The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 687

Hmmm. The thing about that scene is technically it could be placed just about anywhere we want before they get the Falcon back. Is there anywhere else between these two time periods that might need a second to stop for a moment, even if it is a somewhat pointless one?

Some places I’m thinking of:

• Immediately after they escape the cave system
• After the crew takes off from Pasaana.

EDIT: Just tested placing after Pasaana, there’s too much tonal whiplash. So the best location would be after they escape the cave and after we see the Knights of Ren. I tested that and it works well as a buffer for the next part of the movie - the KoR are imposing enough to warrant a scene about worrying for the characters. We even have an establishing shot of the landscape in the edit there that would allow for a smooth transition back to Pasaana.

They do reference a raid at the Festival of Ancestors so I’d think it shouldn’t be too removed from that point in the film.

May I have a copy of V4 when you have a moment? Thank you and Happy Holidays (Life Day)! May the force be with you!

V4 is a monumental achievement and I am grateful to have finally seen it… I am already looking forward to V5 [no pressure implied!] next year.

In a longstanding tradition I’ve just started this year I’ve decided to watch each ST films across Christmas Eve, Day, and Boxing Day (due to having seen the other 6 films millions of times since 1999).

Unlike the other two films I have seen TRoS more often and have seen a couple of different versions of Ascendant so I knew what I was going into here. Like with Starlight I did avoid the changes list to try not to notice what was new or not. What follows here is an unstructured wall of thoughts jotted down whilst watching.

I went for the Rey Palpatine version, like it or not, that’s what we’ve got now.
Added lines on Exagol fit seamlessly. The immediate acts of aggression in Rey’s training complete with vision incorporating the Sith eyes from Starlight, the cave from TLJ, and the throne from Ascendent work so well at that point.
After Starlight it’s odd to hear Vader’s theme accompanying his helmet rather than Palpatine’s considering who’s actually speaking to Ren through it.
The music after Rey is fixing the landing gear after escaping the Destroyer is slightly reminiscent of Ren’s theme but I do wonder if either his or Palpatine’s could be woven in here properly as she talks about wanting to kill him.
Leia halting her training because she wanted to be more like her mother is a good balance considering it’s implied Luke had exiled himself out of fear of becoming their father. It carries the unvoiced implication that Leia too was scared of becoming Vader much earlier than Luke was.
I knew where a lot of the generated lines were but they didn’t in anyway stand out.

I did have some issues. One that’s unfixable is the Resistance being back to their TFA strength so soon after TLJ and all the other resets to TFA even down to Rey’s clothes and hair, Abrams really went out of his way to muck up TLJ.
There’s a couple of instances where the subtitles don’t match the words (Poe says the followers ‘have been building something for years’ and the subs say ‘hiding something for years’). Also, considering the ‘never underestimate a droid’ theme and how kind Rey is to D0, it’s really jarring to see how badly everyone treats 3P0, yes he’s never taken seriously in the franchise but Finn and Poe are outright bullying to him.
Also I had to convert the file because it was crashing my Philips TV when playing it off a USB device. It plays other MP4s no issue, it just didn’t like this one.

I’ve not kept up with much of the new voice lines talk for V5 but I did have some thoughts.

Leia having some dialogue prior to sacrificing herself rather than Maz expositing. Something like she senses Ben is turning and needs to reach him once last time or something.

Palps seeding some clones around the galaxy to use as backups. Rather than Rey being referred to ‘grandchild’ explicitly there must be some way of making it more obvious that one or both of her parents were Palpy clones and it’s unexpected they had a child.

And finally have Palpy goading Rey into killing him to fulfil the rule of two as his successor rather than telling her he’s going to posses her. It’s simple for him to prey on her darkness considering what Ren has told him about her toeing the line but I find it fundamentally stupid to tell her he’s going to posses her. It possibly wouldn’t be too difficult to have him play the dying victim like he did with Windu now he’s supposedly found his worthy successor. Obviously his plan remains to possess his clone but he doesn’t tell Rey that.

The last two things absolutely lie outside the scope of this film and Hals style, but adding subtle World Between Worlds lines in space when Rey starts hearing the voices of the Jedi and replacing the out of place Han-llucination with Anakin finally being able to speak to Ben would fit the expanding world post-ST nicely.

Artan42 said:

After Starlight it’s odd to hear Vader’s theme accompanying his helmet rather than Palpatine’s considering who’s actually speaking to Ren through it.

Good idea here.

I did have some issues. One that’s unfixable is the Resistance being back to their TFA strength so soon after TLJ and all the other resets to TFA even down to Rey’s clothes and hair, Abrams really went out of his way to muck up TLJ.

I believe they claimed that the reason they made Rey’s appearance so similar to TFA is for the sake of the reused footage of Leia. But I’m not sure why they couldn’t just use more CGI to make changes possible. As for the Resistance, we are planning on changing Zorri’s dialogue on Kijimi so that it’s clear the people there are rebelling against the First Order ever since Skywalker’s sacrifice. This would help explain why the Resistance is larger than at the end of TLJ.

Palps seeding some clones around the galaxy to use as backups. Rather than Rey being referred to ‘grandchild’ explicitly there must be some way of making it more obvious that one or both of her parents were Palpy clones and it’s unexpected they had a child.

We are currently discussing an idea like this on Nev’s TROS thread. The idea is to maintain Rey’s parents as nobodies because that was the crux of TLJ’s reveal. Rey was only claimed to be a nobody by association in that film. So Rey can be a clone of Palpatine, similar to how Omega is a female clone of Jango Fett, and this way the reveal isn’t retreading ESB and is more pivotal for Rey’s character since she was quite literally created to be a vessel for Palpatine and take the Sith throne. Rey’s parents are nobodies that adopted/rescued her from a Sith cult, similar to how she will be adopted by the Skywalkers at the end of the film. The reason Rey doesn’t see her parents in the mirror cave of TLJ is because she doesn’t have any, biologically speaking - the long line of identical Rey’s is a hint at her nature of being a clone. And the reason Palpatine always wanted her dead is because he was paranoid that one of his clones could take all of his followers or simply have enough power to kill him as Rey eventually does.

And finally have Palpy goading Rey into killing him to fulfil the rule of two as his successor rather than telling her he’s going to posses her. It’s simple for him to prey on her darkness considering what Ren has told him about her toeing the line but I find it fundamentally stupid to tell her he’s going to posses her. It possibly wouldn’t be too difficult to have him play the dying victim like he did with Windu now he’s supposedly found his worthy successor. Obviously his plan remains to possess his clone but he doesn’t tell Rey that.

The above change I mentioned should make it less stupid that he’s telling her his exact plan. Again, if Rey’s sole reason for existence is exactly what he’s describing, it may fill Rey with enough dread and hopelessness to consider actually doing it.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I believe they claimed that the reason they made Rey’s appearance so similar to TFA is for the sake of the reused footage of Leia. But I’m not sure why they couldn’t just use more CGI to make changes possible. As for the Resistance, we are planning on changing Zorri’s dialogue on Kijimi so that it’s clear the people there are rebelling against the First Order ever since Skywalker’s sacrifice. This would help explain why the Resistance is larger than at the end of TLJ.

I did read that but it doesn’t make sense, Any scenes of Rey interacting with Leia are shot with a body double and Leia’s face out of frame. It just looks like more of Abrams regreting skipping the middle film. The Kijimi stuff would make sense, the FO moving into a Resistance cell looks clear.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

We are currently discussing an idea like this on Nev’s TROS thread. The idea is to maintain Rey’s parents as nobodies because that was the crux of TLJ’s reveal. Rey was only claimed to be a nobody by association in that film. So Rey can be a clone of Palpatine, similar to how Omega is a female clone of Jango Fett, and this way the reveal isn’t retreading ESB and is more pivotal for Rey’s character since she was quite literally created to be a vessel for Palpatine and take the Sith throne. Rey’s parents are nobodies that adopted/rescued her from a Sith cult, similar to how she will be adopted by the Skywalkers at the end of the film. The reason Rey doesn’t see her parents in the mirror cave of TLJ is because she doesn’t have any, biologically speaking - the long line of identical Rey’s is a hint at her nature of being a clone. And the reason Palpatine always wanted her dead is because he was paranoid that one of his clones could take all of his followers or simply have enough power to kill him as Rey eventually does.

I like that pattern. Considering how Bad Batch and Mandalorian seem to be moving into the cloning lore, Rey being the clone and not one of her perents is a smart move that won’t isolate this edit from the larger franchise in a way that ‘Rey Nobody’ would.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

The above change I mentioned should make it less stupid that he’s telling her his exact plan. Again, if Rey’s sole reason for existence is exactly what he’s describing, it may fill Rey with enough dread and hopelessness to consider actually doing it.

One thing the ST (and specifically the edits I chose) does is show how necessery the Jedi Order searching for children is. Rey goes for the darker, easier path every time and finding out that being nothing more than a fresh clone plays on everything that’s built up so far so much more than the raw film or this version of this edit.

The best part about the change is we would only have to modify Kylo’s masked lines to Rey and one Palpatine line he says when his mouth isn’t visible: “It is your birthright to rule… here.” It would be changed to “You were engineered to rule… here.”

Here is a draft of the reveal and force-Bond duel:

“Rey….wherever you are…You are hard to find.

“You are hard to get rid of.”

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it…I needed you to see it…who you are. Darkness is in your blood. Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“You were right…your parents were no one. Vulnerable to the allure of a Sith cult.”

“Don’t!”

“Your barren mother… she took a liking to their prize jewel…”

“I don’t want this!”

“…you were adopted from the hoard of the Sith.”

“No!”

“But their actions had awakened a sleeping dragon…”

(Rey sees the vision of her parents and her abandonment.)
“My Love…be brave.”
“You’ll be safe here…I promise.”
“Come back! Nooo!”

“They paid for your protection…in more than one way.”

“Stop talking.”

“Rey…I learned what happened to them.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“Your parents sought sanctuary on Jakku, chasing rumors of a congregation dedicated to Skywalker’s Jedi. But they couldn’t escape the sweeping shadow of the Sith.”

(Rey sees her parents get killed.)

“So that’s where you are.”

“You know why the Emperor’s always wanted you dead. I’ll come tell you.”

…

“Why did the Emperor come for me? Why did he want to kill a child? Tell me.”

“Because his spirit chose another vessel, rendering the others created by his followers as threats to his rule. Rey, you… are his clone.”

“You were created to sit upon the throne of the Sith, a vessel for the Emperor’s conjured spirit. But what he couldn’t foresee was our connection in the Force. We can kill him, Rey, destroy the Sith…and bring a new order to the galaxy.”

(Removes his helmet)

“You know what you need to do. You know.”

“I know.”

Jar Jar Bricks said:

The best part about the change is we would only have to modify Kylo’s masked lines to Rey and one Palpatine line he says when his mouth isn’t visible: “It is your birthright to rule… here.” It would be changed to “You were engineered to rule… here.”
… .

Yes! Yes! Yes! This makes soo much sense.

Makes the idea of Rey being associated with Palpatine more palatable - really hate the original.

Any thoughts on what angle you like the most for Rey Nobody, Hal? We could improve on the existing dark vision version, or go with Rey being a chosen one, or something different. I like the Clone Rey proposal, but Rey Nobody will always be more interesting to me.

I really like this approach, but some of the proposed exposition could be tightened up.

“You were adopted from the hoard of the Sith” > “She stole you from the Sith.”

“Chasing rumors of a congregation dedicated to Skywalker’s Jedi. But they couldn’t escape the sweeping shadow of the Sith.” > ?

“Because his spirit chose another vessel, rendering the others created by his followers as threats to his rule. Rey, you… are his clone.” > “Because his spirit chose another vessel. All the others became threats to his rule. You, Rey, were his clone.”

“Rey….wherever you are…You are hard to find.

“You are hard to get rid of.”

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it…I needed you to see it…who you are. YOU ARE A DARK PERSON AT YOUR CORE. Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“You were right…your parents were no one. SITH CULTS PREY ON DESPERATE/LONELY PEOPLE LIKE THEM.”

“Don’t!”

"YOUR MOTHER WAS INFERTILE AND SAW THAT THERE WAS A PARENTLESS AND IMPORTANT CHILD SHE COULD TAKE AS HER OWN”

“I don’t want this!”

“YOU WERE ADOPTED FROM THE CULT”

“No!”

“BUT STEALING YOU CAUGHT PALPATINE’S ATTENTION”

(Rey sees the vision of her parents and her abandonment.)
“My Love…be brave.”
“You’ll be safe here…I promise.”
“Come back! Nooo!”

“They paid for your protection…in more than one way.”

“Stop talking.”

“Rey…I learned what happened to them.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

"YOUR PARENTS WANTED TO FIND LUKE SKYWALKER FOR PROTECTION AND STARTED BY LOOKING FOR LOR SAN TEKKA IN JAKKU’S DESERTS. PALPATINE’S ASSASSIN CAUGHT UP TO THEM.”

(Rey sees her parents get killed.)

“So that’s where you are.”

“You know why the Emperor’s always wanted you dead. I’ll come tell you.”

…

“Why did the Emperor come for me? Why did he want to kill a child? Tell me.”

"BECAUSE ONCE HE RETURNED HE NO LONGER NEEDED THAT MANY CLONES - THEY WERE A THREAT TO HIS POWER. YOU’RE ONE OF THESE CLONES.”

“THE ONLY REASON FOR YOUR CREATION WAS TO BE A VESSEL FOR PALPATINE’S SPIRIT ON THE SITH THRONE. BUT WE SHARE AN UNBREAKABLE BOND. TOGETHER WE WILL DESTROY PALPATINE AND MAKE SOMETHING NEW OUT OF WHAT IS LEFT OF THE FINAL ORDER.”

(Removes his helmet)

“You know what you need to do. You know.”

“I know.”

vranir said:

I really like this approach, but some of the proposed exposition could be tightened up.

“You were adopted from the hoard of the Sith” > “She stole you from the Sith.”

“Chasing rumors of a congregation dedicated to Skywalker’s Jedi. But they couldn’t escape the sweeping shadow of the Sith.” > ?

I was trying to use metaphorical language, in this case a dragon and his treasure hoard, so that all this exposition isn’t so boring to listen to, kinda like the reason Yoda speaks in riddles. Combined with the visions of her parents, the audience should be able to put the pieces together properly. But there is definitely an argument to be made that it makes things too vague in a moment that is supposed to set the record abundantly straight.

Yup, that’s all for the best. Thanks for doing this.

Just wanted to pop in and say this was a great improvement on a project that was already pretty great to begin with. It definitely smoothed over some of my only gripes with V3 and previous versions, which was some of the awkward editing to bypass cut lines. AI voice cloning tech is a marvelous tool and one that really helps like an easy ADR tool! Specifically great at making Leia feel more like she’s “in the movie” and Poe’s lines explaining Palpatine’s fleet better. Great stuff, I honestly can’t wait to see how this could be tweaked even more!

I like all of that quite a bit. I’d have to double check the scenes to make sure there is enough room for them to be spoken, though.

As for the final line, we can look back at what Nev wrote originally as a baseline:

“You were created to sit upon the throne of the Sith, a vessel for the Emperor’s conjured spirit. But we share an unbreakable bond, stronger than he can imagine. We can kill him, Rey, destroy the Sith…and use his power to forge something new.”

Worth noting that the term “dyad” would be excised in this instance so Rey is at least a little less special. I really love the dyad concept, but it makes less sense without the mirroring of the grandson of Vader and the granddaughter of Palpatine being there. They can still have a strong bond, but it just won’t be named to make this scene less exposition-heavy.

My idea was to replace a Finn line that was removed in v2(?) of Ascendant: “To bring the little girl that he was supposed to bring from Jakku, to the Emperor. To absorb her life-Force.” (Poe then exhales in horror). Both Poe and Finn have already seen Rey transfer life-Force, so this would make sense. This way there isn’t a misunderstanding that he wanted her alive, and we expect Palpatine to drain her immediately upon reaching Exegol, but he tries the possession thing instead first. We might have to cut out Palpatine’s line about “a dyad in the Force, unseen for generations”, but everything else he says is fine since we would be aware of the fact he can use this power regardless of a “dyad”.

I like it. How about “But we share an unbreakable bond, stronger than he can imagine.”