The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 35

JediMasterFisher said:

That youtube reviewer knows nothing about the story of Star Wars. He says the Jedi were bad because they did not lead an army to free the slaves. Doesnt he realize that would start a war with the Hutt clans and that wouldnt be good. 

How could he?
Apart from seeing Jabba in the first 1/3 of RotJ (oh, and that bullsh*t scene in the SW Special Edition), the Hutts play absolutely NO purpose to the story of the six SW films, so why would the reviewer (or for that matter, the majority of the audiences who saw these movies) have any knowledge of that "Hutt war" concept???

JasonN said:

JediMasterFisher said:

That youtube reviewer knows nothing about the story of Star Wars. He says the Jedi were bad because they did not lead an army to free the slaves. Doesnt he realize that would start a war with the Hutt clans and that wouldnt be good.

How could he?
Apart from seeing Jabba in the first 1/3 of RotJ (oh, and that bullsh*t scene in the SW Special Edition), the Hutts play absolutely NO purpose to the story of the six SW films, so why would the reviewer (or for that matter, the majority of the audiences who saw these movies) have any knowledge of that "Hutt war" concept???

George could have solved all this by just having Qui-Gon say something along the lines of "The Jedi are forbidden to interfere outside the Republic", when Anakin asked if he was there to free the slaves.

JasonN said:

JediMasterFisher said:

That youtube reviewer knows nothing about the story of Star Wars. He says the Jedi were bad because they did not lead an army to free the slaves. Doesnt he realize that would start a war with the Hutt clans and that wouldnt be good. 

How could he?
Apart from seeing Jabba in the first 1/3 of RotJ (oh, and that bullsh*t scene in the SW Special Edition), the Hutts play absolutely NO purpose to the story of the six SW films, so why would the reviewer (or for that matter, the majority of the audiences who saw these movies) have any knowledge of that "Hutt war" concept???

 I think that is what most people are missing about his reviews.  The movies should make sense to the average audience member.  Most of the people who are up in arms are so up their eyeballs in Star Wars that they can't see straight. 

A person shouldn't have to earn a PhD in Star Wars History and Lore to have the movies be understandable.  If the person who is slightly familiar with a movie series goes in to see the latest installment shouldn't have to be scratching his head the whole time.

A problem or plot-hole doesn't disappear because it is patched up outside of the movie.  If I take a picture of the pothole in my driveway and photoshop out the hole on my computer, the hole is still out in the driveway.

The opening crawl is a great way of addressing some of the problems with TPM.

It's the first crawl in the saga so it should set up in very broad strokes the bear essentials for understanding the film.

If it had a paragraph explaining that after a thousand generations the Republic is crumbling under it's own weight, that the Jedi after defeating their rivals the Sith a thousand years before are bound by a code limiting their authority within Republic borders and another setting up the Federation's claim to the planet the audience would have almost everything upfront without the need for expositional dialogue.

The current crawl contains some of those details but it's crouched in terms that are rather dull and taxation is a something most people go to the cinema to forget about.

Magnoliafan's slave plot adds menace but if the Naboo and the Federation are part of the Republic it doesn't make sense that the Jedi wouldn't stop it.

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Now the whole Naboo/Federation thing...I haven't watched TPM in a while but if we simply removed the Federation from the actual Senate meeting....could that work? I'm still a bit confused by the whole political side of things...

I don't think that would work, because if the TF weren't at the Senate meeting and did not (essentially) force the Chancellor to merely appointing an "assessment committee" to check Nabbo out rather than just stop the TF's invasion, Queen Amidala would have no reason for giving a vote of No Confidence and forcing the Chancellor out of office.

BarBar Jinkx said:

I've been thinking about the confession scene in the garage in AotC

 

would it be possible to paint Padme out & have anikin confess the killings to a holographic Palpatine, & have Padme come in as Palps leave for the "I miss her so much" part

 

 

is this doable at all?

its been so long since I have watched this movie I just cant remember Anikins posture in the scene.

It's doable (though not easy) but possibly a little pointless and counter productive.

We find out in ROTS that Anakin told Palpatine and Anakin is meant to be keeping a low profile, hiding Padme from Nute Gunray and his agents so getting the Chancellor on the Batphone to have a heart to heart, even on the worst of bad days sounds like replacing one problem with another, rather than working as an active solution.

It might work though, all (like it's really easy and not time consuming at all) you'd have to do would be to take or fake footage of Palpatine looking concerned and paste it over the scene with Padme gone in the holograph style.

If George can have Terence Stamp deliver his lines to Amidala via a mop handle and drop her in later (so she can have the day off) in Episode One doing the opposite should be possible.

I've been thinking about how the opening crawl could fix a lot of problems with the PT. It's already been addressed, but the history of the Jedi and Sith could be explained along with the decline of the Republic.

Also, an idea I think I already put forward is to have the separatist group retitled "the Galactic Federation" and for it to be a coalition of warlords seeking to dominate the republic. The reason why it'd be "the federation" instead of the separatists would be that it allows them to be present from TPM onward. They're the threat from day one, not some ridiculously dull trade group.

I've also been thinking about how much could be done with the use of subtitles. Any audience member unfamiliar with Star Wars would be confused as to what the hell the Jedi are, and what they hell the force is.
One way I thought of introducing the Jedi would be to have the subtitled federation aliens discuss them as they board the ship and also make them more threatening characters.

The following is an example of what could be done. What I want to re-assert is the religious nature of the Jedi, and also their legendary status. Make it seem as if people already doubt their existence, even, to make the skeptical tones people talk of them in in ANH seem more reasonable:


(ship approaches blockade)

Qui-Gon: Captain, tell them we wish to board at once.

Captain: With all due respect, the ambassadors for the supreme chancellor wish to board immediately.

Nute Gunray: Of course. The Galactic Federation welcomes all negotiations with the Old Republic*, and we would be glad to welcome the ambassadors.

*Basically the idea here is that the phrase "old republic" had emerged long before the Empire was ever formed, used as a derogatory phrase by Federation members for the Galactic Republic the insinuation being that their time was already over. This explains why the true glory days of the Republic seem like a distant memory even in the evidently short space of time between TPM and ANH, because we actually aren't seeing those glory days at all in TPM. The Republic is already considered old and over, and what was at first an insulting phrase later became one used with nostalgia by galactic republicans in the new Empire as Obi-Wan does in ANH.

(Later, after Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon talk)

Nute Gunray: What? Speak up, droid!

TC-14: The ambassadors for the Galactic Republic appear to be Jedi Knights.

Rune Haako: Jedi Knights? Religious fanatics! We cannot trust their kind!

Nute Gunray: Indeed. I will contact the master, you may deal with the Jedi however you like.

Rune Haako: However I like? That's unusually harsh of you ... (to TC-14) prepare the battle droids.

(Later, to Palpatine)

Rune Haako: The ambassadors are Jedi, lord. But their ancient superstitions will surely be no match for our-

Palpatine: Viceroy, I don't want this slime in my sight again. This turn of events is unfortunate. We must accelerate our plans. Begin landing your troops.

Nute Gunray: And what of the Jedi, lord?

Palpatine: Kill them immediately.

Nute Gunray: With pleasure, my lord.

(Nute Gunray, as a hologram)

Nute: The toxins should flush them out. Prepare for battle.*

*The original line "they must be dead by now, destroy what's left of them" but sending battle droids to eliminate the remains of Jedi is...pointless.

(Later, as Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon fight and Gunray discusses the situation with another Neimodian)

Neimodian: You misunderstand the Jedi, viceroy.

Nute: Why? Because I don't believe the legends? Seal off the bridge!

Neimodian: The legends are true, sir!

Nute: And more droids! For your own sake, do not fail me!

Neimodian: Surrender is still and option...

(As Qui-Gon penetrates the blast door)

Neimodian: You see? The force is with them!

Nute: It can't be! It's a myth!

Neimodian: You've doomed us all...

(Watching from the screen in the control room, after Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are forced to flee the scene)

Neimodian: Now do you believe the legends, sir?

-Conveniently, Nute nods to what the neimodian is saying at this point, I think.


That's just some ideas off the top of my head. I know some of it seems probably a little forced, but it's at least introductory and not just ramblings about droids and "this is impossible" and "oh no" and such.


On a completely unrelated note, can I suggest that the strange bubble-view screen of theirs be changed into the kind of screen used by Vader in ESB? It'd be a nicer tie between both series and be less gratuitous than the Windows Movie Maker style bubble-vision device.

I like the bubble vision monitor myself, it's a direct lift from the old Flash Gordon serials (including the noise)

one episode of which was called The Phantom Menace.

Nero Fett sounds like a painkiller to me, actually I quite like Django Fett (it might even be possible to add a "D'" sound to the few mentions of his name).

I quite like the bright colours of the Naboo ships it sets them apart from the world of the OT and ties in with things like Von Richthofen's red Fokker.

No offense but I completely despise TheoOdo's idea. The point of the prequels is to show the glory day's of the old republic and how they came to an end. There needs to be a huge but gradual shift in attitude and style from TPM to ANH. To have the Jedi and the Republic  already laughable Day 1 does not show that.

Monroville said:

Bingowings said:

Nero Fett sounds like a painkiller to me, actually I quite like Django Fett (it might even be possible to add a "D'" sound to the few mentions of his name).

I quite like the bright colours of the Naboo ships it sets them apart from the world of the OT and ties in with things like Von Richthofen's red Fokker.

So you'd rather him named after a banjo or change rolling in your pocket than a roman emperor?  <:)

 

You bet'ya, especially a Roman Emperor associated with incest, campness and insanity (sadly Aurelius Fett sounds more like a Michael Moorcock character than a bounty hunter).

Octorox said:

No offense but I completely despise TheoOdo's idea. The point of the prequels is to show the glory day's of the old republic and how they came to an end. There needs to be a huge but gradual shift in attitude and style from TPM to ANH. To have the Jedi and the Republic  already laughable Day 1 does not show that.

In an ideal world we would have seen some of those glory days but that's impossible without reshooting the films from scratch.

Whatever way you cut it the Republic and the Jedi are already on their way out at the beginning of Episode One (possibly after centuries of behind the scenes manipulation by the Sith or just by the sheer weight of the conflicting interests it had to keep in balance).

Sidious exploits a very exploitable situation.

It may be that there never really was a golden age and that it's as mythical as Camelot.

A thousand generations is a long time to build up monumental nostalgia compared against even Galactic peace and democracy could be made to seem dull and disposable.

Like Joni sang, "You don't know what you've got till it's gone".

Monroville said:

Octorox said:

No offense but I completely despise TheoOdo's idea. The point of the prequels is to show the glory day's of the old republic and how they came to an end. There needs to be a huge but gradual shift in attitude and style from TPM to ANH. To have the Jedi and the Republic  already laughable Day 1 does not show that.

The problem is that these films take place 18 years at best before ANH.  I mean we are talking The Fall of the Roman Empire here, with the Republic on it's last legs.  There is nothing to say that you cannot show some of that glory (as either the Jedi or Senate/Nobility enjoy themselves with feasts and the like), but the overall heyday has been gone for 100s of years at this point.

- again, we can blame Lucas for this: there was nothing stopping him from making a set of movies that spanned 100 years and lead to Anakin's character through say his father and grandfather - think of something along the lines of THE GODFATHER at least when it comes to showing the generational side of things and how what Marlin Brando's character did (when played by Robert DeNiro) that affected his family by the time he was old.  Alas, this is simply Anakin's story.

Also, it is the Federation that is implying they are a joke, not that they actually ARE a joke.  As in: the Federation is akin to a competing Empire/Republic and much as we fought a cold war with the Soviets, the fighting is going to go the whole range of shootouts to insults, subtle or blunt.

 

Well it's a movie. Time can easily be compressed or stretched in a movie. It's the symbolism and emotion that matters,not whether it takes place over 20 years or 200 years. Anyway, thing change a lot more quickly today than they did hundreds of years ago. Who's to say that with Star Wars's technology, attitudes and cultures change even more quickly? I'm not a freak for continuity or real world "sense" as long as things make emotional and symbolic sense. Star Wars is fantasy, it doesn't have to be 100% logical.

Monroville said:

Actually, it would be the other way around.  If you edit out the Federation reps (no trade, just Federation), the reasoning for giving General Zod a "no confidence" vote would come down to him not wanting to start a war with a competing republic that has been expanding, whereas they have tempered their warrior ways and have been managing the Republic for eons and have become rather weak in the process.

What "other Republic"? Who the hell is "General Zod"? (what, Chancellor Valorum? When was he ever made a General in the PT?)

I was refering to SSWR's post of removing the TF from the Senate meeting without any rewritting to the plot or settings (unless you're refering to TheoOdo's post of rewriting the TF into a separate GR, which was posted later and not what I was talking about).