The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 675

CamSMurph said:

Burbin said:

I can’t believe I’m seeing a Finn in this movie that actually feels like he went through TLJ’s character arc.

Neither can I. Still no Duel of the Fates, but we’ll take what we can get. 😃

Unfortunately can never reach the heights of DotF’s imagery for Finn. Maybe not for Ascendent, but I may have a few more tricks up my sleeve for Finn’s story arc…

And regarding the Palpatine hologram line, I think that is why I liked “Only the strongest shall rule”. It says a lot with very little. Plus, I’d rather any new Palpatine lines be vague about Rey’s bloodline so it could be used for both Rey Nobody and Rey Palpatine. Honestly would love to see an edit that actually makes me like Rey Palpatine. How can an edit make that work in a way that isn’t convoluted? Lol.

For the Rey Nobody edit, I thought it would be interesting to have Palpatine still kind of suggest that they could be family, in a literal or figurative sense. Like, he could still call her Empress Palpatine, or something like, “Long have I waited for a family”. And then Rey could just call him a liar. He may be telling the truth, or could just be playing into her desire for belonging. Kind of in a similar way they address if Deckard is a replicant or not in Bladerunner 2049 with ambiguity. That way, a Rey Nobody edit could still kind of work for people who have accepted the Rey Palpatine thing too. But maybe viewers who are aware would just be confused and be like, “Wait I thought this was a Rey Nobody edit??” not realizing it is being framed as manipulation. Plus, someone could still technically view her as Rey Palpatine in a Rey Nobody edit, it is just not addressed in the movie. Probably just better not to mention it at all though.

Hal 9000 said:

The Rey Nobody edit, like all of these fan edits, exists in a parallel universe in which it is the final film that was presented and marketed to the world. (Nevermind that this parallel universe would probably also have its own Hal9000 project.)

In other words, the reader must be assumed to be someone for whom this version simply is the movie, with no other context assumed.

This is a great perspective. My mind is settled then!

To be honest I think the original lines convey all we need to the audience. From the way the movie is structured, we’re not really supposed to know Palpatine’s scheme until Rey confronts him, there’s supposed to be some mistery and tension as she approaches Exegol and goes deeper into the Sith halls. I don’t think we should spell everything out from the get go, the original lines from the Pryde transmision leave things vague but they still comunicate a lot. He tells Pryde Rey will come, but it’s not until she arrives we’re shown they’ve been ordered not to fire, he tells Pryde Leias act was in vain, but it’s not until Rey confronts him we learn he wants Rey to kill him and become heir to the Sith. And the line about Leia already conveys that his plan with Kylo failed.

“The Princess of Alderaan has disrupted my plan, but there is another.”

It’s like poetry, it rhymes.

And as for ambiguous setups, we’ll know he has another plan, but only when Rey arrives will we learn that he meant “another heir.”

You could keep the “Leia in vain” stuff too but it’ll take moving some shots around.

Hal 9000 said:

If we put back Palpatine’s line, “I never wanted you dead, I wanted you here,” it would not be clear that he changed his plans. Originally he really did want her alive all along, even when she was a child. The narrative for Ascendant is that he really was trying to have her killed, since he had already invested years and years into Kylo Ren with that mighty Skywalker blood.

This is the way to do it. Canon is that the Skywalkers have more potential strength than Palpatine, so it does make sense. Of course, that particular line is removed from Hal’s edit of ROTS “[Anakin] will become stronger than either of us.” But I think it still stands fact regardless.

So Kylo is stronger than Rey (he easily beats her on the Death Star wreckage). And Rey would have been born when Ben was around 9 years old. So it makes sense that Palpatine always wanted to kill her. Maybe in this continuity he never meant for his son to escape Exegol.

Yup, at this point, I’d probably just assume they brought Oscar Isaac in for some late stage ADR. Not bad at all.

It’s not bad! Could be played around with a little more.

I’m wondering if it would flow better if we get both pieces of new dialogue, and then have Poe say, “He calls it the Final Order” afterward. I’m not sure if that is more complicated with how the music and maybe Chewie’s growl is baked into the surrounding tracks.

Or we could just redub “He calls it the Final Order.”

Ah yeah I see what you’re saying.

DZ-330 said:

The problem with that logic lies with Rey thinking Palpatine wants her dead and Palpatine wanting Kylo to kill her the whole movie.

In this edit all the Palpatine lines about not wanting her dead are removed. That is why it seems like we need to add something. That change in character for Palpatine wanting her dead to now choosing her as his target is not clear enough in the edit.

I think it’s rather more clear without that line, the big twist that Palps wanted Rey alive all along makes no sense because he seemingly does everything to put Rey in danger/get her killed, yet somehow all those events lead to Rey getting to Exegol and THAT is supposed to have been all according to his plan somehow.

By removing that line Palp’s plan is actually streamlined, everything up to Ben’s redemption is very straightforward, he wanted Kylo to kill Rey and become the new Emperor just as he said in the beginning. Then from his convo with Pryde we know that this plan was “disrupted” but he’s still scheming something, and we know it involves Rey, who we just saw go full dark mode. I think it’s fine if at this point some hypothetical first time viewer still thinks Palpatine wants Rey dead, Rey also thinks Palpatine wants her dead and she’s going to Exegol to fight him, it’s until she arrives that she learns he wants to be killed by her, and we immediately understand he’s now offering her what he had offered Kylo at the beginning.

If you stuck with just adding new dialogue to the hologram scene, you could have Palpatine say something like:

Soon, I will have a stronger vessel.
or
Soon, my spirit will have a more worthy host.

It could be a way to address the question of, “Why would Palpatine tell them something that would make them want to kill him less?” It’s like, Rey probably would’ve killed you before you told her that. Yes, I think he tells her because of his hubris and sees that there is no other way (until there is), but it would alleviate that question if the audience could learn about his plans for spirit transfer while he tells a confidant of his intentions.

Also, everyone would probably know he is talking about Rey here, but it is still vague. He could be referring to a new clone body. But then on Exegol when he says, “That is what I want” it would confirm it is Rey.