parents taken. He was looking for you, but they couldn’t even remember what happened to you. They died to ensure you never saw a second chance at love."
I feel like from this point forward it doesn’t make sense to continue talking about Rey’s parents, we get the gist of it, they were nobodies, but Rey isn’t, it’d be better to remove any further reference to them, they have no part in this story. We’ve already moved on to the her vision of the throne and I feel like these lines could be replaced by something more relevant to set up the hangar revelation, I like the idea that Palpatine had been waiting for his creation to reveal itself, as hinventon suggested.
I don’t disagree. The trouble is that scene with Finn clearly has Rey say “He killed my mother and my father” and there isn’t a way to cut around that because it’s all in one shot beginning with Finn leaning over to grab something.
Continuing the ‘good parents’ vs ‘bad parents’ discussion, it seems to me like the two concepts are irreconcilable. I would say just to have the ‘good parents’ angle be a lie by Palpatine in this movie to give Rey some motivation to hate him, but as Hal said it conflicts with the vision that Rey has, and this has to be the truth, at least in terms of what the audience feels. But if this is the truth, then it conflicts with the spirit of TLJ. So maybe the first part of this scene is all about the battle between these ideas, between Rey’s belief that her parents were good and her knowledge that they were really terrible.
“Rey….wherever you are…You are hard to find.
“You are hard to get rid of.”
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it…I needed you to see it…who you are. I see a war within you. Rey…”
“You’re lying.”
“A part of you believes that you were abandoned. You were unplanned, unwanted.”
“Don’t!”
“But a part of you refuses to believe it. It’s too painful, even now.”
“I don’t want this!”
“So you made a new memory.”
“No!”
“Your parents didn’t abandon you. They protected you.”
(Rey sees the vision of her parents and her abandonment.)
“My Love…be brave.”
“You’ll be safe here…I promise.”
“Come back! Nooo!”
“Such a powerful, desperate desire…if only it were true.”
“Stop talking.”
“Rey…I know what happened to them.”
(Cutaway to heroes capture)
“You were right, Rey. Your parents did love you. They were looking for Luke’s friends on Jakku, a hidden sanctuary where you would be safe. But the Emperor’s assassin found them first.”
(Rey sees her parents get killed.)
“No!”
“So that’s where you are.”
“You know why the Emperor was searching for you. I’ll come tell you.”
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
No offense, but that actually isn’t the issue we’re currently having. We’re trying to figure out if it’s worth talking about what happens to her parents if they are indeed bad. I personally think we have to because of Rey’s scene with Finn immediately after all these reveals. Plus, if we kept “Weak, like your parents” that implies some sort of familiarity Palps has with them and their antics.
I do agree that the other idea makes more sense in terms of where the conversation was leading and also what makes sense for Palpatine himself to do. Granted, there’s no reason he couldn’t get impatient and want to find Rey and her parents before she taps into the dark side.
I think we might be overcomplicating it a little. Let’s take the whole concept in a logical order:
There’s no true justification between Rey’s parents selling her for drinking money, and them loving her so much when they left her on Jakku to protect her. Her memory of them traumatically leaving her on Jakku is seen onscreen, as is the ‘corrected’ one where they showed their love for her first. Since them leaving her was so traumatic, and she was young, I think it’s acceptable that she misremembered that. But, them ‘selling her for drinking money’ is said by Kylo when he’s trying to manipulate her, so can be an exaggeration. I think the cleanest solution is to preserve both the knowledge Rey shows she has in TLJ (that they were junk trader nobodies and aren’t coming back) and that they likely died forgotten on Jakku, but they did love her (parents love their kids) and that Klyo’s correcting that information for her here. That whole concept, then, only needs to be further solved by giving the reason for them wanting to hide Rey.
Then, consider the larger issue that we’re trying to solve here, which I think we have a consensus on being the fact that Rey Palpatine in the original version of TROS requires her father to be a nobody-Palpatine, which really doesn’t work. And as JJB pointed out earlier, having Rey be a spiritual Palpatine rather than a biological Palpatine (by either cloning or using the force to create life) solves that.
I think there’s value to the clone angle, in that it helps explain Palpatine’s return and Snoke, BUT it has two issues. Firstly, that both of those are more easily explained by just explicitly having at least one line somewhere in the film about ‘cloning’ or ‘experiments’, which TROS v4.0 already does elsewhere, making it unnecessary here. And secondly, and more importantly, having Rey be a direct clone of Palpatine makes her arguably MORE Palpatine than less, even more Palpatine than being his offspring. And we’re trying to loosen that link a little - ‘spiritual Palpatine’ still leaves the most wiggle room and ‘certain point of view’.
So, back to the idea of Rey being a spiritual Palpatine. Again, I think JJB’s earlier suggestion of Rey being another case of someone ‘used the force to create life’ is the right move. Palpatine told Anakin that very overtly in ROTS, and we know Anakin was a virgin birth, so even if George’s intention was only implied onscreen, it’s clear enough that this is a valid mechanism established in the canon. So, in our new dialogue we could arguably just call back to ‘using the force to create life’ and have her parents (nobodies) influenced by Palpatine into birthing Rey. That, I think, needs to be the core of how we solve the two major conflicts, and also explains why her parents sought her protection - and anything beyond that is a bonus.
But onto that bonus. This is the area I think we’re overcomplicating, by adding too many wrinkles. The dialogue shouldn’t be too expository, nor add too many new angles. Remember, Kylo’s mainly trying to communicate ‘You’re powerful and I needed to confirm that, here’s the new perspective on your identity, I want us to work together to destroy Palpatine’. A large infodump risks muddying the waters here, so I’d strongly advocate for a light touch.
Consider: This is the end of a trilogy of trilogies, an episode designed to close down a lot of what came before. And Disney know there’s a huge audience sentiment toward something truly new, away from the Skywalker family mythology - they are unlikely to keep retreading this ground. So our meta-focus should be in using established canon to conclude this phase as cleanly as possible - to fix the inconsistencies, justify the existing choices, and wrap up outstanding arcs - not to introduce new interpretations and perspectives that overhang characters and concepts beyond this movie. This is the last suprising revelation that uses established context to carry us to the end of this era, so that new ideas can follow.
So, with the priority of solving those problems whilst keeping the dialogue in line with Kylo’s priorities and our need for elegance, I think acknowledgment of Vader being a Palpatine-creation is the most beneficial, but with a light touch only. As we’ve discussed, making both Rey and the Skywalker line spiritual-Palpatines gives us a load of great implications, including why Leia turned from the Jedi, a better explanation for the Dyad bond, and better later justification for Rey claiming the Skywalker name. And, in the moment, it serves Kylo’s dialogue as a further reason for the two of them to ally and see eye-to-eye, and permits the shades of grey between them.
BUT, I think we can avoid a lot of other plot threads. Getting too detailed about things like there being a ‘Skywalker bloodline’ and a ‘Palpatine bloodline’ I think is overkill, especially since new canon won’t reference that. Bear in mind also that Kylo’s information comes directly from Palpatine, who is both a potentially unreliable source of information, and not one to infodump beyond what’s necessary. And adding in the wrinkle of the (lightside) force being involved in creating the Skywalkers (or freeing their line from Palpatine), or getting into any detail whatsoever about the Chosen One prophecy, I think is also a step too complicated, and another thing that future canon won’t acknowledge. I don’t think we need to explain why Palpatine chose Rey’s mother (just like we don’t know why Shmi was chosen), or how Ochi plays into things beyond his existing appearance in TROS. I don’t think we even need to explain why Ochi’s ship appears twice - that could just be another of the same model (we also see one in Andor).
As minor additions, I think it’s elegant and ‘closing’ to explain the Dyad as ‘raw power’ as that’ll pay off later, and elegant to use the Lor San Tekka/Luke angle to justify the choice of Jakku.
So, in summary, I’d say all we need to convey is:
Later dialogue covers the revelation that Palpatine wants to ritually inhabit these hosts (and the viewer can infer about the Vader bloodline if they want), and that he’s suprised he can consume the Dyad power, so these also don’t need to be covered here.
As final thoughts, aligned with this I’d use two other places to modify the dialogue to best support this. Firstly, by having Leia give up her training out of fear of her inner dark, as we’ve discussed. And secondly, when Rey visits Luke, I’d have him acknowledge she’s ‘a Palpatine’, but confirm that Vader (“my own father”?) was created by Palpatine too. That confirms what Kylo’s told her, but gives her hope too (Luke overcame his origins), continuing to line up her taking the Skywalker name cleanly.
I’d personally prefer to make their struggles with the dark distinct so that we don’t already know if this is something she can overcome. Otherwise, we completely remove the stakes of her confrontation with Palpatine at the end. It also opens the door for people to dismiss what Kylo says about the Skywalker bloodline specifically as a lie from Palpatine to manipulate him, if that is what they wish. Luke only really has the opportunity to talk about Rey’s own background in his scenes anyway, and how Leia knew something about it, given what we have to work with.
I liked my approach of having the Skywalker bloodline be 50% light and 50% dark, but Palpatine still initiated Anakin’s conception. They are quite literally the “balance” of the Force itself, because they are an unaltered creation of it. It works as a prototype, if you will, that he would initiate, see as flawed, and seek to “improve”. So with Rey, he figures out how to impart his own nature onto a Force-created being. A spiritual “Palpatine”. She is more susceptible to the dark side than the Skywalkers. All of this lines up with canon, and it needn’t be mentioned ever again after this point. The point of this revelation is to make you watch the previous movies again with this altered perspective, NOT to see what comes next in canon for the Skywalkers. We already know Anakin, Luke, Leia, and Ben all have a great propensity for both the light and the dark and will continue to going forward in canon. Hell, Anakin’s life was literally spent 50% as a Skywalker and 50% as a Sith. In Rey’s upcoming movie, her continued struggle with the dark side as a “Palpatine” will almost certainly be touched on at some point. It’s important that this wouldn’t simply be a retread of the Skywalkers, whom according to you we should be moving away from. So we have to make it exceedingly clear exactly how they are different (greater draw to the dark side), while also similar (both a product of the Force itself, at the request of the Emperor).
But the movies don’t imply she’s got a struggle about the dark, it’s only her origins and her use of lightning that we see. There’s nothing onscreen about her genuinely having a tendency towards evil deeds, she only ever acts to help her friends. She has dark power, and sometimes takes the easy (powerful) path, but only ever still for good. And she sees herself on the throne, but that’s not a temptation for her, because she says she doesn’t want it, and at no point do we think she intends to be some dark ruler from it. She has a grievance against Palpatine specifically (he killed her parents indirectly) but again that’s not something that’s going to bubble over into full evil, like Anakin slaughtering tuskens.
It’s enough that she’s facing Palpatine because he’s a huge threat to the galaxy and her friends, and confused and perhaps emotionally compromised by visions of the throne. Her challenge there is showing that she’s not a worthless scavenger girl - she’s a Jedi.
And I agree that that’s a less powerful conclusion than her storyline deserved, certainly less powerful than the temptation of Luke. But even with modified dialogue I don’t think we have enough onscreen performance to imply that there’s a genuine temptation to evil here.
Perhaps her outright tendency toward the dark will be touched on in the next film in a more compelling way?
I dunno, I guess I’m fine with Rey having the same propensity for both dark and light as the Skywalkers because at least it means they quite literally live on in more than just name. But then we have to rotate back to her just being his “chosen heir” and “a rightful Palpatine” because anything other than that doesn’t make sense in the context of the Skywalkers being no different than her. And as I stated previously, it diminishes the stakes in her confrontation with Palpatine.
Then again, it does make her and Leia’s relationship incredibly touching since Luke’s conversation with her could go as follows:
“What are you most afraid of?”
“Myself.”
“Because you’re a Palpatine. Leia knew you shared her same struggle.”
“She never told me. She still trained me.”
“Because she saw your spirit. Your heart. Rey… some things are stronger than blood. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi…”
Then we’d see how Leia struggled with the same dark instincts as Rey in the flashback with Luke which caused her to abandon her Jedi path. But, again, I don’t buy that she’d ever even consider striking down Palps after such a compelling conversation like this. The only way that makes sense is if she sees no other way to defeat him.
I don’t think it diminishes the stakes in her confrontation with Palpatine, so much as it just doesn’t raise some already-low stakes. But I don’t think we need to be trying to increase them through this angle, I don’t think we’d be able to justify it with dialogue given the performances, and I think trying to enhance it by adding these new wrinkles is the wrong approach. No offence meant there of course - I just don’t think it’s the right angle.
I just think that the final confrontation works fine (and would require added clumsiness elsewhere to improve), and that the core concept of Rey being a Palp-manipulated birth is sufficiently elegant that it’ll give a huge amount of added value standing alone. In short, I think you already nailed this!
Anyway, I think I’ve made my argument as well as I can for my subjective preference, so I’ll respectfully step back now and stop repeating myself! Either way, I think we’re onto something very good here.
I guess I’m still confused what exactly it is you intend for her parents? If we tie in the Lor San Tekka village stuff, then we end up having to dedicate that large paragraph of info to them. Which may be best to dedicate to something else. This hypothetical draft would end up looking pretty close to what I had a few days ago.
I don’t think the parents need to be explained or focused on. We just need to write in a way where it makes sense for Rey to want to destroy Palpatine as that’s the next thing she says. Maybe ending on something like “We’ll kill him, and end the sith/war, together…” I don’t think promising to finish what Vader started is going to appeal to Rey that much.
I don’t think promising to finish what Vader started is going to appeal to Rey that much.
That’s the point. She wants to take Ben’s hand, not Kylo Ren’s hand. Even after everything he’s learned, he’s still pushing his same old perspective. If we make his offer too reasonable, the audience won’t like that she doesn’t accept it. This has always bugged me about Ascendant v4. With the removal of “And take the throne”, it desperately needs a line like “And take his fleet” to make it clear his intentions are still sinister while wanting Palpatine to die.
EDIT: Also worth considering that we’re going to be modifying their prior conversation so Kylo is focusing on how alike she is to Vader, anyhow. Most of their prior conversation takes place with Vader’s mask looming behind them. It makes sense narratively to include such a reference.
Oh, and like I said, there’s no way to seamlessly edit around “He (Palpatine) killed my mother and my father” so we have to include them in some way.
The current Nobody version of Ascendant just cuts that line about her parents and I didn’t notice on my viewing after not watching the actual film for a while. So I think it would be fine, Rey’s character just has to be consistent between the two scenes.
Ah, I see, they grabbed a shot of BB-8 from their first conversation on Ochi’s ship to split it. Although now I’m never gonna be able to unsee the fact that it’s a completely re-used shot lol. The Falcon doesn’t have cobwebs, either. If it could be removed from the first place then I guess I might be fine with it.
EDIT: Alternatively, the brief Chewie and Poe scene could be placed between their conversation. But that feels kinda weird from my testing. Mirroring the shot seems to do pretty good to distinguish it, contrary to what I initially expected.
Hmmm. I do think removing Rey’s parents from as much as possible generally seems to smooth things over nicely. Whereas TLJ is about revealing their devastating ordinariness, this movie should be about showcasing Rey’s own extraordinariness:
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. I know the darkness that lives in you, Rey…”
“You’re lying.”
“I’d never lie to you. Your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they never wanted.”
“Don’t!”
“Your parents, Rey… they had no part in your conception…”
“I don’t want this!”
“…just like Vader.”
“No!”
“You’ve seen it, haven’t you? Your destiny.”
(Rey sees the vision of herself on the Sith throne)
“Luke saw the same fate in me. But you and I don’t want it.”
“Stop talking.”
“Why? I know you better than anyone else.”
(Cutaway to heroes capture)
“Palpatine knew your true potential… your power. The first time we fought, in the forest, the darkness inside of you awakened. You revealed yourself to the Emperor that day… just as he intended.”
(Visions of Rey beating Kylo on Starkiller, falling into the dark cave, etc.)
“No!”
(The mask of Vader falls to the ground)
“So that’s where you are.”
“Before your Jedi path, Palpatine wanted you alive. I’ll come tell you why.”
“Rey… I know the rest of our story.”
“Tell me.”
"The Emperor manipulated the Force itself into creating life. My grandfather, and then you. You’re his chosen heir… a rightful Palpatine.”
"The Emperor wants us to fight each other so his strongest heir may claim the throne. He hasn’t realized the depth of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but shared power in the Force. We’ll end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”
(I’ve opted to remove “finish what Vader started” only because it’s a matter of interpretation whether Vader wanted to end the Sith or merely take on Luke as a Sith apprentice. As for the reference to the dyad, this would come from Palpatine later on since I don’t want him to start giving Rey a vocab lesson. He could know what the dyad is at this moment, but it’s better if he doesn’t mention that word specifically.)
“What are you most afraid of?”
“Myself.”
“Because you’re a Palpatine. Leia knew you shared the same struggle as her.”
“She never told me. She still trained me.”
“Because she saw your spirit. Your heart. Rey… some things are stronger than blood. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi…”
“She was quick to learn in our training. But Leia feared the darkness that had lived in our father, and lived on in us. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day it would be picked up again…by someone with the strength to overcome that darkness.”
So, at this rate, this edit would use Rey Nobody as a base (except for when she confronts Palps). This would be the most TLJ-friendly version of Rey Palpatine. But I’d want to mirror that shot of BB-8 because it would trigger me otherwise lol. It doesn’t even make much sense the way it’s currently implemented since the camera would be inside of the wall of the Falcon, and the other side of the room is too close. Mirroring the clip remedies both issues.
I think that works great. Preserves all of TLJ while still letting there be an actual reveal. Now we just need someone to make a clean version of the scene so we can plug in the dialogue - I would attempt it but I’m not great with audio.
I like the vast majority of that, JJB. I think it’s focused and clean. I’m on the fence about Rey’s force awakening bringing her to the attention of Palpatine, but i don’t think we need the idea that the two need to fight to see who’s best. Rey’s the preferred host, so once she’s available to Palpatine, he’s more interested. (Implicitly, if you like, Kylo’s less innately powerful because he’s third generation.)