The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 17

could someone like vad try and get rid of the pink tint seen in the phantom menace it's annoying here is an example of my amature manip

Darth Piccolo said:

could someone like vad try and get rid of the pink tint seen in the phantom menace it's annoying here is an example of my amature manip

I don't think that's a pink tint, it looks more like an attempt to match the pinkish marble of Reggia di Caserta (where the throne room scenes were filmed in TPM and AOTC) which might produce an ambient bleed. The battle droids were a weird hue in TPM too (something that a number of people on here want to change) using that as a guide I adjusted the general hue and it came out looking like this (a bit too yellow for my taste):

Yeah, I think all the space shots in the PT should get an OT makeover, except I like the asteroid field in AOTC. But all this extra stuff they added into the prequels is quite unnessisary. Just eye candy.

DuTwan, you bring up some good points, don't worry about coming across as negative.

Personally, why I don't like Dooku saying Obi-Wan should join him and help him destroy the Sith, is because it is a pretty big statement, that is never followed up on. Why does he say that? Does he really want to destroy the Sith? Or simply want Obi-Wan to join his cause? It seems like such a random line.

The prequels, and especially AOTC do this a lot: what the prophecy is actually about isn't mentioned untill ROTS and the mystery of who ordered the clones is never solved. Also, Dooku states that the Trade Federation was betrayed by Sidious, and came to him for help, but in ROTS, they are seen talking to Sidious. In my opinion, all these little things are just illogical, contradictory, and confusing.

Bingowings, that picture of Dooku on the Jedi council looks really good! Great job man. I couldn't think of a way to do it, but this looks like something we could actually pull off. We need to give him other hands though, I think Plo Koon would like his back :P

I choose to insert Dooku in TPM's final moments because it's subtle, and because, to me, it works two ways: Mace's line and the pan hint at Palpatine being the master, and when Dooku shows up, it both creates some ambiguity

Subtility here is not far from confusion.

I think a "Palpatine or Dooku being the Sith Lord?" sub plot could work but, if so, I'd like it to be more obvious. I always found Dooku's character very poor on screen. Having a sub plot where the audience could wonder who, between Palpatine and him, is the Sith Lord could even add some interest in the political aspect of TPM. In other words I'd like to emphasis, in parallel, the dark side of both Palpatine and Dooku in TPM. (only that Dooku's is not yet a Sith, just a Jedi who don't like the council. He will turn to the dark side after the death of his only Jedi friend, Qui Gon.)

I think the audience needs to know even more obviously that the "phantom menace" is really hiding inside the Republic. The audience needs to know something the good guys don't. That's Hitchcock definition of suspens. Only here the audience also have a question in mind: Palpatine or Dooku?

EDIT: So showing Dooku having emotion at Qui Gon's funeral would be a way to tell the audience: Dooku is not a real bad guy (yet). So it has to be Palpatine.

Personally, why I don't like Dooku saying Obi-Wan should join him and help him destroy the Sith, is because it is a pretty big statement, that is never followed up on. Why does he say that? Does he really want to destroy the Sith? Or simply want Obi-Wan to join his cause? It seems like such a random line.

Kind of agreed. As much as I would like him to be the first leader of the rebels against Sidious, I know it would be hard to make an edit that follows that plot because of the small amount of footages we have.

Plus having him really turning to the dark side after the death of his apprentice (Qui Gon) is still quite an interesting character development IMO.

SilverKey said:

Bingowings, that picture of Dooku on the Jedi council looks really good! Great job man. I couldn't think of a way to do it, but this looks like something we could actually pull off. We need to give him other hands though, I think Plo Koon would like his back :P

 

In my defence it was 5am and I was wanting me bed...and aliens ate my homework...Your Honour.

vaderios said:

Star wars has always black space. This making the difference from the other movies that enhance the space with nebulas and other stuff.But w8 why a nebula in a star wars shot? Lets say this shot got an OT makeover.

-Angel

I think the Tantive IV should have the same livery as in ANH but clean and fresh (not beat up and scratched) so, your mission (should you chose to accept it) is give us a ROTS Tantive in ANH clothing.

While we are on the subject of Blockade Runners a possible radical idea could be a flash forward sequence at the end of ROTS showing the Tantive IV getting the plans from Skyhook and R2 fixing the ship (just like in the Radio Version) which would lead right into Episode IV (the building of the Death Star could be shown time lapse style with some desolves showing the change of ships as the thing gets built leading upto this scene).

thinking to those deleted scenes of AOTC, and combining them with the idea of dooku on the council. how about having some of his 'The Republic is Broken' discussion somehow put in there? he could debate with an alien jedi whom could be animated, voiced and subtitled.

I cant remember where/who suggested this, but if in TPM, we have the trade federation symbolising a younger version of the CIS, it would maybe help the flow between ep I and II.

i know this sounds utterly stupid, but one of my friends suggested TPM would have been better without anakin. i think he meant that the character wasnt that strong. but what IF ani wasnt even in it? what if he just appears in II onwards? i have no idea how and what it would entail, but perhaps the smarter forum members can ponder such an idea.

 ben_danger said:

 

but what IF ani wasnt even in it? what if he just appears in II onwards? i have no idea how and what it would entail, but perhaps the smarter forum members can ponder such an idea.

"Qui Gon - I need parts for a 327 Nubian

Watto - Ah yes, ah yes. Nubian. We have lots of that. Soooo, let me take- a thee out back. Ni you'll find what you need."

That's it! The Queen's ship can now leave tatooine without Anakin! Okay, it's not that smart of an idea, but it works! Ah!

Of course you'll then need to remove all Anakin's following shots (and some Darth Maul on Tattoine references) .......

The movie would not reach the 2h10 lenght Star Wars canon though.

InfoDroid said:

ben_danger said:

i know this sounds utterly stupid, but one of my friends suggested TPM would have been better without anakin. i think he meant that the character wasnt that strong. but what IF ani wasnt even in it? what if he just appears in II onwards? i have no idea how and what it would entail, but perhaps the smarter forum members can ponder such an idea.

 

 That's an idea that's so outrageous, that it just might work.  Since the saga is generally considered "Anakin's story" by most, I don't think anyone (including me) has ever seriously considered cutting his story out of TPM.  Visualizing it though, it's a definite possibility.  I think it would work better in a "prologue" type arrangement though than in a standalone episode, but yeah, definitely something interesting to try.

--ID

Less Jake Lloyd is always a good idea and how much more less can you get but none? None less.

But if you did that what would you have left?

It is Episode One, unless you want to go for a totally new PT (see Animated thread) and Anakin is now the main focus of the saga and there really isn't much material in TPM to shift the focus elsewhere.

There are plenty of examples of how little near orphan Annie can be made more tolerable so deleting him when there is almost as equally bad material elsewhere in there to be repaired too does seem more harsh than radical.

Episode One is a different animal to all the films that follow it.

In an ideal world it would be "The Hobbit" to the rest of the films "Lord Of The Rings".

The story really needs to be restructured in the same way that Jedi does to make it start and end with a bang and introduce the main characters in a lightish/fun way with moments of darkness which hint at the shadow that is to fall in the rest of the episodes.

That's why I suggested starting the film with the invasion of Naboo while Amidala is on Coruscant, that way she has to fight to get back (like the heroes have to go through trials to get to Yavin and save it in ANH) and have her ship attacked on the way so she has to land on Tatooine.

Some of the dullness of TPM comes from the going back and forth between Naboo, Tatooine and Coruscant with Naboo throne room scenes and Council and Senate meetings bogging it all down.

If the heroes went from Coruscant to Tatooine to Naboo, the linear flow of the story would give it better pacing as an introduction to the Star Wars universe.

InfoDroid said:

the saga is generally considered "Anakin's story" by most

i agree the total ani cut is a bit severe, but could the focus be shifted onto padme?

what if the PT is about padme reacting to anakin, and the OT is about luke reacting to vader?

ben_danger said:

InfoDroid said:

the saga is generally considered "Anakin's story" by most

 

i agree the total ani cut is a bit severe, but could the focus be shifted onto padme?

 

what if the PT is about padme reacting to anakin, and the OT is about luke reacting to vader?

Once again there isn't much more that can be squeezed out of Padme in TPM that doesn't involve putting in more Anakin and Natty is almost as bad and at times is just as bad as Jake and Hayden in these films.

A well paced plot can lift even the most leaden of performances so my instincts tell me it is better to concentrate on shifting the order of events around to tell a less meandering story.

Amidala's aim is to free her people so that should be a straight line and not a spirograph drawing.

Bingowings said:

If the heroes went from Coruscant to Tatooine to Naboo, the linear flow of the story would give it better pacing as an introduction to the Star Wars universe.

How true.

InfoDroid said:

The focus should be on Obi-Wan, everything could be through his perspective.  If you eliminate the "finding Anakin" story, then Obi-Wan is there for every major plot point.

I think there has already been an attempt to do a Obi-Wan focused edit of the whole prequel trilogy (or did I just dream it?).

That's fine as a short film project but pointless as Star Wars Episode One.

Besides in TPM there is no 'finding Anakin' story as such, he kind of gets picked up by the others going (the wrong way) to Coruscant.

Perhaps there should be a 'finding Anakin' subplot, another possibility is that the Jedi know that the Chosen One is out there somewhere. Qui-Gon has a premonition that assisting in the Naboo crisis is the key to finding this child and unlocking the meaning of the prophercy, which is clearly important to them and for the greater good (they just don't know how much damage has to be done before the galaxy receives the boon that the child represents). "I Have encountered a vergence in the Force", becomes "I sense a vergence in the Force".

Qui-Gon hasn't met Anakin yet but he foresees he will so the council send Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to investigate the invasion and hopefully bring the Chosen One back with him.

Such a plot alteration would place Anakin further up the map of the story and foreshadow the rather wobbly way the Jedi deal with him in later life.

i was thinking of the obi perspective.

the good thing about the padme is only in I-III, and luke is only in IV-VI. but as bingowings rightly pointed out earlier, its not as if things can be editted around her really.

as obi dies in IV, he does affectively pass the torch.

could i you PM me your new address ID?:) i never sent you those things!

what if the opening of ep I was qui gon visiting tatooine to claim anakin for jedi training. it could have a ghostly opening of a figure walking across a desert horizon, with the heat distorting the image. upon entering the homestead where ani would be, there could be alsorts of floating objects displaying his untrained power. Maybe then obi wan could be just a colleague perhaps?

The edit of TPM I'm working on removes Ani completely.  I've shifted the focus to Qui-Gon since he's in almost every scene.  I've tried to show that he's a bit of a rogue.    He gambles and flirts with Shmi (who is Watto's shop help) and get's her to help the gang out.  He breaks Jedi codes because the Jedi have become too passive.  Hopefully this will add to Luke's own restlessness in the OT.  Also cutting Ani's parts don't really subtract that much from the running time.

InfoDroid said:

Bingowings said:

Perhaps there should be a 'finding Anakin' subplot, another possibility is that the Jedi know that the Chosen One is out there somewhere. Qui-Gon has a premonition that assisting in the Naboo crisis is the key to finding this child and unlocking the meaning of the prophercy, which is clearly important to them and for the greater good (they just don't know how much damage has to be done before the galaxy receives the boon that the child represents). "I Have encountered a vergence in the Force", becomes "I sense a vergence in the Force".

Qui-Gon hasn't met Anakin yet but he foresees he will so the council send Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to investigate the invasion and hopefully bring the Chosen One back with him.

Such a plot alteration would place Anakin further up the map of the story and foreshadow the rather wobbly way the Jedi deal with him in later life.

 

I've thought about going in that direction too.  Sidious sends Maul to Tatooine to look for this "vergence" he senses in the Force, instead of the Queen.  Meanwhile, the Council sends Qui-Gon.  It's a race between the Jedi and the Sith to find Anakin first.

 

I think Sidious is more cunning than that.

He started the Naboo crisis as a ploy to get Anakin (who is all sweetness now) into the Jedi fold and to weaken the Chancellor so he can replace him.

He is just using poor Maul as a Sith calling card.

Bumping off Qui-Gon defending a corrupt Republic turns Dooku, splitting and weakening the Republic and Anakin gets rid of Dooku and strikes the final blow against an already weakened Jedi Order and dying Republic.

He doesn't want Anakin yet, he wants the Jedi to train him so that he can learn to hate them.

InfoDroid said:

Bingowings said:

I think Sidious is more cunning than that.

He started the Naboo crisis as a ploy to get Anakin (who is all sweetness now) into the Jedi fold and to weaken the Chancellor so he can replace him.

He is just using poor Maul as a Sith calling card.

Bumping off Qui-Gon defending a corrupt Republic turns Dooku, splitting and weakening the Republic and Anakin gets rid of Dooku and strikes the final blow against an already weakened Jedi Order and dying Republic.

He doesn't want Anakin yet, he wants the Jedi to train him so that he can learn to hate them.

As it stands in the movies in their current form, that's true, Bingowings.  But how much more of a dynamic could you add by making Anakin the McGuffin of the story?

In ANH it was the Death Star plans.  In ESB it was Luke.  In the prequels, we don't really have one, unless you count "Syfo-Dyas" which never really went anywhere.

These movies need an Ark of the Covenant... Something for them to chase.

 

The object to chase down is the the Trade Federation Invasion (that's the Death Star of Episode One) everything else is dancing in the background, just as who the Emperor and Vader and Luke's father is and how could the Rebels ultimately win danced in the background of ANH.

Episode Two should be a character building exercise with the plot becoming more complex and the dancing moving further to the front (and that too needs major restructuring to come close to fulfilling that goal).

Episode Three is closer to what it should be (the apparent triumph of evil) but it too needs a lot of work on it.

It makes sense that Anakin should be the ultimate focus of all six films (just as Luke is the main focus of OT in isolation) but for Episode One to work it needs to get our heroes from point A to Point C via Point B.

At the moment it's point C to point B to Point A and back to Point C.

The first episode needs a more simple structure to draw people into the more complex weave to follow.

Little details like having The Chosen One Prophecy and Dooku touched upon add the same flavour as having Jabba and the Emperor hinted at in ANH, something that leads into the next episodes without destracting from the coherence of Episode One as a seperate unit but they shouldn't be at the centre when there already is target that is barely being hit.

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

vaderios said:

Star wars has always black space. This making the difference from the other movies that enhance the space with nebulas and other stuff.But w8 why a nebula in a star wars shot? Lets say this shot got an OT makeover.

-Angel

 

 Again, Vaderios, this is great! I think Adywan should definantly go down this road when he gets to the PT:R. I also hope Adywan will mimick the style of shots seen in the OT (more pan/tilt/zoom/static shots). Not all space shots HAVE to have the camera doing "fancy" movements...hmm...it's also the movement of the ships. Sometimes the ships in the PT are moving so fast (or maybe it's because they're CGI) and crazy they look and seem weightless.

Vaderios, just for fun...can you tackle a few other shots from the PT? Naboo space battle...Jango/Obi space chase...ROTS opening battle...?

Umm...they are weightless. lol