The Starlight Project Addendum: The Rise of Skywalker (Freeform Brainstorming Session) — Page 12

NeverarGreat said:

Well if there is no direct creation of Rey or Anakin by Palpatine, then I don’t see why it couldn’t be left vague in the final wording such that the audience could interpret it several different ways. Something like ‘My grandfather was intended as a vessel for Palpatine’s spirit…and so were you’. That sort of thing. Nothing that directly states they were created by him, but something that could easily point in that direction if you so desired.

The new point/struggle of this movie would be the fact that Palpatine was the initiator for the Skywalker bloodline and Rey’s creation. And also the fact that he claims them all as his own. By the end, we are supposed to believe that he never should have claimed them as his own. They have their own free will and agency, they aren’t Palpatine’s, they’re Skywalkers, created by the Force to do good. It’s intentionally left vague just how much control he had over the life that the Force creates. But we know that the Force must consist of a powerful light, and a powerful dark. This is exactly what the Skywalkers and Rey appear to have in their blood. It’s about recognizing that their darkness isn’t of Palpatine, it’s of the Force itself, balanced.

If the average movie-goer has questions, then sure, all they have to do is re-watch the prequels! That isn’t a bad thing. I’m sure if people had questions coming out of the movie they would have looked it up and an article would have filled them in immediately and found a satisfactory answer. And besides, this edit will (likely) never leave the confines of this forum, so it’s not like we genuinely have to consider a large demographic, just the most hardcore of fans.

If you ask me, Palpatine having a son we never knew about is way more loaded than Palpatine influencing the Force into creating a birth without a father. People should know that about Anakin’s character from Episode 1. Maybe we could weave the fatherless-birth part back into the draft so it rings more bells.

Remember, this is the final twist/reveal of the Skywalker saga. Not of the Rey saga. Or, as people rightly call it now, the Palpatine saga. This is the only way to make everything right. I’m convinced of it.

I’ve given this a great deal of thought, unlike Anakin turning to the dark side on a switch lol. At least this way we know that Anakin did have darkness in him, and the light side of the Force didn’t just screw up and make its chosen one be so evil. We all have good and evil in ourselves. We can’t blame others for the bad part. You have to take responsibility and make the right choices in life. There’s so much thematic goodness here that it truly is a shame you can’t see it.

I think besides a true Rey Nobody version, the force creation with no parents angle is my favorite. The only wrinkle is that it’s not explicitly said that the force chooses a random woman in the galaxy, but I think you can infer that. Below is basically the same with a couple lines changed. I like the idea that maybe Rey’s parents saw the darkness in Rey and sold her because they were afraid of what she was. I would probably freak out too if I were them.

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is your birthright, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“I’d never lie to you. Your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they never wanted.”

“Don’t!”

“Your parents, Rey… they had no part in your conception…”

“I don’t want this!”

“…just like Vader.”

“No!”

“You’ve seen it, haven’t you? Your destiny.”

(Rey sees the vision of herself on the Sith throne)

“Your parents were afraid of your power.”

“Stop talking.”

“The same way Luke was afraid of me.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“The Force showed me glimpses of a girl like you long before we first met. When we fought, in the forest, the power inside of you awakened. You didn’t just reveal yourself to me… you were exposed to the Emperor… just as he’d intended.”

(Visions of Rey beating Kylo on Starkiller, falling into the dark cave, etc.)

“No!”

(A pedestal shatters and the mask of Vader falls to the ground)

“So that’s where you are.”

“Before you chose the Jedi, Palpatine wanted you alive."

“No…”

"I’ll come tell you why.”

“Rey… I know the rest of our story.”

“Tell me.”

"The Emperor manipulated the Force itself into creating life. First my grandfather, and then you. You were his chosen heir. You… are a rightful Palpatine.”

"The Emperor only wants us to fight each other, so his most worthy heir can claim the throne. But he hasn’t realized the strength of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but of power in the Force. We’ll end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”

That part can absolutely be inferred. When in both cases the child ended up with a random woman on some backwater planet, you have to assume that’s because those are the most common type of women in the galaxy. Especially when in both cases Palpatine easily could have given the child to a woman he trusts.

I said this at some point, but I really like the idea of the Emperor needing them to fight each other over the throne because they’ve both had visions of themselves on it. Obviously neither of them really wants that, but Rey refuses to cooperate with Kylo’s alternative plan. So when they fight on the Death Star wreckage, we play a slight motif from Duel of the Fates. They are literally dueling each other until one of them dies, fulfilling one of those visions. It’s only because of Leia’s intervention that neither of them dies and they both are in the light still.

I’ve got a few other slight changes I’d like to add to your version, hinventon. But I think the ones you did make are solid, so I’ve kept most of them:

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is your birthright, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“I’d never lie to you. Your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they never wanted.”

“Don’t!”

“But no father of yours had any part in your conception.” (people most associate Anakin with having no father)

“I don’t want this!”

“…just like Vader.”

“No!”

“You’ve seen it, too, haven’t you? Destiny.”

(Rey sees the vision of herself on the Sith throne)

“Your parents saw you as unnatural… they feared you.”

“Stop talking.”

“The same way Luke feared me.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“The Force showed me glimpses of a girl like you long before we first met. When we fought, in the forest, the power inside of you awakened. You didn’t reveal yourself to me alone… you were exposed to the Emperor… just as he’d intended.”

(Visions of Rey beating Kylo on Starkiller, falling into the dark cave, etc.)

“No!”

(A pedestal shatters and the mask of Vader falls to the ground)

“So that’s where you are.”

“Before you chose the Jedi, Palpatine wanted you alive."

“No…”

"I’ll come tell you why.”

---

“Rey… I know the rest of our story.”

“Tell me.”

"The Emperor influenced the Force itself into creating life. First my grandfather, and then you. You were his chosen heir. You… are a rightful Palpatine.”

"The Emperor only wants us to fight each other, so his most worthy heir can claim the throne. But he hasn’t realized the strength of our connection, Rey… a bond, not of blood, but of raw power in the Force. We can end him and the Sith, and create a new order, together…”

(The most important changes I’ve made here is to make the references to the prequel trilogy as clear as possible so that as many people as possible understand what’s happening).

I think that’s solid, probably as good as we’re gonna get with the force creation idea. I don’t think it’s too complicated at all and ties everything together nicely. I think I’d only have a question on why she’s referred to as a Palpatine when the Skywalkers aren’t when they were created in the same way.

If nothing else, it’s because Kylo never reveals her true last name to her (if she ever had one). The only thing she has going for her is the fact that Palpatine claimed her as his own at one point, so she is free to go by Rey Palpatine if she chooses.

In my mind, though, the idea is that the Skywalkers also have the right to be claimed by Palpatine as his own, if that is what they want, and use his name. But, ultimately, that would be a corruption of the truth, a Palpatine specialty. I’m hoping that it’s clear in an edit like this that Palpatine is only claiming what the Force made for himself, and the reality is that Rey gets to decide her own legacy. In reality, the Skywalkers always belonged to the Force itself, not him, so Rey takes on their legacy.

True. I think the only line that feels weird with this version is Luke saying “Because you’re a palpatine?” I feel like he wouldn’t call Rey a Palpatine directly like that knowing he came from the same method of creation. So maybe we could change that to phrase it slightly differently.

I really don’t want to mess around with lines spoken on screen. But I do believe somebody mentioned “Because you’re from Palpatine?”

Or we could get a take of him saying that sentence which sounds a little less serious and more of a “Really? Are you serious?” kind of tone. As in, you seriously bought into that crap? Because I do think the line as it stands could work in that way, where he’s only stating what Rey was unable to say herself: “I’m afraid of myself because I believe I’m a Palpatine.” But by the end of the movie she knows she isn’t one by claiming she’s a Skywalker.

Alternatively, we can forgo the whole Leia knowing something about Rey part so we are free to put whatever line we want immediately after that. Something like, “Because you’re a Palpatine? The Force alone made us, light and dark.”

I do like the Leia part of that but having Luke specifically talk about the reveal in more depth would help sell the edit more. If the Leia stuff was kept, I think it should just be that Leia saw the same visions of Rey and the throne, not that she knew exactly what her origin was.

Yeah, and I tried to keep that somewhat vague in my last draft: “Leia knew you shared the same struggle as her.” So she doesn’t know Rey is linked to Palpatine, but knows that she is going through the same thing that led her to abandon her own Jedi path, so she’s showing as much love and support as she can. Maybe this could be worded better as: “Leia knew you shared a similar struggle to her.” And again, Luke is only voicing Rey’s own concerns by saying “Because you’re a Palpatine?” he’s not directly confirming anything.

We already know the scene works without Leia knowing something about Rey. We’d at least get Leia dealing with the same problems as Rey in the flashback, so we can relate that to why she took such a liking to training Rey. I dunno, I’m just spit-balling here. Because in the end I want to make it clear none of them truly are Palpatines, they just need to make the choice to reject the visions and Palpatine’s claim over them.

The line for Luke you suggested is great, I think I would include that over the Leia stuff. It’s already implied by Leia’s dialogue earlier in the movie that she can tell Rey is struggling with something.

Alright, so the Luke stuff would be as follows, then:

“Because you’re a Palpatine? The Force alone made us; our light and dark.”

“Final lesson. Rey… some things are stronger than blood. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi…”

“She was quick to learn in our training. But Leia feared the darkness that had lived in our father, and lived on in us. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day it would be picked up again… by someone with the strength to overcome that darkness”

Palpatine would proceed to spew his lies about Rey being “Empress Palpatine” and all that later down the road.
“Long have I waited… I never wanted you dead. I wanted you here, Empress Palpatine. You will take the throne. It is your birthright to rule, here. It is in your blood.” We’d remove “our blood” because they don’t share the same blood. Fortunately, that would be an easy cut because the camera switches perspective only for when he says that (probably because Rey Palpatine wasn’t always their choice).

Perhaps she considers the possibility that Palpatine did have more of a role in her creation than Luke was willing to admit. But ultimately she triumphs, and claims the name of Skywalker.

EDIT: Just throwing the continued Palpy dialogue here to indicate what would need to be cut:

“I haven’t come to lead the Sith. I’ve come to end them.”

“As a Jedi?”

“Yes.”

“No. Your hatred, your anger. You want to kill me. That is what I want. Kill me, and my spirit will pass into you, as all the Sith live in me (we’d reinstate his original line at the beginning since it hints at Rey’s new origins). You will be Empress. We will be one.”

“All you want is for me to hate but I won’t. Not even you.”

“Weak. (Switch camera to after Rey finishes her line about her parents). Your master, Luke Skywalker was saved by his father. The only family you have here… is me.” (Everything after this point would be unaltered Ascendant).

That all sounds good. Although I prefer the wording of “The force alone made us…” or “We’re a creation of the force…”

We should make a list of all the dialogue changes for this version and maybe start generating some of the lines and see how they sound. Not that we should stop brainstorming, there’s potential for so many different variations of this scene that I’d love to see.

Or how about this for Luke’s line: “Because you’re a Palpatine? He cannot claim what belongs to the Force.” But then we miss out on the fact that the Force gave their bloodlines both light and dark. But maybe that’s for the best, making things simple and all. We’d still hear about Leia’s struggle with the dark side later on.

I like that better, too.

EddieDean said:

What if Palpatine created Rey, as he created Vader, but he used Kylo and Snoke in the prior two movies to lead her to the dark (so she’d make a powerful host). They put her under pressure, put the people she cared about under threat, so she’d turn in desperation to the easier, seductive power she has within reach.

Snoke, who is basically Palpatine, was clearly intent on having Kylo kill Rey, one of his last attachments, in TLJ after he finds out she’s attained the spirit of a true Jedi. And then Kylo murders Snoke instead. So I think we’ve sort of reconciled the idea already that he changes directions once he finds out neither of his heirs are particularly psyched about being evil Sith Lords. Both Kylo and Rey are conflicted. It makes sense that he’d have them fight each other so they last one standing is engulfed by the dark side.

Oh, and I think this would be the best line for Luke: "Because you’re a Palpatine? He has no claim to creations of the Force.” But I can go back to the other one if we find it more appealing.

Yes, that is what the final reveal will be with Luke and the message of the movie.

But we have to make the initial reveal shocking and devastating to Rey and the audience. Keep in mind that what Kylo tells Rey comes from Palpatine, who is known to lie and manipulate. So he tells Kylo exactly what he wants to hear: “Your grandfather turned evil because I played a part in his creation, so you’ve gotta be evil, too. No matter what your conscious is telling you.” He’s streching the truth; technically he did play a part in their creation, but only because he is such a massive threat and the Force reacted. Regardless, he knows he’ll also tell Rey that she has this same origin, which will make her more vulnerable to him since he would be her only “true” family since she had shit parents that abandoned her.

But the reality is Palpatine is taking credit for the Force’s own work. He only scared it and influenced it enough into creating Rey and Anakin. It all lines up with his character. Rey can initially think she and the Skywalkers are inherently evil by affiliation. But in the end Rey learns she is not beholden to Palpatine whatsoever and can choose her own legacy. The Skywalkers and Rey were created by the Force alone to be good people that defeat the Sith despite having both light and dark in them. Which we can assume their own darkness is just due to the fact that the Force itself isn’t only the light, its both aspects. But it’s trying to correct an imbalance with the dark (Palpatine) with people that have a tendency to swap from one side to the other.

We get to have our cake and eat it, too.

I really love this most recent version and the simultaneous clarity and ambiguity that it brings, reframing the entire saga but also through layers of unreliable narrators and interpretation. It gives fans stuff to think about and argue over without making any direct contradictions to the official universe’s past or likely future. Well done!

Yeah, I’m cool with that. “He cannot claim what belongs to the Force.” One nice thing about TLJ is it explains the Force (through Ahch-To) in such a way that aligns with the previous concept without necessarily having to state it directly. Whenever you have something with powerful light, it casts a powerful shadow. So, realistically, it probably wasn’t the best move of the Force to create beings so incredibly powerful like Rey and Anakin, because that just means they have to resist that much harder with the dark. That’s Luke’s message: “I’ve seen this raw strength only once before. In Ben Solo. It didn’t scare me enough then. It does now.”

Leia’s modified flashback will allow us to demonstrate this concept quite cleanly, too. Having that much power means you need that much more resolve and strength in your spirit. Which is what sets Rey apart from the likes of the Skywalkers that fell to the dark. “Some things are stronger than blood.”

Now I just need to figure out a way to re-write the flashback voiceover in such a way the conveys my last paragraph.