The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 659

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

Speaking of the Luke stuff, I think there is a way to get these ideas across without straying very far from what he already says and making feel new dialogue feel out of place.

Luke: Because you’re a Palpatine [cut for Rey Nobody, but honestly you could cut it for both versions and focus on the dark vision if you wanted]

Luke: Leia knew it, too. [or] Leia saw it, too. (for the Rey Nobody version but could work for both)

Luke: Because she saw your spirit, your heart. She knew, because some things are stronger than blood.

(This is just my opinion but I feel like Luke’s following guidance would work better to me more about Rey’s personal journey rather than focusing on her physical one. It can work both ways, but this feels more like personal guidance from a father figure and less like orders from a general)

Luke: Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don’t face it, it will mean the end of the Jedi. And you will be lost.
(I also feel like you could replace “your destiny” with “always” or “a constant struggle” to tie better into the theme of “bringing back the balance” and balance not being permanent, but something that must be maintained)

I think at one point someone pitched Luke saying “Leia saw your dark vision(s) too.” Slightly awkward wording maybe, but straight to the point and would work for Rey Palpatine or Rey Nobody.

Yes, but the problem is that the film gives the impression that she only had 1 dark vision. And by the time she has the one, Leia has already been training her for a year. It’s much more compelling if she’s known for that entire year that she grapples with the dark side but still chose to train her because of her spirit and heart.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

Speaking of the Luke stuff, I think there is a way to get these ideas across without straying very far from what he already says and making feel new dialogue feel out of place.

Luke: Because you’re a Palpatine [cut for Rey Nobody, but honestly you could cut it for both versions and focus on the dark vision if you wanted]

Luke: Leia knew it, too. [or] Leia saw it, too. (for the Rey Nobody version but could work for both)

Luke: Because she saw your spirit, your heart. She knew, because some things are stronger than blood.

(This is just my opinion but I feel like Luke’s following guidance would work better to me more about Rey’s personal journey rather than focusing on her physical one. It can work both ways, but this feels more like personal guidance from a father figure and less like orders from a general)

Luke: Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don’t face it, it will mean the end of the Jedi. And you will be lost.
(I also feel like you could replace “your destiny” with “always” or “a constant struggle” to tie better into the theme of “bringing back the balance” and balance not being permanent, but something that must be maintained)

I think at one point someone pitched Luke saying “Leia saw your dark vision(s) too.” Slightly awkward wording maybe, but straight to the point and would work for Rey Palpatine or Rey Nobody.

Yes, but the problem is that the film gives the impression that she only had 1 dark vision. And by the time she has the one, Leia has already been training her for a year. It’s much more compelling if she’s known for that entire year that she grapples with the dark side but still chose to train her because of her spirit and heart.

Hmm, I guess Rey’s lines to Finn and Luke imply it was one vision. I think you’re right, probably a better phrase for him to say that captures her struggle.

I like your line “Leia understood the weight of the darkness that pressed upon you,” in the abstract, but wonder if it’s a bit too long/wordy. Maybe something “Leia knew of the darkness you struggled with.”

krlozdac said:

I think it works well enough as is without it. I would think that it’s worth it to revisit the idea of having Luke saying “Lesson three” or “Final lesson” during the Ach-To conversation seeing as it’s more plausable now.

+1 to this

DominicCobb said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

Speaking of the Luke stuff, I think there is a way to get these ideas across without straying very far from what he already says and making feel new dialogue feel out of place.

Luke: Because you’re a Palpatine [cut for Rey Nobody, but honestly you could cut it for both versions and focus on the dark vision if you wanted]

Luke: Leia knew it, too. [or] Leia saw it, too. (for the Rey Nobody version but could work for both)

Luke: Because she saw your spirit, your heart. She knew, because some things are stronger than blood.

(This is just my opinion but I feel like Luke’s following guidance would work better to me more about Rey’s personal journey rather than focusing on her physical one. It can work both ways, but this feels more like personal guidance from a father figure and less like orders from a general)

Luke: Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don’t face it, it will mean the end of the Jedi. And you will be lost.
(I also feel like you could replace “your destiny” with “always” or “a constant struggle” to tie better into the theme of “bringing back the balance” and balance not being permanent, but something that must be maintained)

I think at one point someone pitched Luke saying “Leia saw your dark vision(s) too.” Slightly awkward wording maybe, but straight to the point and would work for Rey Palpatine or Rey Nobody.

Yes, but the problem is that the film gives the impression that she only had 1 dark vision. And by the time she has the one, Leia has already been training her for a year. It’s much more compelling if she’s known for that entire year that she grapples with the dark side but still chose to train her because of her spirit and heart.

Hmm, I guess Rey’s lines to Finn and Luke imply it was one vision. I think you’re right, probably a better phrase for him to say that captures her struggle.

I like your line “Leia understood the weight of the darkness that pressed upon you,” in the abstract, but wonder if it’s a bit too long/wordy. Maybe something “Leia knew of the darkness you struggled with.”

You’re right. Simplicity usually wins:
https://youtu.be/54n0B4FN6qE?si=iCjzVn3gT2UTtLH0

EDIT: Link has been corrected. For real this time.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

DominicCobb said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

Speaking of the Luke stuff, I think there is a way to get these ideas across without straying very far from what he already says and making feel new dialogue feel out of place.

Luke: Because you’re a Palpatine [cut for Rey Nobody, but honestly you could cut it for both versions and focus on the dark vision if you wanted]

Luke: Leia knew it, too. [or] Leia saw it, too. (for the Rey Nobody version but could work for both)

Luke: Because she saw your spirit, your heart. She knew, because some things are stronger than blood.

(This is just my opinion but I feel like Luke’s following guidance would work better to me more about Rey’s personal journey rather than focusing on her physical one. It can work both ways, but this feels more like personal guidance from a father figure and less like orders from a general)

Luke: Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don’t face it, it will mean the end of the Jedi. And you will be lost.
(I also feel like you could replace “your destiny” with “always” or “a constant struggle” to tie better into the theme of “bringing back the balance” and balance not being permanent, but something that must be maintained)

I think at one point someone pitched Luke saying “Leia saw your dark vision(s) too.” Slightly awkward wording maybe, but straight to the point and would work for Rey Palpatine or Rey Nobody.

Yes, but the problem is that the film gives the impression that she only had 1 dark vision. And by the time she has the one, Leia has already been training her for a year. It’s much more compelling if she’s known for that entire year that she grapples with the dark side but still chose to train her because of her spirit and heart.

Hmm, I guess Rey’s lines to Finn and Luke imply it was one vision. I think you’re right, probably a better phrase for him to say that captures her struggle.

I like your line “Leia understood the weight of the darkness that pressed upon you,” in the abstract, but wonder if it’s a bit too long/wordy. Maybe something “Leia knew of the darkness you struggled with.”

You’re right. Simplicity usually wins:
https://youtu.be/54n0B4FN6qE?si=iCjzVn3gT2UTtLH0

EDIT: Link has been corrected. For real this time.

Yeaah that’s good.

Hal 9000 said:

To me, interjecting something about Leia for Rey to react to with “wow, she still trained me though” feels weird. Makes it seem very elementary of a problem, like Rey is shocked that Leia was aware that she was having a hard time with self-confidence.

It’s not really “self-confidence” though. It’s that she has a natural inclination toward the dark side of the Force. Which is displayed in TLJ when the dark side cave calls out to her. It is definitely shocking to hear that your mentor knew you had a propensity to fail terribly but they still decided to take you on because they recognized you were strong enough to push through it all.

Chris Terrio describes it like the following: “We were very moved by the idea that Leia would have known that from the very beginning, but since she still saw such hope, heart and spirit in Rey, she decided that she was going to take a chance…”

I’m probably in the minority but I like the theatrical line for the Leia flashback better than it is right now. It implies that Leia is fully a Jedi when she dies, and gives her an actual reason to stop rather than just because. It also mirrors Revenge of the Sith with how Anakin experienced visions of Padme dying, and chose to go to the dark side to prevent it. Here, Leia wants to prevent it at first, but chooses to fully embrace the light at the end, completing her training. And when Ben dies at the end, it fulfills the prophecy, but in a way we didn’t expect. I don’t think it really spoils the ending rather than foreshadows it, and the way in which Ben dies is still a surprise.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Hal 9000 said:

To me, interjecting something about Leia for Rey to react to with “wow, she still trained me though” feels weird. Makes it seem very elementary of a problem, like Rey is shocked that Leia was aware that she was having a hard time with self-confidence.

It’s not really “self-confidence” though. It’s that she has a natural inclination toward the dark side of the Force. Which is displayed in TLJ when the dark side cave calls out to her. It is definitely shocking to hear that your mentor knew you had a propensity to fail terribly but they still decided to take you on because they recognized you were strong enough to push through it all.

Chris Terrio describes it like the following: “We were very moved by the idea that Leia would have known that from the very beginning, but since she still saw such hope, heart and spirit in Rey, she decided that she was going to take a chance…”

Could you cut out “Because you’re a Palpatine”, and have Luke say, “Leia saw it, too” referring to the vision? So, Leia also had a vision of Rey turning to the dark side, but Leia saw her spirit/heart and trained her anyway? Or, keep the Palpatine line, and have Luke say, “Leia saw the vision, too.”

DZ-330 said:

Leia looks concerned in the flashback, that could be seen more as a “Why am I doing this?” look instead of a “I’m concerned about my son.” look.

Not even “why am I doing this?” More like a “I’m really sorry and disappointed I have to tell my brother that this isn’t going to work out.”

RogueLeader said:

And speaking of tests, I messed around with Poe’s lines a little bit more and came up with a different variation. The AI model was struggling with getting Poe to say “dreadnought cannons”, and the deliveries I managed to get still sound awkward to me. So, I did a version where he says, “and each ship has been upgraded with fleet-killing weapons”. Poe calls the dreadnought a “fleet-killer” due to its cannons in TLJ, and uses the phrase planet-killing in this film. That makes it feel more like something Poe would actually say, and that term gives the audience a clear indication of their power-level. These aren’t planet-killing weapons, but they can destroy any planetary fleet that opposes them.

I still think he should refer to the weapons as “cannons” since that’s what they’re called on the later scenes, the first time they’re referenced in this edit is when Rose says “we think hitting the cannons might ignite the main reactors”, It’d be more effective if these “cannons” are metioned earlier.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Luke sounds absolutely AMAZING. Here is a way we can reintegrate Leia having known about Rey’s struggle with the dark side:
https://youtu.be/70vGJBB7YMQ?si=cK7ZOptoAtGYwtbD

I think this Luke A.I will be really helpful for the Nobody cut, but I agree with Hal that it’s better to leave out the whole “Leia knew (something)” dialogue from the Rey Palpatine cut, trying to use it without her straight up knowing Rey was a Palpatine feels very obtuse.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

And here is a line to give Leia some closure with the Jedi that makes sense in canon:
https://youtu.be/QM-xl2GirK8?si=QiRJpNAiBfeDP8-R
I’m of the opinion that Leia needs to have a very specific reason for abandoning her Jedi path in order for it to be satisfying.

I don’t think Leia deciding to go into politics is a satisfying reason for abandoning her Jedi path on the last night of her training. Sensing that she was not meant to be a Jedi might leave things ambiguous, but the Jedi have always been all about feelings and premonitions, and not following in Luke’s footsteps did lead her down a path that served the galaxy in other ways, perhaps that was the will of the Force. Yes it’s ambiguous but I don’t think there can be a better explanation for Leia not being a Jedi in VII & VIII but suddenly being Rey’s master in IX.

If we were to go for the politics explanation route, then I at the very least agree that it being “the last night of her training” needs to be replaced with something else. Make it clear that she didn’t train for that long with him.

But your description in general has brought back the following potential replacement in my mind: “Leia sensed that she could best serve the galaxy in other ways.” It’s more vague while still being more of an actual explanation than the whole “I sensed it was the end so I stopped.”

DZ-330 said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

If we were to go for the politics explanation route, then I at the very least agree that it being “the last night of her training” needs to be replaced with something else. Make it clear that she didn’t train for that long with him.

This is why I had suggested this instead:

Luke: “I started to train her, but Leia was reluctant to follow the Jedi Path. She knew she could better serve the galaxy and its people through diplomacy, like our mother once did. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day, it would be picked up again by someone who would finish her journey. A thousand generations live in you now. We’ll always be with you, but this is your fight.”

Yeah I like that. Leaving Ben out of it might be for the best, because it’s kind of weird for her whether it’s his death or birth she’s sensing.

If that could be pulled off with the AI then that would be great, I like mentioning Padme as another way to tie the trilogies together.

Would it be possible to snip the “and its people” part? I’m mostly thinking about constraints in terms of available space for the new lines.

DZ-330 said:

PsyGemini said:

How about: “…bring about greater change through diplomacy, like our mother once did, than the jedi path”?

I love the idea of Luke referring to their mother. Padme gets no love in the sequels! 😦

Luke: “I started to train her, but Leia was reluctant to follow the Jedi Path. She knew she could better serve the galaxy and its people through diplomacy, like our mother once did. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day, it would be picked up again by someone who would finish her journey. A thousand generations live in you now. We’ll always be with you, but this is your fight.”

How about “She FELT she could better serve the galaxy…”

Since v4 is on the table, do we know what ever happened to that mockup of Rey blasting a short burst of lightning at Finn on the Death Star wreckage? I feel like that’s the missing piece in her arc to give up everything and head to Ahch-To. She realizes that just being by her friends in general will always put them in danger.

If that was never finished, if a like-minded person with a little bit of VFX skills could fix that up it would be awesome!

Yeah that would probably fit quite a bit better given time constraints.

Honestly, it makes much more sense for canon to be that Leia didn’t train beyond building a lightsaber and some dueling techniques. I doubt she trained any longer than a year. For that to be the last night of her training is kinda crazy.