The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 370

Vladius said:

Peter Pan said:

Honestly, the battle droids and general evilness alone should be enough to connect the Separatists and the Trade Federation. Both organizations are hilariously generic in the sense that we learn practically nothing about their precise motivations. All that is given in the movies is that the Trade Federation doesn’t want to pay taxes because they are greedy, and the Separatists? Well, they are characterized by their dislike for the Republic and the Jedi. Based on the abundance of big companies present at Dooku’s meeting, we can infer that they share the same bland motivation as the Trade Federation, money.

So, I think the distinction between the two can be put in the crawl of ROTS, without losing anything.

Actually, the bigger question is why Dooku is on their team. His supposed motivation to leave the Jedi and the Republic is the corruption of the senate, but the first thing he does after leaving is founding the League of the Uber-corrupt, super-capitalist of the galaxy. It just doesn’t make any sense. I mean, what greater good could justify this absurd action against his actual beliefs?

Yeah, visually it’s a no brainer. All the battle droids, droidekas, and neimodians are there from the start of ROTS. I just mean if I’m putting the episode 2 stuff at the end of TPM. When Palpatine says that he’s making an army to counter the increasing threats of the Separatists, it should be established that the Trade Federation is one of the groups of Separatists he’s talking about. They’re part of a trend. If anything I think it would make sense to put it in the crawl of TPM that the Federation is a Separatist group, and then reference it at least once or twice somewhere else.

For Dooku I won’t get into any detail. He’s just Sidious’s apprentice next in line after Maul. It’s a shame to leave out all the subtlety but as you said it’s not well put together anyway. His identity is tied too much to the AotC bonkers mystery plot and I’m trying to cut out 98% of that movie.

Part of a trend is a good way to put it, could be further explained in a crawl, replacing taxation of trade routes is in dispute (which bores everyone out of their skulls) to be more focused on these brand new battle droids the federation are mass producing for the first time (like the dark trooper in Dark Forces).

That is what appears to be happening anyway but it could be lifted from a background detail to opening crawl emphasis as the guiding sinister plot, then it’s super clear that Naboo is an experiment like how Alderaan was a test run for the Death Star, a power grab to seize control by ambush and sort of mob rule the galaxy, planet at a time, overwhelming through numbers. Greed motivates weapon trade and planets mean resources so it’s a vicious greed power cycle. Really show how the Clones became a neccessary evil because the Republic had their hand forced from the opposition printing droids by the thousands every day from an unknown source, supplying to any Separatist buyers who want out of the government rule of the Jedi and the Republic.

I do think that would be easy to translate because it all tracks with the movies, the crawl can help frame it better by being extremely direct and simplified, then it’s more like ANH which spends most of the first act or more repeating what the opening crawl already said was happening.

Inspired by Vladius’ ideas I spend my time sitting on the train pondering about Dooku’s motivations and his role in the story. Logically, I came up with an idea that is practically impossible to pull off in editing, but I still wanted to share it.

The idea was to turn Dooku into the Anti-Vader and mimic the Luke/Vader dynamic with Qui-Gon and Dooku, but the opposite outcome.

Dooku enters the narrative of TPM after Qui-Gon encounters Anakin. Prompted by this meeting, Qui-Gon contacts his former master in search of guidance. Here we learn that Dooku left the order to fight the rising corruption in the Republic and that he is disillusioned with the Jedi due to their complacency to challenge the injustice taking place in the Senate. However, we are not told that he turned to the Dark Side. The scene ends with Dooku strengthening Qui-Gon’s resolve to train the boy.

After the flight from Tatooine and the encounter with Maul, Qui-Gon connects the dots and realizes that it was Dooku who gave away their location and that he is in league with the Trade Federation and the Sith.
Dooku explains that he has realized that something new can only flourish in the decease of the old and intends to force the Republic to fail. Qui-Gon objects to this approach for the casualties it will cause and tries to talk Dooku out of it. However, mistaking his friend for the mind driving the plot behind the Trade Federation, Qui-Gon decides against informing the council because he fears the escalation their involvement might cause. Against Dooku’s warning, Qui-Gon accompanies the Queen to Naboo to serve the people.

After Qui-Gon’s death, Dooku confronts Sidious, blaming Qui-Gon’s death on Sidious ploy. The Sith Lord, however, convinces Dooku that his former apprentice’s death was caused by the Jedi’s ineptitude in supporting the Queen’s quest with a suitable force, as well as their dogmatic obedience to their code. He lies, that Obi-Wan pressed to capture Gunray after the destruction of his own apprentice and that he left Qui-Gon to die. Blinded by his loss and the prospect of their scheme to uproot the Republic, Dooku falls to the Dark Side, now not just condemning the Jedi for their lack of action in preventing the corruption of the Republic, but blaming them directly for the decay of the Republic.

With this change, Anakin grows up seeing the effects of Qui-Gon’s sacrifice on Dooku, and when Luke confronts him on the Death Star, he understands what follows, if Palpatine wins and realizes the mistake he made in joining with him.

Just stick with a prequel duologie and complement the hexalogy with a combination of TFA and TLJ.

I’ve been thinking about Attack of the Clones a bit lately. Spence’s recent tightening was really good, but every time I watch or think about this movie I always find the early car chase sequence really off-putting. After the droids in the factory, I find that scene the most egregious.

So why not remove it altogether? Since we already have an attempt on Padmè’s life with her ship being bombed, that gives us enough of a reason for Anakin to be assigned her protector, and I’m sure there’s a way to use voicework to tie the bombing to Obi-Wan’s hunt for Kamino.

I feel like that trimming could really improve the pace, and combined with the usual tightening, the addition of the Anakin/Kenobi training scene early, and the addition of the usual deleted scenes with Padmè’s family, you’d end up with something more focused and interesting.

I could do without the animal fight in the arena but I think that’d be my ideal structure.

I don’t think it’s a good idea. The car chase sequence is one of the few scenes where we can see Obi-Wan and Anakin acting like friends, it is a scene where we can see them teasing each other in a friendly way, instead of always having a rocky relationship. Unlike many people on the forum, I generally don’t have a problem with them having a rocky relationship, but removing one of the scenes where they act friendly towards each other is not a good idea. After all, you need a reminder that they are still friends, even though they have a rocky relationship sometimes. So, I personally don’t like the idea. Removing that scene could improve the pacing, but would not improve Anakin and Obi-Wan’s friendship. And the training dual from Kenobi is not enough to show their friendship, in my opinion.

I have seen something like that in a serialized edit of the prequels, that directly cut from the scene in Palpatine’s office to Anakin pursuing Zam on foot.

EddieDean said:

I’ve been thinking about Attack of the Clones a bit lately. Spence’s recent tightening was really good, but every time I watch or think about this movie I always find the early car chase sequence really off-putting. After the droids in the factory, I find that scene the most egregious.

So why not remove it altogether? Since we already have an attempt on Padmè’s life with her ship being bombed, that gives us enough of a reason for Anakin to be assigned her protector, and I’m sure there’s a way to use voicework to tie the bombing to Obi-Wan’s hunt for Kamino.

I feel like that trimming could really improve the pace, and combined with the usual tightening, the addition of the Anakin/Kenobi training scene early, and the addition of the usual deleted scenes with Padmè’s family, you’d end up with something more focused and interesting.

I could do without the animal fight in the arena but I think that’d be my ideal structure.

The inefficiency of the storytelling is one good reason to remove. A question is whether sufficient impetus for Padme to leave is still there without the second attempt.

I agree with your assessment the scene as it exists is too much. Yet as others say, it has the merit of showing positive character interactions I wish were more prominent.

My idea is to start the film with the chase. From crawl (explaining that the Jedi are in pursuit of an assassin targeting senators who oppose the creation of an army), pan to shot of Coruscant, cut to point where Obi and Anakin are both in the speeder on through to where they lose Zam and she removes her veil.

Then Padme’s ship comes down through the clouds, no explosion, it’s morning after the chase and we go to the two heroes in the elevator (just another day in the life of a Jedi).

Snooker made a brilliant scene edit where Anakin deflects blaster shots from the assassin droid and then Anakin jumps out of the window. My crazy notion inspired by that is while Obi and Anakin are chatting in Padme’s apartment at night, Zam’s speeder slows past the window behind them. Sensing danger they run to the bedroom and Anakin deflects blaster shots (implicitly from Zam) and jumps out…onto the speeder, thus picking up that part of the chase on through to Zam’s death.

Mrebo said:

EddieDean said:

I’ve been thinking about Attack of the Clones a bit lately. Spence’s recent tightening was really good, but every time I watch or think about this movie I always find the early car chase sequence really off-putting. After the droids in the factory, I find that scene the most egregious.

So why not remove it altogether? Since we already have an attempt on Padmè’s life with her ship being bombed, that gives us enough of a reason for Anakin to be assigned her protector, and I’m sure there’s a way to use voicework to tie the bombing to Obi-Wan’s hunt for Kamino.

I feel like that trimming could really improve the pace, and combined with the usual tightening, the addition of the Anakin/Kenobi training scene early, and the addition of the usual deleted scenes with Padmè’s family, you’d end up with something more focused and interesting.

I could do without the animal fight in the arena but I think that’d be my ideal structure.

The inefficiency of the storytelling is one good reason to remove. A question is whether sufficient impetus for Padme to leave is still there without the second attempt.

I agree with your assessment the scene as it exists is too much. Yet as others say, it has the merit of showing positive character interactions I wish were more prominent.

My idea is to start the film with the chase. From crawl (explaining that the Jedi are in pursuit of an assassin targeting senators who oppose the creation of an army), pan to shot of Coruscant, cut to point where Obi and Anakin are both in the speeder on through to where they lose Zam and she removes her veil.

Then Padme’s ship comes down through the clouds, no explosion, it’s morning after the chase and we go to the two heroes in the elevator (just another day in the life of a Jedi).

Snooker made a brilliant scene edit where Anakin deflects blaster shots from the assassin droid and then Anakin jumps out of the window. My crazy notion inspired by that is while Obi and Anakin are chatting in Padme’s apartment at night, Zam’s speeder slows past the window behind them. Sensing danger they run to the bedroom and Anakin deflects blaster shots (implicitly from Zam) and jumps out…onto the speeder, thus picking up that part of the chase on through to Zam’s death.

I’ve had the same thought, that Anakin should jump out of the window onto Zam’s speeder. It really illustrates their characters to have Anakin be headstrong while Obi-wan takes his time to find a speeder, and it also provides a fun reveal when we see Obi-wan catch Anakin’s lightsaber from out of nowhere, showing that Obi-wan really has Anakin’s back even in his boneheaded moments.

NeverarGreat said:

Mrebo said:

EddieDean said:

I’ve been thinking about Attack of the Clones a bit lately. Spence’s recent tightening was really good, but every time I watch or think about this movie I always find the early car chase sequence really off-putting. After the droids in the factory, I find that scene the most egregious.

So why not remove it altogether? Since we already have an attempt on Padmè’s life with her ship being bombed, that gives us enough of a reason for Anakin to be assigned her protector, and I’m sure there’s a way to use voicework to tie the bombing to Obi-Wan’s hunt for Kamino.

I feel like that trimming could really improve the pace, and combined with the usual tightening, the addition of the Anakin/Kenobi training scene early, and the addition of the usual deleted scenes with Padmè’s family, you’d end up with something more focused and interesting.

I could do without the animal fight in the arena but I think that’d be my ideal structure.

The inefficiency of the storytelling is one good reason to remove. A question is whether sufficient impetus for Padme to leave is still there without the second attempt.

I agree with your assessment the scene as it exists is too much. Yet as others say, it has the merit of showing positive character interactions I wish were more prominent.

My idea is to start the film with the chase. From crawl (explaining that the Jedi are in pursuit of an assassin targeting senators who oppose the creation of an army), pan to shot of Coruscant, cut to point where Obi and Anakin are both in the speeder on through to where they lose Zam and she removes her veil.

Then Padme’s ship comes down through the clouds, no explosion, it’s morning after the chase and we go to the two heroes in the elevator (just another day in the life of a Jedi).

Snooker made a brilliant scene edit where Anakin deflects blaster shots from the assassin droid and then Anakin jumps out of the window. My crazy notion inspired by that is while Obi and Anakin are chatting in Padme’s apartment at night, Zam’s speeder slows past the window behind them. Sensing danger they run to the bedroom and Anakin deflects blaster shots (implicitly from Zam) and jumps out…onto the speeder, thus picking up that part of the chase on through to Zam’s death.

I’ve had the same thought, that Anakin should jump out of the window onto Zam’s speeder. It really illustrates their characters to have Anakin be headstrong while Obi-wan takes his time to find a speeder, and it also provides a fun reveal when we see Obi-wan catch Anakin’s lightsaber from out of nowhere, showing that Obi-wan really has Anakin’s back even in his boneheaded moments.

Yes! Feels like a real and deliberate moment showing the characterization. Biggest challenge to my eye is the effect of Zam shooting into the room, breaking the blinds and how to deal with changing the room lighting.

Eh, it’s the one that slows the movie down for me 🤷

Create an edit of the Yoda-Anakin scene in ROTS to make it so Yoda is a hologram, so that those who rearrange the movie so the political subplot comes before the nightmare can still have that scene.

Also, I’m doing this for my Vader edition of ROTS, I thought I’d share here.

I’m implementing the idea of Anakin turning because he craves immortality without having him have a vision of dying on Mustafar. That doesn’t really do much other then make Darth Vader into a self-preserving victim, the opposite of my intent.

Instead, I’d accomplish this by moving the opera scene before he has a nightmare (my version is also gonna have the political subplot moved before the nightmare). The dialogue would be edited and new voice lines would be done so that instead of “saving people from dying” it’s referred to as “cheating death”. This shows that Anakin is intrigued by the prospect even before he knows of Padme’s impending doom. The nightmare about Padme is moved forward all the way after Obi-Wan leaves Utapau (which thematically makes sense: for all Anakin knows, Grievous could kill Obi-Wan; now he’s faced with the prospect of losing another loved one).

It’d also be modified that Palpatine doesn’t even know about Anakin’s nightmare. Padme is never mentioned in any of his scenes with Palpatine. Though new dialogue with a Palpatine voice actor (I was gonna resort to AI, but I’ve just been offered help by someone who knows Palpatine voice actors), Palps offer isn’t to save Padme, but that they’ll figure out the secret to immortality together and Anakin will be second in-command of the Empire.

It makes far more sense for Anakin to believe Palpatine here. Instead of framing it as, “Palpatine is offering Anakin the power to save Padme”, it’s “Palpatine is offering Anakin to become his apprentice so they can learn to cheat death together and basically be immortal Force gods that rule the galaxy forever”. Anakin knows that the Sith’s ultimate goal is immortality, and that the dark side is the only potential path to it, as the light side is all about respecting the natural course of life. Palpatine craves that power as much as he does, and Anakin also has reason to believe Palpatine would actually make this offer to him, even for purely selfish reasons. Palpatine wants an all-powerful immortal being to enforce his Empire. Originally, Anakin would have no reason to believe Palpatine would actually have any investment in saving Padme and isn’t just lying. The Sith, a group of selfish egomaniacs would not have a power dedicated to saving others. Anakin figures if he can figure out the power to cheat death for himself, he can do it for Padme too, but the idea here is that Palpatine doesn’t pitch that. He’s not gonna pretend he, a selfish Sith lord, cares about Padme. Anakin should see through that lie, he’s encountered several Sith, and Palpatine should know he would see through that lie.

It also makes it so Palpatine has a solid plan, instead of just getting lucky that Anakin happened to have a nightmare about Padme, he simply preys upon a desire that Anakin has had since he was a powerless slave.

If we’re comparing to Michael Corleone’s arc in The Godfather, the nightmare functions less like the assassination attempt on Vito and more like Apollonia’s death. The final straw rather then the spark.

Darth Raditz said:

Been looking over Nev & Pan’s questions and ideas for the clone plot in AotC. Wouldn’t the simpler solution be to go with the idea that the clones were originally created for the Separatists, and that the Jedi basically claimed them for their own? Have one of the alien Separatists dialogue say “when will you finalize the Kaminoan deal?” And Dooku will respond with “I am a man of my word.” Then, after Palpatine is given emergency powers, change Yoda’s line to "Visit I will the cloners on Kamino…and barter for their army. If I’m missing any steps, let me know.

I think you would need to make it more explicit. How would you handle Obi Wan’s discussions with the Kaminoans?

Darth Raditz said:

Been looking over Nev & Pan’s questions and ideas for the clone plot in AotC. Wouldn’t the simpler solution be to go with the idea that the clones were originally created for the Separatists, and that the Jedi basically claimed them for their own? Have one of the alien Separatists dialogue say “when will you finalize the Kaminoan deal?” And Dooku will respond with “I am a man of my word.” Then, after Palpatine is given emergency powers, change Yoda’s line to "Visit I will the cloners on Kamino…and barter for their army. If I’m missing any steps, let me know.

That is my preferred alternate version of events. The council seems much less stupid in this scenario, it still cast a mighty shadow on the Jedi for betraying their ideals like that, and it even adds to Dexter‘s line which characterises the Kaminoans as greedy entrepreneurs devoid of any moral commitment.

However, one point that would still need some work to really sell the change, would be Obi-Wan‘s visit on Kamino. The Kaminoans cannot be already working for the republic. Maybe the best way to keep most of the dialogue as is, would be to add a line from Yoda or Windu that explains that Sifo-Dyas was travelling with Dooku before he vanished. And while we‘re at it, maybe change Jango‘s dialogue to: „… a Jedi called Tyrannus…“. This gives Obi enough information to piece together what happened.

I also like your idea to reutilize Dooku‘s line in this context, I hadn’t thought of that. The only real connection point that I had in mind was the scene in Palpatine’s office. (Just make the alien senator say something, heck, maybe he could imply that the Kaminoans approached the republic after Obi-Wan‘s visit to make them look extra slimy)